New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[BrewingAround]

Hi guys. I've really enjoyed reading the whole forum and especially this thread. Just ordered bunch of hops from YVH including Citra, Mosaic & BRU-1 (all Lupomax) and some Strata hops. Never brewed with Lupomax and Strata so I would need some advice how to use these ones. I have no idea how to implement Lupomax & Starta hops into the mix. Looking for pineapple forward aroma & taste with tropical fruit/citrus backbone.

So I was thinking to go with some Citra Lupomax & Strata in WP and do BRU-1 Lupomax dryhop. Bit of Columbus or Magnum as FWH to pull some IBUs and no boil hops. Does BRU-1 and Strata play well together? Any advice with the amount of Lupomax in WP & DH to achive my aroma & taste goal? My original plan was to dry hop with Citra & Strata but I read that dry hopping with Strata might give you some dank & cannabis vibes which I'm not looking for in this brew. Any other hop combo you would suggest? I have bunch of other hops in stock but I guess I'm too exited to use Lupomax and Strata for the first time Just looking for advice since I have no previous experience with these hops. Thanks & cheers!

 

[Dgallo]

I wouldn’t say there’s a direct correlation between high hop rates and vegetal flavors. There’s many factors at play. A lot of heavily hopped beers don’t have that flavor.

I do want to make it clear to you and others that dryhop at higher rates than myself that I am certainly not hating on you or claiming you guys have not been successful at higher dryhoping rates or don’t make solid beer. (I’ve interacted with you enough and read enough of your post here and on other platforms that I know you know the style). I am just speaking from my experience and I have never been successful pulling off specific character with high oz/gal Dh rates. When getting into the the 2.5+ oz/gal range I would get elevated hop character, but the profiles of the specific hops I was using would get lost and jumbled, and not show themselves. Which for me is a problem since I do not want a beer that simply taste like a lot of hops—I chose specific hops so that I pick up on their unique character. If you’ve ever had beer from HF you know exactly what I mean.

If you or others are having success pulling varietal specific character out with higher Dh loads, than I am very jealous I am unable to do so.

 

[LumberZach]

Got a shipment of Citra and Mosaic hops from Bell's. Used them today in the whirlpool. I brew 3 gallon batches and added 3oz. total of hops in the whirlpool. Breakdown was 2oz. Citra and 1oz. Mosaic. When I opened the bags, I was taken aback. I hadn't smelled hops so pungent in a long time, and I usually buy from YVH. I rubbed a few pellets of each in my hand and the aroma exploded. Also left a sticky residue on my hands even after washing. I'll see how this one turns out and report back. Any advice on what ratios and how much to dry hop with? I want to use both Citra and Mosaic.

 

[beervoid]

Got a shipment of Citra and Mosaic hops from Bell's. Used them today in the whirlpool. I brew 3 gallon batches and added 3oz. total of hops in the whirlpool. Breakdown was 2oz. Citra and 1oz. Mosaic. When I opened the bags, I was taken aback. I hadn't smelled hops so pungent in a long time, and I usually buy from YVH. I rubbed a few pellets of each in my hand and the aroma exploded. Also left a sticky residue on my hands even after washing. I'll see how this one turns out and report back. Any advice on what ratios and how much to dry hop with? I want to use both Citra and Mosaic.

6oz total dh favoring citra. Mosaic can take over easily.

 

[R.A.I.D]

Were you brewing when Citra and mosiac were throwing cat piss consistently?

No. That was before I started brewing. If this is just an era I might try again in some years from now.

 

[aaronm13]

I wouldn’t say there’s a direct correlation between high hop rates and vegetal flavors. There’s many factors at play. A lot of heavily hopped beers don’t have that flavor.

Would you be able to elaborate on the other factor's at play, I'm at a loss why my heavily hopped beers lack hop aroma and flavor but definitely have a harshness the I would class as vegetal.

 

[stickyfinger]

I should point out that the recent bad experience that I described was not from 2020 Galaxy hops. It was a pound of YVH 2019 Galaxy (AA 12.9%) . However, the hops were stored in the freezer in the unopened vacuum sealed bag that they came in until I used them.

throw out the 2019. I just opened a 2019 galaxy that was amazing in 2019 but it tastes awful when i used it in my last beer. I smelled it when i opened it and thought it smelled mediocre but went ahead anyway. Big mistake

 

[Noob_Brewer]

Would you be able to elaborate on the other factor's at play, I'm at a loss why my heavily hopped beers lack hop aroma and flavor but definitely have a harshness the I would class as vegetal.

