New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[Dgallo]

But I also use them post fermentation on dry hopped beers (I dry hop loose), for transferring from fermenter to bottling bucket .
There is a steel ring on the opening, and the string isn't a drawstring, it's used to hold or fix the bag somewhere during the transfer.
I ferment in plastic buckets so this kind of bag works nicely for my setup. Of course it's difficult to use such a thing if you are fermenting in carboys.

That’s asking for oxidation issues....

 

[Taket_al_Tauro]

Yeah of course I'm still very, very far from a fancy kegging + closed-transfer setup. But I believe I managed to limit oxidation somehow by keeping the yeast active throughout the process... my last IPA scored really well in a comp over here ( granted, it's not the AHA national comp you guys have over there ), so I assume it was at least not terribly oxidized.
BUT I haven't attempted a neipa yet..., that was a west coastish type IPA...

 

[cheesebach]

No you can't use these for dry hopping. They are meant to be used at racking, especially for the wort after the boil, when transferring from kettle to fermenter. But I also use them post fermentation on dry hopped beers (I dry hop loose), for transferring from fermenter to bottling bucket .
There is a steel ring on the opening, and the string isn't a drawstring, it's used to hold or fix the bag somewhere during the transfer.
I ferment in plastic buckets so this kind of bag works nicely for my setup. Of course it's difficult to use such a thing if you are fermenting in carboys.

They do sound like an interesting option for going from kettle to fermenter. What material are they made of? I assume something that can be sanitized? Or would you need to boil it or something? I wonder how something like that would avoid clogging, since the mesh on bags I’ve used to try this before seems much more coarse than the photo and those definitely clogged.

 

[Taket_al_Tauro]

They do sound like an interesting option for going from kettle to fermenter. What material are they made of? I assume something that can be sanitized? Or would you need to boil it or something? I wonder how something like that would avoid clogging, since the mesh on bags I’ve used to try this before seems much more coarse than the photo and those definitely clogged.

The material is polypropylene with a mesh size of 200 micrometers.
It can stand temperatures up to at least 100 C. So, to sanitize it I either boil it or pressure cook it for a few minutes, usually together with my silicone racking cane.
IME they really don't clog that easily, maybe because they are quite large so with a big surface area.
As said I do a whirlpool and transfer maybe 90% or more of almost clear wort through the bag first. When the real trub comes, it's only for the last few liters of wort. And I'll still leave a good portion of trub back in the kettle.
Under these circumstances the bag never clogged for me.
It doesn't make a huge difference but I think it allows me to save at least a couple liters of wort each time.

 

[Taket_al_Tauro]

That’s asking for oxidation issues....

I'll also add that transferring using such a bag does not cause any more splashing or overall oxygen exposure of the beer than a "normal" transferring to a bottling bucket without using the bag.
Of course I agree that it implies way more oxygen exposure than a closed transfer to keg
One day I may feel adventurous enough to even attempt a neipa on this setup, and if the results are positive, I'll report back. Oh well, even if the beer turns brown!

 

[tld6008]

Woo-hoo, another bottler! Did you get a lot of debris in ALL of the bottles? I fill the hydrometer first to get the FG and it does usually have a fair amount of hop/yeast particles. Then I fill two bombers and label them as the testers to open first to check for carbonation -- they usually have some particles too. But the rest of my bombers (I usually get about 28 for a 6-gallon batch) are usually free of debris.

I tried to make a filter for the carboy spigot (on my Big Mouth Bubbler), but it clogged. I might try something else, but I also might just be OK with the first two bottles having some hop particles. The other option is to try harder to avoid getting kettle hops into the fermenter and bagging the dry hops. I am going to work on the former, but I really don't want to bag the hops.

I'd be interested in hearing how the flavor changes over time. My latest was bottled about 4 weeks ago and it keeps getting better. If it's like my others, it will peak in the next two weeks.

This is what I use to transfer from BK (keggle) to fermentor (carboy) It is stainless mesh I bought on Amazon. It works surprisingly well as long as you slow way down for last gallon so the siphon doesn't break. I used to use the angled pickup (in 1st pic) with a stainless scrubbie for filtering but this screen is much better plus the pickup now is about 1/4" off the bottom. The pitcher has about 1/2 gallon of hops and trub which is typically what remains.

