New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[Northern_Brewer]

Incognito goes for €12/$12 for 15ml in Europe so $15 for 20ml isn't too bad a price. Used it a few times and it really helps with losses.

Malt Miller are doing their 15ml grey-market repacks for GBP8.49 (US$10.33) for the main ones like Citra and Mosaic, although if anyone wants to try it they have a deal on HBC472 at 35% off which might point to the margin they're making on it.

In other news, just as a little tidbit I picked up from one of the pros at GBBF this week that I've mentioned on the Star Party thread, they're trying to increase thiol release by stressing the yeast with low nitrogen, so they're using 30% maize in the grist. Not an approach I'd heard of before, but then we have to do things differently here as we can't use transgenic yeast. I do wish Farams would send British hops for bound thiol analysis, given that Saaz is the current variety of choice for mash hopping I bet some of the British hops would also work well.

 

[Jesse Runowski]

Snagged a 20ml container of Citra and Mosaic incognito from YVH. Looking forward to brewing with these in the very near future, I'll be sure to update this thread when I do. Anyone else grab some?

but I can’t justify the shipping until I need more hops

Good call, the shipping was a bit high. I paid around $11 for the pair.

If your local or semi-local to Bennington, VT I will be serving this and a mix berry cheesecake inspired smoothy sour at the Summer Homebrew Festival under the name Bantam_Brews . Tickets are still available at Summer HomeBrew Fest

This sounds awesome, I wish I could go. I need to look for local HomeBrew fests like this, such a great idea.

 

[BoilerInSoCal]

Curious what y'all are getting from Strata these days. I haven't used it in a good while and typically paired it with Citra and/or I7 but not much else. To confuse myself even more, YVH has an inconsistent message on strata: the picture of the flavor key shows: sweet fruit, berry/currant, and menthol. Their description of the characteristics though are strawberry, passion fruit, grapefruit, bubble gum, sage, and dank. So not sure what "menthol" is meant to be and TBH, I have never had a lot of strata that says "thats strawberry!" either. I have gotten dank/weed/cannibis, passionfruit, grapefruit as my primary flavors/aromas. Typically the dank/weed were more prominent in the aroma not as much in the flavor. I will say that YVH has only 2021 strata available and my personal stash is 2020, so not sure what's changed.

I recently had a beer from local brewery (Hopfly) that reported a strata/nelson combo and the beer was delicious so Im considering doing something like this pairing for my next NEIPA.

So what have ya'll gotten from strata recently? please indicate the year in the response.

I've also done the Strata/Citra/Idaho 7 (totally bomb, thanks again @Dgallo !). I wish I could give you a true description. I'm just no good at describing aromas and flavors. The YVH description seems to makes sense, except the menthol sage and bubble gum. That I don't pick up. All I really know is that tastes /smells great to me. Haven't had a bad batch with it.

I recently finished off a 3:1 Strata:Citra, which was great. And the batch that is carbing up right now is Strata:Mosaic:Cashmere (1:1:1 in WP and 2:2:1 DH). I think that might end up being one of my very best -- it is rockin and only a few days in. Both had ~20% Spelt and 3% 15L with Juice. 2021 Strata from YVH.

 

[Ulisses4677]

Just tapped my latest DIPA at 8.1% ABV. Hopped on the hotside with NZ Cascade and Simcoe and then Dryhopped heavily with Simcoe and Mosaic. I’m very impressed with this beer. Has a heavily true “hoppy” character (not bitter) followed with pithy orange, blueberry, mango, and a moderate dankness. I’m really digging the complexity

If you’re local or semi-local to Bennington, VT I will be serving this and a mix berry cheesecake inspired smoothy sour at the Summer Homebrew Festival under the name Bantam_Brews . Tickets are still available at Summer HomeBrew FestView attachment 776847

How do you construct cheesecake flavor into a smoothy sour? Sounds delicious? Extracts?

 

[Dgallo]

delicious

Puréed cheesecake lol

 

[BeerFst]

Puréed cheesecake lol

Well I guess it probably didn’t have much head retention to start with….

All that fat didn’t make it funky?

 

[Dgallo]

Well I guess it probably didn’t have much head retention to start with….

