Official 999 Swap Feedback Thread...

[KingBrianI]

TexLaw's Argentine Gold

Aroma: Dry pilsner malt aroma dominates. Slightly spicy hop nose. Juicy citrus notes tending towards tangerine-grapefruit.

Appearance: Poured with a big head that pillowed up over the edge of the glass. Slightly hazy (probably due from the shake-up during shipping and me sampling it the day after it arrived, hey I'm impatient!) pale straw color. Cascade of bubbles coming up from the bottom of the glass. Very attractive. Head retention was good, but not spectacular, dissipating to a thin film on the beer over the course of the sampling.

Flavor: That crisp pilsner malt character really comes through in the flavor. It's accompanied by a firm, slightly overpowering bitterness from the hops. There is a tartness present that really goes well with the citrus aroma. Reading the recipe, I'm guessing that it is the rye that is giving it a bit of spiciness although I can't be sure, having very little experience with rye. Finishes dry with a lingering hop bitterness.

Mouthfeel: Medium-bodied with good carbonation.

Overall: A crisp and refreshing beer that would be perfect for those hot summer days. I'd have preferred either a bit less bitterness or a bit more maltiness in order to balance the beer, but that's only to suit my palate. If I were to brew it, I'd probably mash a couple degrees higher in order to retain a bit more sweetness to balance the bitterness. I'm interested to know whether the hops in this batch are the Argentinian Cascades or the American Hallertau since I see on the recipe page you have used both. I've read the Argentinian Cascades can have a bit of a citronella flavor/aroma and I didn't detect that so I'm guessing this batch was hallertau. The bitterness does remind me of the bitterness I received from challenger hops in a challenger smash I did, in that the bitterness is very like the bitterness of asparagus, though this beer doesn't taste of asparagus while my challenger batch did! Thanks for including it!

 

[Beerrific]

CBBaron's RyeIPA

Aroma: Rye is definitely there, slightly muted. Some other malt character, some caramel aromas. Combines nicely with citrusy, resiny, somewhat piney hops that are quite obvious.

Appearance: Medium copper in color. Nice, tight, white head when poured. Good retention. Nice lacing. Somewhat hazy, clears up somewhat as it warms.

Flavor: Hop and malt/rye flavor balance nicely, maybe slightly favoring hops which is nice. Best way to describe hops is 'juicy,' but not really overwhelmingly citrusy, quite nice. Some fruity flavors, go nicely with the malt and hops. All these flavors follow with a fairly assertive bitterness that reminds that this is indeed an IPA. Bitterness lingers but is not harsh.

Mouthfeel: Great body, many times you see IPAs with this color and body (assuming caramel malt usage) and they end up way to sweet. This beer has great body but still finishes very dry which is absolutely necessary for an IPA, IMO. Medium-high carbonation.

Over all impression: A really great IPA. I have had quite a few rye based pale ales and IPAs. I can detect the rye in this, but if I was not told there was rye in here, I might not know. In general, I think the rye was used well in combination with the hops to make a very good, highly drinkable IPA. If I had ordered this in a brewpub, I would order a second for sure.

You mind sharing the recipe?

Thanks!

 

[CBBaron]

CBBaron's RyeIPA
...
You mind sharing the recipe?

Thanks!

Thanks for feedback.

I added this recipe to database so it shows in my recipe pull down now.

Craig

 

[CBBaron]

More beers sampled from the generous contributions of swap members.

niquejim
Sweet stout
dark brown/Black in color, opaque, minimal brown head, low carbonation but perfect for style.
Strong flavors of roasted grains. drying almost astringent.
Minimal hop flavors.
Full body.
Overall I notice some astringent flavors from the roasted grains that dry the mouth. I'm not noticing much sweetness, though it is full bodied.

English IPA
Light amber color, clear with a nice head that dispates leaving a nice lace.
Moderate earthy hops and a firm bitterness.
Medium-light body. Well balanced.
This tastes more like a pale ale to me, but I may have been drinking too many hop bombs.
Overall a very good english ale that is well balanced with noticeable hops but not over powering.

MNBugeater
Wild cranberry apfelwein
Dry, tart, sparkling
Tastes of apple. Cranberry flavor is unnoticed.
I didn't notice any flaws but I am still not a fan of Apfelwein.

