New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[cheesebach]

I abandoned my autosiphon awhile ago. Not sure if it is important, but I could sometimes see a few very small bubbles going into the line. I am assuming it was coming from where the autosiphon inner tube gasket at the bottom seals inside of the outer tube. I am assuming some air was maybe pulling in around there or something. I just use a racking cane now and never see any bubbles. How do I start the flow? If I use pressure, that is easy, if I am not using pressure, I just suck on the end of the line and then hook up my QD and purge the first few mLs then fill through the out post.

I may not have been clear in my previous post, but the only time I use my autosiphon is when going from the BK to the fermenter. I'm about to intentionally introduce oxygen to the wort anyways at that point, so bubbles or not, I don't pay any attention to it, so long as the flow doesn't stop.

It seems to me that it is inevitable that flavor will drop off if you are starting with pretty cloudy beer in the keg. It's going to drop hop particles and yeast to the bottom of the keg, which works fine at first as you drink it but then it's going to reach a point where you're leaving more and more stuff on the bottom where it won't be picked up. I have been experiencing this with my kegs I serve using the CBDS from primary. They start out great and then can go through a kind of mediocre phase then if I serve a bunch they go back into a hazier more flavorful phase as I reach the bottom of the keg and star draining more from the bottom. I'm going to start trying to transfer from my primary kegs to a purged secondary with a dip tube and see if that helps.

If you took two cans of whatever delicious NEIPA of your choice and aged them for a couple months, you'd probably find that if you carefully pour off one and mix the other one, that the mixed one will be much much hazier and more flavorful.

I agree that this is probably a significant factor. Maybe this is actually one area where bottling/canning actually has the upper hand? It's a lot easier to swirl a can a couple minutes before you open it to mix everything up, but doing this with a keg everyday would get old pretty quick. Time for SS brewtech to invent the NEIPA keg SShaker??

I believe I get pretty clean beer transferred to my serving keg. I cold crash under pressure below serving temps for 24-48 hours, don't open the fermenter after crashing so there isn't any racking cane or rotating pickup tube that could rouse up sediment, discard the first pint for a FG sample, and use a stainless steel filter around my dip tube to keep out any hop material that still hasn't dropped after crashing.

With a standard dip tube in the serving keg, it seems the beer with the strongest hop character is going to be at the beginning, clearing up and losing some hop character as you go. With a CBDS, it might seem that it would be a little more consistent, but it doesn't sound like that is necessarily the case in your experience.

I've been thinking about getting the HopStopper 2.0 however does anyone have it on something like the Blichman BrewEasy? I have a similiar 2 Vessel system and worried about the small amount of grain that would be left in the kettle when beginning recirculation.

This is probably the biggest thing that's held me back from getting the Unibrau V3. It seems that it tends to leave behind small pieces of grain after removing the mash basket (probably since it doesn't come with any pickup tube, so whatever falls to the bottom may not get recirculated back on top). I assume adding a pickup tube and filter would only make things worse from that perspective.

 

[Genuine]

This is probably the biggest thing that's held me back from getting the Unibrau V3. It seems that it tends to leave behind small pieces of grain after removing the mash basket (probably since it doesn't come with any pickup tube, so whatever falls to the bottom may not get recirculated back on top). I assume adding a pickup tube and filter would only make things worse from that perspective.

I suppose I could figure out some sort of screen over my whirlpool arm to help catch the first bits of grain that would usually get recirculated to the top of the mash. Here's my carboy after last Friday's transfer to it.

 

[Dgallo]

I suppose I could figure out some sort of screen over my whirlpool arm to help catch the first bits of grain that would usually get recirculated to the top of the mash. Here's my carboy after last Friday's transfer to it.