All that fat didn’t make it funky?

I typically get pretty good head retention with my sours, but this one, no shot at all. Genuinely taste like cheesecake buy a little bummed that it’s only medium bodied, really wanted it fuller.

No, didn’t get funky. I hit it with Sorbate and camden so it good at this point

 

[BongoYodeler]

Puréed cheesecake lol

Related, back in my hometown in upstate NY there's a brewery that brews a pumpkin ale every fall. They dump several baked pumpkin pies into the mash.

 

[murphyslaw]

I typically get pretty good head retention with my sours, but this one, no shot at all. Genuinely taste like cheesecake buy a little bummed that it’s only medium bodied, really wanted it fuller.

No, didn’t get funky. I hit it with Sorbate and camden so it good at this point View attachment 776931

Do you use lactose? Burley Oak has this series they call J.R.E.A.M. with lactose and all sorts of crazy flavors. Its unbelievable how they can pack so many different flavors into a beverage. The put out flavors that sound absolutely bizarre like Pineapple Coconut French Toast. Some breweries do that you but you don't really taste all those things. With jream you taste it all. Its wild.

Anyway, I think they use a good amount of lactose which gives it a really nice body and mouthfeel.

https://beerandbrewing.com/recipe-burley-oak-j-r-e-a-m/

 

[Dgallo]

Do you use lactose? Burley Oak has this series they call J.R.E.A.M. with lactose and all sorts of crazy flavors. Its unbelievable how they can pack so many different flavors into a beverage. The put out flavors that sound absolutely bizarre like Pineapple Coconut French Toast. Some breweries do that you but you don't really taste all those things. With jream you taste it all. Its wild.

Anyway, I think they use a good amount of lactose which gives it a really nice body and mouthfeel.

https://beerandbrewing.com/recipe-burley-oak-j-r-e-a-m/

I used maltodextrin as my wife is lactose intolerance. I enjoy the jream serious but I was specifically targeting what Mortalis does. My biggest issue with the body is I let the fruit ferment (there was almost 9 lbs of it) so that def took away from the fullness and thinned it a bit. Lesson learned, next time I brew one I’ll add the fruit cold.

 

[rnewt]

Wow, this thread is amazing! I've been brewing on/off for a long time, brewing very casually in NYC when I had limited space and access to Other Half, Grimm, Equilibrium, Threes, and an occasional road trip for something further.

It's awesome how far hop analysis has come. I think Scott Janish was only starting to talk about sensory notes when I last looked into this! Thanks for all of the linked articles along the way.

I moved from the northeast to Florida a year ago and am ready to brew that beautiful hazy ipa that's not accessible down here! Invasive species is probably the closest with Tripping Animals and Woven Water behind them.

I'm working my way through the thread (am on page 366 as I find time to catch up at night) and love all of the good knowledge. Also so many +1s from the first 300 pages, but especially to Citra + Nelson being a great hop combo and biotransformation being aggressively mismarketed.

@Noob_Brewer Let me know if you've got any anvil foundry tips for boosting efficiency! I found a good deal on a used 10.5 and am hopefully doing my first brew on it this weekend.

Cheers all!

 

[Ulisses4677]

I typically get pretty good head retention with my sours, but this one, no shot at all. Genuinely taste like cheesecake buy a little bummed that it’s only medium bodied, really wanted it fuller.

No, didn’t get funky. I hit it with Sorbate and camden so it good at this point View attachment 776931

Looks delicious.

 

[Sbe2]

hey @Dgallo what does your fermentation schedule look like with A24? I will be pitching it this afternoon.

 

[Sbe2]

Wow, this thread is amazing! I've been brewing on/off for a long time, brewing very casually in NYC when I had limited space and access to Other Half, Grimm, Equilibrium, Threes, and an occasional road trip for something further.

It's awesome how far hop analysis has come. I think Scott Janish was only starting to talk about sensory notes when I last looked into this! Thanks for all of the linked articles along the way.

I moved from the northeast to Florida a year ago and am ready to brew that beautiful hazy ipa that's not accessible down here! Invasive species is probably the closest with Tripping Animals and Woven Water behind them.

