Listening to this today Steve does say a 10-15 60 minute charge. I’d assume 10-15 ibu at 60 minutes?Here is all the info I could gather from that podcast. I apologize if I missed a few things, but this is the majority of what each person said:
Green Cheek - Evan
Water: 6:1 ratio Chloride:Sulfate. 300ppm Chloride, 50ppm Sulfate.
Grain: Gambrinus Pilsner Malt, Raw Wheat, Flaked Oats. 60% Pilsner Malt, 30% Raw Wheat, 10% Flaked Oats. Bioglucanase in the mash help mash efficiency and to prevent sticky mashes. Single IPA 17P (1.070) OG. Brewer’s Crystals on the hot side. Belgian Candy Sugar in the fermenter.
Hopping: WP at 165F. WP hopping no more than 1lb/bbl. Dry hop during active fermentation when beer is at 5-5.5P (1.020-1.022).
Fermentation: Single IPA’s 68F free rise to 70F 2/3rds the way through fermentation then adding the dry hops. Double and Triple IPA’s 65F up to 68F. Low pitch rate, high oxygenation rate (20ppm). Imperial Juice Yeast.
Gravity: Double IPA: 5-5.5P (1.020-1.022). Single IPA: 4.5P (1.018).
Fidens – Steve
Water: Soft water, soft beer. 125ppm Chloride, 70-75ppm Sulfate. Total Hardness below 350ppm. Higher Chloride = more hop burn. Mash ph 5.2-5.25. Post WP ph 5.0. PH before dry hopping 4.3-4.39
Grain: 75% Rahr 2-Row, 20% Flaked Oats, 5% Best Chit Malt.
Hopping: 10-15min charge (8-10ibu’s). WP at 180F. WP hopping at 2lbs/bbl. Dry hop under pressure. Soft crash to 65F and dry hop.
Fermentation: KO at 70F and let free rise to 72F. Underpitch. Imperial Juice Yeast in some beers. House Strain BSI A-72. 5 days max on the hops. Cap fermenter 2-3 days before terminal.
Gravity: 8-8.5% ABV: 4P (1.016) finishing. Pales: 5P (1.020) finishing.
North Park – Kelsey
Water: 175ppm Chloride, 75ppm Sulfate, 125ppm Calcium. Mash ph 5.4. Post WP ph 5.0.
Grain: 60% Briess Pilsen, TF Malted Oats, Best Chit Malt (awesome, but only 27 points of extract). Brewer’s Crystals on the hot side. Uses Bioglucanase in the mash. Uses Brewtan B in the mash for haze stability.
Hopping: 10-15min charge (8-10ibu’s). WP at 165F. WP hopping at 1lb./bbl.
Fermentation: Imperial Juice Yeast. KO at 64F and let free rise to 70F. Once fermentation is 75% complete, bump temp to 73F.
Gravity: Single IPA 16.6P (1.068) OG, Double IPA up to 20P (1.083) OG. 8.5% ABV and above: 4.6-4.8P (1.018-1.019) finishing.
New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA
- Thread starter Braufessor
- Start date
Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:
Listening to this today Steve does say a 10-15 60 minute charge. I’d assume 10-15 ibu at 60 minutes?
LumberZach
Well-Known Member
An 8-10 ibu hop charge with 10-15 minutes left in the boil.
What is your opinion on Pilsner vs 2row as the base malt? I see more and more recipes with pilsner as the base but you seem to always use 2row.
I feel that recipes with pilsner are not malty enough.
I rewatched the Treehouse video where Nate review his homebrew, brewed with 2 row, and he mentions the beer lacks maltiness and he would change the grain bill to include something more malty. Trying to wrap my head arround that.
Last edited:
Dgallo
Instagram: bantam_brews
I mean good Pilsner has a more perceived sweetness character than traditional 2 row, especially if it’s floor malted.
If he’s talking base malt that are more more malty there’s; perle, Golden promise, Maris otter, and even lite Munich that would be considered base malts that have more malt character than 2row.
But also, he could have brewed a single malt or very simple grain bill for his homebrew and said he would try to bring out more malt next time.
