New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

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wepeeler

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Just finished up brewing an all Citra split batch trying out White Labs London Fog and Coastal Haze for the first time.

OG 1.072.
Mashed 152.
63% Rahr 2 Row
18.9% Rahr White Wheat
12.5% Oat Malt
2.4% Acidulated Malt
3.2% Carafoam

24 ibu Citra @10
38 ibu WP @175
DH = 7.4oz Lupomax Citra + 2oz T90 Citra = way too many hops...Just sayin...

I'll try to remember to post an update. Very interested in these yeasts. Sick of 1318. Still getting good results with Imperial DH A24, but need to branch out. Had great luck with White Labs recently 🤞
 

Noob_Brewer

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Just finished up brewing an all Citra split batch trying out White Labs London Fog and Coastal Haze for the first time.

OG 1.072.
Mashed 152.
63% Rahr 2 Row
18.9% Rahr White Wheat
12.5% Oat Malt
2.4% Acidulated Malt
3.2% Carafoam

24 ibu Citra @10
38 ibu WP @175
DH = 7.4oz Lupomax Citra + 2oz T90 Citra = way too many hops...Just sayin...

I'll try to remember to post an update. Very interested in these yeasts. Sick of 1318. Still getting good results with Imperial DH A24, but need to branch out. Had great luck with White Labs recently 🤞
never used either of these yeasts. Do you know what yeasts make up the blend for coastal haze? couldn't seem to find it other than WL stating its a blend of their favorite NE-style yeasts
 

Northern_Brewer

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never used either of these yeasts. Do you know what yeasts make up the blend for coastal haze? couldn't seem to find it other than WL stating its a blend of their favorite NE-style yeasts

I've always assumed it's a mix of WLP066 London Fog, WLP095 Burlington and WLP644 Sacc Trois - it's STA1 positive, so must have something like 644 in it, and the pineapple would fit.

I see they're now also offering WLP091 Best Coast Hazy Ale Yeast Blend which is STA1 negative - maybe the same blend without the 644? Currently available in homebrew size from Yeastman, so may be worth asking your White Lab supplier about it?
 
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Northern_Brewer

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Good Pilsner malt, mashed the right way will add much more complexity than just standard American 2 row. I find most British malt flavors to clash with modern hop varieties personally.
I wasn't denying your experience, just commenting from a different perspective - we don't have US 2-row available (at least not at homebrew level) so standard pilsner is our malt of least complexity (not true of the fancy ones like Hana obviously - find Crisp Hana if you can and make lager with it, it's great). And we tend to be operating a lower gravities, where the balance is different.
 

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Looking for some other beer related stuff, I came across a Yakima Chief video about "survivable compounds". I've viewed this thread on and off for a while now and hadn't seen it mentioned, so hopefully it isn't old news. Thought it might pertain here. I watched it a bit and just don't have the time to absorb it. Still just following trusted recipes.


 

R.A.I.D

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La3 dry hop at day 3, 21c and again after fermemtation. The other beer got dh after ferment and ended up 6 points higher.
6 oc points sound like a lot. By adding DH on day 3 it sounds like you avoid hop creep on your "after ferm" additions. By taking the hit up front. Are they equally intensive in hop flavor?

If you want to avoid hop creep you should keep your beer below the temperature where your yeast is active after you add your DH. It is a lot easier for a homebrewer than for commercial.

Disclaimer: I don't live in the area from NY to ME. So don't take my NEIPA advices.
 

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It’s crazy what fermentation and dry hopping due to the color of wort. The first image is pre-fermentation and I was really worried I made an ugly NEIPA! But it changed a bit during fermentation, middle picture, and is now looking beautiful post fermentation/dry hop, far right. Beer is weird! These are all pictures from the fv and in the same lighting btw. CE8A62B4-A055-434E-9A6D-6A7C57BF7952.jpeg
 

wepeeler

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Just finished up brewing an all Citra split batch trying out White Labs London Fog and Coastal Haze for the first time.

OG 1.072.
Mashed 152.
63% Rahr 2 Row
18.9% Rahr White Wheat
12.5% Oat Malt
2.4% Acidulated Malt
3.2% Carafoam

24 ibu Citra @10
38 ibu WP @175
DH = 7.4oz Lupomax Citra + 2oz T90 Citra = way too many hops...Just sayin...