I'm working my way through the thread (am on page 366 as I find time to catch up at night) and love all of the good knowledge. Also so many +1s from the first 300 pages, but especially to Citra + Nelson being a great hop combo and biotransformation being aggressively mismarketed.

@Noob_Brewer Let me know if you've got any anvil foundry tips for boosting efficiency! I found a good deal on a used 10.5 and am hopefully doing my first brew on it this weekend.

Cheers all!

Try and get some Calusa or Green Bench, they are the best haze I have found so far thats brewed down here in SW FL.

 

[murphyslaw]

I’ve made 4-5 straight NEIPAs, tweaking the mash bill to find something to settle on. First two or three were pretty good. Then I did a split batch to compare 1318 to 095.

I’ve got my last 3 on tap right now. I try to do a full BJCP style scoring of all my beers. So I finally got around to doing that for all 3.

Right and left are from the split batch. Crazy oxidized. Never seen that before

 

[Ulisses4677]

Never seen oxidization that bad but it happens to the best of us.

 

[Ulisses4677]

 

[Ulisses4677]

Order Thursday received it today in the mail.

 

[murphyslaw]

The middle one was brewed about 3 months ago and definitely had a bit of oxidation that I did not detect when it was fresh. The other two were brewed 2 months ago and never tasted good.

Oh well, they're down the drain now and I've got a Cold IPA carbing up, a hoppy american wheat boiling away now, and a gose planned for tomorrow.

And a friend just came back from New England and filled my beer fridge with Treehouse. So I won't go thirsty in the meantime.

 

[skleice]

Order Thursday received it today in the mail.

Same. YVH is no joke. Cross country in a day

 

[tracer bullet]

OK, so I always buy NEIPA since I didn't figure I could pull one off. But I've been brewing a long time and make good beer in many other styles and know I can so I'm going for it. This is a very newb question amongst you guys that exist in a highly knowledgeable and even experimenting plane, but here goes. I'm looking to brew the following:

• 5 lbs 2-row, 5 lbs Golden Promise, 2 lbs Flaked Wheat, 1.5 lbs White Wheat, .25 lbs Honey Malt
• Citra, Mosaic and Galaxy hops used in equal amounts, and added at 10 minutes before flame out (1 oz each), whirlpool (1.5 oz each), and dry (1 oz each)
• London 1318 (will use a starter) at 70F (Maybe Omega A24)
• Mash pH target 5.35, Ca 90, Mg10, Na 24, Cl 140, and SO4 68
• Will pay a lot of attention to 02 throughout, especially at the end during transfer (as I always do)

I'm SURE there are better recipes. But I'd like to ask - does this look like a good start? Or am I missing anything pretty big?

 

[BeerFst]

OK, so I always buy NEIPA since I didn't figure I could pull one off. But I've been brewing a long time and make good beer in many other styles and know I can so I'm going for it. This is a very newb question amongst you guys that exist in a highly knowledgeable and even experimenting plane, but here goes. I'm looking to brew the following:

• 5 lbs 2-row, 5 lbs Golden Promise, 2 lbs Flaked Wheat, 1.5 lbs White Wheat, .25 lbs Honey Malt
• Citra, Mosaic and Galaxy hops used in equal amounts, and added at 10 minutes before flame out (1 oz each), whirlpool (1.5 oz each), and dry (1 oz each)
• London 1318 (will use a starter) at 70F (Maybe Omega A24)
• Mash pH target 5.35, Ca 90, Mg10, Na 24, Cl 140, and SO4 68
• Will pay a lot of attention to 02 throughout, especially at the end during transfer (as I always do)

I'm SURE there are better recipes. But I'd like to ask - does this look like a good start? Or am I missing anything pretty big?

I think you’re pretty good but I’d up your dry hop to at least 2 oz of each hop, if keeping it equal. Avoid adding the the Galaxy during fermentation if you can with your set up, it’s high in polyphenols and can add a harshness that gets amplified by fermentation activity (in my experience). All 6 at a time isn’t a problem. If you can crash yeast before dry hopping that will also help with aroma.