Craig

 

[ShortSnoutBrewing]

KingBrianI's Verfluchte Gute Hefeweizen:

Nice pffft upon popping the top off this one.

Aroma - First thing to jump out at me is the bubblegum. I was hit with it as I was pouring. But it's not overpowering. Well balanced. Maybe a little spice in the nose as well. What I would expect for the style

Apperance - More like an amber than a weizen. Cloudy for sure with the yeast swirled in. Little to no head and what was there disappeared quickly. No lacing.

Flavor - Here's where the spicy/clove beats out the bubble gum. Not getting much banana, but there is a little that lingers after swallowing. Sweet, but with a dry finish. Ultimately I think it's pretty balanced. You start with one flavor and go through the gamut of flavors you would expect from a weizen.

Mouthfeel - Medium bodied with some creamy fullness. Maybe slightly under carbonated.

Overall - This was a nice beer and one that went well with a beautiful Portland evening. I wish I had more.

 

[ShortSnoutBrewing]

Bashe's Porter:

Aroma - Malty, yeasty, maybe a little toffee like aromas coming off this. No real hop aroma. Maybe a little fruity (?)

Apperance - Deep, dark, rich brown. Little head that dissipates quickly. Little lacing.

Flavor - Definite toffee, caramel, malty flavors will balanced with a little hop bitterness. A tad sweet.

Mouthfeel - low to moderate carbonation, medium bodied.

Overall - A very nice beer. Maybe I needed to let it sit a little longer if it's bottle conditioned, but this was a fun beer. Greatly enjoyed.

 

[CBBaron]

Saccharomyces Black Ale
Nice deep mahogany color. Huge head, slightly over carbonated.
Aromas of dark fruits and roasted malts.
Nice bold ale. very malty. Dark fruits and malts.
I am really enjoying this ale. Great flavors.

Craig

 

[Amiaji]

Brambling Cross Special Bitter by KingBrianI

Aroma: Malt and caramel notes, some fruitiness.

Appearance: Nice tan head that dissipated to 1/4". Beautiful color, very clear.

Flavor: Some maltiness, fruity but not overpowering.

Mouthfeel: Medium body and good carbonation.

Overall Impression: Very nice beer. Good flavor. There is a flavor there I cant quite identify, maybe the hops? Overall a great beer. Only thing I would change is maybe increase the bittering hops just a bit, but that is just my personal preference.

 

[TerapinChef]

Here's my first review. My tastebuds have been out of wack since a bad sinus infection and a failed attempt to quit smoking lead to a slight increase, so I apologize I haven't got my reviews out sooner. I make kind of a ritual about it, so it takes a lot to get me motivated to do it. Con, here's your pale ale.

Category : 10A American Pale Ale
(I wasn't sure American or British Style, so I went with the good ol USA)

Aroma
Caramel, some earthy notes, touch of biscuit/bread, clean

Appearance
White head, low retention (could have been SWMBO washing my beer glasses again, but I rinsed good with cold water first...) Slight haze, possibly dry hopped? Nice rich, deep color.

Flavor
Caramel on first impression, slight plum flavor evident on front of pallette and finish. Seemed sweet, high FG? Hop flavor restrained, but present with an earthy overtone made me wonder variety? Fuggle?

Mouthfeel
Medium body, no astringency presend. Mild to low warming sensation, mild carbonation (would have personally liked a touch more)

Overall Impression
Smooth drinker, right up my alley. A touch of acidity could be the hops playing tricks on me. Body seemed a bit heavy for style but who cares about that. I would drink these all day!

 

[TerapinChef]

See above notes for disclaimer. Also, I found out tonight I can only really evaluate two beers in a night effectively, although I think this oatmeal stout might be a bit stronger than the taste lets on.

Aroma
Clean, lightly roasty, touch of burnt sugar
Appearance
Deep brown head, quickly dissapating. Short but dense foam.
Flavor
Light dryness, nutty oat presence, touch of creamy coffee flavor. No hop bitterness detected, but a touch of diacetyl in there somewhere. Almost had a lagered characteristic to it that makes me want to know what yeast was used, for my own personal gains. (insert evil laugh)

Mouthfeel

Medium to medium-full body, great creaminess. Slighty "oilyness" that coats the mouth I'm attributing to the oats, although I don't have a lot of tasting experience in this category. Carbonation was low, appropriate for stout style, and a definate warmth was felt in the cheeks! Astringency was low.
Overall Impression
Dark but lightly flavored, I felt it could use a bit more roasty/astringent character to it. Oatmeal flavor is right on! Hint of Cafe au Lait in the finish, a good drinker but a bit too mild for my tastes.

