Nutrachef mini keg carbing question

[crosschk]

Hey everyone its been a few years. Just getting back into extract/mrbeer brewing.

I am getting my pipeline in good order. I recently bought the 1 gallon mini keg from nutrichef.

My question is when i put the co2 cartridge in, at first the gage was up to around 23psi, now its down to about 17psi

Is that normal for these little co2 cartridges?

How long will it take to carb at this psi before i put it in the frige?

Thanks in advance

 

[doug293cz]

What size are the CO2 cartridges (weight rating)? Compressed CO2 is a liquid, and the pressure is determined only by the temperature of the cartridge, until all of the liquid is gone and there is only gas in the cartridge (at which point the pressure is determined by how much CO2 is left in the cartridge.) One gallon of beer is going to require 0.4 to 0.53 oz (11 to 15 g) in order to carbonate.

Also, you want to chill the beer while it carbonates, as it takes less pressure to carbonate cold beer to the same "volumes" of CO2, compared to warm beer. Holding at room temperature is only for naturally carbonating via fermentation.

Finally, to get proper carbonation at the table pressure, you need to purge the headspace of air, otherwise you will be under carbonated. And, purging O2 from the headspace limits any oxidation of the beer after kegging. Do you have a way to purge the headspace? Purging also requires additional CO2, beyond what is required for carbonation.

Brew on

 

[bracconiere]

wait to see what the psi stabilizes at, and cross reference on 'that' chart...the gallon will only absorb what it can? kinda like a light bulb?

 

[crosschk]

What size are the CO2 cartridges (weight rating)? Compressed CO2 is a liquid, and the pressure is determined only by the temperature of the cartridge, until all of the liquid is gone and there is only gas in the cartridge (at which point the pressure is determined by how much CO2 is left in the cartridge.) One gallon of beer is going to require 0.4 to 0.53 oz (11 to 15 g) in order to carbonate.

Also, you want to chill the beer while it carbonates, as it takes less pressure to carbonate cold beer to the same "volumes" of CO2, compared to warm beer. Holding at room temperature is only for naturally carbonating via fermentation.

Finally, to get proper carbonation at the table pressure, you need to purge the headspace of air, otherwise you will be under carbonated. And, purging O2 from the headspace limits any oxidation of the beer after kegging. Do you have a way to purge the headspace? Purging also requires additional CO2, beyond what is required for carbonation.

Brew on

There is a pressure releave valve and i did that after I filled it and closed it up.

The pressure did stay around 17 or 18 psi over night.

Following the suggestion I just put it in the fridge.

I attached a picture of the co2 box.

Now that its chilling in the fridge, how long until I can pour and serve?

 

[crosschk]

After putting the mini keg in the fridge for about 10 hours the psi went up to 20. So seems ok.

How long till i can drink it?

 

[DuncB]

A glass full of foam should be ready quite soon.

 

[crosschk]

Even after dropping the psi back down? I was trying to force carb

 

[DuncB]

You can accelerate the carbing process by shaking or rocking the mini keg around.

But once the pressure gauge stabilises which is a variable based on temperature and the shaking, because you have put a fixed volume of CO2 into the system there will be equilibrium between the CO2 in the beer and in the space above.
If it stabilises at 20 psi say at 6 celsius ( sorry to mix units)
Then your beer will be carbonated at using this

https://drhansbrewery.com/beercarbonationcalculator/
That will be around 3 vols of CO2 which is quite a high carbonation level.
Without a flow control tap this will be difficult to pour, using this tool will guide you on beer line length.

https://www.brewingcalculators.com/beer-line-length/
Say 4mm internal, assuming gravity of 1.050 and 0.5 metre for tap above keg middle you need 4.7 foot of line.

If you decided to use 1/4 inch line that figure jumps to nearly 43 feet ( that isn't a typo ).

So small diameter line is your friend with these things.

I have just got some 2.5mm internal beer line and that only needs 0.5 foot of line.

This may help as well but it's really for set and forget force carbing rather than hurried force carbing which you are using.

 

[bracconiere]

just because, i'm going to ask how you plan to tap this 'mini-keg'?

edit: i see that's been addressed....

 

[crosschk]

just because, i'm going to ask how you plan to tap this 'mini-keg'?

It came with a tap that screws on to the top next to the co2 regular

 

[crosschk]

Ok so this is my first time with this keg.

I get the feeling I'm doing it wrong

 

[bracconiere]

It came with a tap that screws on to the top next to the co2 regular

i might look up serving pour time charts, and test it to see how long it takes to pour a pint to see if it has enough restriction or not? just a thought....

 

[bracconiere]

Ok so this is my first time with this keg.

I get the feeling I'm doing it wrong

i wouldn't worry....learning curves are half the fun! then knowing is half the battle!

 

[crosschk]

Tomorrow I'll lower the psi regulator and release some pressure..maybe that'll work

 

[crosschk]

If i were to do it all over again (next batch) i clean sanitize, fill the keg. What should be the initial psi setting. Without the rolling the keg around stuff? And how long till i can sample it

 

[doug293cz]

After putting the mini keg in the fridge for about 10 hours the psi went up to 20. So seems ok.

How long till i can drink it?

Even after dropping the psi back down? I was trying to force carb

There is very little experience within the community using your particular keg. Carbonation rates depend on the beer volume, the CO2 pressure, beer temperature, area of beer exposed to the CO2, depth of the beer. The items in bold are different from what homebrewers usually work with, so our experience will not be directly applicable.