Ive settled on a nice cold side process that Ive gotten good at with it being closed (fermonster modified, etc), get a good soft crash (I hold it to 50 for 36hrs), DH at ~60 +/- a degree, and then do my 2 DHs. for me, I had a couple brews a while back that when using my standard 6-8oz total of DHs, I was still getting a sharpness, maybe a little harsh which muted the hop profile. But then it hit me. Those beers I got that sharpness more than usual also got much more trub in the fermenter than the others that didn't. Since I let hops free roam in the kettle, my "trub" into the fermenter included hops as well. So now I let my boil kettle settle for a while and I get a ton less trub into the fermenter and the sharpness is gone and the hops shine. Don't get me wrong, I don't think some trub into the fermenter is a bad thing at all, but those beers Im referring to had too much to the point that I took a big loss into the keg. So now that I minimize trub in the fermenter with my process, the hops are brighter and they drink VERY well. The last beer I posted here (Columbus/Riwaka/Nelson/Galaxy) is 7.5% ABV and had 8oz in DH and it is very clean and quite tasty on kegging day. No harshness whatsoever. Perhaps too much trub is your issue?

 

[aaronm13]

Ive settled on a nice cold side process that Ive gotten good at with it being closed (fermonster modified, etc), get a good soft crash (I hold it to 50 for 36hrs), DH at ~60 +/- a degree, and then do my 2 DHs. for me, I had a couple brews a while back that when using my standard 6-8oz total of DHs, I was still getting a sharpness, maybe a little harsh which muted the hop profile. But then it hit me. Those beers I got that sharpness more than usual also got much more trub in the fermenter than the others that didn't. Since I let hops free roam in the kettle, my "trub" into the fermenter included hops as well. So now I let my boil kettle settle for a while and I get a ton less trub into the fermenter and the sharpness is gone and the hops shine. Don't get me wrong, I don't think some trub into the fermenter is a bad thing at all, but those beers Im referring to had too much to the point that I took a big loss into the keg. So now that I minimize trub in the fermenter with my process, the hops are brighter and they drink VERY well. The last beer I posted here (Columbus/Riwaka/Nelson/Galaxy) is 7.5% ABV and had 8oz in DH and it is very clean and quite tasty on kegging day. No harshness whatsoever. Perhaps too much trub is your issue?

Trub could be an issue alright. I have a grainfather and try to get as much in to the fermenter as possible. When transferring I have a hop spider hooked onto my fermenter and run the hose into it. This seems to catch a lot of stuff but I sure some undesirables still get through. I was really happy with my beers up until around a year ago, people in my club highly rated them so not just me being deluded about my beers. I used to dry hop using hop spiders but changed around a year ago to all loose and this is when I started noticing the issues. So maybe I was getting terrible extraction from the hops this way and the vegetal aspect wasn't as noticeable. I do complete oxygen free transfers. My fermenter is a SS Brewtec bucket with gas post tri clamp and dry hop in a keg, so no oxygen.

I'm going to try the 8-10oz rate next time too see, if it works its going to be win win, less money on hops and more beer into the keg. If I don't like where the beer is at I can always add some to the serving keg. I'll also keep an eye on my trub going into the fermenter.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

Trub could be an issue alright. I have a grainfather and try to get as much in to the fermenter as possible. When transferring I have a hop spider hooked onto my fermenter and run the hose into it. This seems to catch a lot of stuff but I sure some undesirables still get through. I was really happy with my beers up until around a year ago, people in my club highly rated them so not just me being deluded about my beers. I used to dry hop using hop spiders but changed around a year ago to all loose and this is when I started noticing the issues. So maybe I was getting terrible extraction from the hops this way and the vegetal aspect wasn't as noticeable. I do complete oxygen free transfers. My fermenter is a SS Brewtec bucket with gas post tri clamp and dry hop in a keg, so no oxygen.

I'm going to try the 8-10oz rate next time too see, if it works its going to be win win, less money on hops and more beer into the keg. If I don't like where the beer is at I can always add some to the serving keg. I'll also keep an eye on my trub going into the fermenter.