 

[conpewter]

Amiaji 888 RIS

Apperance:
Very dark as it should be, amber highlights when held up to the light, little head, some retention, very appealing.

Aroma: Subdued aroma for a RIS, roasted notes coming through. More aromatic as it warms up.

Flavor: Wonderful, Roastyness, maltiness. Some good bitterness at the end.

Mouthfeel: Full body, carbonation is right on for the style. Some alcohol warmth which is good. Seems well attenuated, not syrupy.

Overall: Great beer, well aged as well. Thank you so much for sharing!

 

[ShortSnoutBrewing]

KingBrianI's Brambling Cross Special Bitter:
Aroma: Nice malty, caramel with a hint of fruit (currant from the hops maybe)

Apperance: Brown/Amber in color. Only a small head when I poured that quickly went away and never returned.

Flavor: Malty, yeasty, I'm almost getting a little smokey in there...maybe roast. Fruitiness of the hop choice comes out on the back of the tongue, but well balanced. Could use a little more bittering as was mentioned above.

Mouthfeel: Medium bodied. A little light on the carbonation. I believe this was filled from a keg.

Overall Impression: Great beer, and I love the use of a single hop, but maybe a little more on your 60min addition. But I like the malt/current combination a lot. This would be a great fall, early winter beer, or better yet up the alc % up and you have a nice winter warmer!

 

[conpewter]

TerapinChef

Thanks for your review! I went back to check the recipes to see if I could clarify some of your observations. The Pale Ale was cloudy because I was experimenting with water additions. I have really hard water so it is hard fo me to make a good pale ale or pilsner. I believe I added too much phosphoric and stripped almost all the calcium out of the water, this resulted in some cloudyness that didn't clear even when the beer was 4 months old. Also probably was the slight acidity you tasted. I really didn't add a lot, but apparently a little goes a long way. This keg is gone now, so far is is my best pale ale, but I think I can get better with other water additions. I've learned that phosphoric is not a good acid to use since you modify your mineral content with it. Hops are cascades all teh way. No dry hopping on this one. Fermented with notty. I don't know where any plum would come from, the biscuit/nutty is due to the 2 lb of vienna, also 1 lb of crystal 15 in there. OG = 1.052 FG = 1.010 so no attenuation issues, may be the relatively high amount of specialty malts that give you a sense it is not fully attenuated.

Oatmeal stout - this one is young for my oatmeal stouts, I like to age them 3-4 months before serving. Once conditioned this is the beer I start non-drinkers on, I've gotten a lot converts on this. It has a high FG at 1.026 and an OG of 1.062. BeerTools.com Recipe Library - Chocolate Breakfast Stout

 

[wildwest450]

Hey Terrapin Chef, it would be nice to be able to review some of your beers, oh wait, I haven't received them yet.

 

[conpewter]

KingBrianI

British Special Dark

Aroma is nice, hard to pinpoint anything though, some fruitiness perhaps
Appearance is very clear ruby
Taste - very drinkable, bitter finish. Some fruit esters perhaps? Except for the color this almost seems to be a mild
Light in body, not thick on the tongue or anything.
Overall Good beer to just sit down and drink a good amount of, not overpowering.

My tastes might be slightly muddled today, but overall a good beer. I may have detected some astringency at first, but not as I continued to drink.

 

[Stratotankard]

Nealf's Stone Dragon IPA 38/50

Aroma 9/12
Strong hop aroma, notes of orange/tangerine. No malt aromas noted

Appearance 2/3
Golden color is cloudy (dry hopped?). Pours with a creamy white hea that settles quickly, to a fine thin ring. Leaves a nice lacing on the glass

Flavour 16/20
Strongly bitter, but pleasantly so. Very grapefruity tasting. Malt is mostly covered by the hoops but is present.

Mouthfeel 4/5
Good medium mouthfeel is smooth but no chewy. A little lightly carbonated.

Overall 7/10
Bitterness lasts quite a while, but is not sharp. Lots of grapefruit is bordering on overwhelming. Cloudiness is more than I'd like to see, but could be from dry hopping. A good IPA.

