New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[1bottlerocket]

Agree with this 100%. I brewed one of my recipes at a smaller brew pub that didn't have the hops on hand that we needed. They bought a few boxes (with sealed 22# bags in them) from one of the larger breweries here in MD. It's been a few years, but I believe they said they purchased them from Flying Dog. Anyway, that was the best version of my beer that I've ever brewed and the only difference was the hops. Credit to the brewery, they even contacted RVA yeast labs and got a pitch for the batch because that's what I was using at the time.

What form were the hops?

I have been watching a few videos of hop selection process and it looks pretty sophisticated. I can imagine if you have a big contract you can get the top shelf pick.

I didn’t realize what a big industry it is and I can imagine that it is exploding right now with the popularity of the American style.

 

[SRJHops]

There are a lot great yeast out there for this style. I’ve tried almost all of the common on but I have to give credit where credit is due, A24 is the star of the show for me. If you haven’t tried it yet, you have too

I almost grabbed A24 last time (grabbed A38 Juice instead), but I plan to take your advice and use it for my next brew. Could you share any tips? I was slightly scared off by the warning that it needed a lot of oxygen to start. I feel like I do a good job with aeration and have never had a problem, but I am doing it without an oxygenation kit/stone.

 

[Dgallo]

I almost grabbed A24 last time (grabbed A38 Juice instead), but I plan to take your advice and use it for my next brew. Could you share any tips? I was slightly scared off by the warning that it needed a lot of oxygen to start. I feel like I do a good job with aeration and have never had a problem, but I am doing it without an oxygenation kit/stone.

A38 is also solid. I don’t do any additional aeration other than racking into my fermenter and allowing it to splash some. Never have had issue. Now if your going to make a beer 1.075 or better, probably wouldn’t hurt to try to get more oxygen in the wort for the yeast

 

[WBCo]

What form were the hops?

Not sure if this is what you mean, but they were T90 pellets.

 

[Sbe2]

You can repitch from overbuilt starters. I don’t know for how long though, I’ve only done 3 generation that way. I didn’t notice any sway in the profile but it’s bound to happen eventually

Glad to hear that it doesn’t sway too early.

 

[Loud Brewing]

We got a chance to visit the White Labs tasting room today and it was quite an experience. For those who don't know, they brew identical beers of a certain style and the only variable is the yeast strain. It is truly amazing how different strains can create a drastically different final product. I have primarily been using 1318 and GY054 in my neipas, but look forward to trying WLP008 now that I really tasted it isolated and saw the low floc. I am also propping up some A24 for my next brewday.

 

[beervoid]

We got a chance to visit the White Labs tasting room today and it was quite an experience. For those who don't know, they brew identical beers of a certain style and the only variable is the yeast strain. It is truly amazing how different strains can create a drastically different final product. I have primarily been using 1318 and GY054 in my neipas, but look forward to trying WLP008 now that I really tasted it isolated and saw the low floc. I am also propping up some A24 for my next brewday.

How would you describe the esters of wlp008 are they close to conans peach esters?

 

[SRJHops]

I have a bit of an esoteric question for discussion, if anyone is interested. It's related to style and recipe formulation. Get the Venn Diagram ready:

If all (good) NEIPA's are Juicy IPA's, are all Juicy IPA's NEIPA's?

I ask because I see the movement away from flaked adjuncts, but also away from the high-protein adjuncts overall (namely wheat and oats). The latest Janish recipe in BYO uses no flaked adjuncts. I also recently watched a video of Tonsmeire making a very clear NEIPA. (He even seemed a little surprised that it was so clear, but he only used 2-row and chit malt. He said it tasted great.)

Flavor is king, and haze is not the goal, but is there a difference between a Juicy IPA and a NEIPA? Or are they the same thing?