I have the anvil foundry so I understand what you are dealing with with the GF I think. Rather than use a hop spider in the kettle, I let them roam free, but it does cost me more in losses in the kettle. For beers with ~6oz in the hot side, I plan on leaving a full gallon of stuff behind. Hurts my BH efficiency but honestly I don't care lol.

 

[aaronm13]

I have the anvil foundry so I understand what you are dealing with with the GF I think. Rather than use a hop spider in the kettle, I let them roam free, but it does cost me more in losses in the kettle. For beers with ~6oz in the hot side, I plan on leaving a full gallon of stuff behind. Hurts my BH efficiency but honestly I don't care lol.

I couldn't go loose in the Grainfather for whirlpool, the pump would just die. I use the Grainfather hop spider, it's not overly fine so a fair bit of hops get through it.

A gallon left behind, wow. That's a lot of losses. Maybe I should try that, I tilt my GF to try and get as much as I can, if I had 1/4 of a gallon left behind, I'd be annoyed. There needs to be a lot of trade off for these beers.

 

[TBryerton]

Would you be able to elaborate on the other factor's at play, I'm at a loss why my heavily hopped beers lack hop aroma and flavor but definitely have a harshness the I would class as vegetal.

Temperature, oxygen, timing, process, etc. You can take 5 of us on here and have us all use the same exact ingredients and I would almost guarantee we would have 5 very different end products. I’m not saying you absolutely have to load up on DH’s, I just haven’t found there to be much truth to the ‘once you go over x amount you’re just wasting hops’ theory. Sure, you can use lower amounts. Take @Dgallo for example, he uses much lower amounts, it’s pretty clear he’s knowledgeable, and I would be very surprised if his beer aren’t excellent. Everyone has their own methods. I found this experiment enlightening - drink a fresh Julius and and fresh JJJuliusss back to back. Both good beers. You can tell one, by today’s standards, is not a heavily hopped beer. The other, which is basically the same beer with more hops, is a much different beer. I’d be willing to bet JJJ is close to the equivalent of 1# in a 5G batch. There’s heavily hopped IPAs that are great, but there’s also much more reasonably hopped IPAs that I love. It’s all in what you’re going for.

 

[anteater8]

Looks good though! Just curious as to your thoughts, why'd you choose to use simcoe only in the DH and not in WP as well?

Part of it was just having 2 oz bags that I wanted to use all at once. I also wanted to go heavier on the CTZ in the whirlpool because I've had amazing results with the Trillium Melcher St clone, which only uses CTZ in the whirlpool. I wanted to merge that idea into this recipe a bit. At the end of the day I sort of just went for it without thinking too much!

 

[aaronm13]

Temperature, oxygen, timing, process, etc. You can take 5 of us on here and have us all use the same exact ingredients and I would almost guarantee we would have 5 very different end products. I’m not saying you absolutely have to load up on DH’s, I just haven’t found there to be much truth to the ‘once you go over x amount you’re just wasting hops’ theory. Sure, you can use lower amounts. Take @Dgallo for example, he uses much lower amounts, it’s pretty clear he’s knowledgeable, and I would be very surprised if his beer aren’t excellent. Everyone has their own methods. I found this experiment enlightening - drink a fresh Julius and and fresh JJJuliusss back to back. Both good beers. You can tell one, by today’s standards, is not a heavily hopped beer. The other, which is basically the same beer with more hops, is a much different beer. I’d be willing to bet JJJ is close to the equivalent of 1# in a 5G batch. There’s heavily hopped IPAs that are great, but there’s also much more reasonably hopped IPAs that I love. It’s all in what you’re going for.

I totally agree with you on this, what works for one person on a homebrew level probably wont for another, too many variables. It's all about finding what works on your system and go with it.

 

[anteater8]

Curious how dank this ended up being? Last time I used that much Columbus in a NEIPA it was crazy dank and overpowered all the fruit notes

A little dank, I think the CTZ came across a little bit as that subtle earthiness on the finish. When I brew Melcher Street clone with all CTZ in the boil/WP and then a fruity dry hop, it gives such a depth of flavor with a dank base and brighter notes on top. That didn't work out quite as well in this one, still a good beer though.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

I couldn't go loose in the Grainfather for whirlpool, the pump would just die. I use the Grainfather hop spider, it's not overly fine so a fair bit of hops get through it.

