New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

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Are you adding any hops in the boil? Or are you doing only WP/DH? I have found, for me, that I get a lot more flavor when adding hops into the boil. I’m talking 20, 15, 10, 5, etc....then WP/DH. Anytime I exclude these additions I absolutely notice that the resulting beer is more one dimensional and lacks in the flavor department.
I've only done that with one recipe, 1.5oz of Citra @5 minutes. With the other recipes I've done a small FWH or 60 min addition of Warrior and then everything else in WP/DH. Might have to try adding some late in the boil next time. Was going to try and brew the OP recommended combo of Citra/Mosaic/Galaxy at 3:2:1 ratio next time using Omega's Conan yeast and replacing Citra T90 with lupomax in dryhop.
 
I've only done that with one recipe, 1.5oz of Citra @5 minutes. With the other recipes I've done a small FWH or 60 min addition of Warrior and then everything else in WP/DH. Might have to try adding some late in the boil next time. Was going to try and brew the OP recommended combo of Citra/Mosaic/Galaxy at 3:2:1 ratio next time using Omega's Conan yeast and replacing Citra T90 with lupomax in dryhop.
Im a big fan of doing a 60min boil addition to about 20IBUs and then a 5 or 10min addition. Haven't really experimented with 20 and 15 min additions, but my approach is the 60min addition is for the IBUs and the 5 or 10 min additions and WP is for flavor. IMO, Ive learned a ton just buy tasting all hydrometer samples post fermentation and pre dry hop to give me an idea on how intense the hot side hops performed as well as the flavor profile I was shooting for. Even though the dry hop regimen will change the finished beer, it gives me an idea on how much flavor/aroma I can get hot side. Typically, Im really just shooting for a nice saturated type of flavor profile that Im trying to achieve and the hot side aroma is secondary.
 
Im a big fan of doing a 60min boil addition to about 20IBUs and then a 5 or 10min addition. Haven't really experimented with 20 and 15 min additions, but my approach is the 60min addition is for the IBUs and the 5 or 10 min additions and WP is for flavor. IMO, Ive learned a ton just buy tasting all hydrometer samples post fermentation and pre dry hop to give me an idea on how intense the hot side hops performed as well as the flavor profile I was shooting for. Even though the dry hop regimen will change the finished beer, it gives me an idea on how much flavor/aroma I can get hot side. Typically, Im really just shooting for a nice saturated type of flavor profile that Im trying to achieve and the hot side aroma is secondary.
Sounds like late boil additions would definitely be worth trying. Are you guys using the same hops in late boil as WP/DH? I always take a sample before dryhopping as well for the same reasons. With ispindel I can then see whether the beer experienced any hop creep during dryhopping without taking an additional sample.
 
Thanks man. Don’t get me wrong, if your able to splurge on stainless, go for it. I just can’t justify it with two little ones. But in the future when I actually can turn one half of the basement into a true home brewery, I’ll need the stainless to have that visual effect lol

I hear ya. I'd love a fancy stainless unitank, but it's too expensive and too large for my ferm chamber....and I'm not doing glycol.

I've settled on fermenting in the 6 gallon Torpedo kegs with CBDS. Wish I could dump trub/hops, but other than that, they're great.
 
I have been thinking a lot about this after I read the article. My assumption of point of this procedure is to periodically put the hop matter back into suspension so as to provide better hop utilization...is that correct? If so, I am curious if there are those in the homebrewing world that have conical fermenters performing a similar procedure? If so, I am keen to learn if this may be what helps to provide a much brighter overall hop presence in the upper echelon of commercial NEIPAs.
I was worried about the PET material itself. It should allow oxygen diffusion to some extend compared to a glass carboy or a stainless steel fermenter.
I was wondering the same thing. We kegged a NEIPA last night and it was slightly oxidized despite going through all the O2 handling best practices. I was thinking that it may have something to do with the PET Fermentasuaraus we have but likely not.

The hops didn't come through as much as we had hoped but it seemed to develop as we were drinking it. We have made about 6 NEIPAs now and this was the first one that didn't have so much hop character and aroma.

DIPA.JPG
 
Sounds like late boil additions would definitely be worth trying. Are you guys using the same hops in late boil as WP/DH? I always take a sample before dryhopping as well for the same reasons. With ispindel I can then see whether the beer experienced any hop creep during dryhopping without taking an additional sample.

I recently followed the hop schedule of a Vitamin Sea recipe in CB&B magazine. It’s more boil hops than I normally add in the boil and I have to say it has a great hop-saturated flavor. I upped my dry hop to 4oz of each:

1 oz (28 g) Citra [12% AA] at 20 minutes
1 oz (28 g) Cascade [5.5% AA] at 15 minutes
1 oz (28 g) Cascade [5.5% AA] at 10 minutes
3 oz (85 g) Citra [12% AA] at whirlpool, 15 minutes
3 oz (85 g) Cascade [5.5% AA] at whirlpool, 15 minutes
3 oz (85 g) Citra [12% AA] at dry hop for 4 days
3 oz (85 g) Cascade [5.5% AA] at dry hop for 4 days
 
