New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[HopsAreGood]

Thoughts on Dry yeast alternatives for these types of styles?

I've just completed a hop hands with the new Mangrove jacks M66 Hophead.

1. Mangrove Jacks M66 hophead - good yeast, but not juicy, dropped clear, more APA/XPA than NEPA

2. Lallemand Verdant IPA - finished to sweet for me, but i had 5% carapils in the grist.

3. Lallemand New England - interesting, still not sold on the yeast in general, gives off big apple flavours, which im not a fan of.

4. S04 - I hate this yeast, so i didn't do so well with it.

5. Voss - Kveik is a good option, but gives a medium/high bright orange bitter pith note, which some don't like. needs to be carefully paired with hops.

6. Lallemand Belle Saison - Great option, did a 1.051 - 1.005 beer, with all mosaic, and its brilliant, funky, fruity, spicy and hoppy.

Keen to hear thoughts on some of the others below:
- Lallemand Nottingham
- Lallemand London
- any others.

Mix one pack of verdant and one pack of New England. Pitch them at the same time. You can obviously adjust the amount of each based on your OG, but for beers north of 1.070 1 of each has worked great. I have two different beers in kegs right now where I did this and I love the results. I also have a third beer with the same combo finishing up fermentation right now. All three of them achieved ~ 80% apparent attenuation and the fermentations have been nearly identical in terms of time and behavior.

Beer 1: 1.070 - 1.014 (80%)
Beer 2: 1.076 - 1.015 (80%)
Beer 3: 1.080 - currently at 1.018 but expecting it to finish around 1.016 for 80%.

I should add that all three beers were mashed at 152 and each had one pound of dextrose added towards the end of the boil.

All three beers have been close to 90-95% finished at 72 hours post pitch. From 24-60 hours post pitch it is absolutely violent. The massive London 3/Verdant krausen appears on day three, and then typically fully falls bye the end of day five which is great. I’ve had plenty of LA3 krausens that never actually dropped, so maybe the Conan is coming into play here.

The finished beers are very soft but not sweet in any way. I did a few beers with only the verdant yeast, and while they were good they definitely had that vanilla/creamy/yogurt kind of thing going on that I didn’t really love. In combining these two yeast, at least for me, that character is completely gone. It just leaves a very nice, soft, round mouthfeel with some fruity esters.

I’d definitely recommend anyone looking for a new yeast or yeast combination to give it a try.

 

[NSMikeD]

My numbers were spot on early except wort pH was a little low at 5.22. My boil was off by a 1/2 gal too much. The OG was dead on though, which mean is was slightly off with efficiency (low pH??? Or nature of the beast with flaked oats and whetstone??).
Without using the spider hop my kettle loss was another quart off. I dipped my sanitized paddle handle and swore it was the estimated 1/2 gal, but I emptied into a measure cup and it was 3 qts not 2. I topped off my fermenter with 3 qts of tap. I presume my FG and ABV will be slightly off but I’m not concerned about a NEIPA that comes in lower ABV. I’ll still be in the ball park. In any case I was 1.064 OG at 2.25 gals prior to the 3 qt top off.

Yeast is pitched, blow off tube attached and she’s in the basement at room temp of 65. My fermenter has a lager so right now I gotta go old school on ferm temp.

 

[LumberZach]

View attachment 724753


My numbers were spot on early except wort pH was a little low at 5.22. My boil was off by a 1/2 gal too much. The OG was dead on though, which mean is was slightly off with efficiency (low pH??? Or nature of the beast with flaked oats and whetstone??).
Without using the spider hop my kettle loss was another quart off. I dipped my sanitized paddle handle and swore it was the estimated 1/2 gal, but I emptied into a measure cup and it was 3 qts not 2. I topped off my fermenter with 3 qts of tap. I presume my FG and ABV will be slightly off but I’m not concerned about a NEIPA that comes in lower ABV. I’ll still be in the ball park. In any case I was 1.064 OG at 2.25 gals prior to the 3 qt top off.

