New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk:

secretlevel

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2019
Messages
224
Reaction score
145
Location
Chicago, IL
I had a local beer that used 2021 Galaxy in it. They aren’t the best producer of ipas so it hard to say for certainty how good it is but it did not have any not characteristic flavors or aromas.

Because of tht I took the chance and ordered a lb
I'm sure that most of the growers are aware that some of their previous crops of Galaxy were less than ideal. Just like the kitty pee Citras and Simcoes of the past, I'm hoping that these farms can pivot and make the necessary changes quick enough.

I'm not saying this batch is going to be stellar, but I'm just as hopeful as you and just bought some Galaxy as well :D
 

nebulabrewing

Dan M.
Joined
Nov 26, 2016
Messages
75
Reaction score
181
Location
Jacksonville
My latest hazy is still conditioning but pulled a sampler. Strong notes of berry, tangerine, and pineapple. My first time using Verdant yeast. My go-to is 1318.

OG: 1.059
Post-boil ph: 4.9
Exp FG: 1.012
ABV: 6.1%
Water profile:
CA: 127,
MG: 13,
Na: 24,
S04: 126,
CL: 197,
HCO: 16

Malt
9# Simpsons Golden Promise
2# white wheat
1.5# flaked oats

Hot side hops: Citra, Mosaic, Simcoe
Cold side hops: Citra, Bru-1, Sabro

Two packs of Verdant yeast at 67F

584AFA5F-6A2C-4DAB-96DB-E8C87D574052.jpeg
 

kingmatt

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2010
Messages
1,289
Reaction score
888

Oh yeah, here we go.
I just got a pack of this in the mail and am trying to put together a recipe for it.

I found this BA presentation on Thiol development but have to admit that I'm not smart enough to decipher it without hearing the entire presentation (probably not even then):

https://www.brewersassociation.org/...iol-Precursors-in-Different-Hop-Varieties.pdf

It seems like they found Cascade and Simcoe are high in thiol precursors and Sabro, Citra & Mosaic are high in free thiols but it is not clear to me on exactly what that means on a practical level. Would Cascade and Simcoe be best to use in the mash and Sabro Citra & Mosaic better to use in the whirlpool/dry hop?

I also found this post from Scott Janish where he used Columbus as the precursor and Southern Cross/Nelson as thiol drivers (I think?):

Thiol Driver - Scott Janish

Anyone smarter or more experienced in this than me want to provide some clarification/recommendation on which hops to use, and when, to maximize the effects of this "thiolzed" yeast?
 

HopsAreGood

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2019
Messages
666
Reaction score
921
Location
New Jersey
I just got a pack of this in the mail and am trying to put together a recipe for it.

I found this BA presentation on Thiol development but have to admit that I'm not smart enough to decipher it without hearing the entire presentation (probably not even then):

https://www.brewersassociation.org/...iol-Precursors-in-Different-Hop-Varieties.pdf

It seems like they found Cascade and Simcoe are high in thiol precursors and Sabro, Citra & Mosaic are high in free thiols but it is not clear to me on exactly what that means on a practical level. Would Cascade and Simcoe be best to use in the mash and Sabro Citra & Mosaic better to use in the whirlpool/dry hop?

I also found this post from Scott Janish where he used Columbus as the precursor and Southern Cross/Nelson as thiol drivers (I think?):

Thiol Driver - Scott Janish

Anyone smarter or more experienced in this than me want to provide some clarification/recommendation on which hops to use, and when, to maximize the effects of this "thiolzed" yeast?
Curious about this as well. I think a lot of people on here are going to be excited to try this yeast out. My LHBS just got it in stock so I’m going to get some soon.

To answer your question though...,I’d suggest emailing omega directly. I’ve emailed them with questions a few times over the past few years and they have always replied pretty quickly with a thorough answer. I’m sure they’ll be happy to guide you in the right direction.
 

chieftain

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2016
Messages
145
Reaction score
49
Location
Boston
I just got a pack of this in the mail and am trying to put together a recipe for it.

I found this BA presentation on Thiol development but have to admit that I'm not smart enough to decipher it without hearing the entire presentation (probably not even then):

https://www.brewersassociation.org/...iol-Precursors-in-Different-Hop-Varieties.pdf

It seems like they found Cascade and Simcoe are high in thiol precursors and Sabro, Citra & Mosaic are high in free thiols but it is not clear to me on exactly what that means on a practical level. Would Cascade and Simcoe be best to use in the mash and Sabro Citra & Mosaic better to use in the whirlpool/dry hop?