I recently followed the hop schedule of a Vitamin Sea recipe in CB&B magazine. It’s more boil hops than I normally add in the boil and I have to say it has a great hop-saturated flavor. I upped my dry hop to 4oz of each:

1 oz (28 g) Citra [12% AA] at 20 minutes
1 oz (28 g) Cascade [5.5% AA] at 15 minutes
1 oz (28 g) Cascade [5.5% AA] at 10 minutes
3 oz (85 g) Citra [12% AA] at whirlpool, 15 minutes
3 oz (85 g) Cascade [5.5% AA] at whirlpool, 15 minutes
3 oz (85 g) Citra [12% AA] at dry hop for 4 days
3 oz (85 g) Cascade [5.5% AA] at dry hop for 4 days
I was actually going to point this out as well. For anyone who’s had IPAs from vitamin Sea, they know how good they are. I found it interesting that they do a 20, 15, 10, and then 6 ounce whirlpool and 6 ounce dry hop. That’s 9 ounces hot side and 6 ounce dry hop. A lot of these breweries nowadays are just pounding obscene amounts into the dry hop, but there’s absolutely something to having significant hot side additions as well.

When I first started brewing these beers all I did was whirlpool and dry hop because that’s what I read you were supposed to do. After brewing a bunch of batches that were OK, I read on here some people suggesting that boil hops can make a huge difference. Ever since the first time I tried them I noticed how big a difference they can make.

I’ve played around with 100% dry hopped beers, but pretty much every other time now I always use between 2 to 4 ounces between 20 minutes and flame out. One thing I would add is to not be afraid of calculated IBUs within that last 15 to 20 minutes. To me they definitely do not come across the same way as calculated IBUs from a 60 minute addition.

The most recent beer I did had 1 ounce at 15, 1 ounce at 10, 1 ounce at five, and then a 3 ounce whirlpool and 6 ounce dry hop. Granted I did not utilize a 60 minute bittering addition, but I barely detect any bitterness at all from these additions. The flavor however is huge.
 
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I was actually going to point this out as well. For anyone who’s had IPAs from vitamin Sea, they know how good they are. I found it interesting that they do a 20, 15, 10, and then 6 ounce whirlpool and 6 ounce dry hop. That’s 9 ounces hot side and 6 ounce dry hop. A lot of these breweries nowadays are just pounding obscene amounts into the dry hop, but there’s absolutely something to having significant hot side additions as well.

When I first started brewing these beers all I did was whirlpool and dry hop because that’s what I read you were supposed to do. After brewing a bunch of batches that were OK, I read on here some people suggesting that boil hops can make a huge difference. Ever since the first time I tried them I noticed how big a difference they can make.

I’ve played around with 100% dry hopped beers, but pretty much every other time now I always use between 2 to 4 ounces between 20 minutes and flame out. One thing I would add is to not be afraid of calculated IBUs within that last 15 to 20 minutes. To me they definitely do not come across the same way as calculated IBUs from a 60 minute addition.

The most recent beer I did had 1 ounce at 15, 1 ounce at 10, 1 ounce at five, and then a 3 ounce whirlpool and 6 ounce dry hop. Granted I did not utilize a 60 minute bittering addition, but I barely detect any bitterness at all from these additions. The flavor however is huge.
Agreed. I strongly believe in;
- 20-30% in boil
- 30-40% in whirlpool
- 40-50% in dryhop
(% of total hop usage)
 
I was actually going to point this out as well. For anyone who’s had IPAs from vitamin Sea, they know how good they are. I found it interesting that they do a 20, 15, 10, and then 6 ounce whirlpool and 6 ounce dry hop. That’s 9 ounces hot side and 6 ounce dry hop. A lot of these breweries nowadays are just pounding obscene amounts into the dry hop, but there’s absolutely something to having significant hot side additions as well.

When I first started brewing these beers all I did was whirlpool and dry hop because that’s what I read you were supposed to do. After brewing a bunch of batches that were OK, I read on here some people suggesting that boil hops can make a huge difference. Ever since the first time I tried them I noticed how big a difference they can make.

I’ve played around with 100% dry hopped beers, but pretty much every other time now I always use between 2 to 4 ounces between 20 minutes and flame out. One thing I would add is to not be afraid of calculated IBUs within that last 15 to 20 minutes. To me they definitely do not come across the same way as calculated IBUs from a 60 minute addition.

The most recent beer I did had 1 ounce at 15, 1 ounce at 10, 1 ounce at five, and then a 3 ounce whirlpool and 6 ounce dry hop. Granted I did not utilize a 60 minute bittering addition, but I barely detect any bitterness at all from these additions. The flavor however is huge.
Just curious here as I just might have to try this out without the 60min addition and just have later additions. Is there a certain IBU/SG you shoot for when hopping this way? I ask because the previous post using citra and cascade are relatively low AA, at least cascade is. Also @HopsAreGood if you are saying the "type" of bitterness is different when adding < 20minutes, this would seem to me that is where the whole IBU/SG falls apart. IBUs are perplexing to me anyways. When I do a 60minute and a 5 or 10minute addition I typically shoot for about 37IBUs (beersmith calcs) and my IBU/SG ratio is typically around 0.530ish. Almost seems that 60min/5min routines compared to 20/15/10/5 minute boil routines are really comparing apples to oranges here as the IBUs are not created equal. Thoughts?
 
