New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[couchsending]

You can get the 1318/Juice strain to 80% attenuation no problem. Long mashes at 148 (if you can’t step), minimal unfermetnables, some dextrose, and lots of o2 This strain benefits from more o2 than other strains. If you struggle with lower attenuation with it I’d suggest trying to up your o2 levels. If you’re not using pure oxygen and a stone you’ll never get remotely close to achieving max attenuation with this strain.

 

[aaronm13]

You can get the 1318/Juice strain to 80% attenuation no problem. Long mashes at 148 (if you can’t step), minimal unfermetnables, some dextrose, and lots of o2 This strain benefits from more o2 than other strains. If you struggle with lower attenuation with it I’d suggest trying to up your o2 levels. If you’re not using pure oxygen and a stone you’ll never get remotely close to achieving max attenuation with this strain.

What type of a step mash would you recommend for this style?

I did a 120 minute mash at 151 and 60 seconds of pure o2. 4% of the grain bill was dextrose and only got to 1.032 from 1.080

As I said previous I'm going back to London Fog or maybe the Omega Dipa strain of Conan. Have slants of both.

 

[couchsending]

What type of a step mash would you recommend for this style?

I did a 120 minute mash at 151 and 60 seconds of pure o2. 4% of the grain bill was dextrose and only got to 1.032 from 1.080

As I said previous I'm going back to London Fog or maybe the Omega Dipa strain of Conan. Have slants of both.

What was your pitch rate? Homebrew based calculators tend to underestimate the amount of yeast. For a 1.080 beer you need a lot of yeast.

Do you have a flow meter for your o2 setup? 60 seconds doesn’t tell me much without the flow. I generally aerate for 4 minutes at .25L/min for 1.050 beers for instance. You can buy a flow meter on Amazon for cheap cheap cheap. They might not be incredibly precise but at least it’s a point of reference.

 

[HopsAreGood]

What type of a step mash would you recommend for this style?

I did a 120 minute mash at 151 and 60 seconds of pure o2. 4% of the grain bill was dextrose and only got to 1.032 from 1.080

As I said previous I'm going back to London Fog or maybe the Omega Dipa strain of Conan. Have slants of both.

I’m curious about step mashing as well. I’ve never looked into much but I guess I could just start googling it and reading about it. I’ve heard JC from Trillium talk about achieving his desired mouthfeel through mashing techniques as opposed to some of the more common ways of doing it.

 

[couchsending]

I’m curious about step mashing as well. I’ve never looked into much but I guess I could just start googling it and reading about it. I’ve heard JC from Trillium talk about achieving his desired mouthfeel through mashing techniques as opposed to some of the more common ways of doing it.

There are a lot of variables at play. With over modified NA 2 row it doesn’t really matter as much. There are optimal temps for each enzyme. 145 would be optimum for achieving a very fermentable wort but it would also take forever to convert completely. Stepping up to 154 then 162 will help with conversion and allow you to keep the 145 step a little shorter. I step just about everything at 162 for 20-30 minutes. I think it helps with pallet fullness and foam.

 

[WonkyDonkey]

There are a lot of variables at play. With over modified NA 2 row it doesn’t really matter as much. There are optimal temps for each enzyme. 145 would be optimum for achieving a very fermentable wort but it would also take forever to convert completely. Stepping up to 154 then 162 will help with conversion and allow you to keep the 145 step a little shorter. I step just about everything at 162 for 20-30 minutes. I think it helps with pallet fullness and foam.

I'm still pretty new to this but recently I did my first step mash, 45min at 63c & 45min at 68c (UK brewer), using the Verdant dry which got me to 80% attenuation. Was aiming for a DIPA, ended up at 7% with an FG of 1012 and still had that 'mouthfeel'. Give it a whirl

 

[secretlevel]

Can't thank you all enough for all the info in this thread - it's crazy how much my beers have improved by following the advice here. I do have some questions i'd love y'all's take on.