 

[marchuk96]

I have a bit of an esoteric question for discussion, if anyone is interested. It's related to style and recipe formulation. Get the Venn Diagram ready:

If all (good) NEIPA's are Juicy IPA's, are all Juicy IPA's NEIPA's?

I ask because I see the movement away from flaked adjuncts, but also away from the high-protein adjuncts overall (namely wheat and oats). The latest Janish recipe in BYO uses no flaked adjuncts. I also recently watched a video of Tonsmeire making a very clear NEIPA. (He even seemed a little surprised that it was so clear, but he only used 2-row and chit malt. He said it tasted great.)

Flavor is king, and haze is not the goal, but is there a difference between a Juicy IPA and a NEIPA? Or are they the same thing?

I'd say there is a correlation between juicy and n.e's and the majority of the time they go hand in hand.. but I think you most certainly can have a clear or clearish ipa and have it be perceived as juicy...to me the juicy terminology is not just the look but feel and flavor of the beer as well...so if you look at a beer that maybe was mashed high and got provided some support with water chemistry it could look as clear as glass but have the body ,sweetness, and perception that u could call juicy...take lagunitas for example...most of there beers are all pretty clear and yet they are so full in body and residual sweetness accompanied with massive hop flavor that I would consider some of them juicy...prime examples being something like the Waldo's or born again yesterday...half acre brewery would be another good example of the same thing..even some stone beers...they are always clear and even finish dry but i think they still could be considered juicy...i think they even use the word juicy on some of there packaging...so IMO I think there can be a difference and the word juicy does fit to other ipas other than just new englands... although I think new england style probably paved the way to the use of the word juicy and now people and breweries have accepted this and started to make that more common terminology when describing the characteristics of what they are perceiving or want you to percieve

 

[LumberZach]

So I was going through some older saved tweets and found this. If anyone here has ever had Bright with Galaxy or BBBright with Galaxy, you'll know that they're both hazy as all get out and to me tastes like Green's cousin. Just something to mess with if you feel like experimenting.

 

[Dgallo]

So I was going through some older saved tweets and found this. If anyone here has ever had Bright with Galaxy or BBBright with Galaxy, you'll know that they're both hazy as all get out and to me tastes like Green's cousin. Just something to mess with if you feel like experimenting.


View attachment 624885

Both solid beers. I understand TH deserves credit where credits due but the gap that them, trillium, and Hill has on the style is pretty much gone. Many breweries are producing the same quality beers that they are. In my option it makes it no longer necessary to wait in line for their beers

 

[JohnnyJohnJohns]

Brewed this last week 50% Galaxy, 50% Centennial, used Ebbegarden Kveik.

It's still got a bit of hop burn but overall a really tasty beer. Would people recommend adding gelatin to the keg or let it sit a while longer to settle out?

20190501_213442

• JohnnyJohnJohns
• May 1, 2019

 

[Dgallo]

Brewed this last week 50% Galaxy, 50% Centennial, used Ebbegarden Kveik.

It's still got a bit of hop burn but overall a really tasty beer. Would people recommend adding gelatin to the keg or let it sit a while longer to settle out?

20190501_213442

• JohnnyJohnJohns
• May 1, 2019

That’s galaxy. Lots of polyphenols. Big dryhops from them the bite tends to stick around 2 weeks.

 

[LumberZach]

Both solid beers. I understand TH deserves credit where credits due but the gap that them, trillium, and Hill has on the style is pretty much gone. Many breweries are producing the same quality beers that they are. In my option it makes it no longer necessary to wait in line for their beers

I was just stating that a simple grain bill of 2Row and some Carafoam can yield a hazy NEIPA without the need for wheat, oats, or any other adjuncts.

 

[Dgallo]

No I know what you were saying. But some people get the impression that’s the only way to make a solid ipa is if your doing the same thing they are doing. You can make a hazy beer with just two row and fermentation dryhoping and then a heavy late dryhop. If you do this the beer will be just as hazy. Oats and wheat should be used for other properties than just haze, like specific mouthfeel and body.