When I first started brewing these beers all I did was whirlpool and dry hop because that’s what I read you were supposed to do. After brewing a bunch of batches that were OK, I read on here some people suggesting that boil hops can make a huge difference. Ever since the first time I tried them I noticed how big a difference they can make.

I’ve played around with 100% dry hopped beers, but pretty much every other time now I always use between 2 to 4 ounces between 20 minutes and flame out. One thing I would add is to not be afraid of calculated IBUs within that last 15 to 20 minutes. To me they definitely do not come across the same way as calculated IBUs from a 60 minute addition.

Interesting conversation here imho. When I 1st discovered this style & tried to brew it, I too was strict on these 'rules' of how to make a neipa - lots of wheat/oats, chloride>>>sulfate, pinch of boil hops, etc. Then I had a Pseudo Sue, made the clone & was surprised that so many late boil hops were included. At first I thought it was just citra that worked this way. Then I had & brewed Trillium beers w/ 3-4oz of late boil columbus. Now I'm wondering about the limit of boil hops before you get much of any perceived bitterness. It seems like yeast choice & typical dry hopping rates will usually greatly diminish perceived bitterness.

I recently made a 5% pale ale w/ all mosaic, 45' & 20' additions, no FO/WP 68 theoretical IBUs, equal chloride/sulfate water profile & Verdant yeast. Absolutely 0 perceived bitterness to my palate. I think there is quite a bit more room to play within the neipa style than many, including myself, think/thought.
 
Just curious here as I just might have to try this out without the 60min addition and just have later additions. Is there a certain IBU/SG you shoot for when hopping this way? I ask because the previous post using citra and cascade are relatively low AA, at least cascade is. Also @HopsAreGood if you are saying the "type" of bitterness is different when adding < 20minutes, this would seem to me that is where the whole IBU/SG falls apart. IBUs are perplexing to me anyways. When I do a 60minute and a 5 or 10minute addition I typically shoot for about 37IBUs (beersmith calcs) and my IBU/SG ratio is typically around 0.530ish. Almost seems that 60min/5min routines compared to 20/15/10/5 minute boil routines are really comparing apples to oranges here as the IBUs are not created equal. Thoughts?
I’ve never really paid attention to IBU /SG. That’s not to say that it’s not a good way to construct beers but I’ve just never really done it. I think most beers that I make end up somewhere between 30 to 60 calculated IBUs.

I used to always do a 60 minute boil and use about an ounce of Columbus or warrior for the 60 minute addition. If I remember correctly it would typically be around 35, And then I might use a little tiny bit at 5 and then whirlpool and dry hop. For me, that 60 minute addition gave a little bit more of an assertive bitterness, and not so much in the flavor department, which some like and some don’t. I don’t love it or hate it, but truth be told… A dirty little secret of mine is that I haven’t done a full 60 minute boil in probably a few years.

I typically boil for only 20 minutes, because I really don’t see the need to boil for 60 minutes unless I specifically want a 60 minute addition. Ever since switching to this I have enjoyed the results just as much if not better than what I used to do. It’s hard for me to verbalize how IBUs from inside the 20 minutes are different than that of a 60, but they just seem much softer in a way that I prefer.

I agree that IBUs in general are kind of perplexing, and to be honest I don’t really pay THAT much attention to them.
 
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I think IBU's are great for some things but kind of fall apart for IPA recipe formulation.

Not sure if it is to style but I like a reasonable amount of bittering hops, a big whirlpool addition, and a moderate dry hop. For 5 gallons that probably looks like 1-2 oz of high AA hops between 20-60 minutes, maybe an oz or 2 at 5-10 minutes, 4-8 ozes @ flameout, and 3-4 oz dry hop.

My beers just always tasted not great when I used really big dry hop additions.
 
I was actually going to point this out as well. For anyone who’s had IPAs from vitamin Sea, they know how good they are. I found it interesting that they do a 20, 15, 10, and then 6 ounce whirlpool and 6 ounce dry hop. That’s 9 ounces hot side and 6 ounce dry hop. A lot of these breweries nowadays are just pounding obscene amounts into the dry hop, but there’s absolutely something to having significant hot side additions as well.

When I first started brewing these beers all I did was whirlpool and dry hop because that’s what I read you were supposed to do. After brewing a bunch of batches that were OK, I read on here some people suggesting that boil hops can make a huge difference. Ever since the first time I tried them I noticed how big a difference they can make.

I’ve played around with 100% dry hopped beers, but pretty much every other time now I always use between 2 to 4 ounces between 20 minutes and flame out. One thing I would add is to not be afraid of calculated IBUs within that last 15 to 20 minutes. To me they definitely do not come across the same way as calculated IBUs from a 60 minute addition.

