New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[echoALEia]

nice. what are the ratios of the individual strains? same pitch time or staggered? temp?

most importantly, were you able to get a good read on the blend's ester profile before the hops took over?

I hope my last post helps a little. My starting ferm temps were 64 day 1 I believe then upped it to 66 on day 2 then let it go when I dry hopped.

 

[wepeeler]

Any difference in attenuation or time to complete fermentation between the two batches?

No difference. Same OG, FG and fermentation time and temps. Only difference was the DH schedule.

Thanks for sharing the results. Sounds like a strike against the DH at high krausen...

I am still trying to experiment with a small DH on Day 3.5, near the end of fermentation. But I also do another 2-3 days before bottling. Doing a pretty cold final DH right now (bottling on Sunday). It's at 53 degrees (I was going for 58; I use ice, so it's not a precise system). I think Janish suggested even trying to DH during cold crashing, so we'll see how this turns out...

I guess I'll know more after a few more batches. Really trying to nail my process down. Janish mentions soft crashing before DH, but also states that he does indeed DH during some fermentation, for O2 scrubbing (just later during fermentation, not say day 1 or 2).

I was really under the impression that stable haze was produced with earlier DH, so this was cool to see in action. Hoping to do a few more of these mini "exbeeriments" in the future. Fun stuff.

 

[marchuk96]

I disagree. There has been a huge shift here in the west to push the evolution of wcipa. As much as I enjoy classics like two hearted, blind pig etc. the landscape has been changing by going away from things like crystal malts, cascade/ctz, huge ibu additions and only using chico.
Everyday I am finding new examples of "new school" "modern" wcipa. As much as purists of the style might balk, these beers are currently some of my favorite to brew/drink, and in my opinion this new iteration of wcipa has a lot left to be explored and discussed.

If you wouldn't mind expanding on the changes in "new school" west coast ipas I'd love to hear about what is different versus traditionaly styled ones

 

[jturman35]

Not trying to be a tampon, but I wouldn’t derail this NEIPA thread talking about WCIPA’s.

 

[Dgallo]

*deleted post* didn’t want to discourage anyone from posting here

 

[jturman35]

Wait a minute, What the hell is a West Coast IPA? For some reason I was thinking Brut IPA which is a totally different style due to the dryness.

Sorry for my ignorance, but not sure I even get WCIPA’s down in the Southeast. Also don’t see anything listed under 2015 BJCP guidelines. But they also don’t list NEIPA either. With this said, I do feel this thread is intended for NEIPA style.

 

[VirginiaHops1]

Wait a minute, What the hell is a West Coast IPA? For some reason I was thinking Brut IPA which is a totally different style due to the dryness.

Sorry for my ignorance, but not sure I even get WCIPA’s down in the Southeast. Also don’t see anything listed under 2015 BJCP guidelines. But they also don’t list NEIPA either. With this said, I do feel this thread is intended for NEIPA style.

It's not a BJCP style. Basically the "west coast IPA' moniker came along when brewers took the old school American IPA and decreased the malt/SRM and upped the IBUs and hops. Think Stone and Russian River

 

[Wrinkletusk]

I personally wouldnt use the terpene oils only for your dryhop.
The distilled oils i've experimented with are very strong and have a totally different hop character and better used supplemental to dry hop additions.
Also a pain to get them properly mixed in.

I had a barth haas incognito colab as well, it didnt taste any different then the usual beers from the same brewer.

Interested to hear your report.

The beer has been in the keg for two weeks now.

It was one of *those* brew days. 2 hour mash because of dog duties, Incognito was truly messy, OG was short by 17 points!? and I forgot to add yeast nutrient and Whirflock. Only good thing was my new SS immersion chiller worked really well.

I ended up using a drill and mash paddle to get a vigorous whirlpool going at 70c after I managed to get the incognito into the wort. This worked for the most part.

This brings me on to fermentation... 4th gen Omega DIPA decided to throw rihno farts for the first time (WTF). Happened when it got to 1.020ish. Thinking it may have something to do with the lack of copper during chilling, but infection is always possible.

As for the kegged and conditioned beer... Initial samples during the first week were rhino farts front and center in the aroma, and a distinct grain/hop flavour separation. I could easily pick out the Sabro at this point and also the flex (sort of minty) . Currently, the rhino fart aroma has mostly dissipated, and the malt and hops have come together nicely, but to add insult to injury, I add too much of the terpenes (probably 0.3ml too much) and now it's got a slick chemically mouthfeel to it that definitely isn't welcome.

At one point during the terpene dosing period, the beer smelled and tasted like an orange creamcicle which was awesome, but I over did it at the end of the day.

Lesson learned, and next week's brew is featuring Incognito again, new yeast and actual hops for the dry hop.

 

[Dgallo]

The beer has been in the keg for two weeks now.