Yeast is pitched, blow off tube attached and she’s in the basement at room temp of 65. My fermenter has a lager so right now I gotta go old school on ferm temp.

What size Fermonster is that? If that's 3 gallons of wort in there and it's over the halfway mark, that would make it a 5G Fermonster. Only problem is that they don't make a 5G version. I really wish they did for the 2.5G to 3G batch brewers.

 

[NSMikeD]

What size Fermonster is that? If that's 3 gallons of wort in there and it's over the halfway mark, that would make it a 5G Fermonster. Only problem is that they don't make a 5G version. I really wish they did for the 2.5G to 3G batch brewers.

That the 3gal. I’ve been brewing 2.5 gal batches in 3 gal fermenters for years (bucket and Brewdom prior). It’s actually 2.25 batches as I like to leave a quart of headspace in my torpedo kegs. The pic is before I did a 2 qt top off due to underestimating my boil off volume. I use a blow off tube as it is likely the Krausen will reach the lid at some point. I’d rather have it blow out the fermentor than out the pressure relief valve of the keg when I purge

 

[hopfenstopfen]

Thoughts on Dry yeast alternatives for these types of styles?

I've just completed a hop hands with the new Mangrove jacks M66 Hophead.

1. Mangrove Jacks M66 hophead - good yeast, but not juicy, dropped clear, more APA/XPA than NEPA

2. Lallemand Verdant IPA - finished to sweet for me, but i had 5% carapils in the grist.

3. Lallemand New England - interesting, still not sold on the yeast in general, gives off big apple flavours, which im not a fan of.

4. S04 - I hate this yeast, so i didn't do so well with it.

5. Voss - Kveik is a good option, but gives a medium/high bright orange bitter pith note, which some don't like. needs to be carefully paired with hops.

6. Lallemand Belle Saison - Great option, did a 1.051 - 1.005 beer, with all mosaic, and its brilliant, funky, fruity, spicy and hoppy.

Keen to hear thoughts on some of the others below:
- Lallemand Nottingham
- Lallemand London
- any others.

Maybe you should try s05 & ferment at the low end of the temp range?
I keep reading it throws peach esters at low temps, but have not seen anyone report on it in this thread. I’d be interested in the outcome.

 

[couchsending]

Thoughts on Dry yeast alternatives for these types of styles?

I've just completed a hop hands with the new Mangrove jacks M66 Hophead.

1. Mangrove Jacks M66 hophead - good yeast, but not juicy, dropped clear, more APA/XPA than NEPA

2. Lallemand Verdant IPA - finished to sweet for me, but i had 5% carapils in the grist.

3. Lallemand New England - interesting, still not sold on the yeast in general, gives off big apple flavours, which im not a fan of.

4. S04 - I hate this yeast, so i didn't do so well with it.

5. Voss - Kveik is a good option, but gives a medium/high bright orange bitter pith note, which some don't like. needs to be carefully paired with hops.

6. Lallemand Belle Saison - Great option, did a 1.051 - 1.005 beer, with all mosaic, and its brilliant, funky, fruity, spicy and hoppy.

Keen to hear thoughts on some of the others below:
- Lallemand Nottingham
- Lallemand London
- any others.

Blends.

Verdant/S04
- fermented at 64 for first 2 days

S04/K-97
- K-97 supposedly possesses some great biotransformative properties

Verdant/US05
- better attenuation, less sweetness

S04/S-33/K-97

Verdant/New England

Verdant/Koln

I hate Nottingham.

Verdant by itself is great but to avoid the sweetness I think it needs a sulfate heavy water profile. Helps to cut through the sweetness/body that yeast leaves.

S04 needs to be kept cold. 64 for a couple days then 66 then 68 to finish.

 

[jturman35]

Blends.

Verdant/S04
- fermented at 64 for first 2 days

S04/K-97
- K-97 supposedly possesses some great biotransformative properties

Verdant/US05
- better attenuation, less sweetness

S04/S-33/K-97

Verdant/New England

Verdant/Koln

I hate Nottingham.