The most recent beer I did had 1 ounce at 15, 1 ounce at 10, 1 ounce at five, and then a 3 ounce whirlpool and 6 ounce dry hop. Granted I did not utilize a 60 minute bittering addition, but I barely detect any bitterness at all from these additions. The flavor however is huge.
Agree totally with this. Used to do all the things we were supposed to do with this style as that's what I read but since I've started adding a few ounces at 10 and 5 minutes it's taken my beers to the next level. IBU calculations do jump up at bit in Beersmith but does not translate to the finished beer. I usually try and keep the ibu's under 40 but even at that the bitterness is so smooth. Must try an earlier addition around 20 minutes next time. Never bother with a 60 minute bittering addition either.
 
Agree totally with this. Used to do all the things we were supposed to do with this style as that's what I read but since I've started adding a few ounces at 10 and 5 minutes it's taken my beers to the next level. IBU calculations do jump up at bit in Beersmith but does not translate to the finished beer. I usually try and keep the ibu's under 40 but even at that the bitterness is so smooth. Must try an earlier addition around 20 minutes next time. Never bother with a 60 minute bittering addition either.

I would be interested in hearing people’s theoretical IBUs from Beersmith on their favorite hb neipas. As a relatively new brewer, I think I’ve been too worried about the number spit out by the program.
 
I would be interested in hearing people’s theoretical IBUs from Beersmith on their favorite hb neipas. As a relatively new brewer, I think I’ve been too worried about the number spit out by the program.
My latest is a 8% DIPA with Beersmith saying 37 IBUs but has no bitterness at all. Either that or I'm just immune at this stage.
 
My latest is a 8% DIPA with Beersmith saying 37 IBUs but has no bitterness at all. Either that or I'm just immune at this stage.
Interesting. I have targeted in the 37IBU range (Beersmith calcs) for my NEIPAs from 6.5-7.5% range and have it a little higher for 8% + with about 44-45IBU and feel that Ive always gotten a nice assertive bitterness thats balanced well. But again, Ive always gone with a 60minute bittering addition so perhaps as @HopsAreGood stated above, perhaps the 60minute has a more assertive bitterness. 🤔
 
So I think that Im going to try to go for a "no 60min addition" and employ the strategy that others have talked about here with later additions (but more hops) in the boil. My "standard" approach is to have ~6oz hot side with 5oz in the WP and 1oz in the boil: 0.5oz 60minute charge followed by 0.5oz at 5 or 10 minutes. So Im going to try this instead:

Boil: 15minute (0.5oz), 10minute (0.5oz), 5minute (1.0oz) = 2.0oz total in the boil.
WP: 1.0oz at 45minute, 1.5oz at 30 minute, and 1.5oz at 15minutes = 4oz total in WP @ 150.
Total Beersmith IBUs = 44.3

So I compared this approach in beersmith with what I would normally do (1.0oz in boil & 5oz in WP @ 150) and get 37.8IBUs. So not sure I would ever be able to notice a small difference in 44 vs 37 IBUs, but hopefully I will notice better flavor pre-dry hop when I check my gravity. Essentially Im just shifting 1oz from my whirlpool to the boil kettle. If I like what I get, might push the boil vs whirlpool distribution further in favor of boil kettle. Not ready to go with 3oz in boil and 3oz in WP yet! baby steps!

FWIW, Ive never done a NEIPA without any boil hops and WP and dry hop only. Never really appealed to me as, like many here, like to have some bitterness to keep the beer balanced.
 
So I think that Im going to try to go for a "no 60min addition" and employ the strategy that others have talked about here with later additions (but more hops) in the boil. My "standard" approach is to have ~6oz hot side with 5oz in the WP and 1oz in the boil: 0.5oz 60minute charge followed by 0.5oz at 5 or 10 minutes. So Im going to try this instead:

Boil: 15minute (0.5oz), 10minute (0.5oz), 5minute (1.0oz) = 2.0oz total in the boil.
WP: 1.0oz at 45minute, 1.5oz at 30 minute, and 1.5oz at 15minutes = 4oz total in WP @ 150.
Total Beersmith IBUs = 44.3

So I compared this approach in beersmith with what I would normally do (1.0oz in boil & 5oz in WP @ 150) and get 37.8IBUs. So not sure I would ever be able to notice a small difference in 44 vs 37 IBUs, but hopefully I will notice better flavor pre-dry hop when I check my gravity. Essentially Im just shifting 1oz from my whirlpool to the boil kettle. If I like what I get, might push the boil vs whirlpool distribution further in favor of boil kettle. Not ready to go with 3oz in boil and 3oz in WP yet! baby steps!

FWIW, Ive never done a NEIPA without any boil hops and WP and dry hop only. Never really appealed to me as, like many here, like to have some bitterness to keep the beer balanced.
Baby steps are fine and good, but I doubt you’ll notice much difference. Don’t get so hung up on the calculated IBUs. If you’re willing to forgo the 60 minute addition, then just crush 3 to 4 ounces in that final 20 minutes and see what it does for you. I’ve done a couple of beers in the last few months where I completely skipped the whirlpool, and had 6 ounces within the last 15 minutes, and can barely even tell a difference. The flavor was phenomenal but in terms of bitterness it’s just so difficult to perceive much difference.

Also, staggering WP additions by approximately 10 degrees or whatever just seems like a waste of time. Can you honestly say that you notice some kind of difference doing this than say...just throwing the whole load in at 170?