A gallon left behind, wow. That's a lot of losses. Maybe I should try that, I tilt my GF to try and get as much as I can, if I had 1/4 of a gallon left behind, I'd be annoyed. There needs to be a lot of trade off for these beers.

I think the biggest limitation of these all-in-one systems (GF, AF, Brewzilla, digiboil, etc) is that they are all tall and narrow. I tried to make a "cone" with whirlpooling prior to going to the fermenter. I did it, but once the liquid got to the cone height, the whole cone just broke and went to the sides. Too narrow of a vessel and theres no where for the hops/trub to go. So yes, I do take a big loss from leaving in the kettle, but honestly I don't get too caught up in it because I account for it and still get the 5.75g into the fermenter I want every time and thats the goal. I also agree with the pump clogging. Ive had that happen to me twice and I hate taking the pump apart once everything is cooled. The first time, was my fault as I had the whirlpool positioned incorrectly the second time I don't know what happened but got a perfect Saaz hop clog the anvil pump which has a restriction on the inlet making it easier to clog. SO now I steep instead of whirlpool and only use the WP arm when chilling with no issues.

 

[R.A.I.D]

I can smell the hops in the room during the fermentation. I take this as hop aroma leaving the beer before the beer is ready.
Have anyone tried to ferment at lower temperatures to avoid hop aroma evaporation?

Normally I ferment at 19C (66*) for 7 days and 23C (73*) for 3 days.

 

[ChiknNutz]

Hoping for the best on this batch, dry-hopped yesterday using 3/2/2 of Amarillo/Mosaic/Galaxy.

 

[Dgallo]

I can smell the hops in the room during the fermentation. I take this as hop aroma leaving the beer before the beer is ready.
Have anyone tried to ferment at lower temperatures to avoid hop aroma evaporation?

Normally I ferment at 19C (66*) for 7 days and 23C (73*) for 3 days.

Not much actually volitizing is occurring at that low of a temp. The yeast are consuming the wort and the co2 produced by them will have the aroma of hops and esters.

To put this in perspective, I just finished a NZ Pilsner and fermented it at 52 with 34/70 and still my entire room smells like hops.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

Strata. OK just curious, brewed a citra/I7/Strata NEIPA today. Brewed it before a couple of times and absolutely love this combo. I've also brewed a simcoe/mosaic/strata combo. It was dank city for sure but not really bright like I like to balance the dankness. What other combos has anyone used strata with here? Its a fantastic hop but trying to get some new ideas other than the ones in my noggin lol.

 

[beervoid]

Strata. OK just curious, brewed a citra/I7/Strata NEIPA today. Brewed it before a couple of times and absolutely love this combo. I've also brewed a simcoe/mosaic/strata combo. It was dank city for sure but not really bright like I like to balance the dankness. What other combos has anyone used strata with here? Its a fantastic hop but trying to get some new ideas other than the ones in my noggin lol.

How old was your strata? The first time I used it it was super dank and marihuana smell. The last time I used it, it was sweet orange tangerine, no dankess at all.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

How old was your strata? The first time I used it it was super dank and marihuana smell. The last time I used it, it was sweet orange tangerine, no dankess at all.

That’s a great point. I’ve used both 2019 and 2020. For me it seems strata is Jekyll and Hyde. Pair it with citra, it’s fruity as hell with a cool edge, paired with simcoe and mosaic it’s dank city. I did both those pairings with 2019 crop initially.

 

[BongoYodeler]

Strata. OK just curious, brewed a citra/I7/Strata NEIPA today. Brewed it before a couple of times and absolutely love this combo. I've also brewed a simcoe/mosaic/strata combo. It was dank city for sure but not really bright like I like to balance the dankness. What other combos has anyone used strata with here? Its a fantastic hop but trying to get some new ideas other than the ones in my noggin lol.

My last neipa I used Citra LM, Mosaic LM, Strata and El Dorado in the whirlpool and dry hop, (2,2,2,1). It was good but not great. I've only done a few neipa's but on my favorite I used .5 Nugget @ 60, Citra, Mosaic, Galaxy (1,1,1,) at flame out and whirlpool, and Citra, Mosaic, and Galaxy (2,1.5,1) dry hop. Then keg hopped an oz of Azacca. So tasty It didn't last long.