View attachment 620418

That’s a whole lot of trub making it in your fermenter, brother

 

[ttuato]

That’s a whole lot of trub making it in your fermenter, brother

Strongly agree - oxidation and vegetal flavors galore there friend. If you cant get clean wort from the BK you could always go old school and dump it all fermentor A like the picture, stick in fridge overnight to get it in 50’s to drop all the crap to the bottom then use siphon to transfer the clear wort to another fermenter B, oxygenate and pitch in fermentor B. I had to do it that way when I used to use the grainfather.

 

[mergs]

I missed this

I used @Dgallo 's tip of driving fermentation with 1318

can someone point me to the details?

 

[RTHP99]

I actually just tried this for this up coming beer that should be kegged this weekend. I tried what Equilibrium suggest for their floctuation wave and used 35% malted Oats. I’ll report if it helps the mouth feel and the longevity of the flavor and Aroma

Where did you get that Equillibrium info from ?

 

[Dgallo]

Where did you get that Equillibrium info from ?

Someone posted on here that fluccuation wave and fluccuation Dreamwave are using 50% malted oats. I was too timid to go that high with the percentages

 

[Genuine]

Strongly agree - oxidation and vegetal flavors galore there friend. If you cant get clean wort from the BK you could always go old school and dump it all fermentor A like the picture, stick in fridge overnight to get it in 50’s to drop all the crap to the bottom then use siphon to transfer the clear wort to another fermenter B, oxygenate and pitch in fermentor B. I had to do it that way when I used to use the grainfather.

Here's to hoping it comes out ok!

 

[couchsending]

Does it taste like 50% oats?

Oats have a pretty distinct taste and texture.

I can’t imagine wanting to add that many.

 

[Dgallo]

Does it taste like 50% oats?

Oats have a pretty distinct taste and texture.

I can’t imagine wanting to add that many.

50% sounded really high to me as well. That’s why I have it at 30% which is still 3xs what I’ve ever used before.

You actually responded to the person post about it, stating it had to be malted oats and not flaked oats.

They def have a good portion of oats in it you can taste it. Other half confirms oats on their site with the collab. They also use lactose “to balance it out.” Haven’t decided if I’m going to do a 1/2 lb at kegging or not.

 

[couchsending]

I don’t understand what the motivation is to make things sweeter or thicker? It just makes the beers harder to drink more than one of and your waist line that much bigger.

A finishing gravity of 1.014-1.016 is all
You need to accomplish full, flavorful beer with the correct water profile.

And if you’re using 1318 it adds so much more sweetness at the same FG that any other yeast.

 

[VirginiaHops1]

I don’t understand what the motivation is to make things sweeter or thicker? It just makes the beers harder to drink .

All you really need to understand is some people like it. Commonwealth is a wildly popular brewery in VA and their IPAs tend to be on the thicker, sweeter, heavier side. I don't know if they use a little lactose but it wouldn't surprise me. Aslin is another one that cranks out the thick/super murky IPAs and people can't get enough. It's not always my thing but I do like to get their beers sometimes and see what they're up to.

 

[Dgallo]

I don’t understand what the motivation is to make things sweeter or thicker? It just makes the beers harder to drink more than one of and your waste line that much bigger.

A finishing gravity of 1.014-1.016 is all
You need to accomplish full, flavorful beer with the correct water profile.

And if you’re using 1318 it adds so much more sweetness at the same FG that any other yeast.

Just trying something different and modelled after two respected breweries, Other half and equilibrium. I already have a NE Recipe I’m happy with and serves me well. Wanted to take a stab at an oat cream version of a NE. I am one of those people that like some variations in my NE’s other than simply switching my hops

 

[SRJHops]

That’s a whole lot of trub making it in your fermenter, brother

I was actually thinking about trub on the way to work today, in reference to ttuato's excellent post about reducing oxidation and getting clear wort into the fermenter.

My fermenter tends to look a bit like Genuine's. I have not experienced oxidation or vegetal flavor issues from trub, so I haven't been overly worried about getting a fair amount into the fermenter.

But today I was wondering if the trub is scrubbing out some hop oil when it drops? Or somehow muting the flavor of my NEIPA? (My NEIPA actually tastes pretty good, I think, but I am still chasing the HUGE hop flavor explosion of the best of the best.)

