New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[SRJHops]

Off topic really quick - anyone here know about neipa breweries in Austin? Will be down there next weekend and having a hard time finding anything.

Southern Heights is awesome. They had something like 6 NEIPAs on tap when I was there in March. Pinthouse Pizza makes a pretty decent one too, called Electric Jellyfish. Zilker is also worth checking out.

 

[NickC]

Southern Heights is awesome. They had something like 6 NEIPAs on tap when I was there in March. Pinthouse Pizza makes a pretty decent one too, called Electric Jellyfish. Zilker is also worth checking out.

Thanks! Hadn’t seen southern heights yet, so will def check them out while I’m there. I’ve had EJ and def planning to have one while I’m there.

 

[beervoid]

From experience I don’t think that’s true. I know guys who Ive had beers from that keg hop their IPAs and I never experienced a raw hop flavor. However I have experienced the green raw hops flavors if someone dryhops at too high a rate per gallon

Did they keg hop at low temps? or high then drop the temp?. I one time added hops in a crashed keg I was already serving to try to amp up the hop flavor and I definately extracted more grassy notes.

 

[Dgallo]

Did they keg hop at low temps? or high then drop the temp?. I one time added hops in a crashed keg I was already serving to try to amp up the hop flavor and I definately extracted more grassy notes.

It was the serving keg. So 37 degrees roughly. Could be varietal specific too

 

[SRJHops]

Anyone else brewing this weekend?

 

[stickyfinger]

Gotcha. I do beer trades with a guy from Austin that always sends me beers from them so I just figured that’s where they were located. Sorry brother.

in my experience any hops added to the keg after cooling and carbonation result in vegetal flavors, every time

 

[Dgallo]

in my experience any hops added to the keg after cooling and carbonation result in vegetal flavors, every time

I can only speak from the guy at the lhbs that adds whole cone Columbus and citra to his serving kegs in a weighted nylon back. I haven’t experienced it from his beer and I’ve trued them 3 times now. Granted he’s brewing west coast IPAs but I would still think I would detect it.

 

[beervoid]

I can only speak from the guy at the lhbs that adds whole cone Columbus and citra to his serving kegs in a weighted nylon back. I haven’t experienced it from his beer and I’ve trued them 3 times now. Granted he’s brewing west coast IPAs but I would still think I would detect it.

Thats surprising if anything whole cones have even more vegetal matter then pellets so you would expect more green extraction.

 

[Dgallo]

Thats surprising if anything whole cones have even more vegetal matter then pellets so you would expect more green extraction.

I’m not doubting anyone’s experience by any means. If you experienced grassiness from cold dryhoping vs. room temp then that’s all that matters. I don’t cold dryhop personally, regardless its extra step and another risk of oxidation. I did find this which was kind of interesting, take it for what it is worth http://brulosophy.com/2016/06/27/warm-dry-hop-vs-cold-keg-hop-exbeeriment-results/

 

[couchsending]

There’s a pretty big range of temps from fermentation to keg temp. Some people’s idea of dry hopping cold might be 60 or it might be 50 or 45?

Depending on your yeast and how well it floccs you might have to cool the beer down quite a big to get more yeast out of suspension. The difference between dry hopping at 50 vs 60 with the same variety might be rather dramatic?? I usually stick around 60.

When someone says cold it doesn’t always mean serving temp. It could mean colder than their first dry hop or colder than fermentation.

 

[ttuato]

I have read to Chapter 8 of Janish book so far - lots of great info and science explanation behind what we do (be warned - very scientific language used at times). I won't provide a bunch of spoilers but I do want to point out interesting process tweaks based on scientific tests regarding yeast / fermentation schedule for Ale yeast & dry hopping for NEIPA to increase esters & reduce unwanted non-fruity hop oils or astringency from polyphenols. (This is not overtly stated in book - I pieced this together.)