Verdant by itself is great but to avoid the sweetness I think it needs a sulfate heavy water profile. Helps to cut through the sweetness/body that yeast leaves.

S04 needs to be kept cold. 64 for a couple days then 66 then 68 to finish.

You hate Nottingham in general or just for Neipa's? I typically use Imperial Juice as my go too NEIPA yeast, but id like to try some dry yeast for a change. I have never used Verdant or New England, I will have to give these a try. Thank you guys for your input.

On a side note, my next batch although not a Neipa I'm doing a Lawson's Double Sunshine clone with two packs of S-05, I brewed this several years ago and it was very good. I like the crispness S-05 brings to the table for an IPA.

 

[Frieds]

Maybe you should try s05 & ferment at the low end of the temp range?
I keep reading it throws peach esters at low temps, but have not seen anyone report on it in this thread. I’d be interested in the outcome.

This is my latest beer, a 5% Hazy Pale fermented with US05. I fermented it at 63 and I personally can’t detect any peach notes. I was reasonably generous with the dry hop though so that may have played a part in masking any type of yeast character.

 

[eugles]

I’ve been reading a bunch of older posts on water chemistry and am starting to re-evaluate what I’ve been doing. I’m using RO water that just for fun I had tested with Ward labs, and well it’s pretty devoid of anything There seems to be a trend to lower the calcium levels from what I can tell and so I’m wondering what are people’s “standard” profiles these days. I’ve found that in my last few batches I’ve pretty much had to stop using gypsum in order to get low calcium while still getting some amount of sulfates.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

I am curious as well on this topic but also wondering why, as calcium plays such an important role in the mash. I know people are not eliminating it, but someone else mentioned somewhere I think I read that places like treehouse (must) have a high alkalinity in the water so maybe people on the homebrew level are lowering the calcium to emulate the effect that alkalinity has on the mash? Personally I add acid to my water to lower my alkalinity so maybe I should not be doing this for my NEIPA or maybe adding less as to not bring alkalinity down as far. I start with 98ppm alkalinity and get down to about 30ppm with my acid addition.

 

[NSMikeD]

Coming up on 48 hours since pitched. A few thing that may or may not be a problem Firstly one of the ball locks is difficult to hook up. It was hard to tell if my blow off tube was properly connected. Secondly the weather has not cooperated with 40* swings. I have a lager aging at 45 in my mini fridge so I decided to put NEIPA in the basement. Alas, yesterday the ambient temp was 70 in the basement, way warm for this time of year but not bad for a start. It’s usually 65.

I didn’t see sign of fermentation after 24 hours though.

I went to check on it today and the basement was 56 and still no obvious signs of fermentation even though the yeast hydrated nicely before pitching

first with the ball locks. With all the struggling getting the blow off tube on, the tube for the the float had come off. Ok. Since it’s still very early and O2 is desired I opened sanitized and reattached the float tube. Since I was able to get my hands on a working gauge (another thread documents the bad gauge I received with my spunding kit) I decided to pressure ferment at room temperature. So I hooked up the kit put on some CO2 and the gasket on the ball lock was leaking. So I reattached it and hook it up and was able to hold steady at 4 psi.

I believe I have this set now so that I can either continue to pressure ferment or switch to the blow off tube once I see progress. Which leads me to issue two.

I think the cold temps over night in the basement might have put slowed the years to a crawl. I want able to observe any air leaving and there is no usually circulation of yeast nor formation of krausen. I’ll know more in the next day or 2. I am holding off part hopping until I see action and do so on the back side.

One last note. I have a cambro that i can turn on its side and nicely fit my keg. I decided to move the lager in it, and put a few large ice packs. The cambro (food service coolers) is like Yeties when it comes to insulation and I have a number of large food service ice packs. Since the larger was in primary at 55 for three weeks and then in the keg at 45 for another week so far, I think the cambro with rotating ice packs will keep it in a safe range.

Thus I can move the NEIPA into the mini fridge on a dialed in ambient temperature once I see action.

I hate having to cross my fingers after trouble shooting but it is what it is. Life with DIY modifications.