 

[Hannabrew]

Not sure about the nitro vs vacuum seal. I only do it because all of the hop resellers (yakima, farmhouse, hop heaven, etc) purge with nitro and then vacuum

Dry hop just as you describe - under pressure. I currently use Speidel with the norcal gas/prv lid with 20lb spring shown below. Fermenter will hold about 15lbs. I spund with a few points left until FG to get natural carbonation. I release some pressure to add dryhops (that I have to supplement with force carb in keg). No swirling - usually in contact ~36 hours. I learned this process on probrewer forum, supplemented by all of the research that shows extraction of the major hop oils occur within 24hrs. --- I just ordered two Spike Flex+ but will continue the same process as it works wonderfully for me.


View attachment 620614

Ah so you are spunding prior to DHing. I'm always worried about racking fully carbed beer to the serving keg. I know it should be fine with a counter pressure fill but sounds like it could go south easily.

 

[SRJHops]

Yes - trub has a fining effect on the beer. Positive / negative ions --- a bunch of chemistry stuff and research has shown this. I don't remember the papers/links but I think Janish has some stuff on it. Plus if you look at the pics on the brulosophy exbeeriment the trubby beer is noticeably clearer --- accordingly YES it is stripping hop oils from the solution just like yeast when it floccs

Another brulosophy exbeeriment to back this up is the one found here - BIAB vs No Sparge. The BIAB has a bunch of trub in the fermentor and noticed after FG it is significantly clearer than the No Sparge version. As it goes on you see more haze in the BIAB version - not sure what this is - but read on to see the author say this about the BIAB (trubby batch):
"I perceived it as being generally less characterful with notably less hop flavor, while it finished with a slightly sticky, almost cloying quality."

I cannot say for certain this perceived less hop was due to the initial trub or not but it makes you think given the fermentor pics.

Furthermore In the discussion they even noted this: On the second evaluation done more recently, I brought along my trusty wife whose prowess in baking and cooking is rivaled only by her strong dislike for beer. Her reaction was quite interesting. We performed 3 semi-blind triangle tests with the beers at keezer temperature and in each case, she was able to identify the odd-beer-out on smell alone, something I simply could not reproduce. In her words, the BIAB beer “did not have as much smell.” She also noted there was “another smell” present in the no sparge beer, which I presume might be a stronger hop character.

read more here about trub - links to the sciencey stuff are available here too if you wanna click around and read it for yourself (thanks @couchsending for flagging this to me):
http://www.lowoxygenbrewing.com/brewing-methods/trub-seperation-why-and-how/

Awesome info -- thanks so much! I think this makes it pretty clear that for NEIPA's it's best to keep as much trub out of the fermenter as possible. I suppose it also applies to any hoppy beer, really. Perhaps for other styles it's not as important, and I suppose even an advantage for some in theory. But I'm looking forward to making this process change. I do have a kettle screen that I haven't used yet...

 

[Hannabrew]

It's good practice for the stability of all beer

 

[Genuine]

Just kegged mine today. Ended at 1.015 and used Imperial’s A38! Aroma is amazing, very soft bitterness. A bit green however I’m sure some cold conditioning will help that.

 

[lupulinaddict]

Not sure about the nitro vs vacuum seal. I only do it because all of the hop resellers (yakima, farmhouse, hop heaven, etc) purge with nitro and then vacuum

Dry hop just as you describe - under pressure. I currently use Speidel with the norcal gas/prv lid with 20lb spring shown below. Fermenter will hold about 15lbs. I spund with a few points left until FG to get natural carbonation. I release some pressure to add dryhops (that I have to supplement with force carb in keg). No swirling - usually in contact ~36 hours. I learned this process on probrewer forum, supplemented by all of the research that shows extraction of the major hop oils occur within 24hrs. --- I just ordered two Spike Flex+ but will continue the same process as it works wonderfully for me.


