New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[Bohern]

Cold side, primary lasted for 12 days, with dry hopping on day 2, and day 10. I didnt drop the temp at all for the dry hoppings, left it at 68F. Then I cold crashed to 38F, let it go for 3.5 days, then kegged.

A couples of questions, did you leave the hops in the fermentor the entire time or did you remove the 1st or 2nd charge? Also what is your fermentor setup?

 

[MMP126]

A couples of questions, did you leave the hops in the fermentor the entire time or did you remove the 1st or 2nd charge? Also what is your fermentor setup?

I leave everything for the entire time. I dont really have a way to get everything out, so I dont really bother.

I have Speidel fermentors, with a spigot on the bottom, and a stainless steel gas post/thermowell combo on the top. This makes oxygen mitigation/closed transfer super easy.

 

[Bohern]

I leave everything for the entire time. I dont really have a way to get everything out, so I dont really bother.

I have Speidel fermentors, with a spigot on the bottom, and a stainless steel gas post/thermowell combo on the top. This makes oxygen mitigation/closed transfer super easy.

Thanks for the reply, I will give your way a try.

 

[Wilson Lima]

Cold side, primary lasted for 12 days, with dry hopping on day 2, and day 10. I didnt drop the temp at all for the dry hoppings, left it at 68F. Then I cold crashed to 38F, let it go for 3.5 days, then kegged.

Very interesting! So you had in total lose hops from DH1 in contact for 13.5 days and from DH2 in contact for 5.5 days most of that time at 68F (except for 3.5 days) and did not got adstringency, grassy or hop burn? Gonna try that. Also, I liked your "lessons learned" section. I am still trying to get my sweet spot neipa. Every time learning a new thing and I have one fermenting now and I also think that subtle adjustments on the grist one batch to the other are making great difference!

 

[Dgallo]

Very interesting! So you had in total lose hops from DH1 in contact for 13.5 days and from DH2 in contact for 5.5 days most of that time at 68F (except for 3.5 days) and did not got adstringency, grassy or hop burn? Gonna try that. Also, I liked your "lessons learned" section. I am still trying to get my sweet spot neipa. Every time learning a new thing and I have one fermenting now and I also think that subtle adjustments on the grist one batch to the other are making great difference!

I don’t want to steer anyone wrong here. I’m not taking anything away from @MMP126 experience because I do believe he did not get hopburn in his beer but his results are extremely non typical and is most likely due to the Citra hops themselves being low in polyphenols.

dryhoping during fermentation and dryhoping at active fermentation temps WILL increase the risk of hopburn and hopcreep. It is back by scientific and anecdotal evidence that both of those processes will lead to a re fermentation and as a result increased binding of proteins and polyphenols (hopburn). If he brewed this beer with say Galaxy or Vic Secret, we would be having a different conversation

the most recent information tht has been provided in this thread in the past year to 6 months regarding greatly reducing or eliminating fermentation dryhoping, softcrashing yeast prior to dryhoping, and lower dryhop temperatures is what WILL decrease your risk for hopburn.

 

[Wilson Lima]

I don’t want to steer anyone wrong here. I’m not taking anything away from @MMP126 experience because I do believe he did not get hopburn in his beer but his results are extremely non typical and is most likely due to the Citra hops them self being low in polyphenols.

dryhoping during fermentation and dryhoping at active fermentation temps WILL increase the risk of hopburn and hopcreep. It is back by scientic and anecdotal evidence that both of those processes will lead to a re fermentation and as a result increased binding of proteins and polyphenols (hopburn). If he brewed this beer with say Galaxy or Vic Secret, we would be having a different conversation.

Indeed! Very nicely observed! In fact Neipa´s recipes and processes are not easily interchangeable! Thanks!

 

[HopsAreGood]

I don’t want to steer anyone wrong here. I’m not taking anything away from @MMP126 experience because I do believe he did not get hopburn in his beer but his results are extremely non typical and is most likely due to the Citra hops them self being low in polyphenols.

dryhoping during fermentation and dryhoping at active fermentation temps WILL increase the risk of hopburn and hopcreep. It is back by scientic and anecdotal evidence that both of those processes will lead to a re fermentation and as a result increased binding of proteins and polyphenols (hopburn). If he brewed this beer with say Galaxy or Vic Secret, we would be having a different conversation

the most recent information tht has been provided in this thread in the past year to 6 months regarding greatly reducing or eliminating fermentation dryhoping, softcrashing yeast prior to dryhoping, and lower dryhop temperatures is what WILL decrease your risk for hopburn.