1. Do you guys still use whirlfloc with this style? I've found conflicting information with some noting that you might want those proteins to make their way to the fermenter instead of dropping them out of suspension in the kettle per usual. I can see why this might make sense when the binding of polyphenols and proteins is desirable for this style.

2. At flameout I use a counterflow chiller to immediately chill down to 170F for my whirlpool additions. Are you guys continuing to spin the wort for the duration of the hop stand? I've seen advice to "just get it spinning" then shut the pump off so as to not break up the hot break material you want to fall to the bottom of the kettle. I suppose this is kind of related to my first question.

3. For those of you with conicals, what does your cone dump schedule look like? I've always had some clogging issues when doing closed transfers to corny kegs and wonder if I can switch something up to completely drop the hop matter out of suspension.

Thanks again all!

1. I'm not sure what the proteins would do to the final product, I've always used Whirlfloc and gotten favorable results. No haze issues at all.

2. I'll stop recirculating if the hops are loose and just use a mash paddle once in a while. If your hops are in a hop spider, I think you're ok to keep recirculating just to keep the whirlpool going and get more hop absorption.

3. I don't have a trub dump unfortunately, maybe someone else can give you a better answer. I know that most folks will cold crash for 48 hours before trying to transfer off the hops and most will use various filters on the dip tube. I use a floating dip tube with a little mesh filter on it and it works like a charm.

 

[aaronm13]

What was your pitch rate? Homebrew based calculators tend to underestimate the amount of yeast. For a 1.080 beer you need a lot of yeast.

Do you have a flow meter for your o2 setup? 60 seconds doesn’t tell me much without the flow. I generally aerate for 4 minutes at .25L/min for 1.050 beers for instance. You can buy a flow meter on Amazon for cheap cheap cheap. They might not be incredibly precise but at least it’s a point of reference.

I did underpitch by around 25-30% to stress the yeast, is it not a good idea to underpitch a dipa?

I use a flow meter at 1L/Min for the 60 seconds so about the same as yourself. It is just a cheap ebay or Aliexpress one so not sure how accurate it is.

Always did that underpitch with London Fog and never had an issue finishing. I think I'll try a step mash on my next brew. Usually do one on Belgians and Hefes but never bothered with an IPA. So would a schedule of say 30 mins @ 145, 30 mins @ 154 and 30 mins @ 162 work? Wuld you still do a mash out then?

 

[couchsending]

I did underpitch by around 25-30% to stress the yeast, is it not a good idea to underpitch a dipa?

I use a flow meter at 1L/Min for the 60 seconds so about the same as yourself. It is just a cheap ebay or Aliexpress one so not sure how accurate it is.

Always did that underpitch with London Fog and never had an issue finishing. I think I'll try a step mash on my next brew. Usually do one on Belgians and Hefes but never bothered with an IPA. So would a schedule of say 30 mins @ 145, 30 mins @ 154 and 30 mins @ 162 work? Wuld you still do a mash out then?

I’d never recommend underpitching unless you’re using a microscope and know for sure. And certainly not on a bigger beer. You don’t know how many cells you’re starting with and the Homebrew starter calcs tend to underpredict. You probably underpitched by more like 50-60%.

I said I oxygenate for 4min at .25L/min for a 1.050 beer. 1min @ 1L/min for a 1.080 beer with a yeast that needs more O2 isn’t nearly enough. Slow your flow rate down significantly. Slower you go more likely the o2 is to actually end up in solution. I’d do maybe 8 minutes at .25l/min for a 1.080 beer with LAIII.

Just cause something works for one strain doesn’t mean it’ll work for another. London Fog is med/low flocc with a predicted attenuation of 75-82%. To me that sounds like Conan and not anything like 1318/Juice at all.

A pitch rate of 2-3x what you did with 2-3x the amount of o2 would probably get you a much higher level of attenuation and an overall faster/healthier ferment.