View attachment 620614

Did you modify, or buy a new spring? I can’t mine to hold that much pressure. Have been thinking of getting another spring because I am out of threads on the screw.

 

[AnttiLeh]

One week in a bottle, had to try it out. Not much carbon at the moment (in the pic I have already take few sips), but taste and
aroma was overwhelming! I think the color is very nice and theres none of hop/yeast depris. This will be 5/5 beer.

 

[ttuato]

Did you modify, or buy a new spring? I can’t mine to hold that much pressure. Have been thinking of getting another spring because I am out of threads on the screw.

It comes with a 5lb spring. I bought the optional 20lb spring from norcal. FYI - it is the same spring as the ones in the universal poppet replacements on amazon.

 

[lupulinaddict]

It comes with a 5lb spring. I bought the optional 20lb spring from norcal. FYI - it is the same spring as the ones in the universal poppet replacements on amazon.

Thanks. Didn’t know he sold different springs, and I have some poppets laying around!

 

[JohnConnor]

Here's my latest creation as promised. I'm starting a little bit of a blog (mainly for my own reference) which I'll attach with a more in depth review. What we have here is 90% 2-row/10% Vienna. Bittered with columbus. Hopped with mosaic, centennial, and amarillo. Anyone who thinks 60 minute additions don't add flavor, I will fight you. Columbus comes through pretty prevalently. I'm not sure how I feel about it... I tried @Dgallo driving fermentation schedule. The hops bring a lot of orange-y citrus to the table. If I really, really look for it, peach is there (I used 1318). I can't 100% say it did what I wanted to to do but I think it could also be complimenting my hop choices more than standing on it's own. But I will say, the schedule produced probably the most vigorous fermentation I've had in awhile. And it's clean. I also dropped yeast before dry hopping. Again, cleanest representation of hops I've had. I won't be doing "bio hopping" again.

 

[marchuk96]

Here's my latest creation as promised. I'm starting a little bit of a blog (mainly for my own reference) which I'll attach with a more in depth review. What we have here is 90% 2-row/10% Vienna. Bittered with columbus. Hopped with mosaic, centennial, and amarillo. Anyone who thinks 60 minute additions don't add flavor, I will fight you. Columbus comes through pretty prevalently. I'm not sure how I feel about it... I tried @Dgallo driving fermentation schedule. The hops bring a lot of orange-y citrus to the table. If I really, really look for it, peach is there (I used 1318). I can't 100% say it did what I wanted to to do but I think it could also be complimenting my hop choices more than standing on it's own. But I will say, the schedule produced probably the most vigorous fermentation I've had in awhile. And it's clean. I also dropped yeast before dry hopping. Again, cleanest representation of hops I've had. I won't be doing "bio hopping" again.

No other grain??? Just the 2 row and Vienna??How's the feel and body?? Head retention looks great as well as the overall appearance of the beer

 

[SRJHops]

Here's my latest creation as promised. I'm starting a little bit of a blog (mainly for my own reference) which I'll attach with a more in depth review. What we have here is 90% 2-row/10% Vienna. Bittered with columbus. Hopped with mosaic, centennial, and amarillo. Anyone who thinks 60 minute additions don't add flavor, I will fight you. Columbus comes through pretty prevalently. I'm not sure how I feel about it... I tried @Dgallo driving fermentation schedule. The hops bring a lot of orange-y citrus to the table. If I really, really look for it, peach is there (I used 1318). I can't 100% say it did what I wanted to to do but I think it could also be complimenting my hop choices more than standing on it's own. But I will say, the schedule produced probably the most vigorous fermentation I've had in awhile. And it's clean. I also dropped yeast before dry hopping. Again, cleanest representation of hops I've had. I won't be doing "bio hopping" again.

Helluva nice looking beer and photo. If you are willing, could you post the recipe? The simple grain bill is very intriguing. Love to know when you added the hops, amounts, and temps.