 

[HopsAreGood]

I’ve been reading a bunch of older posts on water chemistry and am starting to re-evaluate what I’ve been doing. I’m using RO water that just for fun I had tested with Ward labs, and well it’s pretty devoid of anything There seems to be a trend to lower the calcium levels from what I can tell and so I’m wondering what are people’s “standard” profiles these days. I’ve found that in my last few batches I’ve pretty much had to stop using gypsum in order to get low calcium while still getting some amount of sulfates.

Here’s my last few batches....I play around with it but they’re usually in this general ballpark:

 

[R.A.I.D]

Here’s my last few batches....I play around with it but they’re usually in this general ballpark:

View attachment 724942View attachment 724943View attachment 724944

Could you point out any difference between 50 vs 100 SO4?

 

[R.A.I.D]

I’ve been reading a bunch of older posts on water chemistry and am starting to re-evaluate what I’ve been doing. I’m using RO water that just for fun I had tested with Ward labs, and well it’s pretty devoid of anything There seems to be a trend to lower the calcium levels from what I can tell and so I’m wondering what are people’s “standard” profiles these days. I’ve found that in my last few batches I’ve pretty much had to stop using gypsum in order to get low calcium while still getting some amount of sulfates.

My current favorite is
Ca 115 | Mg 15 | SO4 50 | Na 100 | Cl 200
But still testing...

 

[HopsAreGood]

Could you point out any difference between 50 vs 100 SO4?

Not really...I’d be lying if I said I could pinpoint much of a difference. I typically go with 100-200 ppm chloride and 50-100 ppm sulfate. The results are always pretty similar to my palette. I heard the owner of verdant talk about how sulfates accentuates “hop bitterness” to him, not so much hop flavor or aroma. They released one of their recipes and it had a 230:4 ratio of chloride to sulfate. I made a beer with this exact ratio and it was very similar to 200:100, even though there was virtually no sulfate whatsoever in the starting water.

 

[Taket_al_Tauro]

I am curious as well on this topic but also wondering why, as calcium plays such an important role in the mash. I know people are not eliminating it, but someone else mentioned somewhere I think I read that places like treehouse (must) have a high alkalinity in the water so maybe people on the homebrew level are lowering the calcium to emulate the effect that alkalinity has on the mash? Personally I add acid to my water to lower my alkalinity so maybe I should not be doing this for my NEIPA or maybe adding less as to not bring alkalinity down as far. I start with 98ppm alkalinity and get down to about 30ppm with my acid addition.

IMO they may have high alkalinity in the water to start with (I read somewhere that HF may have hard/alkaline starting water too...), but if that is the case then I am fairly sure they will thoroughly neutralize it with acid to meet optimal mash and wort pH ranges. I cannot imagine they would just brew with their high alkalinity water as it is, especially not lightly colored and extremely hoppy beers like NEIPAs.
From what I gathered here in this thread, a mash pH in the 5.2 - 5.4 range, a pre-boil pH around 5.0 to 5.2, and a fermenter pH around 4.9 - 5.0 seem to be ideal for the style. I believe I've had good results too following these guidelines. IME there is no way to hit these pH ranges unless you completely neutralize alkalinity.

As for the calcium, I've gone above 150 ppm and I did not experience the "chalkiness" some people report and attribute to high Ca-levels. I wonder if this "chalkiness" is not a result of other factors...

 

[crusader1612]

Blends.

Verdant/S04
- fermented at 64 for first 2 days

S04/K-97
- K-97 supposedly possesses some great biotransformative properties

Verdant/US05
- better attenuation, less sweetness

S04/S-33/K-97

Verdant/New England

Verdant/Koln

I hate Nottingham.

Verdant by itself is great but to avoid the sweetness I think it needs a sulfate heavy water profile. Helps to cut through the sweetness/body that yeast leaves.

S04 needs to be kept cold. 64 for a couple days then 66 then 68 to finish.

Good update, interesting information on the blends.
and yes, the Koln would be a good option, as the packs i've used of that, have finished hazy.