I was oh so close to replying to this the other day and saying that the lack of hop burn is likely due to the fact that the only hops used were Citra. I don’t think I’ve ever had hop burn from Citra...Galaxy, Vic Secret, etc...they’re a different story.

 

[Bohern]

I have a Citra I brew from time to time and have wondered what it would do if it were on the hops that long. That was the main reason for my question.

 

[togodoug]

At what point is cold crashing done? Is this after fermentation and before dry hopping or at the dry hop addition? Do you then warm it up into the 60s to bottle carbonate? Cold crash won’t kill the yeast needed for carbonation?

 

[Dgallo]

At what point is cold crashing done? Is this after fermentation and before dry hopping or at the dry hop addition? Do you then warm it up into the 60s to bottle carbonate? Cold crash won’t kill the yeast needed for carbonation?

Cold crash won’t kill any yeast and there will still be plenty in suspension unless it’s for an extended periods of time. If you do end up cold crashing for a long time you could use some CBC-1 yeast at bottling

 

[ihavenonickname]

I’ve seen the “honeydew” descriptor thrown around by Tree House, both by Nate and fans. I’ve never got it in any of their beers.

I’ve only had four different cans of EQ. One was great (their little 4.8% pale ale, Photon) the others were absolutely disgusting. Literally nothing but rotting melon. To me that melon “flavor” or aroma comes off as cantaloupe that’s been sitting in the garbage, it’s not pleasant at all.
.

Equilibrium started shipping out here to Southern CA too. Fun to try as we don’t get many of the other big names. i don’t care for their big beers either but was really impressed by Particle Physics - a citra heavy 5.5% pale ale. It’s incredible bright and limey and still has that melon flavor. It’s actually a bit tart. Do we know anything about their process specifics? I wonder if they’re dropping pH way down in the mash or boil? Something I might want to try out.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

limey and still has that melon flavor. It’s actually a bit tart. Do we know anything about their process specifics?

Limey can mean "biotransformation" (actually bioconversion), so yeasts like 1318 and T58.

 

[MMP126]

@Dgallo @HopsAreGood

I take no offense at all, Im just here to learn!

I dont think my process is the be all, end all way to do this. Just sharing experiences. And yes, looking back on my past brews, the beers that had a lot of hop burn were beers with Galaxy and Idaho Gem. I did a beer with Idaho 7 and Citra and again, not much, if any hop burn.

I think I like this process for this Citra beer. I will probably keep it the same with this beer. I am not 100% set it my ways, so I will keep experimenting and reporting back. And, I agree with the science, and if I do use those hops with higher polyphenols, I will try the soft crash method, probably no DH during active ferm, shorter contact time, and report back with my results!

Also, is there a chart somewhere that shows the polyphenol content of most hops? I read some where that the higher the alpha acid content, the lower the polyphenol content. But, I am not sure if this is universally true...

 

[TBryerton]

Equilibrium started shipping out here to Southern CA too. Fun to try as we don’t get many of the other big names. i don’t care for their big beers either but was really impressed by Particle Physics - a citra heavy 5.5% pale ale. It’s incredible bright and limey and still has that melon flavor. It’s actually a bit tart. Do we know anything about their process specifics? I wonder if they’re dropping pH way down in the mash or boil? Something I might want to try out.

I was impressed with Equilibrium when they first came out. Photo and MC2 were great beers at the time. But then all their beers started becoming overly sweet. I typically don’t bother with them anymore, but maybe I’ll give them another chance since so many people seem to be raving about them. The last time I tried them there was a tap takeover at a local bar. 1/2 Equilibrium, 1/2 Other Half. Everyone I talked to at the bar pretty much agreed there was no comparison.

 

[InspectorJon]

1/2 Equilibrium, 1/2 Other Half. Everyone I talked to at the bar pretty much agreed there was no comparison.

And the rest of the story . . . like the winner or what was the comparison.

 

[TBryerton]

And the rest of the story . . . like the winner or what was the comparison.

All of the Other Half beers were much better

 

[beervoid]

All of the Other Half beers were much better

I just had one, less then 3 weeks old can ddh dipa.
It was super opaque, bordering murk. Flavor was yeast and very dissappointing.
Any others had yeasty OH beers? Seems they pumping them out a bit rushed.

 

[Dgallo]

I just had one, less then 3 weeks old can ddh dipa.
It was super opaque, bordering murk. Flavor was yeast and very dissappointing.
Any others had yeasty OH beers? Seems they pumping them out a but rushed.

I’ve never had a yeasty beer from them but it totally Depends if your getting it from OH NYC or OH Rochester. Rochester has yet to put out one beer I’ve thoroughly enjoyed. But OH NYC is general are pretty good.