It was one of *those* brew days. 2 hour mash because of dog duties, Incognito was truly messy, OG was short by 17 points!? and I forgot to add yeast nutrient and Whirflock. Only good thing was my new SS immersion chiller worked really well.

I ended up using a drill and mash paddle to get a vigorous whirlpool going at 70c after I managed to get the incognito into the wort. This worked for the most part.

This brings me on to fermentation... 4th gen Omega DIPA decided to throw rihno farts for the first time (WTF). Happened when it got to 1.020ish. Thinking it may have something to do with the lack of copper during chilling, but infection is always possible.

As for the kegged and conditioned beer... Initial samples during the first week were rhino farts front and center in the aroma, and a distinct grain/hop flavour separation. I could easily pick out the Sabro at this point and also the flex (sort of minty) . Currently, the rhino fart aroma has mostly dissipated, and the malt and hops have come together nicely, but to add insult to injury, I add too much of the terpenes (probably 0.3ml too much) and now it's got a slick chemically mouthfeel to it that definitely isn't welcome.

At one point during the terpene dosing period, the beer smelled and tasted like an orange creamcicle which was awesome, but I over did it at the end of the day.

Lesson learned, and next week's brew is featuring Incognito again, new yeast and actual hops for the dry hop.

My guess is it was sulfur from stress. If you run into this issue again with yeast is throwing it, leave it in the fermenter without dry hoping and keep it on the warmer side. It should degas itself and leave the beer

 

[beervoid]

The beer has been in the keg for two weeks now.

It was one of *those* brew days. 2 hour mash because of dog duties, Incognito was truly messy, OG was short by 17 points!? and I forgot to add yeast nutrient and Whirflock. Only good thing was my new SS immersion chiller worked really well.

I ended up using a drill and mash paddle to get a vigorous whirlpool going at 70c after I managed to get the incognito into the wort. This worked for the most part.

This brings me on to fermentation... 4th gen Omega DIPA decided to throw rihno farts for the first time (WTF). Happened when it got to 1.020ish. Thinking it may have something to do with the lack of copper during chilling, but infection is always possible.

As for the kegged and conditioned beer... Initial samples during the first week were rhino farts front and center in the aroma, and a distinct grain/hop flavour separation. I could easily pick out the Sabro at this point and also the flex (sort of minty) . Currently, the rhino fart aroma has mostly dissipated, and the malt and hops have come together nicely, but to add insult to injury, I add too much of the terpenes (probably 0.3ml too much) and now it's got a slick chemically mouthfeel to it that definitely isn't welcome.

At one point during the terpene dosing period, the beer smelled and tasted like an orange creamcicle which was awesome, but I over did it at the end of the day.

Lesson learned, and next week's brew is featuring Incognito again, new yeast and actual hops for the dry hop.

Thanks for reporting back and sorry to hear it didny went without bumps. Live and learn! Good luck with the next brew

 

[beervoid]

Hey all

Sorry to get a little off topic, but here are two different beers I brewed, the one on the left is just with IOY Juice and the right is a blend of S33, K97, and WB06. Both were cask conditioned with F2. The grists are fairly similar (basically 38% malted oats, the rest rahr 2 row, Munich II, And carafoam). The SRM for both are 5.5 (next time I’m going higher). The hops on the left are Galaxy, Citra, Mosaic, and Amarillo, the right are Strata, Citra, and Idaho7. I’ve used the recipe on the left and won a competition with it and if I was drinking it by itself, I would crush and love it as a NEIPA.

That being said, the one on the right blows it away in terms of aroma, taste, and color (no, the one on the left is definitely not oxidized). It’s much more tropical fruit all around and reminds me of my favorites from EQ, OH, and monkish. Not quite treehouse yet but I think less hops might make it more like their core beers. Hope this helps in your search of yeast. Cheers!

View attachment 668555

Sounds good but since you used different hops in both batches I wouldnt jump to the conclusion that the yeast combo was making the difference.
Thanks for sharing your experience.

 

[SanPancho]

Id say its more about the change from old school pacific northwest ipas like redhook, full sail, sierra nevada, elysian, etc. Base malt with caramel, c type hops, fairly bitter to counter the crystal malt.
Then it becomes lighter by losing the crystal and just using darker base in its place like vienna or munich, or a bit of toasted like victory/aromatic/biscuit. now with some new school hops for a bit of aroma/flavor to mix with the c hops. No more sweet crystal notes so mostly less bitter, but not always. Then Once the ibu wars stop, it becomes about those new school hop flavors, which eventually leads to......neipa.

you dont get to neipa without going thru wcipa. One style jumps off from the other.

id say its not a thread jack, per se. More of a historical review detour.