 

[Beerdrinker85]

Nice timing that you guys talked about yeast blend. I was bored and had 2 slurry of Vermont Ale/Foggy London Ale in the fridge. Starter is going on and will pitch this friday with I7/Sabro/Eldorado. I don't expect anything special but I made this trio with only Foggy London Ale 2 months ago so I can compare if the blend will do anything special.

 

[beervoid]

Anyone have experience with getting consistent melon notes? My last three batches have had various amounts of melon aroma in spite of all three having uniquely different grain bills, hops, and yeasts.

I've only had this once with LA3 and trying to replicate it but have no idea how. What yeast did you use, which nutrition and what temps?

 

[NSMikeD]

Coming up on 48 hours since pitched. A few thing that may or may not be a problem Firstly one of the ball locks is difficult to hook up. It was hard to tell if my blow off tube was properly connected. Secondly the weather has not cooperated with 40* swings. I have a lager aging at 45 in my mini fridge so I decided to put NEIPA in the basement. Alas, yesterday the ambient temp was 70 in the basement, way warm for this time of year but not bad for a start. It’s usually 65.

I didn’t see sign of fermentation after 24 hours though.

I went to check on it today and the basement was 56 and still no obvious signs of fermentation even though the yeast hydrated nicely before pitching

first with the ball locks. With all the struggling getting the blow off tube on, the tube for the the float had come off. Ok. Since it’s still very early and O2 is desired I opened sanitized and reattached the float tube. Since I was able to get my hands on a working gauge (another thread documents the bad gauge I received with my spunding kit) I decided to pressure ferment at room temperature. So I hooked up the kit put on some CO2 and the gasket on the ball lock was leaking. So I reattached it and hook it up and was able to hold steady at 4 psi.

I believe I have this set now so that I can either continue to pressure ferment or switch to the blow off tube once I see progress. Which leads me to issue two.

I think the cold temps over night in the basement might have put slowed the years to a crawl. I want able to observe any air leaving and there is no usually circulation of yeast nor formation of krausen. I’ll know more in the next day or 2. I am holding off part hopping until I see action and do so on the back side.

One last note. I have a cambro that i can turn on its side and nicely fit my keg. I decided to move the lager in it, and put a few large ice packs. The cambro (food service coolers) is like Yeties when it comes to insulation and I have a number of large food service ice packs. Since the larger was in primary at 55 for three weeks and then in the keg at 45 for another week so far, I think the cambro with rotating ice packs will keep it in a safe range.

Thus I can move the NEIPA into the mini fridge on a dialed in ambient temperature once I see action.

I hate having to cross my fingers after trouble shooting but it is what it is. Life with DIY modifications.

Back in business. Yeast woke up last night. Thoughts on next step. I have the spunding on right now. I was planing putting the blow off tube for a non pressure ferment. Also, I had scheduled the dry hop for day three assuming INC be on the other side of high Krause. The mini fridge is set for 67.
Pressure or tube? Dry hoo today or wait?

 

[ChiknNutz]

Do you also keg? If so, take advantage of the free CO2 to purge your keg. Connect a jumper from fermenter to keg and connect your spunding valve to the keg.

 

[stickyfinger]

I did a comparison batch b/w Verdant and US-05 1.5 months ago. After the dry hop, I was shocked at how good both were. The US-05 was great. It was super hazy using the crash-first-cold-dryhop method. I'd use it again if I had to for sure. The only thing I don't like about it is it attenuates more than I want.

View attachment 724796

This is my latest beer, a 5% Hazy Pale fermented with US05. I fermented it at 63 and I personally can’t detect any peach notes. I was reasonably generous with the dry hop though so that may have played a part in masking any type of yeast character.

 

[braindead]

Question for you guys.
Ive always wondered how Monkish get their beers the way they do.
Always a stunning colour, thickness and softness.
Most NEIPA that I've brewed and drank look the same, but Monkish always look special
Always look super creamy too but no lactose????