I guess I didn’t hear the 10-15 minutes left part. At 57:18 he says “we’ll do a 10-15 60 minute charge and then go to a whirlpool after that”
Frieds
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2019
- Messages
- 153
- Reaction score
- 199
I heard the same as you and interpreted it as a 10-15 ibu 60 minute addition. I believe one of the other brewers mentioned an 8-10 ibu bittering addition.
LumberZach
Well-Known Member
Kelsey said he does the 8-10ibu charge at 10-15min and said he does it like Steve (Fidens). That's why I have that in Steve's section as well as Kelsey's. They did a collab or two together, so I trust that what Kelsey said about Steve was accurate.
At 1:01:06 Kelsey made the comment about 8-10 ibu like Steve from an early bittering addition. Idk how long they boil for, but I’m sure it’s longer than 10-15 minutes.
LumberZach
Well-Known Member
Yep. They probably boil for 60 but don't add any hops until there's 10-15 minutes left in the boil.
Dgallo
Instagram: bantam_brews
If they aren’t adding any hops until 10-15, I wouldn’t think they boil for 60.
This all said I think we are getting caught up in regards of those 8-10 ibus. I don’t think any of that should be the take aways. The only big take aways from me are from fidens. Far lower tds than the others discussed and a different yeast strain.
Last edited:
I 100% agree, Kelsey won an award with art is hard with nothing until his incognito addition so it’s probably not that big of a deal. I’m not sure what yeast is the homebrew version of BSI A-72? Maybe omega west coast ale 2? Has anyone tried that yet? Idk about that low minerality though, there’s something to that mouthfeel that tells me otherwise.
Dgallo
Instagram: bantam_brews
It’s wyeast 1272 - American Ale 2. It’s the same yeast Bissel brothers and 21st amendment brewing use.
- Joined
- May 6, 2015
- Messages
- 61
- Reaction score
- 45
What temps are you dry hopping at? Crashing all yeast out beforehand?
Dgallo
Instagram: bantam_brews
Depends on the hop varieties but typically anywhere from 50-60.
I crash under pressure for 48hr(counting from when I hit the temp). The I close transfer to a liquid purged dryhop vessel, so that in dryhoping with as minimal yeast present as possible
Dwaynehaze
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2021
- Messages
- 64
- Reaction score
- 54
Is everybody transferring to a new vessel to dry hop now instead or dropping yeast from fv and dry hopping?
Always a pain in the ass to drop yeast out of my 7 gallon ss brewtech conical so I'm thinking going to a secondary vessel may be beneficial
Always a pain in the ass to drop yeast out of my 7 gallon ss brewtech conical so I'm thinking going to a secondary vessel may be beneficial
Dgallo
Instagram: bantam_brews
It is only advantageous if you have absolute stellar anti-o2 process. Without being able to fully purge everything and transfer closed, it will be a death sentence for your IPAs
I soft crash (55ºF) under about 5 psi for 36 hours and then dump the yeast. Then dry hop and dump (24-36hrs) after each hop dose (almost always dry hop a couple times). Pretty easy with my conical & the main reason I finally purchased a conical.
Dgallo
Instagram: bantam_brews
Soft crashing slows the yeast metabolism causing them to stop eating and they drop out of suspension. Yeast have a positive attraction to polyphenols and other hop compounds so when they drop out afterwards, they can drag some of the flavor/aroma compounds with them. Additionally by dropping they yeast out prior, you lower your chance for hopburn.
Dryhoping under pressure allows you to keep surface tension while dryhoping so you get no loss of aromas. Also if you agitate while dryhoping, it minimizes foaming, so it prevents any foam+ proteins from getting destroyed and can help with head retention
Last edited:
Dgallo
Instagram: bantam_brews
Are you replacing the volume with co2 on the dumps? And where do you have your gas port on your conical?
Just curious, how much loss do you think you get
- Joined
- May 6, 2015
- Messages
- 61
- Reaction score
- 45
I'm planning on getting a conical to not have to deal with the intermediate keg. I lose so much volume by going over to a corny for the dry hop. I usually brew 6.5 gallons into the ferm and would love to just dump and dry hop in there, but my coldside equipment stinks. Like Dgallo said, prepare to use a ton of CO2 to make sure air doesn't touch the beer. I even got the evabarrier tubing and stainless disconnects for my transfers, because I was so paranoid about o2 ingress.