 

[Dgallo]

Sorry if that was ranty, wasn’t supposed to be lol

 

[marchuk96]

So I was going through some older saved tweets and found this. If anyone here has ever had Bright with Galaxy or BBBright with Galaxy, you'll know that they're both hazy as all get out and to me tastes like Green's cousin. Just something to mess with if you feel like experimenting.


View attachment 624885

Weyermann's Carafoam has a high starch content (and enzymes) that requires enzymatic breakdown or else haze could be a problem in the finished beer (it always depend on the quantity used)...maybe they don't mash it from the start and add it in late during mash to promote the haze while also getting some of the other benefits

 

[ttuato]

Janish / Tonismere state that Carafoam is most closely related to Chit malt NOT carapils

Weyermann's Carafoam has a high starch content (and enzymes) that requires enzymatic breakdown or else haze could be a problem in the finished beer (it always depend on the quantity used)...maybe they don't mash it from the start and add it in late during mash to promote the haze while also getting some of the other benefits

 

[SRJHops]

Janish / Tonismere state that Carafoam is most closely related to Chit malt NOT carapils

Good to know. I thought they were basically the same. I have been using carapils. My LHBS has carafoam, but no chit malt. Will switch from carapils and see what happens!

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Chit literally means sprout. Malted means sprouted. Cara means caramel (crystal). Carafoam is known as Carapils everywhere on earth except within the confines of the USA, where Briess was somehow granted a registered trademark on the name. I'm not one who places faith in there being a vastly dramatic difference between the two.

 

[ttuato]

My comment based on this:

http://scottjanish.com/dextrins-and-mouthfeel/

“Weyermann Carafoam (Carapils outside the US) is different than Briess Carapils and is akin to chit malt, high in protein and under-modified.”

“Briess Carapils is a true glassy caramel/crystal malt, albeit one that isn’t roasted enough to develop the color or flavor associated with darker caramel malts”

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

First Scott Janish quoted the "party line" (as you have expressed above). Then in the very next paragraph Scott went on to make a batch of beer with 50% Briess Carapils in the grist, and it fermented quite normally with regard to apparent attenuation as if Briess Carapils was not at all in conformance with the "party line" nature that Briess claimed for it. Thus in effect he was led by hard data to totally refute the party line. His article must not be taken out of context to cherry pick what one wants to hear, but rather it must be read in the context of what actually needs to be heard. It leaves one dangling as to the true nature of Briess Carapils. It thus leaves the door open to the possibility that it might have more in common with Carafoam than Briess wants us to believe.

 

[SRJHops]

First Scott Janish quoted the "party line" (as you have expressed above). Then in the very next paragraph Scott went on to make a batch of beer with 50% Briess Carapils in the grist, and it fermented quite normally with regard to apparent attenuation as if Briess Carapils was not at all in conformance with the "party line" nature that Briess claimed for it. Thus in effect he was led by hard data to totally refute the party line. His article must not be taken out of context to cherry pick what one wants to hear, but rather it must be read in the context of what actually needs to be heard. It leaves one dangling as to the true nature of Briess Carapils. It thus leaves the door open to the possibility that it might have more in common with Carafoam than Briess wants us to believe.

Agree it was a little odd that he was saying carafoam had higher protein, then he went ahead and used carapils for the experiment. I think all he confirmed, though, was that carapils didn't seem to help with mouthfeel very much, but still helped with foam/head retention.

I am not sure if he ever went on to experiment with carafoam, but I bet now he would recommend it over carapils, given his interest in chit malt (if indeed carafoam is more like chit malt than carapils).

Carafoam does seem like a good thing to try if you can't easily find chit malt...

Anyone out there had good results with carafoam?

 

[marchuk96]

Agree it was a little odd that he was saying carafoam had higher protein, then he went ahead and used carapils for the experiment. I think all he confirmed, though, was that carapils didn't seem to help with mouthfeel very much, but still helped with foam/head retention.