On the one hand, I think the brulosophy trub experiments suggest that trub doesn't really affect flavor and can actually help with fermentation. On the other hand, those experiments suggest that trub can make the beer drop more clear. So, if we are making NEIPAs, perhaps the trub-dropping is also scrubbing out some hop oil? On the other hand, if we cold crash a NEIPA, aren't we scrubbing out some hop oils too?

So, I'm kinda on the fence... Do whatever I can to transfer clear wort to the fermenter, or don't worry too much about it. I'd be interested in your thoughts...

http://brulosophy.com/2015/03/22/the-impact-of-kettle-trub-part-2-exbeeriment-results/

 

[JohnConnor]

I missed this



can someone point me to the details?

Post #8288

 

[AnttiLeh]

Bottled my NEIPA last sunday. Had to leave worktrip so "only" 10 day fermentation and 3,5day cold crash -> strait to bottle
with sugar pills. When i opened the fermbucket i got hit by massive amount of sparkling orange, citrus and flowers, at that point I started to fall in love with NEIPAs.

There was so much hop and yeast debrii that we couldnt get FG. We bottled its fast and forgot to get decent amount of beer
to class for photo. Few drops with hop debrii in the photo, tasted good even then and now just waiting for Easter to pop first one.

Totally 255grams of hops and we got about 16liters of NEIPA.

 

[Dgallo]

I was actually thinking about trub on the way to work today, in reference to ttuato's excellent post about reducing oxidation and getting clear wort into the fermenter.

My fermenter tends to look a bit like Genuine's. I have not experienced oxidation or vegetal flavor issues from trub, so I haven't been overly worried about getting a fair amount into the fermenter.

But today I was wondering if the trub is scrubbing out some hop oil when it drops? Or somehow muting the flavor of my NEIPA? (My NEIPA actually tastes pretty good, I think, but I am still chasing the HUGE hop flavor explosion of the best of the best.)

On the one hand, I think the brulosophy trub experiments suggest that trub doesn't really affect flavor and can actually help with fermentation. On the other hand, those experiments suggest that trub can make the beer drop more clear. So, if we are making NEIPAs, perhaps the trub-dropping is also scrubbing out some hop oil? On the other hand, if we cold crash a NEIPA, aren't we scrubbing out some hop oils too?

So, I'm kinda on the fence... Do whatever I can to transfer clear wort to the fermenter, or don't worry too much about it. I'd be interested in your thoughts...

http://brulosophy.com/2015/03/22/the-impact-of-kettle-trub-part-2-exbeeriment-results/

I usually take brulosophy with a grain of salt, most of the degrade will happen overtime and he typically does an early side by side right after they’re kegged.

I used to not care thinking it had no impact but since I switch to clear wort, or clearest I can do, my longevity and quality have increased

You're right the yeast will strip hop compounds when cold crashing. That is why folks are soft crashing to drop yeast prior to dryhoping

 

[couchsending]

All you really need to understand is some people like it. Commonwealth is a wildly popular brewery in VA and their IPAs tend to be on the thicker, sweeter, heavier side. I don't know if they use a little lactose but it wouldn't surprise me. Aslin is another one that cranks out the thick/super murky IPAs and people can't get enough. It's not always my thing but I do like to get their beers sometimes and see what they're up to.

But if you removed the IG induced FOMO would they actually like it?

“I can only drink one of these cause it’s so sweet and heavy and burns my throat ibut man it smells like guava” 4.5/5

 

[VirginiaHops1]

But if you removed the IG induced FOMO would they actually like it?

“I can only drink one of these cause it’s so sweet and heavy and burns my throat ibut man it smells like guava” 4.5/5

Why do you assume that because someone likes something you don't that they're sheep and aren't thinking for themselves? Seems like an extremely arrogant way to live to me

 

[SRJHops]

I usually take brulosophy with a grain of salt, most of the degrade will happen overtime and he typically does an early side by side right after they’re kegged.