I'll try to remember to post an update. Very interested in these yeasts. Sick of 1318. Still getting good results with Imperial DH A24, but need to branch out. Had great luck with White Labs recently 🤞
Best smelling fermentation to date! My basement smells like a tropical citrus paradise.
 

Noob_Brewer

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Best smelling fermentation to date! My basement smells like a tropical citrus paradise.
Lol, you mean you don't have separate fermentation rooms for each of these? Which one smells better? I always think to myself, wow this smells great! which transitions to me questioning whether all the aromas are being blown off and not left in the beer or not lol.
 

wepeeler

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Lol, you mean you don't have separate fermentation rooms for each of these? Which one smells better? I always think to myself, wow this smells great! which transitions to me questioning whether all the aromas are being blown off and not left in the beer or not lol.
That's what I'm saying! If this aroma was in the glass, I'd be in heaven <3

Coastal Haze smells more complex. Tons of fresh fruit. London Fog smells drier, if that makes sense? Like it's going to finish lower. Both smell GREAT. Actually, as about as good as any neipa I've made so far. Been digging White Labs yeast lately and never made a hazy with them. So here we go! Initial thoughts are triple thumbs up!
 

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6 oc points sound like a lot. By adding DH on day 3 it sounds like you avoid hop creep on your "after ferm" additions. By taking the hit up front. Are they equally intensive in hop flavor?

If you want to avoid hop creep you should keep your beer below the temperature where your yeast is active after you add your DH. It is a lot easier for a homebrewer than for commercial.

Disclaimer: I don't live in the area from NY to ME. So don't take my NEIPA advices.
When I do after ferment addition its below ferm temps yes.
I think the day 3 hop had a little bit different nose, maybe a bit softer fruity? But overall the beers where very similar. The higher OG one being a bit sweeter.
 

aaronm13

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That's what I'm saying! If this aroma was in the glass, I'd be in heaven <3

Coastal Haze smells more complex. Tons of fresh fruit. London Fog smells drier, if that makes sense? Like it's going to finish lower. Both smell GREAT. Actually, as about as good as any neipa I've made so far. Been digging White Labs yeast lately and never made a hazy with them. So here we go! Initial thoughts are triple thumbs up!
London Fog is a great strain. Always have my best results using it but need to mash low to get it to fully finish out.
 

Noob_Brewer

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Lol not even yoda could hold it back! Ever since I’ve gone to great pains to keep as much trub out of fermenter as I can, my fermentation’s have been much more vigorous and I now start em all with blow off unless using S-05.
 

wepeeler

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ihavenonickname

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Has anyone tried using fresh wet hops for this style? I think it could work for a big whirlpool addition.
Welp, I’m about to find out! 2 pounds of chinook (fresh picked this AM) went in the whirlpool this morning. It had a really nice but subtle sweet grapefruit aroma. Still deciding what to dry hop it with, thinking citra and 586, haven’t used a lot of chinook before
90D2ACFE-0668-45F1-9460-84E251391955.jpeg
96FBE9B5-7F70-4534-8933-68282C448270.jpeg
 
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Jimmy_Hops

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Has anyone tried using fresh wet hops for this style? I think it could work for a big whirlpool addition.
Welp, I’m about to find out 2 pounds of chinook (fresh picked this AM) in the whirlpool this morning. It had a really nice but subtle sweet grapefruit aroma. Still deciding what to dry hop it with, thinking citra and 586.View attachment 742376View attachment 742377
I did one last year with 2 pounds of wet cascade in the whirlpool. They were from my second year plant at the time and I didn't really get much from it. I used yeast harvested from a can of IPA from the Veil and I think the yeast took the main stage in the final product. Just a rather bland beer but I think that is because my second year crop didn't have a ton of oils. I plan on doing another one (hopefully this weekend) with my 3rd year Cascade and Nugget but will keep it more on the West Coast style. Let us know how yours turns out!
 

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Any thoughts on using Bob's Red Mill 5 Grain Hot Cereal?


It is, "freshly milled from a blend of premium whole wheat, rye, barley, oats, triticale, and flaxseed meal."

I foud this at the store and thought about throwing a pound or two in my next batch. I can't get any of those grains (besides oats) on their own where I live. Not sure about the flaxseed meal though.