There are so many ways to make good beers, and so many variables to come in to play, but if you’re trying to notice a difference in something you’ve been doing, then make it different rather than just slightly tweaking it the tiniest bit. Just my two cents.

I can assure you it won’t be a drain pour, or something undrinkable. You may even be surprised at how good it turns out.
 
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Baby steps are fine and good, but I doubt you’ll notice much difference. Don’t get so hung up on the calculated IBUs. If you’re willing to forgo the 60 minute addition, then just crush 3 to 4 ounces in that final 20 minutes and see what it does for you. I’ve done a couple of beers in the last few months where I completely skipped the whirlpool, and had 6 ounces within the last 15 minutes, and can barely even tell a difference. The flavor was phenomenal but in terms of bitterness it’s just so difficult to perceive much difference.

Also, staggering WP additions by approximately 10 degrees or whatever just seems like a waste of time. Can you honestly say that you notice some kind of difference doing this than say...just throwing the whole load in at 170?

There are so many ways to make good beers, and so many variables to come in to play, but if you’re trying to notice a difference in something you’ve been doing, then make it different rather than just slightly tweaking it the tiniest bit. Just my two cents.

I can assure you it won’t be a drain pour, or something undrinkable. You may even be surprised at how good it turns out.

Appreciate the comments/input as always! Honestly Im not too hung up on IBUs. Out of all the NEIPAs Ive brewed in the 6-8%ABV range the range of calculated IBUs from beersmith has been from 35-70. Regardless of what those numbers actually mean, I just settled onto the lower range as a matter of personal preference but Ive always just done the 60min/5min style, and not just solely later additions. Regarding the idea of just going for it relating to adding 3-4 ounces in the boil, my personal preference/brewing style is incremental "baby steps" in just about everything I do. I totally agree that I know/doubt I won't see a difference in perceived IBU based on the calculated IBU difference, but this is just my approach. This beer I will be brewing in particular is a different hop combo for me anyways, so I won't get too crazy. If I see/detect any difference in flavor intensity then great (which is certainly questionable at best), If I don't, I'll shift another ounce from WP to boil for the next NEIPA. Im not resistant to change at all, but just prefer to be more incremental in stepping towards it.

Regarding the WP additions, in my earlier brews, I experimented with temperature/duration quite a bit. Ive settled on being in the 150-160 degree range for the entire WP duration (Im electric so I can keep it steady) which I recently shortened from 60min to 45. I have no clue though why I still stagger the additions since the temp is the same, only contact time changes. But I got what I thought of are great hop flavor results from this staggered approach and just haven't changed it yet lol.

FWIW: I completely respect your approach to brewing and have enjoyed reading your posts in how you've experimented with different hopping rates/timing/etc or dry yeast mixing methods. Im just more incremental baby steps in everything I do and happy to do it that way, even if it means change is a little slower lol. In the end, its all beer and generally pretty decent beer at that!

Cheers!
 
Appreciate the comments/input as always! Honestly Im not too hung up on IBUs. Out of all the NEIPAs Ive brewed in the 6-8%ABV range the range of calculated IBUs from beersmith has been from 35-70. Regardless of what those numbers actually mean, I just settled onto the lower range as a matter of personal preference but Ive always just done the 60min/5min style, and not just solely later additions. Regarding the idea of just going for it relating to adding 3-4 ounces in the boil, my personal preference/brewing style is incremental "baby steps" in just about everything I do. I totally agree that I know/doubt I won't see a difference in perceived IBU based on the calculated IBU difference, but this is just my approach. This beer I will be brewing in particular is a different hop combo for me anyways, so I won't get too crazy. If I see/detect any difference in flavor intensity then great (which is certainly questionable at best), If I don't, I'll shift another ounce from WP to boil for the next NEIPA. Im not resistant to change at all, but just prefer to be more incremental in stepping towards it.

Regarding the WP additions, in my earlier brews, I experimented with temperature/duration quite a bit. Ive settled on being in the 150-160 degree range for the entire WP duration (Im electric so I can keep it steady) which I recently shortened from 60min to 45. I have no clue though why I still stagger the additions since the temp is the same, only contact time changes. But I got what I thought of are great hop flavor results from this staggered approach and just haven't changed it yet lol.

FWIW: I completely respect your approach to brewing and have enjoyed reading your posts in how you've experimented with different hopping rates/timing/etc or dry yeast mixing methods. Im just more incremental baby steps in everything I do and happy to do it that way, even if it means change is a little slower lol. In the end, its all beer and generally pretty decent beer at that!

Cheers!
Well said, and I couldn’t agree more. Also, I hope that post didn’t come off as too aggressive...I just re-read it and can see how it may have. Good luck on the next brew! Looking forward to hearing how it turns out!
 
Here's my $0.02 on hop bitterness. All of your hop additions need to line up with your mash chemistry and FG. You can take all sorts of bittering additions, but then if you ferment with LAIII and have 150+ ppm of CaCl and <100 ppm of SO4, you're going to make much more of a softer beer. However, if you use US-05 yeast, <100 ppm of CaCl and 200ppm+ SO4, you're definitely going to make a beer with a more assertive bitterness.