I also found this post from Scott Janish where he used Columbus as the precursor and Southern Cross/Nelson as thiol drivers (I think?):

Thiol Driver - Scott Janish

Anyone smarter or more experienced in this than me want to provide some clarification/recommendation on which hops to use, and when, to maximize the effects of this "thiolzed" yeast?
Not sure I can give you meaningful advice, but I just brewed an NEIPA this weekend with this yeast, using Bru-1, Nectaron, and Nelson Sauvin on the hot side; likely Galaxy, Bru-1 on cold side. It's chugging along at 70 degrees. I say brew what you like, and then you can always tweak next time around to see if different hops lend more or less "punchiness." That's my plan, anyway.
 

stickyfinger

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2009
Messages
2,250
Reaction score
589
Location
Hudson Valley
That explains why Omega used Cascade in the mash in the article I linked above. I'd also like to know which hops have a lot of bound thiols. I think I'd just throw in a bunch of Cascade the first time. The yeast should also release thiols from the malt, so any usage of the yeast would be interesting.

I just got a pack of this in the mail and am trying to put together a recipe for it.

I found this BA presentation on Thiol development but have to admit that I'm not smart enough to decipher it without hearing the entire presentation (probably not even then):

https://www.brewersassociation.org/...iol-Precursors-in-Different-Hop-Varieties.pdf

It seems like they found Cascade and Simcoe are high in thiol precursors and Sabro, Citra & Mosaic are high in free thiols but it is not clear to me on exactly what that means on a practical level. Would Cascade and Simcoe be best to use in the mash and Sabro Citra & Mosaic better to use in the whirlpool/dry hop?

I also found this post from Scott Janish where he used Columbus as the precursor and Southern Cross/Nelson as thiol drivers (I think?):

Thiol Driver - Scott Janish

Anyone smarter or more experienced in this than me want to provide some clarification/recommendation on which hops to use, and when, to maximize the effects of this "thiolzed" yeast?
 

echoALEia

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Messages
89
Reaction score
66
Location
Philadelphia
I’m not sure if it’s adding hops in the mash, cosmic punch, or both, but there is definitely something to it because this is the best NEIPA I’ve made to date. I added cascade in the mash and accounted for approximately 10 AA according to beersmith. I’m going to be playing with these numbers in the future for sure.
 

Attachments

Noob_Brewer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2019
Messages
1,028
Reaction score
1,819
So looking to brew an NEIPA with Sundew yeast. Haven't seen much really on this yeast through searching on the HBT forum. Perhaps its not that inspiring lol. Anyhow, the specs on the yeast show a wide range of attenuation: 72-85%. Curious what some peeps got from this strain to help with my planning. Some have suggested this yeast needs a good bit of O2 given its parentage too - check. Temps appear normal to me between 64-78. Big Krausen and fast - check. So attenuation seems to be the wild card here as that's a big wide range. Thoughts?

Also wondering if anyone ever got the red berry/strawberry from this yeast. Thinking of pairing with Citra/Strata and leaving out I7 for hop combos. Strata has always claimed to give some strawberry although Ive never really gotten it myself. Thoughts on hop pairing?
 

R.A.I.D

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2020
Messages
134
Reaction score
69
I’m not sure if it’s adding hops in the mash, cosmic punch, or both, but there is definitely something to it because this is the best NEIPA I’ve made to date. I added cascade in the mash and accounted for approximately 10 AA according to beersmith. I’m going to be playing with these numbers in the future for sure.
How much cascade did you add to the mash for a 5G batch?

What hops did you use hot and cold side?
 

echoALEia

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Messages
89
Reaction score
66
Location
Philadelphia
How much cascade did you add to the mash for a 5G batch?

What hops did you use hot and cold side?
I don’t do 5 gallon batches but I think about 2oz of cascade in the mash and I used equal amounts of Citra Galaxy and Nelson hot and cold. I’ll look later and see. I’m sure there is plenty of room to play with when it comes to mash hopping - the pictures in the Omega article looked like they used a lot more than me because when I added the mash hops I couldn’t even tell they were in there. Wound up doubling it up because I had more alpha acid room.
 