 

[SanPancho]

You really need to disperse the extract. Whirlpool wont cut it. Better to use a pump to really beat it into the wort- think emulsify. Try and dose it right into the pump during whirlpool. A drill might work, but id be a bit skeptical due to fact it’ll cling to paddle, kettle walls, etc.

and then any large pools of it will grab yeast and floc it and drop. You may need to over pitch to get good ferment. (Or normal pitch if you like to typically underpitch). Thats why dispersing it is really important from what we can tell.

wouldn’t surprise me if losing yeast to the oil, plus no nutrients to help it cope caused the stress dgallo mentions.

Ordered terpenoids as well, havent used yet. But you definitely should start by using them as 50% swap for hops to start. Then get bolder if you want. Or at least have some actual hops in the mix. The terps and essences dont provide any mouthfeel at all. Its noticeable when you use them as replacement instead of supplements.

 

[beervoid]

Ordered terpenoids as well, havent used yet. But you definitely should start by using them as 50% swap for hops to start. Then get bolder if you want. Or at least have some actual hops in the mix. The terps and essences dont provide any mouthfeel at all. Its noticeable when you use them as replacement instead of supplements.

50% is way too high in my experience. Look at cryo as a middle step and that is recommended at max 20% of the hopbill to keep flavor close to pellets.
I would say the terpenoids are much lower then this.

 

[Dgallo]

Tapped a NE Double IPA 8.7% Thursday evening. Used the last of my Hornindal for it, grain to glass 8 days with a dbl Dh. Hopped with Sabro, Azacca, Mosaic, and Columbus. It was fermented on Pineapple Purée.

First impression is that it’s good but still has hopburn on the finish that takes away from the pineapple. Little to no coconut notes even though I used 4oz of sabro. Will report back

 

[Wrinkletusk]

You really need to disperse the extract. Whirlpool wont cut it. Better to use a pump to really beat it into the wort- think emulsify. Try and dose it right into the pump during whirlpool. A drill might work, but id be a bit skeptical due to fact it’ll cling to paddle, kettle walls, etc.

and then any large pools of it will grab yeast and floc it and drop. You may need to over pitch to get good ferment. (Or normal pitch if you like to typically underpitch). Thats why dispersing it is really important from what we can tell.

wouldn’t surprise me if losing yeast to the oil, plus no nutrients to help it cope caused the stress dgallo mentions.

Ordered terpenoids as well, havent used yet. But you definitely should start by using them as 50% swap for hops to start. Then get bolder if you want. Or at least have some actual hops in the mix. The terps and essences dont provide any mouthfeel at all. Its noticeable when you use them as replacement instead of supplements.

I hear ya. I wouldn't say I had pools of incognito in the wort, but it wasn't integrated 100%, more like very finely mottled. Fermentation followed the previous three generations to a tee (based on tilt readings), but yeah, stress is definitely a possibility.

I'll give incognito one more try now I know what to expect and what it brings to the table, but I'll be holding way back on the terps.

 

[aaronm13]

Tapped a NE Double IPA 8.7% Thursday evening. Used the last of my Hornindal for it, grain to glass 8 days with a dbl Dh. Hopped with Sabro, Azacca, Mosaic, and Columbus. It was fermented on Pineapple Purée.

First impression is that it’s good but still has hopburn on the finish that takes away from the pineapple. Little to no coconut notes even though I used 4oz of sabro. Will report back View attachment 668713

Looks delicious man. What was your grain bill on that one?

 

[Dgallo]

Looks delicious man. What was your grain bill on that one?

Ready for this? This was a no boil, dme beer with steeping grains while whirlpooling

6lb Pilsner extra lite dme
3lb Bav. Wheat DME
2lb malted oats steeped
1lb Pilsner malt steeped

Total brew day with clean up 1hr 30 minutes

 

[jturman35]

Dgallo I see you bit the bullet and went for it with 4oz of Sabro. Can’t wait to see how your beer turns out.

I just kegged my Simcoe/Amarillo beer last Tuesday. The hydro sample was crushable, however the keg hop gave a touch of hop bite. I had my cleanest transfer with zero clogs. I didn’t rush this beer and kegged it on day 15. I used cryo for the first time in the keg. I’m real stingy with my beer and this is the second half pour.

 

[aaronm13]

Ready for this? This was a no boil, dme beer with steeping grains while whirlpooling

6lb Pilsner extra lite dme
3lb Bav. Wheat DME
2lb malted oats steeped
1lb Pilsner malt steeped

Total brew day with clean up 1hr 30 minutes

Wow, glad I asked now. Really impressive looking and all cleaned up in 90 minutes, great job. Do you find malted oats better than the flaked/rolled variety? Seen a few people recommend them now.

 

[SanPancho]

50% is way too high in my experience. Look at cryo as a middle step and that is recommended at max 20% of the hopbill to keep flavor close to pellets.
I would say the terpenoids are much lower then this.