 

[Dgallo]

Here's my latest creation as promised. I'm starting a little bit of a blog (mainly for my own reference) which I'll attach with a more in depth review. What we have here is 90% 2-row/10% Vienna. Bittered with columbus. Hopped with mosaic, centennial, and amarillo. Anyone who thinks 60 minute additions don't add flavor, I will fight you. Columbus comes through pretty prevalently. I'm not sure how I feel about it... I tried @Dgallo driving fermentation schedule. The hops bring a lot of orange-y citrus to the table. If I really, really look for it, peach is there (I used 1318). I can't 100% say it did what I wanted to to do but I think it could also be complimenting my hop choices more than standing on it's own. But I will say, the schedule produced probably the most vigorous fermentation I've had in awhile. And it's clean. I also dropped yeast before dry hopping. Again, cleanest representation of hops I've had. I won't be doing "bio hopping" again.

Looks good brother. I’m glad it really worked for your hop character. In my experience the fermentation and esters plays a lot with the overall flavor and aroma of the beer. I feel much of the time people say they aren’t getting the aroma they are looking for, they are overlooking fermentation

 

[JohnConnor]

No other grain??? Just the 2 row and Vienna??How's the feel and body?? Head retention looks great as well as the overall appearance of the beer

Straight meringue bruh. Terrible picture but it gives you the idea. I have head all the way to the bottom. In all honesty, a lot of it is in the pour. Youtube slow pour.

I'm a huge fan of simple. I'm also a huge fan of hazy vs milky. So I tend to leave the flaked stuff out. Sometimes I'll throw 5% wheat malt in there for head retention (I haven't in a while because I'm getting better at the head stuff without it). Mouthfeel is probably my best. But this is also the highest ABV I've ever made which will help in that department.

Recipe:

90% Rahr 2 row
10% Weyermann Vienna

Columbus @ 60 min - 40 IBU
Amarillo @ 20 min - ~20 IBU
Centennial @ 20 min - ~25 IBU
WP 1 oz each Amarillo, Centennial & Mosaic (all cryo) @ 175F for 30 min.
DH 1 oz each Amarillo, Centennial & Mosaic (all cryo) after FG is reached and yeast is dumped.

2 packets 1318 with a vitality starter on brew day with runnings from sparge. Fermented with schedule from previous posts.

 

[SRJHops]

Straight meringue bruh. Terrible picture but it gives you the idea. I have head all the way to the bottom. In all honesty, a lot of it is in the pour. Youtube slow pour.

I'm a huge fan of simple. I'm also a huge fan of hazy vs milky. So I tend to leave the flaked stuff out. Sometimes I'll throw 5% wheat malt in there for head retention (I haven't in a while because I'm getting better at the head stuff without it). Mouthfeel is probably my best. But this is also the highest ABV I've ever made which will help in that department.

Recipe:

90% Rahr 2 row
10% Weyermann Vienna

Columbus @ 60 min - 40 IBU
Amarillo @ 20 min - ~20 IBU
Centennial @ 20 min - ~25 IBU
WP 1 oz each Amarillo, Centennial & Mosaic (all cryo) @ 175F for 30 min.
DH 1 oz each Amarillo, Centennial & Mosaic (all cryo) after FG is reached and yeast is dumped.

2 packets 1318 with a vitality starter on brew day with runnings from sparge. Fermented with schedule from previous posts.

Cool, thanks for sharing. 5 gallon batch? What are your thoughts on Cryo? I used some once but could not really tell if it did anything better/different. But I only used a few ounces...

 

[JohnConnor]

Cool, thanks for sharing. 5 gallon batch? What are your thoughts on Cryo? I used some once but could not really tell if it did anything better/different. But I only used a few ounces...

Yes sir, 5 gallon batch. I'm not 100% sold on them. What I like most of all, I can use half the amount of cryo vs T90 hops which means less soak up. It was a bigger deal when I only had a 7.5 gallon boil pot. Now I have a 15 gallon and can easily compensate. I'll probably try another batch using T90 only to see which I like best. My complaint of cryo is it's super concentrated. To the point that I start to get onion, garlic, and earthy notes that I don't get with normal pellets.