Thoughts or experiences?
 

Tyler B

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I'm not sure because it doesn't give a percentage breakdown on the bag. It is the last ingredient listed on the bag so absolute max would be 16%.

It looks to be almost entirely rolled grains. Very little small particles. So I'd guess much lower than 16%.
 

Jimmy_Hops

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73% AA with a pound of dextrose? What yeast and what mash temp?
Imperial A38, mashed at 146 for 40 minutes then stepped up to 160 for 15. I didn’t make a starter so I assume that’s why. That’s what I get for being lazy! I was hoping for around 1.015, I think I’ll try Verdant next time to keep with my lazy ways. Great NEIPA though, tastes like thick, creamy, pineapple juice.
 

Noob_Brewer

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Imperial A38, mashed at 146 for 40 minutes then stepped up to 160 for 15. I didn’t make a starter so I assume that’s why. That’s what I get for being lazy! I was hoping for around 1.015, I think I’ll try Verdant next time to keep with my lazy ways. Great NEIPA though, tastes like thick, creamy, pineapple juice.
Yeah your pitch rate on that must have been in the 0.55 range if not making a starter and assuming it was fresh yeast. Im no expert on Juice having only used it twice but after several convos on here about it and me trying to get higher AA in the high 70 to 80% range, Ive made a healthy starter each time leading to a pitch rate of around 0.90, oxygenating more than usual, and bringing a half pound of dextrose. My first time doing this, I had an AA of 78% (FG=1.016) and for the second time using Juice (which I just dry hopped today) I hit 80% AA (FG=1.015) . My mashing schedule was 149 for 50 minutes, 163 for 20 minutes, and raise to 170 prior to sparging (I don't really hold a mash out temp, I just hit it and proceed). Ive been pretty pleased with Juice overall. Ive also never used LAIII or British V (same strain as juice but diff manufacturers), but I have used cosmic punch twice now which is the "thiolized" genetically modified version of British V. Think I like Cosmic Punch a little more but Juice pretty solid still.
 

Tyler B

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Imperial A38, mashed at 146 for 40 minutes then stepped up to 160 for 15. I didn’t make a starter so I assume that’s why. That’s what I get for being lazy! I was hoping for around 1.015, I think I’ll try Verdant next time to keep with my lazy ways. Great NEIPA though, tastes like thick, creamy, pineapple juice.
For a second I thought you used a pound of lactose and were confused why your fg was so high :) My mash schedule tends to be a bit more like Noob Brewers but I usually hold around 147 for an hour and don't raise it that high in the end. Maybe I should try that more often.

Anyway, how is Verdant? I got some that I plan on using in my next batch.
 

aaronm13

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Yeah your pitch rate on that must have been in the 0.55 range if not making a starter and assuming it was fresh yeast. Im no expert on Juice having only used it twice but after several convos on here about it and me trying to get higher AA in the high 70 to 80% range, Ive made a healthy starter each time leading to a pitch rate of around 0.90, oxygenating more than usual, and bringing a half pound of dextrose. My first time doing this, I had an AA of 78% (FG=1.016) and for the second time using Juice (which I just dry hopped today) I hit 80% AA (FG=1.015) . My mashing schedule was 149 for 50 minutes, 163 for 20 minutes, and raise to 170 prior to sparging (I don't really hold a mash out temp, I just hit it and proceed). Ive been pretty pleased with Juice overall. Ive also never used LAIII or British V (same strain as juice but diff manufacturers), but I have used cosmic punch twice now which is the "thiolized" genetically modified version of British V. Think I like Cosmic Punch a little more but Juice pretty solid still.
So you over pitch by a far amount then if your pitch rate is 0.90. Do you find your esters are reduced? A yeast manufacturer here in Ireland told me to under pitch these strains by around 25-30% which leaves a pitch rate of .6-.65. Maybe this is why a lot of my beers are under attenuating.
 