• Overpitch yeast - leads to increased esters (this was new info to me - not sure I will try this though)
  
• Pitch warm (3-5 degrees higher than top of your specific yeast temp range) and continue chilling to desired temp ---- leads to increased esters and possibly greater glycerol (max glycerol production in first 18hrs) (this was new info to me- definitely gonna do this since summer)
• Ferment on the warm side of the schedule - (temp that highest on scale for your yeast - usually 72-74) - increases fruity esters (no surprise here)
• Approximately 60hrs after pitch yeast, DROP the temp to lowest temp for your specific yeast (usually 60-64*) - leads to significant increase in esters. (this was new info to me - for sure gonna do this). Hold this low temp for approximately two days and add first small dryhop (no more than 3-4oz & make sure to do LODO process)
• This should have you around day 5-6. Allow the temp to freerise back to the high end of the ferm schedule for the yeast (~72-74) hold this for 5 days add another small dryhop if desired (no more than 2-3oz & make sure to do LODO process
• Day 10-11 - Crash it to around 58* hold for a day for the yeast to crash then add final dryhop (no more than 3-4oz & make sure to do LODO process). After 24hr crash completely - get the beer transferred off the final dryhop in under 48hrs
• In case you didn't notice the recommendation is small dryhop charges spread across 2-3 charges, including a biotrans dryhop - this reduces astringency from polyphenols & "green" hop oils and increases extraction efficiency of the hops - in turn this makes the beer drinkable sooner. (Not necessarily new info but I am gonna try the triple dryhop instead of my usual double to see if different).

There are few other pearls that I have gathered too. The above has me the most excited so far to try with NEIPAs and some process tweaks to improve my lager brewing that I learned. I strongly recommend everyone add this book to their brewing library.

 

[beervoid]

There’s a pretty big range of temps from fermentation to keg temp. Some people’s idea of dry hopping cold might be 60 or it might be 50 or 45?

Depending on your yeast and how well it floccs you might have to cool the beer down quite a big to get more yeast out of suspension. The difference between dry hopping at 50 vs 60 with the same variety might be rather dramatic?? I usually stick around 60.

When someone says cold it doesn’t always mean serving temp. It could mean colder than their first dry hop or colder than fermentation.

He was talking about serving temps.
The brewer I talked to dry hopped at 14c.

 

[NickC]

Saw @Dgallo oat creme ipa a few weeks back and decided I wanted to try more oat malt. First pour looks just like what I am after. Hard to tell how taste is going to turn out since I just transferred from fermenter today, but I think I’ll be sticking with more oat malt going forward.

Grain bill -
30% oat malt
30% 2 row
30% GP
5% GNO and
5% flaked barley

Yeast -
London Fog (also first time I’ve used this yeast, fermented using dgallos schedule)

2 weeks post kegging and the brew is hitting its stride. Def better over the past couple of days vs where it started early on. Aroma has been there, but flavor is really just now starting to come out.

 

[Genuine]

So far the Citra, mosaic and Idaho 7 in the dryhop is hitting all the right notes for me. I mashed at 156 and this batch ended at 1.020...and I gotta say, I don’t mind it at all.

 

[SRJHops]

I have read to Chapter 8 of Janish book so far - lots of great info and science explanation behind what we do (be warned - very scientific language used at times). I won't provide a bunch of spoilers but I do want to point out interesting process tweaks based on scientific tests regarding yeast / fermentation schedule for Ale yeast & dry hopping for NEIPA to increase esters & reduce unwanted non-fruity hop oils or astringency from polyphenols. (This is not overtly stated in book - I pieced this together.)

• Overpitch yeast - leads to increased esters (this was new info to me - not sure I will try this though)
  
• Pitch warm (75-80) and continue chilling to desired temp ---- leads to increased esters and possibly greater glycerol (max glycerol production in first 18hrs) (this was new info to me- definitely gonna do this since summer)
• Ferment on the warm side of the schedule - (70-72ish) - increases fruity esters (no surprise here)
• Approximately 60hrs after pitch yeast, DROP the temp to 60* - leads to significant increase in esters. (this was new info to me - for sure gonna do this). Hold this temp for approximately two days and add first small dryhop (no more than 3-4oz & make sure to do LODO process)
• This should have you around day 5-6. Allow the temp to freerise to the high end of the ferm schedule for the yeast (~72) hold this for 5 days add another small dryhop if desired (no more than 2-3oz & make sure to do LODO process
• Day 10-11 - Crash it to around 50* hold for a day for the yeast to crash then add final dryhop (no more than 3-4oz & make sure to do LODO process). After 24hr crash completely - get the beer transferred off the final dryhop in under 48hrs
• In case you didn't notice the recommendation is small dryhop charges spread across 2-3 charges, including a biotrans dryhop - this reduces astringency from polyphenols & "green" hop oils and increases extraction efficiency of the hops - in turn this makes the beer drinkable sooner. (Not necessarily new info but I am gonna try the triple dryhop instead of my usual double to see if different).