Handy chart when purging different pieces of equipment:
Dgallo
Instagram: bantam_brews
Those are dry purges and absolutely silly to perform with how much gas is wasted. You need to preform liquid purges. Where your kegs are filled with water or solution. So then you just push it out with co2. To save even more co2 you can utilize fermentation and connect to fv gas post to a liquid filled keg where the kegs liquid post is connected to an open hose is a bucket. Then you can let the co2 produce in fermentation purge your keg for you
- Joined
- May 6, 2015
- Messages
- 61
- Reaction score
- 45
I liquid purge kegs. I use this chart
on dry hop chambers and other pieces of equipment that can’t be liquid purged. It’s more to show that a few blips of co2 won’t remove enough o2 for these beers.
Last edited:
Dgallo
Instagram: bantam_brews
That makes sense. That said , you can can still liquid purge purge that vessel to start. then if that vessel has a diptube of some sort, you can either set up quick disconnects or just swap out a liquid balllock onto you co2 line and then run co2 down the post while your dryhoping to keep prevent much(if any) outside air from entering.
- Joined
- May 6, 2015
- Messages
- 61
- Reaction score
- 45
good call. I'm working with the fermzilla where the dry hopper is either the collection jar underneath or the hop bong above. I've had some poor results when using the bottom jar, so I abandoned that idea. The hop bong works well, but I get better results when transferring off of the yeast to a secondary keg. I've been eyeing up conicals and decided to wait for spike's upcoming model that has a jacketed cone since I bounce back and forth between 5/10/15 gallon batches.
aaronm13
Well-Known Member
I have 8oz of Riwaka that I want to use in my next brew. What would be some good hops to pair it with? Thinking Citra for one but looking for possibly another. Kinda burned out on Nelson which is a pity as I've just bought a load of the 23 crop from Yakima, reckon I'm going to give it a miss for this brew.
I have 8oz of 23 Mosaic which I know will work with Citra but not sure about it working with Riwaka. Also have a good bit of Nectaron but I find it very similar to Nelson. This will be for the National homebrew competition in May so want to try and better my bronze from last year.
I have 8oz of 23 Mosaic which I know will work with Citra but not sure about it working with Riwaka. Also have a good bit of Nectaron but I find it very similar to Nelson. This will be for the National homebrew competition in May so want to try and better my bronze from last year.
Seems like I lose about 1 psi per dump. I know I dumped 3 times on my last brew and it was at 2 psi (from 5 psi) when it was time to transfer to keg.
I haven't been replacing the lost co2. My usual routine is to naturally build up to 5 psi (set by PRV) during fermentation (PRV is also my "blowoff") and then releasing as needed (after fermentation is completely finished) to do the dumps / dry hopping.
I've been setting my "dry hopper" at 1 psi over the pressure in the conical to dump the hops.
I'll reset psi as needed when time to do a closed transfer to keg if needed.
Dgallo
Instagram: bantam_brews
good luck man. You knocked me out last year. I’ve made the final table 2 of 3 years and yet to medal. Made the final table with my nz Pilsner too just can’t get it done lol
I would say go with citra or citra mosaic with the riwaka especially if it’s for nationals. That whole by the book style thing matters as you know so give them the flavors the expect to get. One of my score sheets actually mentioned “strange wine ester” in a hazy that I brewed with Nelson lol
aaronm13
Well-Known Member
Mine was in the nationals in Ireland, I wouldn't fancy my chances against any of your beers. I know what you mean about the by the book thing. Going for my BJCP in April, did the online exam over Christmas and passed, so tasting exam next. There's so much with the guidelines that don't make sense, especially with hazy ipas.
So if you went with Citra, Mosaic and Riwaka what ratio would you go with. I did Riwaka, Citra and Nelson before and went a bit too heavy with the Riwaka, it totally overpowered the other hops.
beervoid
Hophead & Pellet Rubber
I would steer clear of Mosaic it's a pretty divisive hop. Citra is always good. Riwaka colder dryhopping helps keep the diesel away if you have a bad lot.
Dgallo
Instagram: bantam_brews
Mosaic has been better lately (atleast in my personal experience, so I do understand I could have been lucky with my lots) and the only time I’d call it divisive is when it’s a single hop or at a really rate in a combo.
