off flavor - medicinal/band-aid - i know chlorine BUT help me solve the puzzle

[Sawdustguy]

Just a recap on the medicinal causes:
Chlorine or Chloramine in the water
Poor yeast health
High fermentation temps
Water from a bad garden hose
Any others you guys can think of?

I don't believe infection causes the medicinal taste. Correct me on that if I am wrong. The pitching temp is really high, and if the yeast is healthy, it will take off quickly. Therefore it may take a while for the temperature to settle down inside the fermenter.

I always considered the high fermentation temperatures to have a very strong phenolic taste as opposed to medicinal but they are both somewhat similar and could be confused easily.

When you mention that the taste shows up in the bottle, I tend to worry about oxidation. If you don't have your bottling process down to a science, an oxidized taste will develop after a couple of weeks that causes a frustrating off flavor that could be confused with medicinal taste.

Here is what the experts say:

Medicinal
Tastes/Smells Like: Cough syrup, mouthwash, Band-Aid™, smoke, clove-like (spicy)

Possible Causes: A variety of different phenols are almost always the cause for medicinal flavors in beer. Phenols can cause solvent, astringent, plastic and medicinal flavors. Medicinal-tasting phenols are usually brought out during mashing and/or sparging and are caused by incorrect pH levels, water amounts and temperatures. Using chlorine or iodine-based sanitizers improperly can bring out Chlorophenols. Yeast also produces phenols, and a clove-like characteristic is deliberate in some ale, especially Hefeweizen and other wheat beers.

How to Avoid: Follow proper mashing and sparging techniques and always follow the specific directions for different sanitizers. Taking the same precautions to avoid Chlorophenols and astringency should help to wipe out the chances of medicinal flavors. Always use the proper yeast for the style of beer being brewed.

 

[kcinpdx]

I am very interested in this thread b/c I had the EXACT SAME ISSUE over a period of a few brews. The pale ale came out of the primary tasting great. I dry -hopped then bam - bandaids. I had a different pale ale that came out bandaid tasting so I let it sit for a few weeks. I decided to dump it, but as I was slowly dumping, I placed a glass under it for giggles. Tasted fine. I stopped, re-sealed it and drank it for about a week before the taste returned.
In the end I have narrowed it down to one of three things:
1. infected hops. All of those brews came from the same 1 lb bag of cascade
2. too highly concentrated Oxy without good rinsing prior to sanitization
3. too highly concentrated Iodophor.

Things are back to normal, but it really had me baffled for a while.

 

[adc123]

kcinpdx: That's similar to my issues. My first few brews my only santizer was OneStep. They never had any issues smell or taste wise, but we also bland IMO. Once I read around and people mostly use StarSan and Iodophor, i started using those. Maybe its something about how much I use, but it could definitely be related to that. From now on ill use OneStep at bottling time.

 

[trubled]

i backflush the therminator with hot water, both ways, about 5 times immediately after chilling. THen I soak it in pbw and then let it dry. I sanitize the whole line with star san just before chilling.

Sounds like an airborne brettanomyces yeast infection. It requires a serious deep cleaning (I prefer caustic soda/ citric acid or others here may recommend bleach) EVERYWHERE -- equipment, surfaces, remove wood or other refuges etc. Once your brewing area is infected it is difficult to remove ask any winemaker.

 

[rwfishbu]

I had similar experiences as mandoman's on my last two paler beers. The first was an Imperial Hefeweizen, and it was more clove-like than band-aid, but I definitly got some band-aid flavors. The second is an Imperial IPA that's in primary, and the gravity test sample had a noticeable band-aid flavor.

This thread has been really helpful to give me some ideas of where to start. For me, I'll start with cold side sanitization of my ball valve and hoses (hoses are all getting replaced) as well as getting more anal about sanitizer concentrations.

Thank you to all past posters on this thread. Great info.

 

[trubled]

After tossing a few infected batches immediately I kept several 1 litre flip tops back for kicks. After 5 months I popped one, and it was surprisingly drinkable with this annoying flavour far in the background. Trying the next one it was not at all consumable. It is quite interesting to see this massive variation between bottles when their treatment and contents were seemingly consistent. Still puzzled but have a couple theories, (a) the infection was stratified to some degree and somehow made a difference when filling, (b) the varying ullage somehow was a determining factor.

Should have kept more.

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

Varying levels of rinsing in your bottles when using chlorine as a sanitizer?

M_C

After tossing a few infected batches immediately I kept several 1 litre flip tops back for kicks. After 5 months I popped one, and it was surprisingly drinkable with this annoying flavour far in the background. Trying the next one it was not at all consumable. It is quite interesting to see this massive variation between bottles when their treatment and contents were seemingly consistent. Still puzzled but have a couple theories, (a) the infection was stratified to some degree and somehow made a difference when filling, (b) the varying ullage somehow was a determining factor.

Should have kept more.

 

[Elisha8685]

This has been a problem for me in my last few beers. A couple things I have been thinking about:

1. Chlorine, not just in the water you use to Mash/Boil your wort with, but the water that is mixed with Starsan for sanitizing the Primary/Secondary fermenter, and the bottles. I am getting my water checked by the water company free today, so more to follow on that.