As far as the step mashing goes. For another beer like this maybe try 45 @145 15-30 @154 20@162. I’m still undecided on the mashout step honestly.

 

[Frieds]

I have a pure oxygen tank but the regulator measures the flow in PSI. I never really know how much to set it at when I’m aerating my wort.

 

[couchsending]

I have a pure oxygen tank but the regulator measures the flow in PSI. I never really know how much to set it at when I’m aerating my wort.

Check to see what the wetting pressure of the stone is. What pressure does it take to create a small amount of bubbles? Then maybe go just a small amount higher than that.

 

[aaronm13]

I’d never recommend underpitching unless you’re using a microscope and know for sure. And certainly not on a bigger beer. You don’t know how many cells you’re starting with and the Homebrew starter calcs tend to underpredict. You probably underpitched by more like 50-60%.

I said I oxygenate for 4min at .25L/min for a 1.050 beer. 1min @ 1L/min for a 1.080 beer with a yeast that needs more O2 isn’t nearly enough. Slow your flow rate down significantly. Slower you go more likely the o2 is to actually end up in solution. I’d do maybe 8 minutes at .25l/min for a 1.080 beer with LAIII.

Just cause something works for one strain doesn’t mean it’ll work for another. London Fog is med/low flocc with a predicted attenuation of 75-82%. To me that sounds like Conan and not anything like 1318/Juice at all.

A pitch rate of 2-3x what you did with 2-3x the amount of o2 would probably get you a much higher level of attenuation and an overall faster/healthier ferment.

As far as the step mashing goes. For another beer like this maybe try 45 @145 15-30 @154 20@162. I’m still undecided on the mashout step honestly.

Plenty off food for thought there, thanks for all the advice. I'll slow the oxygen flow down next time. At 1L/min it creates a lot of bubbles on top of the wort so probably very little is ending up in the wort.

I was always under the impression that under pitching with these yeast strains was the way to go, does it become less of a good idea once the OG goes over a certain point? I know cell counting on a homebrew scale is a massive estimated guess on a homebrew scale so as you pointed out I probably did a huge under pitch.

Wonder what the origins of London Fog is. When I first started using it the attenuation of it was only listed as 65-70% but in the last year or so it's gone to 75-82%. It's still down as 65-70 on most of the homebrew stores I use but on the White Labs site it's 75-82. The last few times I used it I did get slightly better attenuation. A 66C mash with an estimated 25-30% under pitch consistently got me to 1.018-19 on a 1,080 OG. It's so boring with how predictable it was.

 

[tbaldwin000]

Wonder what the origins of London Fog is.

London Fog is from the same origin as LA3, Juice etc.

 

[crusader1612]

London Fog is from the same origin as LA3, Juice etc.

Probably London? LOL (Sorry)

 

[Frieds]

A 66C mash with an estimated 25-30% under pitch consistently got me to 1.018-19 on a 1,080 OG. It's so boring with how predictable it was.

Isn’t that a good thing though? Wouldn’t having a predictable yeast help in brewing consistent beers?

 

[aaronm13]

London Fog is from the same origin as LA3, Juice etc.

It's definitely not the same strain anyway as LA3 had better attenuation on paper anyway but Fog has changed in the last year or so and has better attenuation now.

 

[aaronm13]

Isn’t that a good thing though? Wouldn’t having a predictable yeast help in brewing consistent beers?

Sorry that was a joke, should have put LOL or something. I love how you know exactly how it will perform.

 

[R.A.I.D]

Is a PET carboy/fermzilla/fermentasaurus sufficient oxygen diffusion proof for oxygen sensitive NEIPAs? What is your experiences when dry hopping in one of those?