I initially struggled to make west coast IPA's just because I had my water chemistry wrong. I was adding 60-70 IBU's, but CaCl was always higher so the beers were very "soft" and I was using low-attenuating English yeast as well. Eventually ramping up SO4 and experimenting with yeasts, I was able to figure it out, but my experience showed me a ton about how to achieve and not to achieve bitterness.
 
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I think if you drink a ton of IPAs, you'd be surprised how bitter of a beer you can drink now with no issues. I made a what would be considered a very bitter IPA recently, and it doesn't really come across as that bitter to me. Stop drinking IPA for 3-4 weeks and come back and taste it and it would probably seem insanely bitter.
 
I’ve done a couple of beers in the last few months where I completely skipped the whirlpool, and had 6 ounces within the last 15 minutes, and can barely even tell a difference. The flavor was phenomenal but in terms of bitterness it’s just so difficult to perceive much difference.
This is really interesting and would make for a shorter brew day which is always good. Might give this a shot. I love the extra dimension late hopping adds to a beer.
 
I brew mostly IPAs and I’ve shifted to an east meets west IPA w 10-15% golden naked oats/white wheat malt and moderate bitterness around 70IBUs. I do like some bitterness as long as it’s balanced and has a smooth finish and I don’t always want a thick mouthfeel like you get with some NEIPAs. I moved away from a 2:1 Cl:SO4 ratio to a more balanced 150ppm for each, Ca, Cl, and SO4 and like the results so far. I used to do a 60 min bittering addition but found that I was getting quite a bit of bitterness from my DH additions so I moved to a small FWH addition and then to just a WP addition in a few no boil IPAs that turned out well. After reading Janish’s book I added in a 20 min boil addition with half of my hot side hops (3oz for 6G) which is kind of like a flame out addition since my boil temp is 201F at 6200’. The other 3oz is a single WP addition at 180F for 50 min. I used to stage WP hop additions at 140-150F but I find I get better results at 180F. The biggest improvement with my IPAs came when I started triple dry hopping using about 1:1 cryo:T90 pellets and doing a short, cool DDH, TDH for 24 hrs at 56F. I use 10-13oz pellet equivalents of cryo/T90 for dry hopping and do not get hop burn anymore. The last keg DH is usually 1oz cryo and 2oz T90 pellets using a CDS floating filter and it really adds a boost of hop aroma that lasts until the keg kicks.
 
The biggest improvement with my IPAs came when I started triple dry hopping using about 1:1 cryo:T90 pellets and doing a short, cool DDH, TDH for 24 hrs at 56F.
Im not following this statement. if you are DHing three separate times, how are they all in the fermenter for less than 24 hrs? I see that your third DH is actually a keg hop correct? What about the other two? Im typically DHing twice at 58-60 in the fermenter. First DH is added at 58-60, then I add the second about 24 hrs later, and then I start the cold crash about 24hrs afterwards to 38. So, for me the length of time from the first DH to kegging is about 4 days since I like to leave it at cold crash temps a bit.
 
The first DH is at ferm temp at around day 4-5. That DH last stays at ferm temps for another 8 days. I then do a soft crash to 56F and DDH for 24 hrs at that temp and then cold crash at 32F for a week. I don’t have the ability to dump the hops via a dump valve and I prefer not to transfer to a secondary. After the cold crash I transfer to the CO2 purged keg with the last hop addition. That TDH sits at 56F for 24 hrs then goes into the keezer at 41F. The change I made was focusing on hop extraction at 56F for the second and third DH as well as using only cryo for the first DH to mitigate polyphenol extraction. I’ve never had “grassy” aroma extraction issues but I did experience some increased astringency from polyphenols when I did extended DDH/DDH at 68-70F. I’m sure I had some hop creep as well but for some reason I never experienced a diacetyl issue back then.
 
View attachment 721522I I haven’t shared too much lately but I’m pretty proud of this one. I’d definitely say it’s one of the best beers I’ve ever made, or at least one of my favorites.

Mash PH 5.25
Ca: 81
Mg: 13
Na: 57
Cl: 175
So4: 75
Mash temp: 152

70% 2-row
13.3% malted oats
13.3% white wheat
3.3% c-10

10 min: 1 oz Idaho 7, .75 oz mosaic Lupomax

5 min: 1 oz Idaho 7, .75 oz mosaic Lupomax

Flame out: 1 oz Idaho 7, .75 oz mosaic Lupomax (let sit for 5 minutes before starting the chiller)

No whirlpool at all.

8 grams Verdant IPA yeast
8 grams S-04

1.070 - 1.012 7.6% ABV

Pitched and held at 65 for the first 72 hours. All signs of active fermentation were done at this point. Raised to 67 for one day, then 69 for another, and then 71 for one more day. I then soft crashed to 60 for 48 hours.

I then transferred into the fermentation purged dry hop keg with 6 oz of Nectaron and 4 oz of Nelson. Stuck the dry hop keg immediately into my chest freezer which is held at 46 degrees. About 12 hours later I took the dry hop keg out and gently rolled it back and forth and turned it upside down a few times. I did this for about 5 minutes and then put it right back into the chest freezer for another 36 hours.