There are few other pearls that I have gathered too. The above has me the most excited so far to try with NEIPAs and some process tweaks to improve my lager brewing that I learned. I strongly recommend everyone add this book to their brewing library.

Can't wait to read it! Regarding that drop to 60 after 60 hours.... Doesn't that run the risk of stopping fermentation? Or is it drop to the low end of the yeast's range? For example, a24 Dry Hop has a range of 64 to 74.

Good news is I did pitch warm at 75 on Sunday, and I certainly overpitched!

 

[ttuato]

Can't wait to read it! Regarding that drop to 60 after 60 hours.... Doesn't that run the risk of stopping fermentation? Or is it drop to the low end of the yeast's range? For example, a24 Dry Hop has a range of 64 to 74.

Good news is I did pitch warm at 75 on Sunday, and I certainly overpitched!

Correct

I think those temps were based on generic ale yeast info. I would adjust according to your specific strain data (I will edit iriginal post to reflect so less confusing - thanks for call out). So for a24 - Set target of 73-74 for first three days. Pitch around 80 while continuing to chill to target. After 60ish hours from pitch, drop temp to bottom of range - 64 for a24 yeast - hold for two days at 64, afterwards allow to freerise back to upper end for 5-6 days.

I edited iriginal post - also fixed typo toward end - soft crash to 58* not 50 before adding final dryhop.

 

[ttuato]

One more plug for Janish book - at the end he interviews several commercial hazy brewers. Common theme regarding hopping schedule:

• Small bittering charge happens always (science shows target of 25IBUs from boil)
• Most common whirlpool amount is 1lb/bbl (0.5oz per gal) - Sapwood highest at 2lb/bbl (1oz/gal)
• Most common dryhop is 2-3lbs/bbl (1-1.5oz/gal)

Not necessarily new info per se but validating all the great experience from folks on this thread.

One very strong point made and reiterated many times throughout book via scientrific measures, tasting panel, brewers experience, etc - whirlpool hopping is an absolute must for hop saturated/layered flavor.


Also - buy stock in Chit malt...

 

[VirginiaHops1]

Also - buy stock in Chit malt...

Him and Tonsmeire love that stuff. I need to figure out if it's that much better than carafoam or carapils and worth going out of my way to get.

 

[SRJHops]

Him and Tonsmeire love that stuff. I need to figure out if it's that much better than carafoam or carapils and worth going out of my way to get.

Agreed. My LHBS doesn't carry chit malt, but they have carafoam. I used it on Sunday, so too early to know if I will be able to tell the difference.

 

[ttuato]

Him and Tonsmeire love that stuff. I need to figure out if it's that much better than carafoam or carapils and worth going out of my way to get.

It does make a difference in foam quality/denseness vs carafoam (never used carapils) BUT lacing seems comparable and I have not noticed any difference in body/haze like they suggest could happen.

Another tidbit on this topic from book - caramel malts have increased metal ions from malting proces vs chit malt. Metal ions contribute to faster oxidation. That is enough to make me wanna use it vs carafoam/carapils.

 

[isomerization]

Janish’s book is available on Amazon, just picked up a copy myself, looking forward to the read!

He has a nice rundown of the chapters (330+ pages!) on his blog too in case you’re on the fence.