I’d also consider starting juice 68 or so for two days then letting it rise to 72-74 but I don’t see anything wrong with 70 the whole time

 

[rnewt]

Really? That's so disappointing to hear, Equilibrium are one of my favorite brewery's. I haven't been able to get anything from the over the last few months as nothing as seemed to make it over to Europe. Is this down to expansion issue? I really hate when I order some Other Half stuff for around $10-$15 a can and when I open the box I'm greeted with the DC green ring pull. Dc's beers are garbage. OH are at a beer festival here in Ireland next weekend and wondering where their supply will be coming from.

Man, +1 to the feeling when you see those green tabs. I've got a box coming this week, wish me luck! I think I remember from conversations at the BK brewery that DC's water supply is on a rotation from a number of different water sources and they poured out A LOT of beer early on trying to figure it out.

I'm trying to understand something that's come up a few times in this thread, are mash hops (say... cascade or saaz) mostly just to unlock the thiols if you're fermenting with a yeast capable of biotransformation, like Cosmic Punch? That process is gone into detail here: The Locksmith: Utilizing Bioengineered Yeast and High Bound Thiol Precersour Hops and Phantasm Powder to Thiol Drive Beer - Scott Janish but I'm wondering if there's anything else I'm missing. It's interesting the IBUs were found to be lower in their trials. Maybe this is why first wort hopping has been popular/regarded as pleasant/smoother, that the beers are just a bit less bitter?


Also it's great to see so many people loving Simcoe! I've always found it to be an extremely tasty hop. My favorite homebrew (of mine) was a West Coast IPA with Citra, Simcoe, and Amarillo.


This weekend's brew:
The seller tossed in a Sierra Nevada Pale Ale clone kit with the used Foundry. I think my first brew on the Foundry started pretty good! I hit 68% efficiency and It was much easier to step mash with the Foundry than with a kettle straddling two stove burners! I didn't make it to the part of this thread where trub gets discussed in so much detail, so probably didn't do as good a job keeping it out as I will next brew... It's fermenting now and smells great. I'm deviating from the original kit by adding some falconer's flight and centennial to the dry hop. I'll use this beer to practice soft crash before tossing the dry hops in. We'll see what it ends up looking like!


How are people enjoying the Cryo Pop? I've had some beers with it by Magnanimous out of Tampa and each time it's reminded me of very sabro-forward beers.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

Wow, this thread is amazing! I've been brewing on/off for a long time, brewing very casually in NYC when I had limited space and access to Other Half, Grimm, Equilibrium, Threes, and an occasional road trip for something further.

It's awesome how far hop analysis has come. I think Scott Janish was only starting to talk about sensory notes when I last looked into this! Thanks for all of the linked articles along the way.

I moved from the northeast to Florida a year ago and am ready to brew that beautiful hazy ipa that's not accessible down here! Invasive species is probably the closest with Tripping Animals and Woven Water behind them.

I'm working my way through the thread (am on page 366 as I find time to catch up at night) and love all of the good knowledge. Also so many +1s from the first 300 pages, but especially to Citra + Nelson being a great hop combo and biotransformation being aggressively mismarketed.

@Noob_Brewer Let me know if you've got any anvil foundry tips for boosting efficiency! I found a good deal on a used 10.5 and am hopefully doing my first brew on it this weekend.

Cheers all!

@rnewt if you go to the anvil foundry thread you will see lots of good stuff there. In short, for me, I used to use a bag in the malt pipe and that worked great as I could crush finer and have better efficiency. I have since a while ago ditched the malt pipe in favor of the bag and an added false bottom. In general, my mash/lauter efficiencies are in the mid 70s to low 80s range depending on the beer. For NEIPAs I'm in the mid-to-high 70s consistently. Cheers and welcome to the forum!

 

[tracer bullet]

@rnewt if you go to the anvil foundry thread you will see lots of good stuff there. In short, for me, I used to use a bag in the malt pipe and that worked great as I could crush finer and have better efficiency. I have since a while ago ditched the malt pipe in favor of the bag and an added false bottom. In general, my mash/lauter efficiencies are in the mid 70s to low 80s range depending on the beer. For NEIPAs I'm in the mid-to-high 70s consistently. Cheers and welcome to the forum!

Same for me. Except at the end switch NEIPA's to stouts (but I bet they are nearly identical in lbs grain used, so probably still the same). Next brew will however be a NEIPA. But, yeah, I fully expect low 70% easily.