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

IMO they may have high alkalinity in the water to start with (I read somewhere that HF may have hard/alkaline starting water too...), but if that is the case then I am fairly sure they will thoroughly neutralize it with acid to meet optimal mash and wort pH ranges. I cannot imagine they would just brew with their high alkalinity water as it is, especially not lightly colored and extremely hoppy beers like NEIPAs.
From what I gathered here in this thread, a mash pH in the 5.2 - 5.4 range, a pre-boil pH around 5.0 to 5.2, and a fermenter pH around 4.9 - 5.0 seem to be ideal for the style. I believe I've had good results too following these guidelines. IME there is no way to hit these pH ranges unless you completely neutralize alkalinity.

As for the calcium, I've gone above 150 ppm and I did not experience the "chalkiness" some people report and attribute to high Ca-levels. I wonder if this "chalkiness" is not a result of other factors...

I am right there with you, like I said I add acid to get my alkalinity down to 30 ppm or lower for this style. My calcium level is usually around 100 ppm. Mash ph has been right around 5.3, I also have not had any chalkiness.

Edit: I just wanted to make sure I was doing the right thing. Thanks.

 

[eugles]

Question for you guys.
Ive always wondered how Monkish get their beers the way they do.
Always a stunning colour, thickness and softness.
Always look super creamy too but no lactose????

I don't have much info to add other than Henry did a CB&B podcast a few years back and provided some tips: Monkish Brewing IPA Tips

 

[NSMikeD]

I came home, ambient temp was 72, good Krausen and 5psi on the spundle, so I dry hopped. I’m leaning to taking it off pressure later and putting it in the mini fridge at 67 ambient.

Thoughts?

 

[secretlevel]

Question for you guys.
Ive always wondered how Monkish get their beers the way they do.
Always a stunning colour, thickness and softness.
Most NEIPA that I've brewed and drank look the same, but Monkish always look special
Always look super creamy too but no lactose????

It's very much years and years and years of brewing the style and perfecting it. I don't think there's one thing that will get you to Monkish level of beer, but rather a refined process and highest quality ingredients.

A fun note on lactose. Some brewers (Hop Butcher) use it constantly, but you could also have a high finishing FG to help out with the sweetness. People love sweet stuff.

Edit: has anyone measured or is able to measure FG on their double IPA's? Just curious where they stand.

 

[HopsAreGood]

Has anyone tried using fining agents in these beers? Whether it be gelatin, bio fine, or whatever else is available, I’m considering playing around with them. I typically do a soft crash prior to dry hopping and while it works out pretty good I know it could be better. My thought process is using one of these fining agents Prior to dry hopping to ensure that all yeast and any other particulate that could potentially bind with hop oils and drop them out, are removed.

It just seems like a sure fire way to make sure that everything is out-of-the-way before the beer is introduced to the dry hops.

 

[echoALEia]

Has anyone tried using fining agents in these beers? Whether it be gelatin, bio fine, or whatever else is available, I’m considering playing around with them. I typically do a soft crash prior to dry hopping and while it works out pretty good I know it could be better. My thought process is using one of these fining agents Prior to dry hopping to ensure that all yeast and any other particulate that could potentially bind with hop oils and drop them out, are removed.

It just seems like a sure fire way to make sure that everything is out-of-the-way before the beer is introduced to the dry hops.

I tried bio fine on a small batch I had to try and get rid of hop burn and it wound up making my murky NEIPA pretty clear. Haven’t tried gelatin in a NEIPA. Hope this helps.

 

[HopsAreGood]

I tried bio fine on a small batch I had to try and get rid of hop burn and it wound up making my murky NEIPA pretty clear. Haven’t tried gelatin in a NEIPA. Hope this helps.

Yeah, I’ve never actually used any fining agent before so I have zero experience. I’ve seen pretty clear beer turn extremely hazy after a significant dry hop though so I’d only really consider using it pre-dry hop. It just seems like it might make the dry hop more potent if there’s nothing in its way that could potentially drop some of those oils out. I would then leave it alone after the dry hop is complete.