I will say this. OH and EQ put out collab a together pretty much every two weeks, I would think this means the breweries themselves believe they are similar quality and enjoy what the other brings to the table.

 

[beervoid]

I’ve never had a yeasty beer from them but it totally Depends if your getting it from OH NYC or OH Rochester. Rochester has yet to put out one beer I’ve thoroughly enjoyed. But OH NYC is general are pretty good.

I will say this. OH and EQ put out collab a together pretty much every two weeks, I would think this means the breweries themselves believe they are similar quality and enjoy what the other brings to the table.

Is there any way to tell? It was Oh Forever DDH.
If you check untappd you can see its very dense.

 

[Dgallo]

Is there any way to tell? It was Oh Forever DDH.
If you check untappd you can see its very dense.

The logo on NYC cans is in a circle, OH Roc cans is a triangle and DC pentagon.

also can tell by the tab. green tabs are DC, blue is Roc, black is Brooklyn.

 

[beervoid]

The logo on NYC cans is in a circle, OH Roc cans is a triangle and DC pentagon.

also can tell by the tab. green tabs are DC, blue is Roc, black is Brooklyn.

Ok so its brooklyn. Black tab and round logo

 

[BeerFst]

Brooklyn has a centrifuge, perhaps it was a bad can but unless their sop suddenly changed, yeasty is highly unusual

@Dgallo never knew about the tabs that’s nifty. I agree with tour assessment about roc, not nearly the same pop. They aren’t bad but they certainly aren’t blowing me away. Makes me curious about DC, my parents live down there and if not for the rona I’d definitely stop down there.I know about the free shipping occasionallywith an roc, Brooklyn and dc mix but never pulled the trigger.

I also find eq to beers to generally be sweet, and prefer other half Brooklyn far and Away

 

[VirginiaHops1]

I was impressed with Equilibrium when they first came out. Photo and MC2 were great beers at the time. But then all their beers started becoming overly sweet. I typically don’t bother with them anymore, but maybe I’ll give them another chance since so many people seem to be raving about them. The last time I tried them there was a tap takeover at a local bar. 1/2 Equilibrium, 1/2 Other Half. Everyone I talked to at the bar pretty much agreed there was no comparison.

A bottle shop not too far from me gets Other Half drops and I got 4 4 packs this summer. I was thoroughly underwhelmed. Wasn't bad, but wasn't any better than non hype NEIPAs I can pick up from my goto nearby bottle shop. One heavy on galaxy had significant hop burn/astrigency. Maybe I just got unlucky but I think alot of these hype beers are all in the name and would fail miserably in a blind tasting.

 

[beervoid]

Brooklyn has a centrifuge, perhaps it was a bad can but unless their sop suddenly changed, yeasty is highly unusual

@Dgallo never knew about the tabs that’s nifty. I agree with tour assessment about roc, not nearly the same pop. They aren’t bad but they certainly aren’t blowing me away. Makes me curious about DC, my parents live down there and if not for the rona I’d definitely stop down there.I know about the free shipping occasionallywith an roc, Brooklyn and dc mix but never pulled the trigger.

I also find eq to beers to generally be sweet, and prefer other half Brooklyn far and Away

Well I wouldnt say it was a yeast bomb and I think im very sensitive to this side of the tongue back of the throat lingering bitterness that I associate with yeast. It masks the bright hop flavor.
I'm wondering sometimes if I suffer from hop fatigue but when I drink some solid favorites I really enjoy them.
Anyway I got a few cans stowed away to see if they improve with time but I'm really wondering how much hype is dictating the quality of neipa's these days.
So far Trillium and Tree House have never let me down.

 

[BeerFst]

Well I wouldnt say it was a yeast bomb and I think im very sensitive to this side of the tongue back of the throat lingering bitterness that I associate with yeast. It masks the bright hop flavor.
I'm wondering sometimes if I suffer from hop fatigue but when I drink some solid favorites I really enjoy them.
Anyway I got a few cans stowed away to see if they improve with time but I'm really wondering how much hype is dictating the quality of neipa's these days.
So far Trillium and Tree House have never let me down.

Haha, treehouse lets me down all the time. That treehouse taste of the core beers is just too similar. That said I love the curiosity beers and their offerings that don’t use the standard yeast profile.

I’m with you on trillium though

Brooklyn’s ddh citra showers from a couple weeks ago was unreal. But in comparison more strata, and the 11lbs triple were not so great, but mostly just too sweet.

 

[Dgallo]

Haha, treehouse lets me down all the time. That treehouse taste of the core beers is just too similar. That said I love the curiosity beers and their offerings that don’t use the standard yeast profile.