68% isn't a bad start, and is something to run with and not worry about. Nice job on the maiden voyage!

 

[rnewt]

@rnewt if you go to the anvil foundry thread you will see lots of good stuff there. In short, for me, I used to use a bag in the malt pipe and that worked great as I could crush finer and have better efficiency. I have since a while ago ditched the malt pipe in favor of the bag and an added false bottom. In general, my mash/lauter efficiencies are in the mid 70s to low 80s range depending on the beer. For NEIPAs I'm in the mid-to-high 70s consistently. Cheers and welcome to the forum!

Same for me. Except at the end switch NEIPA's to stouts (but I bet they are nearly identical in lbs grain used, so probably still the same). Next brew will however be a NEIPA. But, yeah, I fully expect low 70% easily.

68% isn't a bad start, and is something to run with and not worry about. Nice job on the maiden voyage!

Thanks. I'll definitely poke through that thread; its 50 pages won't keep me quite as busy as this one did!

I think I was a little worried after reading some reddit horror story where a user posted 30% efficiency on their first brew. I used some tips I saw in this thread like using the collar for the 6.5 in the malt pipe (have we since abandoned that?) The seller threw in a sturdy bag to use so I did bag + pipe.

"Low 70% easy" is exciting given we're more limited in terms of how much grain we can use and having limited ways to expand capacity. Any experience tossing some extract in to boost body?

 

[tracer bullet]

I use DME's to bump my gravities on occasion, sometimes if I came up a little shorter than expected and also intentionally at times i.e. for a heavier stout. Works just fine to replace some % base malt with it. That said, for NEIPA, you may want to stick with the more true ingredients (real grain). I wouldn't' think you'd have so much grain that you'll start to worry about it, you'd have to go to 10% or more ABV to even blink an eye at the Anvil capacity. Just stick with grain.

This being an NEIPA thread, I'd say post up your Anvil questions in the Anvil thread so we don't take these guys off topic.

 

[ihavenonickname]

Back to mash steps for neipa.... @couchsending @Noob_Brewer

I'm interested in using a step mash appropriate for a NEIPA that would help give a full body, mouthfeel but also help me get better efficiency/full conversion. Most write ups out there that talk about step mashing seems to emphasize using the steps to get maximum fermentability but that's not my aim here.
(for reference: The Science of Step Mashing - Brew Your Own
Step Mash Your Way to a Dry Finish)

I feel pretty comfortable with predicting FG based on a single infusion temp (ie 148 yields low fg, 155 yields higher fg) but it seems too complex to predict FG when using a multi step mash. Based on come anecdotal recommendations I'm thinking of trying:

148 for 30 minutes
158 for 20 minuts
168 for 10 minutes

I'm looking to start at 1.075 and finish at 1.016 - 1.018 or so using verdant IPA yeast, which is what I would expect if I just mashed single infusion at 154. So if it wasn't clear I'm trying to use a step protocol that will build BODY and not just fermentability.

Looking for a sanity check here OR does anyone have a step mash program they have had good luck with for NEIPA? and what was your OG/FG or attenuation?

 

[balrog]

Related, back in my hometown in upstate NY there's a brewery that brews a pumpkin ale every fall. They dump several baked pumpkin pies into the mash.

They do things interestingly in upstate NY

 

[aaronm13]

Back to mash steps for neipa.... @couchsending @Noob_Brewer

I'm interested in using a step mash appropriate for a NEIPA that would help give a full body, mouthfeel but also help me get better efficiency/full conversion. Most write ups out there that talk about step mashing seems to emphasize using the steps to get maximum fermentability but that's not my aim here.
(for reference: The Science of Step Mashing - Brew Your Own
Step Mash Your Way to a Dry Finish)

I feel pretty comfortable with predicting FG based on a single infusion temp (ie 148 yields low fg, 155 yields higher fg) but it seems too complex to predict FG when using a multi step mash. Based on come anecdotal recommendations I'm thinking of trying:

148 for 30 minutes
158 for 20 minuts
168 for 10 minutes

I'm looking to start at 1.075 and finish at 1.016 - 1.018 or so using verdant IPA yeast, which is what I would expect if I just mashed single infusion at 154. So if it wasn't clear I'm trying to use a step protocol that will build BODY and not just fermentability.