R.A.I.D

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2020
Messages
134
Reaction score
69
This is second time cascade is mentioned within a short period of time. Last time was @Dgallo. What motivated you to use it in the brew below? I haven't seen it much in neipas until now.

It was a double batch hotside
- Bittered to 30 ibus with Columbus t90 @ 60 & 10. I think it totaled 1 oz at 60 and 2 oz at 10


Whirlpool
4 oz Cascade LUPOMAX
4 oz Columbus LUPOMAX @ 160*f for 30

Dryhop FV1
5 oz of enigma
2.5 oz of mosaic LUPOMAX
2.5 oz of Nelson.

Dryhop FV2
2 oz Bru1 LUPOMAX
3 oz Bru1 t90
2.5 oz Vic Secret
2.5 oz Citra LUPOMAX
 

Frieds

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2019
Messages
113
Reaction score
118
Getting some serious FOMO here. Very hard to get our hands on Omega in Australia.
 

Shenanigans

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2013
Messages
1,024
Reaction score
181
This is second time cascade is mentioned within a short period of time. Last time was @Dgallo. What motivated you to use it in the brew below? I haven't seen it much in neipas until now.
That's a good point.
Why is cascade not popular at all for this style?
I want to clone an NEIPA that has Loral in it (which I don't have) and was thinking of doing a mix of cascade and melon as a substitute.
Maybe there are better options but I want to use up the melon for sure.
 

secretlevel

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2019
Messages
224
Reaction score
145
Location
Chicago, IL
I’m not sure if it’s adding hops in the mash, cosmic punch, or both, but there is definitely something to it because this is the best NEIPA I’ve made to date. I added cascade in the mash and accounted for approximately 10 AA according to beersmith. I’m going to be playing with these numbers in the future for sure.
That looks fantastic! Good stuff. What was your attenuation with Cosmic Punch like? The website quotes same as LA3 (71-75%), but mine is at 82% as of today. Same with my buddy who is also trying it...
 

Dgallo

If you ain’t first, you’re last Ricky Bobby
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jan 15, 2017
Messages
5,055
Reaction score
9,530
Location
Albany
This is second time cascade is mentioned within a short period of time. Last time was @Dgallo. What motivated you to use it in the brew below? I haven't seen it much in neipas until now.
I use cascade a decent amount in the style. I specifically use it to add a true distinctive American hop profile in the beer. I think it really helps make a cohesive beer. I do the same with Columbus, especially when I want a dank/earthy.

Using both hotside has helped bring more depth and complexity when you don’t just want a juice bomb
 

Dgallo

If you ain’t first, you’re last Ricky Bobby
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jan 15, 2017
Messages
5,055
Reaction score
9,530
Location
Albany
That's a good point.
Why is cascade not popular at all for this style?
I want to clone an NEIPA that has Loral in it (which I don't have) and was thinking of doing a mix of cascade and melon as a substitute.
Maybe there are better options but I want to use up the melon for sure.
It is certainly popular in this style by professional brewers. Lots of places don’t list all the hops. Or if they do sometimes they say a mix of American hops. Cascade is especially popular in ny with breweries that hold farm brewer licenses as they get tax incentives for using a certain percent of ny grown products.
 

Shenanigans

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2013
Messages
1,024
Reaction score
181
It is certainly popular in this style by professional brewers. Lots of places don’t list all the hops. Or if they do sometimes they say a mix of American hops. Cascade is especially popular in ny with breweries that hold farm brewer licenses as they get tax incentives for using a certain percent of ny grown products.
OK thanks for the insight.
Now I feel better now about adding it to my next NEIPA :p
I probably just got the wrong feeling about it because it's not discussed about as much in this thread as the newer trendy hops and very few of the commercial versions I have seen here (Germany/Netherlands) mention it on their bottles/cans when they list the hops used.
 

ThatVideoKid

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 28, 2015
Messages
1,520
Reaction score
223
Location
Appletown
I just got a pack of this in the mail and am trying to put together a recipe for it.

I found this BA presentation on Thiol development but have to admit that I'm not smart enough to decipher it without hearing the entire presentation (probably not even then):

https://www.brewersassociation.org/...iol-Precursors-in-Different-Hop-Varieties.pdf

It seems like they found Cascade and Simcoe are high in thiol precursors and Sabro, Citra & Mosaic are high in free thiols but it is not clear to me on exactly what that means on a practical level. Would Cascade and Simcoe be best to use in the mash and Sabro Citra & Mosaic better to use in the whirlpool/dry hop?