If you are competing, I’d argue that the style guidelines are really written with the combo citra/mosaic/galaxy in mind, so it’s definitely safe to use 2 or all of those in that instance.
This is purely anecdotal of course but my experience competing in this category is that the way we currently approach the style (fidens, green cheek, north park, etc) isn’t quite within the style guidelines as the body is too viscus/creamy and the finish is too full and not dry enough. And i seem to so far better in northeast and west coast competitions. But anywhere from like Ohio to California (exception Colorado) i typically get dinged for my mouthfeel as too “thick” or “creamy, not to style”. I’ve also had better luck in the northeast/wc with unique hop combos. My assumption is that judges in their area perceive the style based on what they are used to in their local markets and judge based off that.
aaronm13
Well-Known Member
Ive those issues too with the guidelines as they don't match up with what we would consider perfect examples of the style, especially in the body as you mentioned. There's a guy from New York in my homebrew club who is also a BJCP judge and he's spoken to Gordon Strong about the obvious discrepancies in the guidelines. I never payed too much attention to them still I started going for my BJCP qualification. I definitely notice with the top European hazy ipas brewery's that their body's have all gotten thinner over the last few years. Mostly links up with brewery expansion so think they're over attenuating the beers now for financial reasons.
Think I might just go with Citra and Riwaka then for this one. Would a ratio of 2:1 Citra: Riwaka sound ok to you?
FringeDweller
Member
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2022
- Messages
- 10
- Reaction score
- 2
Smalloy88, what version Fermzilla do you have. From what I understand the new 3.2 version has an upgraded 3" butterfly valve, do you think that will make a difference? I was definitely considering getting one to not have to do multiple transfers.
LumberZach
Well-Known Member
I stopped entering my hazies into comps. I brew them how I like them and my friends and family like them as well. I'm not going to brew a batch to appease judges because of how it's written in the BJCP guidelines. The guidelines need to be expanded if you ask me.
Dgallo
Instagram: bantam_brews
I don’t disagree at all with your sentiment by anymeans. Unfortunately, by nature I’m extremely competitive and once I entered my first comp, I was hooked.
I will say I have become more technically sound and brew far more styles than I once did. My goals are to medal in every state and medal in every style category (not sub category). It’s just what makes me tick
LumberZach
Well-Known Member
I've won multiple medals as well before the BJCP Hazy IPA category existed. I always entered my hazies into the Specialty IPA category. That may be an option again now that I think about it.
- Joined
- May 6, 2015
- Messages
- 61
- Reaction score
- 45
I have the first one that introduced the tri-clamps. I thought it was the newest one, but I just saw the 3.2 that has an improved bottom opening and collection chamber. I think it's great for the cost, but I definitely need to upgrade eventually. I find that one dump of the collection container doesn't really get all of the trub/yeast out, and I don't want to risk filling it again in fear that it contains some o2. I guess I could replace the container with some sort of elbow and just treat it like a conical with a bottom valve. My other gripe is temperature control. I can't fit it in my chest freezer (no time to build a collar), and my keezer is maxed out with serving kegs. I pretty much manually control temp during primary, d rest, and soft crash using their insulated jacket and ice packs/heating pad. It works relatively well, but I'd really like to just set it and forget it. I can get down 10-15 degF from ambient temp with a bunch of ice packs, but I need to replace them about every 12 hours. This process made me just rack to a dry hop keg and put it in my chest freezer. An additional transfer, but lets me relax during the dry hop instead of constantly replace ice packs.
- Joined
- May 6, 2015
- Messages
- 61
- Reaction score
- 45
Does anyone here adjust pH post dry hop with citric acid? If so, what is the usual amount required per 0.1 pH drop in 5 gallons. Going to do some math in the morning but figured I’d ask for anecdotal experience, first.
Latest NEIPA. Got some pro grade hand selected Simcoe from a local brewery. Absolute game changer 
(Terrible picture. It's 1am here. Need some natural light!)
(Terrible picture. It's 1am here. Need some natural light!)
Last edited:
If that’s a bad picture, I can’t imagine how excellent it looks in personLatest NEIPA. Got some pro grade hand selected Simcoe from a local brewery. Absolute game changer
View attachment 841171
. Incredible yellow haze!