 

[Dgallo]

John kemmich did a great review interview on cryo hops. He thinks they should as a 1:3 ratio to t90. He stared they attribute the most in the whirlpool. Says a beer can benifit by having up to the 40% of the whirlpool hops be cryo and 20% of dryhop. I’ll see if I can find it again. It was in a review of Skaadoosh. Just can’t remember which one.

 

[JohnConnor]

John kemmich did a great review interview on cryo hops. He thinks they should as a 1:3 ratio to t90. He stared they attribute the most in the whirlpool. Says a beer can benifit by having up to the 40% of the whirlpool hops be cryo and 20% of dryhop. I’ll see if I can find it again. It was in a review of Skaadoosh. Just can’t remember which one.

Now that you say that, I remember that one as well. It would be a good approach and one I should try. I definitely don't think I'll use 100% in the dry hop. Even a 50/50 split would help I'd think.

 

[anteater8]

With all the talk of cold crashing and limiting oxygen exposure in this thread, I wanted to share my cheap and effective method of cold crashing while limiting oxygen exposure.

I picked up a t-connector from my LHBS for $3 and a 25 pack of mylar balloons from Amazon for $10. Stick the t-connector into your bung, duct tape the balloon onto one end and hookup your blowoff tube to the other. I had blowoff the first day or two so I attached this on day 3. Once the balloon is full of co2, the rest will bubble out through the blowoff so you don't need to worry about monitoring or timing.

When you cold crash, the vacuum you create will take the co2 from the balloon before sucking liquid up the tube. The balloon holds more than enough co2. I just throw the balloon out afterwards since it only adds 40 cents to my batch cost.

Balloon link: https://www.amazon.com/AKIO-CRAFT-B...mylar+balloon&qid=1554929914&s=gateway&sr=8-9

 

[Hannabrew]

Isn't there air in the balloon prior to attaching it to the fermenter? Without purging the balloon somehow I think it's still introducing some o2. Obviously better than nothing but worth noting unless I'm missing something

 

[anteater8]

Isn't there air in the balloon prior to attaching it to the fermenter? Without purging the balloon somehow I think it's still introducing some o2. Obviously better than nothing but worth noting unless I'm missing something

They are extremely flat when they arrive, and I think they have some sort of one way valve built in to the end so there really isn't any air at all in them. I have to cut the valve off to stick the tube in.

 

[marchuk96]

Isn't there air in the balloon prior to attaching it to the fermenter? Without purging the balloon somehow I think it's still introducing some o2. Obviously better than nothing but worth noting unless I'm missing something

Mylars usually come packed pretty flat...so i doubt there is very much air in them but it wouldn't matter cause as long as you attach it after fermentation has started any air in the balloons would never contact the beer because of the out gasing of co2 already...it would simply just get blown out the blow off tube

 

[Hannabrew]

Mylars usually come packed pretty flat...so i doubt there is very much air in them but it wouldn't matter cause as long as you attach it after fermentation has started any air in the balloons would never contact the beer because of the out gasing of co2 already...it would simply just get blown out the blow off tube

I was referring to during suck back but I didn't don't know mylars have a one way valve and are essentially flat... That makes sense

 

[marchuk96]

I was referring to during suck back but I didn't don't know mylars have a one way valve and are essentially flat... That makes sense

Ahh..gotcha...by that time the balloon would be full of co2 anyway

 

[Dgallo]

So for anyone who was interested in the beer I was talking about last week it is now in the keg, still a little green but here’s a quick review. This is a Oat Cream NEIPA, the style is popularized by Other half in their Dreamwave series. I specifically modeled this beer after the collaboration beer they did with Equilibrium called Dreamwave flocculation This beer has a 60% Pilsner, 30% malted oats, 8% flaked barely, 2% honey malt. It was mashed at 155*f. I whirlpooled with Columbus, Mandarina Bov, and mosaic. Dry hoped with Mosiac and Medusa.

Mouthfeel certainly mimics the Dreamwave flocculation, big yet creamy and pillow soft. Flavor is still a little green but stonefruit and under tones of dank. Aroma is the same leaning more to stone fruit.

Wouldn’t use this grain bill as a standard but certainly provides a different take on the style and brings something special to the lineup.

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