Terje

 

[Stratotankard]

MMB's Kolsch 41/50

Aroma 10/12
Very little aroma, slight malt behind a bit of fruitiness (maybe pear?), no hop aroma noted.

Appearance 3/3
Crystal clear, golden with a very small head that did not persist. This is the clearest homebrew I've had to date. Great job!

Flavour 16/20
Lightly sweet up front with a definite pear flavour that comes through. Low bitterness that nicely balances the sweetness. Very little hop flavour. Perhaps a bit of graininess in the finish.

Mouthfeel 4/5
Light body with a nice crispness. Might be a little under carbonated to style.

Overall 8/10
A nice easy drinking beer. Light fruitiness is welcome. I've never had a kolsch before and I can say it's a style I could enjoy getting to know. The style guide says it should be medium to medium high carbonation, and this might be bordering on a bit low, but as I said I've never had one before to compare to.

Terje

 

[Stratotankard]

Nealf's Porter 38/50

Aroma 10/12
Nice chocolaty, roastiness. No hop aroma noted

Apearance 3/3
Dark brown, slight reddish tones when held to the light. Compact tan head settles after a few minutes, but persists throughout.

Flavour 14/20
Fairly strong roast flavour with chocolate notes peeking through. Very little hop flavour at all but a nice bitter finish

Mouthfeel 4/5
Medium bodied but with a slightly sticky/thick feeling on the tongue (Not a bad thing). Low to medium carbonation.

Overall 7/10
A nice drinking beer. A little too strong on the roast character, more stout-like. Otherwise a good example.

Terje

 

[KingBrianI]

Warrior's Pils

Aroma- Grainy pils malt aroma dominates. Floral hops notes. A slight fruity ripe-apple and strawberry scent. An faint aroma was tickling my memory and vexing me greatly until I finally pinpointed it. My great-grandmother's creamed corn. It's evident but faint and apparently from a small amount of DMS (to style).

Appearance- Pale Straw color. Fairly clear upon first pour. Slightly cloudy from yeast sediment on subsequent pours. Good head retention. Really pillowed up over the glass on the pour, and stuck around for a good time afterwards.

Flavor- Well-balanced malt sweetness and hop bitterness. Finishes smooth with a short lived bitterness on the tongue. I'm really enjoying the balance. Neither the malt nor the hops take over. I'm getting a very slight cider flavor in the middle of the tongue and a dry almost dusty (but not in a bad way) sensation in the finish. I'm also detecting very faint chlorophenols (at least I think that's what it is, it's what I taste in some of my beers that I attribute to it) that are most evident in burps after a sip.

Mouthfeel- Medium-bodied. Carbonation upon pour seemed very high and the abundance of bubbles rising from the bottom of the glass had me prepared for a crisper mouthfeel. The carbonation felt much lower on the tongue than expected.

Overall- Very nice pilsner. The carbonation was higher than I expected so I ended up pouring a glass of foam on my first attempt. The beer literally exploded into bubbles as it touched the glass. The beer was nearly clear at that point. Foolishly, I assumed it was bottled from a keg (which a quick glance at the bottom of the bottle would have disproved) so I went about pouring in several rounds, thinking there was no yeast cake to upset. Well, I had gotten most of the bottle in the glass when I noticed the yeast cake, at which point some had already poured into the glass and clouded the beer slightly. I really appreciated the balance of this beer. The malt and hops played together nicely with neither getting the upper hand at any point. The creamed corn character, once I realized what it was, was enjoyable, and became more and more pronounced as the beer warmed. I wouldn't have minded a bit more hops in the nose but otherwise it was a nice beer.

Below are some pics of the progression of the beer into the glass, the rising bubbles, and a sunny Carolina afternoon.

 

[Beerrific]

Back to tasting these guys...

CBBaron's Maple Bown

Aroma: malt, some caramel, some slight chocolate/light roast notes, alcohol is evident

Appearance: Nice dark amber/brown in color. Very clear.

Flavor: flavor initially follows the aroma: nice malt character, caramel and/or roast to give a nice, slight nutty, toasty flavor to the beer. The beer finishes very dry with significant warming alcohol. I don't really pick-up too much that I can identify as really maple.

