Not Reaching OG

[lbernard3]

I have a question about OG. We follow a recipe exactly and many times will miss out OG by 10-30 pts. For example, I plug a recipe into Beersmith, it says OG should be around 1064. We hit 1050. (The orig. recipe said it should be around 1074-from Sam C. book Extreme Brewing, but from what I have read, his calculations are way off) I know we mixed the wort and extra water to reach 5.25 gallons really well. (This has happened before with other recipes as well) I am wondering if there is anything we could be doing in the brewing process to screw this up?

If I need to give the recipes, I can. But I was just wondering if there is something we could be doing that might come to anyone's mind.

We use both a refractometer and a hydrometer and got identical readings.

Thanks-
Lou

 

[RobInOre]

Can sugar be boiled off? If you boiled for several hours would some sugar be lost and thus lower the OG? I don't know why you would want to boil that long, I'm just spitballing.

I'm certainly no expert but OG seems to be strictly a math problem. "X" amount of sugar dissolved in "Y" amount of water will equal "Z" specific gravity. I was thinking your hydrometer was broken until you mentioned the refractometer. I've never used one of those but if it confirms the hydrometer readings then...

I'm puzzled right along with you.

 

[geoffm33]

What is the temperature of the wort when you are taking the sample? What is the gravity of water at that same temperature with the same hydrometer?

 

[petrolSpice]

I think the issue comes down to mixing. I've had the same issue as you, never hitting the expected OG, always lower by a significant amount. Apparently it is very difficult to fully mix the top off water with the boiled wort. You might need some sort of mixer attached to a drill.

The wort is very dense, so it sinks to the bottom of the top-off water. So if it's not sufficiently mixed, and you pull a sample from the top, it will be mostly water leading to a lower SG than expected.

If your volume of water and mass of extract is correct, then you should hit the OG, or be within a couple points. I don't even measure OG anymore, I just go by the recipe calculator.

 

[Kingbogart]

Mixing the wort and water is most likely your issue. Since you cannot boil off sugars, and the gravity is relative to the volume, you should be able to take a reading before adding your top-up water, and convert it to roughly your full batch gravity.

before top up gravity * volume = after top-up gravity * full volume


Say you started with 3 gallons of 1.087 and added the 2.25 gal top-up water.

1.087 * 3 = x * 5.25
x = 261/5.25
x = 49.7 or about 1.050

As you said, you ended with about 1.050. Calculating before adding the top-up lets you avoid the stratification issue altogether. I suspect that if you had done a reading before adding the top-up you would have been higher than 1.087.

 

[billl]

If you are using extract, it is impossible to have the wrong amount of sugar. If you top off to the correct amount of water, you will have the correct gravity. If you post the recipe, we can tell you what the gravity should be. Beersmith has lots of settings and if you don't have them correct, you won't get a correct gravity prediction.

 

[lbernard3]

Here is the recipe. Also, I used a stirring attachment with a drill and stirred for 1 min. to aerate. Also, the hydrometer would have been about 70F (room temp) and the wort would have been about about the 80F-but we didn't actually measure, so I am just guessing. Would that account for such a big difference tho?

Steep until reach 170F
1 pound Cara-Munich malt crushed
2 tsp. gypsum
Boil
6 pounds light LME (65 mins.)
1 pound light DME (65 mins.)
1.5 oz. Hallertau hop pellets - bittering (60 mins.) 4.6 AAU
1 pound light Belgian candi sugar (15 mins.)
0.5 oz. Hallertau hop pellets - flavoring (10 mins.) 4.6 AAU
1 tsp. Irish moss (10 mins.)
0.5 oz. Styrian Golding hop pellets - aroma (5 mins.) 3.4 AAU
2 oz. crystallized ginger cut into pea-sized pieces (End of Boil)

Wyeast 3724 Belgian Saison yeast

PROCESS
1. Break yeast packet 3 hours before brewing.
2. Fill brew pot 4.5 gallons of cool water. Place crystal malt grain in grain bag.
Stir. Heat pot, stir often.
3. As water approaches 170F, remove grain bag. Drain, but do not squeeze.
4. Bring pot to boil. Turn off heat. Add malt extract to pot. Return to heat.
5. When pot begins to boil, after 5 mins., add Hallertau hops and stir.
Start timer for 60 min. boil.
6. 15 mins. before end of boil, add candi sugar. Stir well until dissolved.
7. 10 mins. before end of boil, add Irish moss and Hallertau hops and stir for 1 min.
8. 5 min. before end of boil, add Styrian hops. Stir for 1 min.
9. When timer goes off, add ginger and stir for 1 minute. Then turn of heat.
10. Turn off heat. Cool to 80F.
11. Add to cool water in carboy to equal 5.25 gallons.
12. Aerate for 1 min. Pitch yeast. Take readings.