Based on our experience with similar products 50% is fine. Although i should clarify thats for a particular variety. Never used it for halving the entire hop bill. A small batch trial will obviously be the answer.

on side note, it seems these are priced on a basis that makes them similar to expensive cool-kid hops by recommended dosing rates. Some cheaper, some costlier. Gives me the impression that concentrations are made to sort of “match up” to hop prices per lb. also means they aren’t supposed to be full replacement.

 

[Dgallo]

Wow, glad I asked now. Really impressive looking and all cleaned up in 90 minutes, great job. Do you find malted oats better than the flaked/rolled variety? Seen a few people recommend them now.

On paper, they seem like they would be better but through my own experience I’m not sure. Hoping this beer and then next will help answer that. I do believe I get more hop burn with malted oats but again that only based off a few beers so not enough to say definitively.

 

[SanPancho]

I hear ya. I wouldn't say I had pools of incognito in the wort, but it wasn't integrated 100%, more like very finely mottled. Fermentation followed the previous three generations to a tee (based on tilt readings), but yeah, stress is definitely a possibility.

I'll give incognito one more try now I know what to expect and what it brings to the table, but I'll be holding way back on the terps.

You notice alot of very dark yeast sediment? Ours even had thin films in shapes where you could tell it had formed against the fermenter and piping. Really weird.
Still tastes great tho.

 

[aaronm13]

On paper, they seem like they would be better but through my own experience I’m not sure. Hoping this beer and then next will help answer that. I do believe I get more hop burn with malted oats but again that only based off a few beers so not enough to say definitively.

Interested to know what your results are. I use flaked oats and am happy with the results so I guess I should leave well enough alone.

 

[beervoid]

Based on our experience with similar products 50% is fine. Although i should clarify thats for a particular variety. Never used it for halving the entire hop bill. A small batch trial will obviously be the answer.

on side note, it seems these are priced on a basis that makes them similar to expensive cool-kid hops by recommended dosing rates. Some cheaper, some costlier. Gives me the impression that concentrations are made to sort of “match up” to hop prices per lb. also means they aren’t supposed to be full replacement.

Which product was that? And how did you get it into solution?
I have a bunch of distilled from glacier hop ranch. The oils are too chemical harsh hop like for me.

 

[SanPancho]

Which product was that? And how did you get it into solution?
I have a bunch of distilled from glacier hop ranch. The oils are too chemical harsh hop like for me.

Those things were gross. We were given the sampler set and every one we tried in a pint of beer was horrible, they all tasted the same. Chemically and resinous. Didn’t try to thin them tho. Just didn’t seem worth it.

 

[beervoid]

Those things were gross. We were given the sampler set and every one we tried in a pint of beer was horrible, they all tasted the same. Chemically and resinous. Didn’t try to thin them tho. Just didn’t seem worth it.

So do you mind sharing which oils worked for you at 50%?

 

[Wrinkletusk]

You notice alot of very dark yeast sediment? Ours even had thin films in shapes where you could tell it had formed against the fermenter and piping. Really weird.
Still tastes great tho.

Aye, I've noticed some Incognito making it into the collected yeast:



That's why I'm starting with a fresh batch of yeast for the next brew.

Despite the slick chemically note from the terpenes, the incognito definitely delivers on the flavour. Not a bad looking beer either:



Just in case anyone is interested, I put a total of 0.7ml of Maniacal Yeast's Strata terpenes into ~18L. I think I would have been happy with 0.3ml to add a slight background note, but it's not a dry hop replacement strategy.

 

[jturman35]

Straight up Orange juice. Not really what I was going for, but also not too bad. Equal parts Amarillo/Simcoe. This is the first batch I used 2lbs white wheat and beer seems more opaque than previous batches. Has an oxidized look. I doubled my grain bill on the white wheat from 1-2lbs. It looks like I used a crap load of honey malt, however I only used 6oz.

Does this look oxidized to you guys? I ferment under pressure in a conical and do a closed transfer.

View attachment 668930

 

[SanPancho]

Aye, I've noticed some Incognito making it into the collected yeast:

View attachment 668890

That's why I'm starting with a fresh batch of yeast for the next brew.

Despite the slick chemically note from the terpenes, the incognito definitely delivers on the flavour. Not a bad looking beer either:

View attachment 668897

Just in case anyone is interested, I put a total of 0.7ml of Maniacal Yeast's Strata terpenes into ~18L. I think I would have been happy with 0.3ml to add a slight background note, but it's not a dry hop replacement strategy.

were you able to pick out what the terpenes did vs the incognito? or too hard using both products at same time?

now that we've reviewed dosage rates and crunched numbers the terpenes are looking like they really only offer the benefit of loss reduction. since they're priced (on average) at what the $/lb rates are for the actual hops i dont see a huge reason to use alot. loss reduction is great, but dealing with weird chemical notes isnt. makes me a bit apprehensive.