I then jumped the beer from the dry hop keg into a liquid purged serving keg, and carbonated it to 2.4 volumes. After 4 days in the serving keg it is absolutely glorious, and I’m sure it’s only going to get better as it continues to condition and mature.

The biggest thing I’m noticing is the insane level of “hop saturation.” Idaho 7 and Mosaic are apparently the two kings of survivable hop compounds that make it through fermentation and into the final beer, and I think this definitely showcases that. And then the combination of Nectaron and Nelson is just incredible. I’m getting tons of that beautiful, unique Nectaron character and in the background is that oh so familiar Nelsony thing going on.

As I said, very proud of this one.

Hey there @HopsAreGood I’m planning an upcoming brew & had a couple questions for you. Looks like you got about 82% AA on this brew; sound right? Have you blended lallemand new england with anything else? I’m planning a Trillium inspired beer & blending s04 with new england. Appreciate any feedback. 👍
 
Hey there @HopsAreGood I’m planning an upcoming brew & had a couple questions for you. Looks like you got about 82% AA on this brew; sound right? Have you blended lallemand new england with anything else? I’m planning a Trillium inspired beer & blending s04 with new england. Appreciate any feedback. 👍
Yup. I blended it with verdant a few times. Notes here:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/northeast-style-ipa.568046/post-9090293

Post 14,191. Sometimes these links are weird.
 
Haven’t brewed a NEIPA in a while but I’m going to end up doing a split 12 gallon batch(6gal into both fermenters)this week at some point

Water
Ca: 120
Mg: 16
Cl: 230
Na: 84
So4: 138
5.3 ph

grains
77% - 2row
20% - spelt
3% - honey malt

Mash
40 mins - 146
30 mins - 162
10 mins - mash out

yeast
Imperial a24 - dryhop
(0.65 million cell/ml/*p)

Hotside hops
Columbus t90 @ 60 & 10 - target 30ibu

whirlpool @ 170*f for 20 mins
Columbus LUPOMAX
Cascade LUPOMAX
1:1 ratio

Dryhop FV 1
Enigma
Nelson
Mosaic LUPOMAX
2:1:1
(Going for dank assorted berry profile

Dryhop FV 2
Bru-1 t90 & LUPOMAX
Vic Secret
Sabro LUPOMAX
3:1:1
(Going for pineapple/island tropical profile)

softcrashing and dryhoping at 56-58*f

Will follow up when in the keg
 
Haven’t brewed a NEIPA in a while but I’m going to end up doing a split 12 gallon batch(6gal into both fermenters)this week at some point

Water
Ca: 120
Mg: 16
Cl: 230
Na: 84
So4: 138
5.3 ph

grains
77% - 2row
20% - spelt
3% - honey malt

Mash
40 mins - 146
30 mins - 162
10 mins - mash out

yeast
Imperial a24 - dryhop
(0.65 million cell/ml/*p)

Hotside hops
Columbus t90 @ 60 & 10 - target 30ibu

whirlpool @ 170*f for 20 mins
Columbus LUPOMAX
Cascade LUPOMAX
1:1 ratio

Dryhop FV 1
Enigma
Nelson
Mosaic LUPOMAX
2:1:1
(Going for dank assorted berry profile

Dryhop FV 2
Bru-1 t90 & LUPOMAX
Vic Secret
Sabro LUPOMAX
3:1:1
(Going for pineapple/island tropical profile)

softcrashing and dryhoping at 56-58*f

Will follow up when in the keg
Looking forward to the update on this one. Both versions sound great. What's your OG. How many ounces will your whirlpool and dry hop be in both beers?
 
Looking forward to the update on this one. Both versions sound great. What's your OG. How many ounces will your whirlpool and dry hop be in both beers?
1.076is and hopping to finish at 1.014 for 8.2%

whirlpool will be with the 12gallons and will be getting 8 oz

each beer’s dryhop will be around 8 oz
 
1.076is and hopping to finish at 1.014 for 8.2%

whirlpool will be with the 12gallons and will be getting 8 oz

each beer’s dryhop will be around 8 oz
Thanks for that. So the low mash temperature gets you down to mid teen finish? Can't wait to see the end results anyway.
 
Thanks for that. So the low mash temperature gets you down to mid teen finish? Can't wait to see the end results anyway.
Im not sure I can answer your question as Ive done only a few 8.0% NEIPAs and they've typically used a little dextrose, but I routinely do step mashes with my NEIPAs with OGs ranging from 1.069-1.071 and that have FGs in the 1.012-1.014 range to get me to about 7.5% ABV. I typically do similar to what @Dgallo posted. Typically, I hit 148-150F for 30-40 minutes then ramp and hit 163 for another 30 minutes with a 10minute mashout at 168-170. All together with ramping times Im generally doing ~90-95 minute mashes. I get great attenuation having highly fermentable wort but with great mouthfeel and head retention. Im using the anvil foundry so stepping is easy once you know the system. Ive had a couple of beers under attenuate with regular infusion mashes held constant and FGs were 1.016-1.018 and I didn't enjoy those as much. they were good but I prefer a lower FG personally given the 7.5%ABV I tend to favor most. If you have the capacity to step mash, its definitely worth a try if you haven't done so already.
 