I’m with you on trillium though

Brooklyn’s ddh citra showers from a couple weeks ago was unreal. But in comparison more strata, and the 11lbs triple were not so great, but mostly just too sweet.

Yeah I haven’t had anything from dc yet but I heard the quality isn’t there either. It’s tough when you expand. Treehouse will run into the same issues unfortunately when their 2 new location are up and running.

 

[beervoid]

Haha, treehouse lets me down all the time. That treehouse taste of the core beers is just too similar. That said I love the curiosity beers and their offerings that don’t use the standard yeast profile.

I’m with you on trillium though

Brooklyn’s ddh citra showers from a couple weeks ago was unreal. But in comparison more strata, and the 11lbs triple were not so great, but mostly just too sweet.

I can see where the Tree House profile might not work for some, its very expressive.
With this particular beer i'm judging from a brewers perspective where imho there shouldnt be any residual yeast flavor masking the hops. It's something I've run into with the majority of the neipa's out there and I wonder if its a matter of taste. I had some excellent OH beers as well.

 

[beervoid]

Yeah I haven’t had anything from dc yet but I heard the quality isn’t there either. It’s tough when you expand. Treehouse will run into the same issues unfortunately when their 2 new location are up and running.

2 more locations? Damn, I wonder if they will be easyer to get ahold of in the future and how they will handle qc. So far any brewery that expanded has gone down in quality, not by much most of the time but still some.

 

[exit8]

2 more locations? Damn, I wonder if they will be easyer to get ahold of in the future and how they will handle qc. So far any brewery that expanded has gone down in quality, not by much most of the time but still some.

Cape Cod and Deerfield MA. The Cape location is going to be small but not so much for Deerfield General 2 — Tree House Brewing Company

 

[Dgallo]

A bottle shop not too far from me gets Other Half drops and I got 4 4 packs this summer. I was thoroughly underwhelmed. Wasn't bad, but wasn't any better than non hype NEIPAs I can pick up from my goto nearby bottle shop. One heavy on galaxy had significant hop burn/astrigency. Maybe I just got unlucky but I think alot of these hype beers are all in the name and would fail miserably in a blind tasting.

I agree. OH is the worst offender on hopburn for me. And like you said, the Veil, Aslin, Brother Craft all put out similar quality. Honestly I’m sure most of us in here are. I personally enjoy most of my beers over many of other half’s offerings

I’m just personally love eq and I honestly can say I can’t make a beer that taste like theirs

 

[TBryerton]

My buddy is an OH fanatic, to the point he considered buying a second house to crash at near the Rochester location - so I get most of what they put out. Alot of the beers I get from Rochester are easily on par with Brooklyn. And both location do have a centrifuge. It does seem like the beers they distribute are not on par w/the beers they offer at the brewery. Meaning, I can get a more common OH offering at Wegmans, but their less common beers seem to be restricted to the brewery or sometimes the shops that have better relationships w/them. No facts to back that up - just an observation. No offense, but I would in no way consider breweries to be on the same level just because they do colabs. Colabs are more for marketing purposes. I’m not saying EQ doesn’t know what they’re doing, I just personally don’t find them to be very good.

And yes, OH beers are often rushed to market because of the space restrictions they’ve faced as they’ve grown as a brewery. Sam has stated they release beers ‘green’ with the understanding their customer knows the cans might have to sit a little. I never get hop burn from them, but green yes, quite often.

 

[spersichilli]

I’ve seen the “honeydew” descriptor thrown around by Tree House, both by Nate and fans. I’ve never got it in any of their beers.

I’ve only had four different cans of EQ. One was great (their little 4.8% pale ale, Photon) the others were absolutely disgusting. Literally nothing but rotting melon. To me that melon “flavor” or aroma comes off as cantaloupe that’s been sitting in the garbage, it’s not pleasant at all.

I’ve had both Citra+ Amarillo Juice Project and now the Citra + Strata Juice Project as well as Curiosity 105. None of them have the rotting melon flavor/aroma I got from those EQ cans. I have some more cans of Citra + Strata Juice Project. I’ll have to see if I can find it.

I’ve only experienced that “overripe” melon flavor in I think 3 of my hoppy beers. One was a long time ago and two have been in the last few months. Both beers had a large dry hop of Citra and Simcoe at colder temps. First one also used HBC431 and the melon seemed to fade, thank god, as the beer conditioned in the keg. I attributed it to the 431 taking over. Most recent one that’s conditioning now had a large DH of Citra/Simcoe at colder temps. Citra is 2018 from Hops Direct that smells amazing out of the bag and I bought a lot of this summer. Simcoe is YCH 2018 that also smells really good. Used both of these a lot and even in the same DH but with other hops, and never encountered the melon.