I also found this post from Scott Janish where he used Columbus as the precursor and Southern Cross/Nelson as thiol drivers (I think?):

Thiol Driver - Scott Janish

Anyone smarter or more experienced in this than me want to provide some clarification/recommendation on which hops to use, and when, to maximize the effects of this "thiolzed" yeast?
That's a good point.
Why is cascade not popular at all for this style?
I want to clone an NEIPA that has Loral in it (which I don't have) and was thinking of doing a mix of cascade and melon as a substitute.
Maybe there are better options but I want to use up the melon for sure.
Its not popular because there’s no hype.

I like using cascade quite a bit on the hot side, and sometimes a small amount of the dry hop. I find it balances out the hops that are just str8 fruit.
 

wepeeler

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
May 31, 2018
Messages
864
Reaction score
1,279
Location
CT

On sale for only $380!
 

Dwaynehaze

Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2021
Messages
14
Reaction score
16
Getting my two packs of punch tomorrow

Doing a 5 gallon batch 5 ozs of cascade in the mash and 2 ozs each citra mosaic in the wp. Thinking about just skipping my usual first dh after ferm and just doing 1 with 4 ozs of cryo pop hops and 2 ozs galaxy
 

Andre3000

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2017
Messages
285
Reaction score
148
Location
Seattle
If you want one that gets better with age, look no further than the Idaho7 / Galaxy fermented with Chico. Here it is at 8 weeks.

PXL_20210805_005911623.jpg


Super simple:
80% 2-row
10% Chit (ala Janish)
10% White wheat

150:75 CL:SO4

Idaho 7:
.25 oz FWH
6 oz @ 180F WP for 15 min

DH: (hop cannon preloaded at pitch and purged with ferm CO2) 59F soft crash:
6 oz Galaxy

Yeast:
Imperial Flagship A07 (small starter, pitched at high krausen)

This was good, aggressive and weird for the first six weeks. Now it's just good, 8 weeks from brew day.

After brewing with LA3 for so long, it's so crazy obvious when you take the first sip that this is Chico. It just presents so much differently. The goal was to mimic Cloudburst. I just love how they dry their beers out and yet you can sit there and smash their delicious 7% IPAs all night. They use A30 Corporate and Imperial said Flagship (Chico) was a similar profile. I'm digging the more transparent hop expression vs LA3.

I plan to try this with Conan next.
 

Noob_Brewer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2019
Messages
1,028
Reaction score
1,819
That looks fantastic! Good stuff. What was your attenuation with Cosmic Punch like? The website quotes same as LA3 (71-75%), but mine is at 82% as of today. Same with my buddy who is also trying it...
wow that's a big difference in estimated AA to what you are experiencing north of 80%.
 

beervoid

Hophead & Pellet Rubber
Joined
Jan 4, 2017
Messages
1,110
Reaction score
248
Location
Europe
If you want one that gets better with age, look no further than the Idaho7 / Galaxy fermented with Chico. Here it is at 8 weeks.

View attachment 737918

Super simple:
80% 2-row
10% Chit (ala Janish)
10% White wheat

150:75 CL:SO4

Idaho 7:
.25 oz FWH
6 oz @ 180F WP for 15 min

DH: (hop cannon preloaded at pitch and purged with ferm CO2) 59F soft crash:
6 oz Galaxy

Yeast:
Imperial Flagship A07 (small starter, pitched at high krausen)

This was good, aggressive and weird for the first six weeks. Now it's just good, 8 weeks from brew day.

After brewing with LA3 for so long, it's so crazy obvious when you take the first sip that this is Chico. It just presents so much differently. The goal was to mimic Cloudburst. I just love how they dry their beers out and yet you can sit there and smash their delicious 7% IPAs all night. They use A30 Corporate and Imperial said Flagship (Chico) was a similar profile. I'm digging the more transparent hop expression vs LA3.

I plan to try this with Conan next.
I was never able to achieve stable haze eith chico based strains. Did you dry hop during ferment at all?
 

Andre3000

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2017
Messages
285
Reaction score
148
Location
Seattle
I was never able to achieve stable haze eith chico based strains. Did you dry hop during ferment at all?
I think it just must be the golidlocks zone of grist protein content and dry hop load. I wonder if the Galaxy had something to do with it.