The best way for you to proceed is to set the pressure based on the chart for your keg temp and desired level of carbonation (probably between 2.3 and 2.7 volumes, depending on your personal preference for amount of carbonation.) People have developed methods for using pressures above the chart pressure for limited times in order to speed up carbonation. But these are based on full, 5 gal kegs. and would probably over carbonate your beer. You cannot over carbonate if you are using the appropriate chart pressure based on temp and desired carb level. You can set at chart pressure and agitate the keg to speed up carbonation. Shaking every 15 minutes should work well. You will probably want to let the beer settle for a day after a day of shaking.

Here's the "chart"

Brew on

 

[bracconiere]

Tomorrow I'll lower the psi regulator and release some pressure..maybe that'll work

i'd still test it with pour time, the difference between 3 and 10 seconds should be big enough to know....

and i'm guilty of not knowing how to balance lines and doing the carb and lower pressure to like 4-5psi thing, before i learned....

i'd wonder if this keg is intended to be served with a sanke kind of party pump?

 

[doug293cz]

If i were to do it all over again (next batch) i clean sanitize, fill the keg. What should be the initial psi setting. Without the rolling the keg around stuff? And how long till i can sample it

As I said in my previous post, you are in uncharted territory. No one can tell you what elevated pressure to start with, and for how long, in order to achieve acceptable carbonation in a reduced time period, without just guessing. If you just want to "set and forget" pressure per the chart, it will probably take 1.5 - 2 weeks to achieve "full" carbonation. By setting the chart pressure and shaking, you can reduce the time to about a day.

Brew on

 

[crosschk]

Oy...a lot more complicated than i had hoped. I think I'm going to try a different size keg.

I make small 2 gallon mrbeer batches right now and I'm getting tired of bottling. Lol.

Thanks for all the answers.

 

[bracconiere]

I make small 2 gallon mrbeer batches right now and I'm getting tired of bottling. Lol.

+1 on that, you'll get it done!

edit: and you'll be using nitro cartriges for cold brew coffee too! something us 5 gallon keg boys would need $300 worth of stuff to do!

 

[crosschk]

As I said in my previous post, you are in uncharted territory. No one can tell you what elevated pressure to start with, and for how long, in order to achieve acceptable carbonation in a reduced time period, without just guessing. If you just want to "set and forget" pressure per the chart, it will probably take 1.5 - 2 weeks to achieve "full" carbonation. By setting the chart pressure and shaking, you can reduce the time to about a day.

Brew on

I'll shoot for set and forget next time and just let it sit for 2 weeks like the bottles but in a fridge

 

[doug293cz]

Oy...a lot more complicated than i had hoped. I think I'm going to try a different size keg.

I make small 2 gallon mrbeer batches right now and I'm getting tired of bottling. Lol.

Thanks for all the answers.

There is definitely a learning curve to successful kegging, but it's worth the effort to figure it out.

Brew on

 

[bracconiere]

There is definitely a learning curve to successful kegging, but it's worth the effort to figure it out.

Brew on

 

[DuncB]

Lot of helpful advice here, but as said above, you've got your compass and the winds blowing but you are slightly in uncharted waters. But you are still afloat!
You get the impression that there's an element of witchcraft involved in force carbing in a hurry.

 

[crosschk]

After sleeping on it, and reading a good post pinned to the top of the forum. I am starting to understand.

If I keep my beer at 34° to 36° i should set the pressure to the psi that corresponds to level of carbination i want. (I like my beer cold, some could argue I dont like beer and we'll agree to disagree)

That chart is for long term 1-2 week wait time. Which I am ok with right now. I have 3 or 4 two gallon batches conditioning in bottles now in a 70° fermentation chamber

For the current batch I have released the pressure and dropped the psi to 5. Reading another post, I should be able to release some pressure every few hours to get it down to servable levels. Or it might come out perfect. I might try it at lunch but I'm afraid it may become a habbit lol

I understand no one uses this particular keg, and depending on how it turns out, i may return to amazon as its still in the return window (which will be the 3rd time i return it, once I changed my mind and 2nd time was missing all the parts)

I do want to keg, but I am 1 guy so 2 gallon batches are all I'm making right now. I see 2.5 gallon kegs out there and if i understand correctly I can still use them just wasting an amount of co2 to fill the extra space.

That sound about right?

Sorry for the long post and thanks to all for the responses

 

[FrankCazabon]

I have a keg like this but only use it as a means of transporting and serving already carbonated beer. Essentially a fancy growler. I don't think it's meant to be used for carbonating beer.

 

[crosschk]

I have a keg like this but only use it as a means of transporting and serving already carbonated beer. Essentially a fancy growler. I don't think it's meant to be used for carbonating beer.

I am starting to head in that direction. I read on another forum that others have used this. Unfortunately that forum is on facebook and i don't usually go on there if i can help it lol

 

[FrankCazabon]

Not sure if it makes a difference but mine is a nutrichef, but nitrachef.

 

[crosschk]

Not sure if it makes a difference but mine is a nutrichef, but nitrachef.

I'm a terrible speller/typist your probably right lol

 

[crosschk]

Not sure if it makes a difference but mine is a nutrichef, but nitrachef.

Looked it up yep you were right, thread title updated