Frieds

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So you over pitch by a far amount then if your pitch rate is 0.90. Do you find your esters are reduced? A yeast manufacturer here in Ireland told me to under pitch these strains by around 25-30% which leaves a pitch rate of .6-.65. Maybe this is why a lot of my beers are under attenuating.
I try and pitch LA3 at .65 but you need a lot of oxygen. I generally brew 8%+ beers with this strain and I’ll aerate before yeast pitch and ive now started aerating again 12 hours post pitch and the yeast rips through the wort now. No under attenuation anymore.
 

secretlevel

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I try and pitch LA3 at .65 but you need a lot of oxygen. I generally brew 8%+ beers with this strain and I’ll aerate before yeast pitch and ive now started aerating again 12 hours post pitch and the yeast rips through the wort now. No under attenuation anymore.
You really kind of have to aerate with this yeast, it hates to attenuate no matter how much you pitch. It's particularly bad at bigger beers, but some brewers manage to use it for 8% brews. Aeration has to be the trick here.

Nonetheless, Fort George make some fantastic beers in OR and they use A38. Ones that start at 1.070ish, finish at 1.018, and 1.080ish beers finish at 1.022, so you're not too far off @Jimmy_Hops.

PS. Spelt hype!!! Going to make a NEIPA and a small saison from this.

PXL_20210916_221332523.jpg
 

aaronm13

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I try and pitch LA3 at .65 but you need a lot of oxygen. I generally brew 8%+ beers with this strain and I’ll aerate before yeast pitch and ive now started aerating again 12 hours post pitch and the yeast rips through the wort now. No under attenuation anymore.
I've stopped using LA3 because I couldn't get it to finish out on 8%+ beers. Was always crapping out in the upper 20's to low 30's. I always aerated at pitch but never did a post pitch one which I'd normally do on Imperial stouts or other big beers. Maybe this is the key. I do like the flavor profile of it,
 

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La3 dry hop at day 3, 21c and again after fermemtation. The other beer got dh after ferment and ended up 6 points higher.
I saw a similar drop in my last NEIPA with LA3 and a post-fermentation dry hop. I didn't get quite the hop character I was looking for in my previous NEIPA with a cold post-ferm dry hop at 50F, so on this one, I did a soft crash to 50F after fermentation, but let the beer warm up to 68F for the post-ferm dry hop. The beer had finished out at 1.022 before the soft crash, and I had to let the dry hop go for ~5 days since it had clearly started fermenting again with the hop addition. It ended up finishing at 1.017.

Overall, I think the beer dry hopped at fermentation temp was less heavy/sweet, but seemed to have some yeast/fermentation off flavor that I believe was due to either the secondary fermentation or having to leave the beer on the dry hops for longer while waiting for it to finish. On the other hand, I'd be pretty concerned if I had the need/desire to ship a beer that only got a cold post-ferm dry hop, knowing there's the potential for a 5 point drop if it were to warm up to fermentation temps during the transport. Ideally, I'd find a process that could get me to a lower FG in the 1.015-1.018 range with a shorter, post-ferm dry hop without a "secondary" fermentation or risk of bottle bombs, but haven't quite figured it out yet.
 

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I saw a similar drop in my last NEIPA with LA3 and a post-fermentation dry hop. I didn't get quite the hop character I was looking for in my previous NEIPA with a cold post-ferm dry hop at 50F, so on this one, I did a soft crash to 50F after fermentation, but let the beer warm up to 68F for the post-ferm dry hop. The beer had finished out at 1.022 before the soft crash, and I had to let the dry hop go for ~5 days since it had clearly started fermenting again with the hop addition. It ended up finishing at 1.017.

Overall, I think the beer dry hopped at fermentation temp was less heavy/sweet, but seemed to have some yeast/fermentation off flavor that I believe was due to either the secondary fermentation or having to leave the beer on the dry hops for longer while waiting for it to finish. On the other hand, I'd be pretty concerned if I had the need/desire to ship a beer that only got a cold post-ferm dry hop, knowing there's the potential for a 5 point drop if it were to warm up to fermentation temps during the transport. Ideally, I'd find a process that could get me to a lower FG in the 1.015-1.018 range with a shorter, post-ferm dry hop without a "secondary" fermentation or risk of bottle bombs, but haven't quite figured it out yet.
In the hop and brewschool they advice to add a small dose during ferment to ferment out the extra creep sugars, according to them 1oz is enough.
 

secretlevel

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I saw a similar drop in my last NEIPA with LA3 and a post-fermentation dry hop. I didn't get quite the hop character I was looking for in my previous NEIPA with a cold post-ferm dry hop at 50F, so on this one, I did a soft crash to 50F after fermentation, but let the beer warm up to 68F for the post-ferm dry hop. The beer had finished out at 1.022 before the soft crash, and I had to let the dry hop go for ~5 days since it had clearly started fermenting again with the hop addition. It ended up finishing at 1.017.