2. Bottling, my friend has brewed a lot at my house and the big difference has been that he Kegs and I bottle. I use the caps that are supposed to consume the oxygen, but maybe that takes a while? Can the oxygen in the top of your bottle create an off flavor for a while until consumed by the chemicals in the cap? (The reason I ask this is that I have had a couple of beers before that have a gross Band Aid flavor for the first few months and after about 5 months of being bottled, they have made a turn for the better in Flavor. The beers that have done this were (Scotch Silly Clone, Newcastle Clone). This flavor has also happened when I have both sterilized my bottles in the dishwasher without soap and when I have used Starsan with my tap water. (I say this because I was banking that possible soap leftovers from regular dish-washing had been causing the band aids... but no.)

3. Fermentation Temperature: my beers haven't seemed to have a problem with fermenting because they have been pretty active (especially a Corsendonk Belgium Brown Ale that I just cloned which was the most violent fermentation process I have personally seen but still has the Band Aids after bottling) but in general, I am fermenting at usually 68-72 degrees, is this enough change to cause the off flavors?

I am open to suggestions, I am looking forward to seeing what news the Water people bring me.

 

[Elisha8685]

UPDATE

Just to fill yall in on a little test I just bottled my most recent beer today that was originally made with my regular chlorinated tap water. Well anyways, I know that it is very possible that the chlorinated water originally used to make my brew could be the problem, but I ran a little test today to see if the changes I made during bottling might have solved the band aid problem.

Today while bottling I used ALL distilled store bought water. Everything from sanitizing my bottles, equipment and caps to the actual water that the sugar was boiled in was using distilled store bought water. Here's my hypothesis that I am checking. I want to see if it is not so much the Chlorination of the water originally used that matters but the chlorination of the water that is used and put in the bottles with the sugar etc at bottling day. One of my reasons for thinking this is that usually my beer on bottling day tastes pretty fantastic but after a couple weeks in the bottle, I get band aids. Also, I would think that some/most of the original chlorine in the water would get boiled out. Anyways, since I just used clean water for the bottling portion I am excited to see if that is the potential fix for this frustrating problem. I will post again on this in a couple weeks.

 

[jamest22]

A worthwhile test would be to buy a new bottling bucket, spigot, wand, and hose. Bottle your next beer with this new gear. I had a similar problem and this worked.

 

[adc123]

Hi! I was having a similar problem. What kind of sanitizer have you been using? Is your tap water hard or soft?

I have VERY hard tap water. I was using iodophor as this seemed to work for other people. At bottling, the beer was excellent almost every time. After bottle conditioning (ie a month) the beer wasn't so tasty. Always a weird tartness or plastic kind of taste. I suspected sanitizer and/or water. I moved to distilled water and star san. This change seems to keep the beer the same from carboy to bottling to conditioning.

It can also be the water you use for brewing. Many of my early batches were 100% distilled water and extract and clean/sanitize with one step. I moved to filtered tap water and extract with iodophor. The beer was over all not as good. I was also unhappy after tasting my friends all grain beer and my extract, so I went AG. Plus i went with distilled and tap water for the beer, and distilled for my starsan. My beer seems to be great now.

Long story short, look at your brewing water for hardness and how effective your santizers are.

 

[Chefkeith]

+1 on the Brett.

I was doing a sensory analysis with an Illinois State Wine Consultant, and he taught me to pick up Brett flavors in a couple of wines that were infected. It was a distinct Band-Aid flavor - but barely perceptible. The wine probably could have been sold as is, and most people wouldn't detect it. However, the Brett would slowly grow in the wine and be much more perceptible in the future.

 

[Elisha8685]

So anyways, I bottled a week ago with distilled water used in every aspect of cleaning and the boiling sugar etc and star san and so far the beer has turned out absolutely fantastic, its not completely carbonated yet but has not one trace of band aid in it at all. I am pretty excited and will post again an update in another couple weeks just to verify. As of right now though I think I can pretty much say that the hypothesis was correct.

::The chlorine content in the water at boiling is not as important as having chlorine free water for cleaning your bottles and equipment as well as for the bottling sugar water that you boil just prior to bottling!

 

[uncleben113]

I know this is a necropost but I'm having the same issue.

I think I have my issue pinned down to oxidation and high storage temps but now I'm wondering about the tap water I use in my sanitizer and priming sugar solution.

My beer always tastes great as we bottle but it seems like as it ages, it gets and increases in the band-aid aroma/taste. Could the chlorine from the two cups of tap water that I use to dissolve my priming sugar in really be the culprit? That seems really hard to believe. What seems even harder to believe is that chlorine in my sanitizer solution is causing it.

 

[JuanMoore]

I know this is a necropost but I'm having the same issue.

I think I have my issue pinned down to oxidation and high storage temps but now I'm wondering about the tap water I use in my sanitizer and priming sugar solution.