I am not sure if he ever went on to experiment with carafoam, but I bet now he would recommend it over carapils, given his interest in chit malt (if indeed carafoam is more like chit malt than carapils).

Carafoam does seem like a good thing to try if you can't easily find chit malt...

Anyone out there had good results with carafoam?

I think i used it way back once and didn't really perceive much of a difference...it also seems like he implied that a better choice would be the use of oats although that is contradictive of his more recent thoughts...for me I think the best n.e. I made used 2 lbs flaked oats and a pound of carapils...combined with a higher mash and water adjustments..it had a really solid and probably best overall feel to any other beer that I've made

 

[SRJHops]

I think i used it way back once and didn't really perceive much of a difference...it also seems like he implied that a better choice would be the use of oats although that is contradictive of his more recent thoughts...for me I think the best n.e. I made used 2 lbs flaked oats and a pound of carapils...combined with a higher mash and water adjustments..it had a really solid and probably best overall feel to any other beer that I've made

That is what I am thinking for my next brew. Going back to some flaked oats. What mash temp did you use? Janish uses 158, which is a lot higher than I have been using...

 

[marchuk96]

That is what I am thinking for my next brew. Going back to some flaked oats. What mash temp did you use? Janish uses 158, which is a lot higher than I have been using...

Have to refer to my notes but like 155/156...I'll check and get back to ya

 

[marchuk96]

Have to refer to my notes but like 155/156...I'll check and get back to ya

In checking my notes...it was actually mashed at 154...golden promise oats and carapils...f.g was a 1.016...ive actually made this beer twice with the same hops but swapped the hop amounts around...fun little experiment with great results

 

[WBCo]

This is still young, about 7 days in the keg, so it might still clear, but I wanted to post it in case anyone was still worried about chasing "haze." This is 12# Briess 2 Row, 1.5# Briess Vienna, 0.5# C40, 0.5# dextrose, high sulfate, low chloride, US-05, one big dryhop after the yeast was removed from the fermentor. Body is not quite the same as a NEIPA, but I mashed a little lower than I do for those.

 

[isomerization]

This is still young, about 7 days in the keg, so it might still clear, but I wanted to post it in case anyone was still worried about chasing "haze." This is 12# Briess 2 Row, 1.5# Briess Vienna, 0.5# C40, 0.5# dextrose, high sulfate, low chloride, US-05, one big dryhop after the yeast was removed from the fermentor. Body is not quite the same as a NEIPA, but I mashed a little lower than I do for those.View attachment 625121

No whirlpool additions?

That’s always what has given me the most “unexpected” haze in the past.

 

[Dgallo]

This is still young, about 7 days in the keg, so it might still clear, but I wanted to post it in case anyone was still worried about chasing "haze." This is 12# Briess 2 Row, 1.5# Briess Vienna, 0.5# C40, 0.5# dextrose, high sulfate, low chloride, US-05, one big dryhop after the yeast was removed from the fermentor. Body is not quite the same as a NEIPA, but I mashed a little lower than I do for those.View attachment 625121

Looks great. Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t the verdict out that haze is formed through the protein/polyphenol attraction and fermentation creates the molecular bond. So as long as both are present at the time of fermentation, haze will be created. Now the extent of how hazy and the length it is in suspension is all based on the amount of both being present and the specific branch of proteins the grains have.

I hope people aren’t just chasing haze for haze, but like I’ve said in the past I make a lot of different NEIPA with different yeast and grains bills just to have some variation in flavor profiles, mouthfeel, and honestly, different looks. For the oatcream and milkshake IPA’s Ive posted, I wanted them as opaque as possible with big bodies. For my standard I want a vibrant color with minimal haze to catch the light but the drinkablity to have them all day long. So IMO It’s all about what your going for and there is no “right way” to create a NEIPA