Hope it helps.

I think it is interesting that petrolSpice doesn't even measure OG anymore.

Thanks.

 

[geoffm33]

Nah, not with that close of a temp difference. 1.050 at 80* only corrects to 1.052.

Now, if it were actually 150* that would correct to 1.070.

 

[geoffm33]

As for not measuring OG, with extract if you are sure of your fermentables and your volume, the OG is just math.

 

[Kingbogart]

Based on those fermentables, I can't see it getting much higher than 1.057. You would still be short of expected but not by as much. After that, it would have to be a volume issue.

As other people mentioned LME and DME are basically set in the number of points they contribute. Northern Brewer Gold Malt Extract for instance is set at 1.036 ppg. If you used Briess Golden Light DME, it contributes 1.043ppg. Meaning total before Candi sugar is ((6*36)+43)/5.25 = 1.049 guaranteed.

If you only got 1.050 after the sugar, which is 100% fermentable, you either have more than 5.25gal or you've mis-measured your fermentables.

 

[billl]

DME is about 44 points/lb, so 7lb=308. The cara will be 20ish. Candy syrup is 32, but rocks would be 46. Overall, somewhere in the 360-374 total points of sugar. In a 5.25 batch, that is between 68-72 points per gallon or 1.068-1.072. If you have something other than that, you have a measurement error - most likely from a poorly mixed sample.

 

[geoffm33]

Yeah, I think the OG estimate is out of whack. Putting this into Brewers Friend and Beersmith I am getting about 1.056 for an OG.

So with your 80* sample corrected from 1.050 to 1.052 you aren't off by much. The temperature may have been higher than you think, the volume could have been less, combo of the two.

Can you post your Beersmith recipe? Or export the .bmx file and we can load it?

 

[rmyurick]

I think Beersmith is right, you should be around 1.064. For a 5-gallon batch, DME is about 9 pts/lb and liquid is about 7. You should get about 4 pts in 5 gallons for the crystal. Corrected to 5.25 gallons, I get 1.0638.

So, as someone mentioned above, probably either your extract weight is low or your measured final volume is high. It does take some work to stir in extract & get it mixed, due to the difference in density & viscosity. But if you are adding water to well-mixed wort, it shouldn't be an issue.

 

[rmyurick]

Misread the recipe: I get 1.061. (thought you were using all DME; sugar should also yield 9 pts/lb in 5 gallons)

 

[petrolSpice]

Measuring OG is most important when doing all grain because you don't really know for sure how much sugar you extracted from the grain until you measure it.

With extract, you know exactly how much sugar you're adding. Combined with how much water you're using, it's just math to get the OG.

 

[billl]

Just to check, is that 6lbs lme and 1 lb dme? I read it all as dme the first time, but it makes about a 9 point difference. Also, is the belgian sugar a syrup or rock?

 

[scparks]

I've had the same problem over my last two brews. I have missed my expected OG by .10-.15 and I have just chalked it up to not mixing my wort and top of water well enough. If this is the case, is it even that important to hit expected OG? Will ABV still work out the same?

 

[billl]

". If this is the case, is it even that important to hit expected OG? Will ABV still work out the same?"

I guess that depends on what you mean by "hit OG". With extract, you will always have the correct amount of sugar since LME and DME. Not having it mixed completely won't change that.

If you really added a difference amount of sugar than the recipe called for, then that would be a true change that would impact the beer. The sugar is converted to alcohol, so if the sugar level is different, your ABV would be different.

 

[lbernard3]

I have never weighed the amount of extract or DME in the bag before. Does anyone think this could be the problem? I get most of our ingredients from Midwest Supplies, so I have always figured they are doing their job, and I have never weighed the sugars.

to answer a previous question -- I used Belgian candi rocks.

Thanks for all of the help and suggestions.