What does your hop cannon set up look like?


I'm pretty OCD about oxidation. It has enough ports that I can spund, connect my CO2 to force transfer to serving keg via floating dip tube all without connecting or disconnecting hoses.
 

ThatVideoKid

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 28, 2015
Messages
1,520
Reaction score
223
Location
Appletown
Anyone reduce pH to ~4.6 before whirlpool or before primary?

Just saw a guy on Reddit insisting its a big improvement to the style and "the big guys are doing it". Something about better oil extraction or something, but I cant find anything. The only thing I've ever seen is reducing pH before packaging to counter the pH increase from hopping.

I'm going to assume its nothing since I haven't seen anything previously, and don't see Janish mention it at all. If anything Janish seems to believe that the ~5.0 post-boil pH is ideal as far as extracting haze goes.

edit: a small comment on Janish's "A Look at pH in Hoppy Beers" article from a brewer, but nothing substantial.

edit2: I see monkish is adjusting their post-boil pH, but theyre shooting for 5.0, which is pretty typical and homebrewers are generally around there anyways since they have a much, much higher boiloff rate than the big boys.
 
Last edited:

Dgallo

If you ain’t first, you’re last Ricky Bobby
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jan 15, 2017
Messages
5,055
Reaction score
9,530
Location
Albany
Anyone reduce pH to ~4.6 before whirlpool or before primary?

Just saw a guy on Reddit insisting its a big improvement to the style and "the big guys are doing it". Something about better oil extraction or something, but I cant find anything. The only thing I've ever seen is reducing pH before packaging to counter the pH increase from hopping.

I'm going to assume its nothing since I haven't seen anything previously, and don't see Janish mention it at all. If anything Janish seems to believe that the ~5.0 post-boil pH is ideal as far as extracting haze goes.

edit: a small comment on Janish's "A Look at pH in Hoppy Beers" article from a brewer, but nothing substantial.

edit2: I see monkish is adjusting their post-boil pH, but theyre shooting for 5.0, which is pretty typical.
@couchsending has ph targets for various stages throughout the process, so he’ll most likely be able to chime in

I don’t adjust again after pitching yeast but have noticed that almost all my beers finish 4.2-4.6 ph with that upper ranging seeming to produce the best beers
 
Last edited:

Shenanigans

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2013
Messages
1,024
Reaction score
181
Mosaic sale! $14/lb Mosaic Hops
That's a great deal.
I was stoked to be able to get 1kg for 40 euro here in Europe a few weeks ago but that works out about $22 a pound and I had to buy a kilo (2.2 pounds) to get that price.
I can get a 1kg of the newer German varieties (Melon, Calista, Mandarina, Blanc) for 16 euro a kilo though which works out about $8.50 a pound.
In general malt seems to be cheaper here too, so it's swings and roundabouts I guess.

Sorry for going off topic :rolleyes:
 

couchsending

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jun 21, 2016
Messages
2,927
Reaction score
1,934
I would think the amount of acid needed to adjust to around 4.6 before WP might have a flavor impact in the beer. I’ve never read anything specifically about extraction of specific hop compounds at certain pH values on the hotside.

Lower the pH the less bitterness extraction...

5.0-5.1 is ideal for knockout pH but that’s more for fermentation/yeast reasons than anything else.
 

Dgallo

If you ain’t first, you’re last Ricky Bobby
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jan 15, 2017
Messages
5,055
Reaction score
9,530
Location
Albany
My local brewery owner/brewer just picked got some spectrum in and is going to us it pretty soon so I’ll chat with him about it and try the beer and report back on it. That said I’m sure we’ve had it in OH and EQ beers for a while now and they always test HAAS products
0A68B91A-FD05-45EA-BC7F-C319E43CCC0E.png
 

Noob_Brewer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2019
Messages
1,028
Reaction score
1,819
That looks fantastic! Good stuff. What was your attenuation with Cosmic Punch like? The website quotes same as LA3 (71-75%), but mine is at 82% as of today. Same with my buddy who is also trying it...
@secretlevel just got one of these pouches in the mail today. Pretty excited to try it out. Curious as to your pitch rate, whether or not you used dextrose, and oxygenation at pitch. Ive used Imperial Juice once and had a higher pitch rate, used 8oz of dextrose, and oxygenated more than typical. Thanks
 

Latest posts

Top