I’m actually wondering if the melon is actually an off flavor caused by some poor yeast health and hop interaction. The most recent batch was an 8th generation VT Ale that seemed liked an incredibly healthy ferment. Pitched at 62 and let free rise to 70 since it was a 1.046 gravity beer. Hit 1.007 in 40ish hours and pH dropped a ton. Left it for a total of 5 days then cooled to 63 for two days, removed yeast, and cooled further to 58. No diacetyl or “off flavor” before dry hop at all. Melon was very apparent even after day 1 of DH. Actually now that I think about it I wonder if pH is at play here. I seem to get a much larger pH drop on smaller beers and especially when I let them free rise to a warm temp. PH was below 4.2 when I did dry hop it. Maybe certain hops, at certain temps, in a certain pH tend to bring out that rotting melon or cantaloupe flavor/aroma??? Whatever it is I’m not a fan and hope to not encounter it that often in the future.

the melon thing is definitely something fermentation derived. It doesn’t matter what hops EQ uses, I get that same melon thing 95% of the time. I’ve noticed it also gets stronger with age (as the hop character fades). It’s a shame because the handful of beers I’ve had from them that didn’t have that were awesome.

 

[Dgallo]

the melon thing is definitely something fermentation derived. It doesn’t matter what hops EQ uses, I get that same melon thing 95% of the time. I’ve noticed it also gets stronger with age (as the hop character fades). It’s a shame because the handful of beers I’ve had from them that didn’t have that were awesome.

What yeast are you using

 

[Dgallo]

Btw. I’ll take the blame for taking this thread off track when I shared the info about the release

 

[spersichilli]

What yeast are you using

poor phrasing. I meant to say I get the same melon thing that was mentioned from the beers I drink from EQ 95% of the time. I use LAIII for my NEIPAs and have never gotten it in any of my beers

 

[Dgallo]

More on track info. Just had a single hop IPA brewed exclusively with Virgil Gamanche Farms Amarillo T45 and T35 pellets(pelletized by NY Hop Guild). Really interesting profile. It’s like orange blossom and bubblegum. Not an overly bold profile, but I think it would make a great complimentary hop for Sabro or Galaxy. Def worth taking a peak.

https://vgfinc.com/

 

[VirginiaHops1]

I agree. OH is the worst offender on hopburn for me. And like you said, the Veil, Aslin, Brother Craft all put out similar quality. Honestly I’m sure most of us in here are. I personally enjoy most of my beers over many of other half’s offerings

I’m just personally love eq and I honestly can say I can’t make a beer that taste like theirs

I think Veil's been slipping. I've been reading alot online about questionable quality lately and I was at a restaurant a month ago that always has an amazing tap list and had a Veil. Our server actually in the nicest way possible told me to reconsider when I tried to order it. Evidently was getting sent back by everyone because it had so much hop burn. I've never been that high on Aslin but alot of people are down on them lately. Both those places have the name though, so they'll keep doing well(Aslin just opened their 2nd tap room in the DC area).

I like Equilibrium alot. That's one of the hype beers that doesn't usually let me down. I've had some great stuff from them

 

[Dgallo]

I think Veil's been slipping. I've been reading alot online about questionable quality lately and I was at a restaurant a month ago that always has an amazing tap list and had a Veil. Our server actually in the nicest way possible told me to reconsider when I tried to order it. Evidently was getting sent back by everyone because it had so much hop burn. I've never been that high on Aslin but alot of people are down on them lately. Both those places have the name though, so they'll keep doing well(Aslin just opened their 2nd tap room in the DC area)

That’s unfortunate about the veil, I’ve really enjoy the 8 or so beers I’ve had from them in the past. Same with aslin but aslin probably haven’t had an ipa from them since they first started to gain some attention.

 

[couchsending]

When you’ve got expansions to pay for and a pile of debt during a global Pandemic it becomes a little easier to push stuff out the door you might not be that happy with. Not justifying it but I’d be willing to bet it’s part of the equation.

Customers are constantly expecting more extreme flavors and experiences unfortunately. These beers with all the hop burn are a direct result of that. Just the state of craft beer right now and sadly a lot of these breweries that built their reputations on these “extreme” methods and experiences are stuck and have no way out.

 

[VirginiaHops1]

It was happening even before COVID. Most beer customers aren't as discriminating when it comes to quality especially when the name on the can says a certain thing so they can get away with cranking their stuff out too fast to keep up with demand.