 

[Dgallo]

My latest NEIPA, switch up the water profile and grain bill. Also step mashed at 148 and then 162

Water;
Ca:90
Mg:19
Na:73
So4: 89
Cl:178

Grains:
1.5% carapils
3.5% honey malt
15 % red wheat
80% 2 row

Hops;
Citra/Mosiac f.o & Whirlpool
Citra/Chinook dryhop

Happy with it so far and it was just kegged yesterday. Interested to see it condition. Really digging the body so far. Only complaint is I should have upped the IBUS

 

[VirginiaHops1]

Do you think the step mash made a difference? I have 2 batches finishing up with Conan yeast right now and I'm going to brew 2 more batches next week and put them directly on the yeast cakes. But I was going to do single infusion mash for one batch and step mash for the other(with identical grain bills and water) to see what difference it makes.

 

[Dgallo]

Do you think the step mash made a difference? I have 2 batches finishing up with Conan yeast right now and I'm going to brew 2 more batches next week and put them directly on the yeast cakes. But I was going to do single infusion mash for one batch and step mash for the other(with identical grain bills and water) to see what difference it makes.

I would like to say yes but I can’t say with any confidence since I changed my water profile as well. But the beer is soft on th palate.

what you plan to do is def going to give us a better idea

 

[Andre3000]

A few pages back there was some back and forth on the supposed oxidized beer color boogeyman.

Awhile back I did a super unscientific test. Excuse the poor lighting, and I checked the time stamp on the photos, you're looking at the same beer, but the one on the left spent no more than 17 hours on the counter and we have a fresh pour on the right.

So yes. The drastic "copper" color change is very real.

 

[Andre3000]

Looking for some hop recommendations on a "milkshake" style IPA. It will be a blood orange / grapefruit / lemon / lime citrus mess with vanilla and lactose.

Of the ones I've got in bulk that I think would be appropriate for this beer:

Amarillo
Laurel
Mosaic
Citra
Cascade
Simcoe

My initial thought was just 1:1 Cascade / Amarillo in the WP / DH but now I'm wondering if other combos might be better:

100% Cascade WP - Citra / Mosaic DH?
Cascade / Amarillo WP - Citra / Mosaic / Amarillo DH?

Basically looking for advice from anyone who has a lot of experience with a "citrusy" combination of the above.

Cheers!

 

[Dgallo]

Looking for some hop recommendations on a "milkshake" style IPA. It will be a blood orange / grapefruit / lemon / lime citrus mess with vanilla and lactose.

Of the ones I've got in bulk that I think would be appropriate for this beer:

Amarillo
Laurel
Mosaic
Citra
Cascade
Simcoe

My initial thought was just 1:1 Cascade / Amarillo in the WP / DH but now I'm wondering if other combos might be better:

100% Cascade WP - Citra / Mosaic DH?
Cascade / Amarillo WP - Citra / Mosaic / Amarillo DH?

Basically looking for advice from anyone who has a lot of experience with a "citrusy" combination of the above.

Cheers!

Mosiac, citra, Denali and Sabro

 

[Dgallo]

Mosiac, citra, Denali and Sabro

*edit* just reread your question more carefully. I listed great milkshake ipa hops. From your list citra simcoe and cascade hotside will aid citrus notes. Then citra, Amarillo, cascade dryhop.

If you’re willing to pick up another hop moteuka has a great citrus character in the dryhop

 

[Andre3000]

*edit* just reread your question more carefully. I listed great milkshake ipa hops. From your list citra simcoe and cascade hotside will aid citrus notes. Then citra, Amarillo, cascade dryhop.

If you’re willing to pick up another hop moteuka has a great citrus character in the dryhop

Thanks. Sortof in my line of thought as well.

I had a really bad experience with a massive motueka dry hop. Granted the hops were old and there might have been something else going on but they left massive grassy astringency in the beer. One of the only beers I've had to dump.

 

[Dgallo]

Thanks. Sortof in my line of thought as well.

I had a really bad experience with a massive motueka dry hop. Granted the hops were old and there might have been something else going on but they left massive grassy astringency in the beer. One of the only beers I've had to dump.

Those nz and aus are full of polyphenols and notorious for the astringent hop burn if used really heavy in the dryhop. I had a really nice experience dryhoping with motueka and citra in the past. Think I did 3 oz motuek 2 oz citra. Nice tropical fruit and like Meyer lemon.

Keep me post on the blend you choose, really interested in seeing how it turns out. I love milkshake style IPAs. I was really happy with the one I did