Im not sure I can answer your question as Ive done only a few 8.0% NEIPAs and they've typically used a little dextrose, but I routinely do step mashes with my NEIPAs with OGs ranging from 1.069-1.071 and that have FGs in the 1.012-1.014 range to get me to about 7.5% ABV. I typically do similar to what @Dgallo posted. Typically, I hit 148-150F for 30-40 minutes then ramp and hit 163 for another 30 minutes with a 10minute mashout at 168-170. All together with ramping times Im generally doing ~90-95 minute mashes. I get great attenuation having highly fermentable wort but with great mouthfeel and head retention. Im using the anvil foundry so stepping is easy once you know the system. Ive had a couple of beers under attenuate with regular infusion mashes held constant and FGs were 1.016-1.018 and I didn't enjoy those as much. they were good but I prefer a lower FG personally given the 7.5%ABV I tend to favor most. If you have the capacity to step mash, its definitely worth a try if you haven't done so already.
I have a Grainfather so will definitely do a step mash on my next brew to see if I can get down to 1.012-14 to compare against my usual 1.020
 
Whatz the spelt doin for you?

Haven’t brewed a NEIPA in a while but I’m going to end up doing a split 12 gallon batch(6gal into both fermenters)this week at some point

Water
Ca: 120
Mg: 16
Cl: 230
Na: 84
So4: 138
5.3 ph

grains
77% - 2row
20% - spelt
3% - honey malt

Mash
40 mins - 146
30 mins - 162
10 mins - mash out

yeast
Imperial a24 - dryhop
(0.65 million cell/ml/*p)

Hotside hops
Columbus t90 @ 60 & 10 - target 30ibu

whirlpool @ 170*f for 20 mins
Columbus LUPOMAX
Cascade LUPOMAX
1:1 ratio

Dryhop FV 1
Enigma
Nelson
Mosaic LUPOMAX
2:1:1
(Going for dank assorted berry profile

Dryhop FV 2
Bru-1 t90 & LUPOMAX
Vic Secret
Sabro LUPOMAX
3:1:1
(Going for pineapple/island tropical profile)

softcrashing and dryhoping at 56-58*f

Will follow up when in the keg



Whatz the spelt doin for you?
 
Whatz the spelt doin for you?





Whatz the spelt doin for you?
This will be the first time I’m using it. I read a few articles about using it for farmhouse ales because it’s very high in protein and helps maintain a soft pillow body even when fg reach the low 1.000s. That’s what first got me interested and then Janish discussed that the high protein content and good fermentability give a lot of body but still keep the beer soft instead of chewy. @Noob_Brewer just brewed a beer using it and IIRC his results were pretty consistent with that. I’ll certainly update this thread with my results
 
Whatz the spelt doin for you?





Whatz the spelt doin for you?
Yeah, I did one and kegged it just over 2 months ago and its still on tap. It was 75% 2 row, 20% spelt, 5% carafoam. Ive used both carafoam and 2 row before so I thought, why not. Ive had a couple of beers that listed Spelt as one of their malts and was intrigued by the purported "soft-pillowy" descriptions the online vendors speak of with this malt. I can say that this beer was the softest and most "pillowy" NEIPA that I have brewed to date. However, this was also the first NEIPA that I did not use oats. I am now thinking that oats (I usually use both flaked and malted in my NEIPAs) when used in higher quantities (~20%) may give a "heavier" mouthfeel, but I do like the slickness I perceive with oats. Nevertheless Ive really enjoyed the spelt NEIPA a lot. Mine is 7.6% abv and it has nice body/mouthfeel and its very soft and light (but not thin) on the palate. Very drinkable. None of my other NEIPAs Ive brewed has this same mouthfeel as they all have a combo of white wheat and oats. To give me a little more info, Im currently fermenting a NEIPA with 75% 2 row, 20% white wheat, and 5% carafoam. I want to see if this beer is just as light and pillowy as the spelt based beer. Even though this one has 2 different hops, I am hoping to tell a difference between the spelt and white wheat beers in terms of the mouthfeel and softness. We will see! I definitely recommend experimenting with spelt though for NEIPAs. This was my previous post on this beer in this thread: New England IPA - "Northeast" style IPA
 
This will be the first time I’m using it. I read a few articles about using it for farmhouse ales because it’s very high in protein and helps maintain a soft pillow body even when fg reach the low 1.000s. That’s what first got me interested and then Janish discussed that the high protein content and good fermentability give a lot of body but still keep the beer soft instead of chewy. @Noob_Brewer just brewed a beer using it and IIRC his results were pretty consistent with that. I’ll certainly update this thread with my results

My friend brews professionally and I believe he uses Spelt often for this reason. I've yet to use Spelt, but I'd be interested in your experience.

As for the high protein content, this has been my experience as I've experimented over different recipes I've created over the last two years. I would use high protein malts (~30-35% of the bill), mash low (148F) and I'd still get that soft, yet full body. Your beer sounds like it's going to turn out great.
 
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