Overall impression: A very well made brown ale. I read your comments above, I would agree about mashing higher. I think you could possible even add some more crystal, would add body and add to the perceived maple flavors.

 

[KingBrianI]

Warrior's Canadian Helles

Aroma- The first thing to hit the nose is a moderately strong spicy hop aroma. It is quickly followed by a sweet pilsner malt character. Like your pils, I detect the DMS here too, though it is less creamed corn and more corn feed (reminds me of my grandfather's grain bins at the farm). Maybe a touc of lychee.

Appearance- Poured a nearly clear rich gold. Thick pillowy head that dissipates to a 2 mm coating. A constant stream of bubbles rise up through the glass.

Flavor- Upon hitting the tongue, the first thing you notice is the pilsner malt sweetness. A light bitterness is present but at a low enough level to allow the malt to dominate. Very little hop flavor. The bitterness does seem just a bit "dirty" or not quite smooth, like the hops used to bitter were a high cohumulone variety.

Mouthfeel- Moderately-high carbonation. Body is moderate.

Overall- I really enjoyed this one. It's malt forward profile and crisp bitterness makes it very easy to drink. The corn flavor (DMS) is to style, but I can't help to feel like it distracts a bit from the beer. How long was this one boiled? I'd be interested in tasting a version that was boiled another 30 minutes.

 

[KingBrianI]

Warrior's German Helles

Aroma- Sweet malt aroma stands alone here. No hop spiciness, very very little DMS. Actually, I'm noticing that as the beer warms, the corn flavor is coming out, though at low levels.

Appearance- Poured a slightly darker gold than the canadaian malt helles. Not nearly as clear and has lots of floaties floating around. Each gives off its own little bubble stream. Big rocky head dissipated almost immediately to just a thin layer on top of the beer.

Flavor- Sweet malt aroma is defintely less prevalent here than in the canadian malt version. Bitterness is about at the same level as the canadian, but seems a bit smoother. The high carbonation gives the beer a bit of a metallic taste. It is also a bit drier than the canadian malt version (or maybe the higher carbonation is making it seem that way). The corn, though much reduced over the candian malt version, is still present in the taste, but at much lower levels.

Mouthfeel- High carbonation. Began overflowing from the bottle when the cap was removed. Very crisp mouthfeel with low body.

Overall- Great beer. I actually preferred this one over the canadian malt version, though it had less aroma, flavor and character. It was a drier, crisper, smoother beer. Even easier than the candian malt version to drink. I'd be all over this one at the beach or the pool or after coming inside on a hot day. It wasn't as pretty as the candian malt version (cloudy, bits of "stuff" floating around, no head) but I still enjoyed it more. It's interesting the hop character is different between the two. Thanks for the chance to compare the two!

PS. For those who are confused at this point, Warrior sent two versions of the same helles recipe, one brewed with canadian malt, and one brewed with german malt.

 

[Amiaji]

When I first poured this beer I left the yeast in the bottle. After sampling it that way then I added the yeast. It definitely makes a difference in the beer. More clovey without the yeast, more banana with it.

Aroma - Some clove and banana with more clove at first. Then the banana comes through more. Maybe a hint of bubblegum.

Appearance - Was crystal clear at first, light amber color. Then cloudy after I added the yeast and somewhat darker. Head about 1/4", long lasting. Not much lacing.

Flavor. I tasted it first without swirling the yeast. Had more of the clove coming through. After swirling the yeast in the banana seemed to be more prominent. Slight tartness. I usually dont like wheat beers much this one is quite good.

Mouthfeel - Medium to medium light body. Good carbonation.

Overall - Good beer. This one has been in the fridge a while so most of the esters have probably dissipated somewhat(which may be why I like it). Too bad I only have one bottle.

 

[Amiaji]

Aroma - Malty aroma. Caramel.

Appearance - Dark brown in color. Low tan head. Some lacing.

Flavor - Mild malty sweetness with some caramel flavors. Medium dry finish. Not much bitterness. Something there my limited palette cant Identify.

Mouthfeel - medium body. Medium carbonation.

Overall - A good beer. Not much more I can tell you about it. I wish my palette could identify more. There is something there I have smelled/tasted before but I cant put it into words.

 

[Warrior]

Warrior's German Helles

Aroma- Sweet malt aroma stands alone here. No hop spiciness, very very little DMS. Actually, I'm noticing that as the beer warms, the corn flavor is coming out, though at low levels.