Overall, I think the beer dry hopped at fermentation temp was less heavy/sweet, but seemed to have some yeast/fermentation off flavor that I believe was due to either the secondary fermentation or having to leave the beer on the dry hops for longer while waiting for it to finish. On the other hand, I'd be pretty concerned if I had the need/desire to ship a beer that only got a cold post-ferm dry hop, knowing there's the potential for a 5 point drop if it were to warm up to fermentation temps during the transport. Ideally, I'd find a process that could get me to a lower FG in the 1.015-1.018 range with a shorter, post-ferm dry hop without a "secondary" fermentation or risk of bottle bombs, but haven't quite figured it out yet.
Interesting, how long did you cold crash for? I've shipped plenty of beers and never had gushers or exploding ones, thankfully.
 

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Force carbed sample of leftovers after kegging this today. After having a bottle of @Dgallo flockin juicy, I thought Id take a stab at this hop combo going for the pineapple/tropical theme. Went with Bru-1 (50/50 mix of t90 and lupomax), Citra Lupomax, and Vic Secret for the DH in a 2:1:1 ratio. 10oz total, 5oz for each dry hop dose. Definitely like this a lot. Got nice pineapple but a good bit of passionfruity//citrus sweetness on the backend too. Never DH this much either. Seems a little muted atm, but we will see as it develops in the next 7-14 days as it carbs and conditions. Really smooth and drinkable now though with zero harshness. Thanks @Dgallo for the hop combo!
IMG_0831 (1).jpg


IMG_0833.jpg
 

cheesebach

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In the hop and brewschool they advice to add a small dose during ferment to ferment out the extra creep sugars, according to them 1oz is enough.
I had considered doing something like this - probably with a US hop like citra/mosaic/I7 to help reduce the chances for hop burn that I've noticed can come with the AUS/NZ hops when added during the ferment. Interesting to see that some are recommending it as a standard practice to prevent hop creep post fermentation. I'll likely give this a try with 1oz on my next NEIPA.

Interesting, how long did you cold crash for? I've shipped plenty of beers and never had gushers or exploding ones, thankfully.
I did a 2 day "cold crash" at 50F for the beer that I noticed the post-fermentation hop creep on. I started the 48hr timer after the beer was at the target temp as measured by my Tilt inside the fermenter. One thing that might have played a factor is that I split the dry hop into 2 additions - the first 3oz went in the fermenter (with the yeast/trub still in the vessel, but "crashed" to settle it out), and the remaining 6oz went in after second crash down to 54F and transfer to a dry hop keg.

So it is a possibility that if I had transferred the beer off the yeast before the 1st dry hop I wouldn't have seen the large drop in final gravity. However, based on what I understand of how hop creep works and my experiences using the amyloglucosidase enzyme believed to be responsible for it (in a brut IPA), the conversion/fermentation rate of the process seems to be limited more by the enzyme activity than the amount of yeast available, so I have my doubts that transferring before adding the dry hops would have changed the result.

Now that I'm thinking about it, another really easy experiment to try on a future batch would be doing a cold post-ferm dry hop, transferring the beer to serving keg, and then bottling a few bottles to leave at room temp for a couple weeks to see if they turn into gushers (or explode).
 

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Has anyone tried using fresh wet hops for this style? I think it could work for a big whirlpool addition.
Welp, I’m about to find out! 2 pounds of chinook (fresh picked this AM) went in the whirlpool this morning. It had a really nice but subtle sweet grapefruit aroma. Still deciding what to dry hop it with, thinking citra and 586, haven’t used a lot of chinook before View attachment 742376View attachment 742377
How’s this one coming along?
 

ihavenonickname

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How’s this one coming along?
Finished fermenting, the sample the other day had that same delicate grapefruit aroma in the flavor, really nice. I’ve always liked a little bit of that “green” hop flavor so I’m hopeful I’m gonna like what the fresh hop adds. Planning to cold crash and dry hop w citra, galaxy and chinook pellets.
 
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