Looking for a sanity check here OR does anyone have a step mash program they have had good luck with for NEIPA? and what was your OG/FG or attenuation?

I've done a step mash on my last two brews with mixed results. The steps are
147 for 40 minutes
156 for 40 minutes
162 for 20 minutes
167 Mash out.

First brew was on a DIPA and it worked out great. Finally broke the 1.020 point with Verdant/LA3 that I never could. This finished at 1.018 and is perfect. The next was supposed to be a 6.5% but got some over attenuation and finished at 1.012. The body on this is a bit thin and lacking some sweetness.

Both brews were with Verdant and both had a small dry hop towards the tail end of fermentation so possibly got some hop creep. So my very unscientific conclusion is that going forward I will probably use a step mash on DIPAs and my upcoming attempt at a TIPA again but for a regular abv IPA I think a single infusion mash will be ok.

I'm going pretty heavy now on oats in my grain bill lately, and the long step mash really does help with conversion, again more of a help with higher ABV beers.

 

[murphyslaw]

I've been using a Hockhurz for my last few. 144/160 then mash out. I think I do 30min and 45min respectively, but will probably try extending the beta rest 144 to help get my OG down a bit.

The only real difference I noticed on my NEIPAs was improved foam from the 160 step.

Until recently I had only used it on a hefe and loved the results. But I'm going through a phase now where I use it on everything. NEIPA, Cold IPA, Gose, American Wheat....

 

[Noob_Brewer]

I've done a step mash on my last two brews with mixed results. The steps are
147 for 40 minutes
156 for 40 minutes
162 for 20 minutes
167 Mash out.

First brew was on a DIPA and it worked out great. Finally broke the 1.020 point with Verdant/LA3 that I never could. This finished at 1.018 and is perfect. The next was supposed to be a 6.5% but got some over attenuation and finished at 1.012. The body on this is a bit thin and lacking some sweetness.

Both brews were with Verdant and both had a small dry hop towards the tail end of fermentation so possibly got some hop creep. So my very unscientific conclusion is that going forward I will probably use a step mash on DIPAs and my upcoming attempt at a TIPA again but for a regular abv IPA I think a single infusion mash will be ok.

I'm going pretty heavy now on oats in my grain bill lately, and the long step mash really does help with conversion, again more of a help with higher ABV beers.

I think this is a bit of a lost art to use step mashing to build body or a more fermentable wort. I do think its an important aspect for body in NEIPAs as well. Like @murphyslaw Ive been doing variations of the Hockhurz method. I did a few with the mid 150 step but have ditched it. I am pretty much going with 148-150 for 30minutes and then 160 for 30minutes and then 168-170 for mashout. Not sure that mashout is really needed but I do it anyways lol. Because my ramp time is a bit slow (anvil foundry can't recirculate too fast) it takes about 15minutes to get to stable 160. Essentially Im doing about a 90minute mash with ramp times and mashout time built in. I still may shorten my Beta-amylase phase a bit simply because conversion is occurring pretty fast. I do measure my conversion % too along the way. Ive seen this graph ALL over the internet and there are multiple sources to it so not sure where the original came from as I still don't understand the time component in the title BUT I still refer to it when determining mash step temps. At 148-150F, Beta enzymes are about 75-85% active, with Alpha in the ~10% range. then at 160F, beta is ~10% while alpha enzyme is ~90% (and dextrinsare highest). SO thats my rationale for the temps Im using.

AN added anecdotal note: on my single hop NEIPA I brewed a while back (75% 2 row, 10% malted oats, 10% white wheat, 5% carafoam): for reasons unknown to me I missed my dough in temp and it rested at 153 instead of my planned 149. I just rolled with it and did a step at 160 after the first step. It had more body than I was ever expecting and thats when I looked back at my notes and noticed my missed dough in temp. My AA was still solid for a 6.5% beer and it landed at 1.015. SO there's that too lol.