 

[beervoid]

That’s a great point. I’ve used both 2019 and 2020. For me it seems strata is Jekyll and Hyde. Pair it with citra, it’s fruity as hell with a cool edge, paired with simcoe and mosaic it’s dank city. I did both those pairings with 2019 crop initially.

I dont think the citra combo makes a difference, paired it with both citra and mosaic. I think hop lot differences and perhaps aging play a role. Its a new hop after all, they probably have to dial in consistency

 

[Massflyer]

I can smell the hops in the room during the fermentation. I take this as hop aroma leaving the beer before the beer is ready.
Have anyone tried to ferment at lower temperatures to avoid hop aroma evaporation?

Normally I ferment at 19C (66*) for 7 days and 23C (73*) for 3 days.

I would say if you can smell them, they are leaving the fermenter. I’ve been recently dialing in a Sip of Sunshine clone, and made the mistake of adding my 4oz dose of Citra at high krausen. I had been listening to a few podcasts which had recommended that timing, unfortunately I overlooked the fact that they were pressure-fermenting. So after fermentation @ 66F, with a two day rise and hold @ 69F, I pressure transferred from my Blichmann conical and force carbonated. After a week on the the gas, and a 4 week grain to glass, I was very disappointed with the aroma - almost non-existent.
Fast forward 3 weeks, same brew and same recipe but lowered primary ferment to 63F (Safale 05), and waited to dry hop until 1.016 - totally different beer! Primary took 10 days (versus 7)with a final ramp to 66F, and finished gravity was 1.012 (versus 1.010). Tasting impressions after 3 weeks: beautiful citrus aroma, mildly sweet juiciness and zero green hop bite! I really think there is something to lowering the dry hop temperatures. Seems hard to believe that a few degrees made all that difference, but in my case it did.

 

[aaronm13]

What's the general consensus on dry hop contact time? at the moment I'm doing 72 hours at dry hop temperature of 60 degrees then a cold crash of 48-72 hours depending on schedule at home. Is this too long? as sometimes including the cold crash the hops could be in for up to 6 days. I know in the Scott Janish book he says most extraction is achieved after around the 24 hour mark.

 

[R.A.I.D]

What other combos has anyone used strata with here? Its a fantastic hop but trying to get some new ideas other than the ones in my noggin lol.

My first one was a Trillium Street clone with Columbus hot side and Strata in dry hop.
Mango, passion fruit, strawberry, cannabis. Lots of taste. But the right taste?

Second was hot side 40g Columbus, 60g Citra, 30g Idaho 7.
Tasted before dry hopping: Dank, pine, mandarin, mango, orange. Aftertaste: Black tea. (I7 I guess? I don't find 'black tea' suitable for my NEIPAs.)
Cold side was 150g Strata, 30g Citra.
Taste like Strata on the dank base.

Both nice beers. But my favorite is still a commercial that was all Strata hot and cold side. That will be my next one, next time Strata is available here.

 

[TheToE]

Brewed this one saturday 1/30/21. 10g batch size, 12oz in the WP (6oz Bru-1/6oz Eukanot). Dry hopping now all in with Cashmere 6oz/Eukanot 6oz. Weird hop combination I know but putting this here just in case someone googles "cashmere and eukanot" like I have done countless times before! Can't wait to try this recipe with 100% galaxy.

 

[R.A.I.D]

I have tasted a very good commercial NEIPA with "Nelson and Motueka" (Senescene | DEYA Brewing Company). I wonder how the hot vs cold side distribution is. Based on this thread it sounds like Nelson easily could dominate Motueka and too much Motueka would give a low overall hop intensity.

 

[mullet6577]

Brewed this one saturday 1/30/21. 10g batch size, 12oz in the WP (6oz Bru-1/6oz Eukanot). Dry hopping now all in with Cashmere 6oz/Eukanot 6oz. Weird hop combination I know but putting this here just in case someone googles "cashmere and eukanot" like I have done countless times before! Can't wait to try this recipe with 100% galaxy.

Since you're trying to help future searchers, it's actually spelled Ekuanot. I looked up the name recently because I couldn't figure out how to pronounce it (may have had a few at that moment) and found out it was because the name Equinox couldn't be used so it was essentially named "Equinot"