 

[jerrylotto]

Pressure test it for leaks- if it holds a few pounds of pressure, you are good. Some cautions to take include using Teflon tape on the threaded parts including the lid. If you have a spunding valve, ferment at 3-5 psi, otherwise a bubblier works OK. I mounted a ball lock gas post in my lid for exacly that purpose. The collection ball on my FastFerment works like a charm for dry hopping. Cold crash and it all compacts into the ball.

 

[R.A.I.D]

Pressure test it for leaks

I was worried about the PET material itself. It should allow oxygen diffusion to some extend compared to a glass carboy or a stainless steel fermenter.

 

[jerrylotto]

Diffusion rates through pet films are in the millionths of grams. Fermenters are thicker than that.

 

[ChiknNutz]

http://scottjanish.com/dry-hop-best...s-a-guide-for-process-and-recipe-development/
This is the procedure for dry hopping at Sapwood:



He also writes:


At Sapwood they use 20 barrel/2400 L fermenter. So at homebrew scale we might get similar results faster if we shake the dry hop container once a day.

So we might end up with 56F/13C in 1-3 days.

I have been thinking a lot about this after I read the article. My assumption of point of this procedure is to periodically put the hop matter back into suspension so as to provide better hop utilization...is that correct? If so, I am curious if there are those in the homebrewing world that have conical fermenters performing a similar procedure? If so, I am keen to learn if this may be what helps to provide a much brighter overall hop presence in the upper echelon of commercial NEIPAs.

 

[Dgallo]

Is a PET carboy/fermzilla/fermentasaurus sufficient oxygen diffusion proof for oxygen sensitive NEIPAs? What is your experiences when dry hopping in one of those?

For what it’s worth, I ferment exclusively in pet fermonsters and have no noticeable o2 issues with NEIPAS

 

[HopsAreGood]

For what it’s worth, I ferment exclusively in pet fermonsters and have no noticeable o2 issues with NEIPAS

Same here. Every batch I’ve ever done has been in a fermonster. Never had any issues whatsoever.

 

[skleice]

For what it’s worth, I ferment exclusively in pet fermonsters and have no noticeable o2 issues with NEIPAS

How do u deal with cold crashing and closed transfer?

 

[Dgallo]

How do u deal with cold crashing and closed transfer?

I modified the lid of my fermonster with ball lock posts and a floating dip tube. Here’s my thread about it
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/thread...lete-closed-transfer-system-for-cheap.680992/

 

[skleice]

I modified the lid of my fermonster with ball lock posts and a floating dip tube. Here’s my thread about it
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/thread...lete-closed-transfer-system-for-cheap.680992/

Ah yes, I've seen that before. Nice set up!

 

[Dgallo]

Ah yes, I've seen that before. Nice set up!

Thanks man. Don’t get me wrong, if your able to splurge on stainless, go for it. I just can’t justify it with two little ones. But in the future when I actually can turn one half of the basement into a true home brewery, I’ll need the stainless to have that visual effect lol

 

[roosruus]

How close would you guys say you've gotten to the best commercial examples such as Other Half and Burial(local to me)?

I feel like I'm getting close with the aroma but the flavor always disappoints in some way. I've brewed 8 NEIPAs so far since I started brewing last May, and using best practices with reducing O2 (closed transfer, purge keg with fermentation CO2, cold crash with pressure, dryhop while CO2 running, etc..).

 

[HopsAreGood]

How close would you guys say you've gotten to the best commercial examples such as Other Half and Burial(local to me)?

I feel like I'm getting close with the aroma but the flavor always disappoints in some way. I've brewed 8 NEIPAs so far since I started brewing last May, and using best practices with reducing O2 (closed transfer, purge keg with fermentation CO2, cold crash with pressure, dryhop while CO2 running, etc..).

Are you adding any hops in the boil? Or are you doing only WP/DH? I have found, for me, that I get a lot more flavor when adding hops into the boil. I’m talking 20, 15, 10, 5, etc....then WP/DH. Anytime I exclude these additions I absolutely notice that the resulting beer is more one dimensional and lacks in the flavor department.