Appearance- Poured a slightly darker gold than the canadaian malt helles. Not nearly as clear and has lots of floaties floating around. Each gives off its own little bubble stream. Big rocky head dissipated almost immediately to just a thin layer on top of the beer.

Flavor- Sweet malt aroma is defintely less prevalent here than in the canadian malt version. Bitterness is about at the same level as the canadian, but seems a bit smoother. The high carbonation gives the beer a bit of a metallic taste. It is also a bit drier than the canadian malt version (or maybe the higher carbonation is making it seem that way). The corn, though much reduced over the candian malt version, is still present in the taste, but at much lower levels.

Mouthfeel- High carbonation. Began overflowing from the bottle when the cap was removed. Very crisp mouthfeel with low body.

Overall- Great beer. I actually preferred this one over the canadian malt version, though it had less aroma, flavor and character. It was a drier, crisper, smoother beer. Even easier than the candian malt version to drink. I'd be all over this one at the beach or the pool or after coming inside on a hot day. It wasn't as pretty as the candian malt version (cloudy, bits of "stuff" floating around, no head) but I still enjoyed it more. It's interesting the hop character is different between the two. Thanks for the chance to compare the two!

PS. For those who are confused at this point, Warrior sent two versions of the same helles recipe, one brewed with canadian malt, and one brewed with german malt.

Thanks for the feedback. I have had two different results with that german malt beer. Some are way overcarbonated and some are normal. The less carbonated ones have a better malt grain flavor, Sorry you got the over carbonated one.

 

[KingBrianI]

Thanks for the feedback. I have had two different results with that german malt beer. Some are way overcarbonated and some are normal. The less carbonated ones have a better malt grain flavor, Sorry you got the over carbonated one.

No problem man, it was still great. Send me your overcarbonated beers anytime!

 

[Warrior]

First I want to say that this was an excellent example of a Steam Beer, I enjoyed it very much and would like more sent my way

Bella's Steamin Brew

Aroma 10/12
Good woody type hop aroma mixed with a good toasted caramel malt aromas.

App 3/3
Clear med copper color with a good full head that clings to the glass

Flavor 17/20
Good toasted malt flavors followed by the hop bitterness. Nice balance between the malt and hop bitterness. A pleasant crisp dry and clean finish.

Mouthfeel 4/5
Good medium body and dry finish

Overall Imp 9/10
Excellent example of the style. I would not change a thing except I do need more!

Total 43/50

 

[KingBrianI]

TexLaw’s Indian Summer American Hybrid

Aroma: The first thing you notice is a big american (cascade) hop aroma. Blending perfectly with it is a sweet malt aroma tending towards caramel/toffee. I almost get a hint of a little chocolate and coffee notes.

Appearance: Poured a deep deep ruby, almost opaque but very clear. A big off-white to tan head stuck around for a while. Awesome lacing.

Flavor: Very dry, with a background of rich caramel and hops. Hop flavor is pretty strong but bitterness is smooth and balances well with the malt. There is a bit of tartness from the hops that conflicts somewhat with the sweet caramel aromas but not to the great detriment of the flavor. The coffee or chocolate aromas come through in the aroma very slightly.

Mouthfeel: Medium-bodied with great mouthfeel. Moderate carbonation is smooth upon hitting the tongue, but then explodes into bubbles that thin the mouthfeel somewhat.

Overall: A very enjoyable beer, though I’m somewhat befuddled by the combination of flavors and aromas. I agree with you that it almost defies classification. The closest category would be american brown ale, though hop flavors are somewhat stronger than typical. The sweet caramel and chocolate aromas and flavors are great but I feel they would integrate with the overall whole better if the beer was slightly less dry. I think a bit more sweetness would also counteract the slight tartness I’m getting from the hops in a positive way as well. That’s not to say the beer isn’t extremely enjoyable as is, though. I highly enjoyed it. Thanks for the chance to review it!

 

[TerapinChef]

Hey Terrapin Chef, it would be nice to be able to review some of your beers, oh wait, I haven't received them yet.

I wish I had some reviews to look at...

Poor ego

 

[ShortSnoutBrewing]

Hey Warrior...thanks for the kind words. Not sure how I missed this one. That was one of my fav brews and it went fast. Guess I'll need to do another.