My beer always tastes great as we bottle but it seems like as it ages, it gets and increases in the band-aid aroma/taste. Could the chlorine from the two cups of tap water that I use to dissolve my priming sugar in really be the culprit? That seems really hard to believe. What seems even harder to believe is that chlorine in my sanitizer solution is causing it.

The taste threshold for chlorophenols is very low, as in parts per billion rather than parts per million, so yes, 2 cups of moderately to heavily chlorinated water plus chlorinated sanitizer solution could be the cause. This is especially true if you use the same water to brew with, since it may contribute some chorophenols, but not enough to taste at bottling, and then the additional chlorine introduced with the priming sugar pushes it past the taste threshold. The chlorophenols from chlorinated water, using PVC hoses, etc. form within a few days of being introduced, so if it get's worse the longer it ages I'd look more towards infection.

 

[adc123]

I know this is a necropost but I'm having the same issue.

I think I have my issue pinned down to oxidation and high storage temps but now I'm wondering about the tap water I use in my sanitizer and priming sugar solution.

My beer always tastes great as we bottle but it seems like as it ages, it gets and increases in the band-aid aroma/taste. Could the chlorine from the two cups of tap water that I use to dissolve my priming sugar in really be the culprit? That seems really hard to believe. What seems even harder to believe is that chlorine in my sanitizer solution is causing it.

Oxidation is a tough sell. Unless you are seriously splashing your beer around, I don't think you would see oxidation (wet cardboard, papery) notes. Now high storage temps would accelerate microbe replication.

Band-aids are directly chlorine or infection. I am leaning more towards infection. The quickest way to know is to dispose of everything you use to bottle (bucket, racking cane, cane tubing. You can keep the capper, just sanitize it before putting it on a bottle). Also, start using boiled water with the sugar. You don't need to let it cool, just put it in the bucket while racking. The beer will cool it down. Rather than changing one thing at a time, I find it more effective to start new when dealing with infection. If your primary ferments are okay, then i think your problem is bottling. Good luck!

 

[uncleben113]

I'm usually really careful with sanitizing everything but I guess I haven't been great about cleaning. I just got some PBW so I'm going to give everything a good cleaning before I do anything else. I'm also going to ditch some tubing and replace it.

As for oxidation, when transferring my beer from primary to secondary or to bottling bucket, I usually let the tubing drain a few inches from the bottom of the vessel. This usually happens two to three times during the life of each of my beers. I'm going to be more careful from now on but is that enough to cause oxidation?

 

[adc123]

That little extra beer going in is not a problem. Everyone does it.

Cleaning is as important as sanitation.After trial, error, and a lot of trashing, I think my problem was related to my tap water. I have very hard tap water. Cleaners and sanitizers do not like hard water. It makes their job hard or impossible. I now used distilled water for a lot of cleaning (PBW heated on a stove with DI) and all of my StarSan is DI. I started to notice with hard water that I had a residue in my carboys, so at that point I just had to bite the bullet.

 

[uncleben113]

I usually use spring water that I buy from the grocery store to brew with but I never use it for sanitizer water or to dissolve my priming sugar in. I'm starting to think that the water is the culprit.

My last batch I brewed, I said to hell with spring water, I'm using tap water. I was really testing to see if the spring water was making any difference. So last night I popped one of the beers from that batch open after 3 weeks of bottle conditioning and what did I taste and smell? Bandaids right up front!

What I don't understand is why didn't it taste like that when I bottled it? It tasted great when I bottled it, as do all of my others. But this one didn't take time to develop that flavor like another one of them did. So maybe it is an infection... I don't know

 

[Elisha8685]

A know its been a while since I posted on here. But a big change I made that solved the Band-aid problem was I started Kegging! I haven't had one beer turn out with bandaid flavor since I switched. I think that the Chlorine and Infection rates play into this.

1. Chlorine: when I bottled, water is used for everything, each bottle is washed and sanitized.
2. Infection: I never felt a total peace about the sanitation of my bottles. With a keg, I can deliberately spend time cleaning the one or two containers because they affect the whole batch. It makes me feel better than worrying about 50-100 bottles.
2.a: Many times when I used to bottle my beer tasted decent @ bottling, really there were no off flavors at all. The off-flavors would produce in the bottles. With kegging, once fermentation is complete, I have so much less worry because I throw the kegs in my kegerator where it sits at really low temperatures. Changing from bottling to kegging has to be the best brewing decision I made. All of my beers except one turned out fantastic. The one that didn't soured, but for God's sake, it wasn't band-aids.

I know this isn't the best answer, but I do understand the frustration of losing all of the hard work with crappy beer. For me, it was worth the $$ to switch.

 

[jeremy586]

I had the same problem with all of my brown ales. It was strange because everything tasted great until I keged each batch. Once I forced carbonated I had the same taste. I have switched to starsan instead of iodine based sanitizer and it seemed to delay when the band-aid taste would be present. I'm starting to think its my keg even though I have taken it apart and cleaned the snot out of it before. Is this similar story to anyone else?

 

[lunshbox]

For those that want to continue bottling, have you thought about baking your bottles instead of using a liquid solution?