 

[Dgallo]

@ihavenonickname

I’ll also add that one of the most overlooked component of mouthfeel and body is the carb level of the beer. Elevated carb levels make a beer come off thinner and drier. I target about 2.4/2.5 vols

 

[tracer bullet]

At 148-150F, Beta enzymes are about 75-85% active, with Alpha in the ~10% range. then at 160F, beta is ~10% while alpha enzyme is ~90% (and dextrinsare highest). SO thats my rationale for the temps Im using.

So.... I'm not arguing or being contrary, but it seems like these temps would give you a high starting gravity, and tons of fermentables for a low final gravity, and a "thinner" beer, subjectively speaking? This strikes me as backwards from enhancing body. I really don't know but it doesn't feel right.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

So.... I'm not arguing or being contrary, but it seems like these temps would give you a high starting gravity, and tons of fermentables for a low final gravity, and a "thinner" beer, subjectively speaking? This strikes me as backwards from enhancing body. I really don't know but it doesn't feel right.

So, If Im not mistaken, starting gravity (OG) really depends on the full potential of the grains used and assumes that you achieve 100% conversion in the mash. I never thought that mash temp times could affect starting gravity (again assuming that you get 100% conversion in any given recipe). So I think the trick is to get your mash temp up to the Alpha - Amylase optimal range BEFORE 100% conversion is complete. Obviously if you did a single infusion at 148 for the duration (where alpha activity and remaining dextrin are low) you would end up with a highly fermentable and drier beer with a lower FG. So in my own anecdotal experience by the time I hit the 160F step, the mash is already 70-80% converted which I think is OK. The 160F step then helps with body by leaving more unfermentable sugars for the remaining part of the conversion. Its been working well for me tbh though and I can predict my FG quite well (I am typically targeting 1.014-1.016 for FG). I then manipulate the mash temps/times a little depending on what yeast I am using as well. If Im using verdant IPA (which I like a lot), I'll leave it at the beta range for a little longer since the AA of the yeast is a little lower than say for example A24 Dry Hop. With A24, I'll leave the mash at 148-150 a little less before ramping up to 160F because A24 is a total beast. In both of these yeasts I'll target 1.014-1.016 for FG regardless of the starting gravity.

EDIT: I'll also add that I do think the 160F step is critical to helping with Foam retention which also helps with the perception of body/mouthfeel as well.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

A little while back I mashed in a few degrees high as well, still not sure why it came in high. But in any case I noticed the same thing. I have yet to do a step mash but sounds like it's in my near future. I'll probably start at 148 for about 20 minutes then raise to 160 .. I'm curious to see the affect on not only body/mouthfeel but also foam and head retention. I think a good hot break and cold break are important contributors to foam and head retention but if this helps too I'm all in. I'll be brewing my next batch in a week. Submitting it to a competition that I won 2nd in regionals in July and states are in October.

 

[Clyde McCoy]

New NZ Freestyle hop tentatively named “Peacharine.” Quite peachy indeed, reminds me a bit of Nectaron

 

[HopsAreGood]

View attachment 777475

New NZ Freestyle hop tentatively named “Peacharine.” Quite peachy indeed, reminds me a bit of Nectaron

Cellarmaker?

 

[Dgallo]

Cellarmaker?

If I recall correctly, only 20 or so US breweries got access to that hop. I know Fiden’s did. To me it came off like a nelson with peach/stone fruit undertones. It’s solid and I’m interested to see what the name of this hop will be. On the freestyle bags it literally says “Codename: Peacharine”. Which makes this beer name even better lol

 

[rnewt]

So.... I'm not arguing or being contrary, but it seems like these temps would give you a high starting gravity, and tons of fermentables for a low final gravity, and a "thinner" beer, subjectively speaking? This strikes me as backwards from enhancing body. I really don't know but it doesn't feel right.

Ha, I feel like there have always been contradictions in the style ever since we moved away from the crystal malt IPAs of yore to have a dryer beer but then added oats to put sweetness and body back in. The advantage of homebrewing is being able to solve that optimization problem to our own taste!

@ihavenonickname

I’ll also add that one of the most overlooked component of mouthfeel and body is the carb level of the beer. Elevated carb levels make a beer come off thinner and drier. I target about 2.4/2.5 vols

Grimm has pointed out that their IPAs are carbed a bit lower than is typical.