I used to not care thinking it had no impact but since I switch to clear wort, or clearest I can do, my longevity and quality have increased

You're right the yeast will strip hop compounds when cold crashing. That is why folks are soft crashing to drop yeast prior to dryhoping

Does improved quality include better flavor? That is, any flavor difference in trub-ish vs clear-ish?

I do think that, assuming flavor is the same/similar, it seems to make sense to try to go clear, so to speak. But perhaps not to be super obsessed about it?

 

[Dgallo]

Does improved quality include better flavor? That is, any flavor difference in trub-ish vs clear-ish?

I do think that, assuming flavor is the same/similar, it seems to make sense to try to go clear, so to speak. But perhaps not to be super obsessed about it?

Gotta figure that out for yourself brother. Give it a shot and see what you notice. For me quality is always worth it.

 

[SRJHops]

Bottled my NEIPA last sunday. Had to leave worktrip so "only" 10 day fermentation and 3,5day cold crash -> strait to bottle
with sugar pills. When i opened the fermbucket i got hit by massive amount of sparkling orange, citrus and flowers, at that point I started to fall in love with NEIPAs.

There was so much hop and yeast debrii that we couldnt get FG. We bottled its fast and forgot to get decent amount of beer
to class for photo. Few drops with hop debrii in the photo, tasted good even then and now just waiting for Easter to pop first one.

Totally 255grams of hops and we got about 16liters of NEIPA.

Woo-hoo, another bottler! Did you get a lot of debris in ALL of the bottles? I fill the hydrometer first to get the FG and it does usually have a fair amount of hop/yeast particles. Then I fill two bombers and label them as the testers to open first to check for carbonation -- they usually have some particles too. But the rest of my bombers (I usually get about 28 for a 6-gallon batch) are usually free of debris.

I tried to make a filter for the carboy spigot (on my Big Mouth Bubbler), but it clogged. I might try something else, but I also might just be OK with the first two bottles having some hop particles. The other option is to try harder to avoid getting kettle hops into the fermenter and bagging the dry hops. I am going to work on the former, but I really don't want to bag the hops.

I'd be interested in hearing how the flavor changes over time. My latest was bottled about 4 weeks ago and it keeps getting better. If it's like my others, it will peak in the next two weeks.

 

[Taket_al_Tauro]

Do you guys in the US also make use of this kind of filter bags? They seem to be very popular among homebrewers over here in Europe (or at least in Germany). Somehow I never found a mention of this kind of thing in the American forums...anyway they work great for me! I'm still doing a whirlpool, but thanks to the filter bag I can transfer most of my (clear) wort to the fermenter even for heavily hopped beers.
This bags aren't clogging , are easy to clean and sanitize/sterilize, and you can reuse them many times.

 

[Hannabrew]

Consider these that I have done - maybe one or all will help (I do all of them now). My NEIPAs stay fresh with solid aroma up to two months and I spund.

• Hop pellets have lots of crevices that hold air, try putting them in ziploc and flush with nitrogen, not co2, then seal bag and hold for a day so the niteogen can displacw rhe oxygen in crevices
  
• Use quality beverage line for transfer finished beer - not cheap vinyl or silicone. KEY: make sure worm clamps on every connection and super tight. The venturi effect is more powerful than you think and will pull in air at hose ends while transferring unless it is clamped.
  
• Dryhop once after FG and soft crash to 58. After 24hrs drop it to 32 to crash fully then transfer into keg after 24hr or less so that the bolus of dryhops green material only in contact with beer less than 48hrs. You will get 90%+ of what is acheivable in that short of time as far as the hop oils are concerned and avoid extracting the bad stuff from hops that will increase vegetal / tannic flavors
  
• For the win: Use whirlfloc and Get only clear wort into the fermentor. The fatty acids in the hot break are rhe ultimate source of oxidative material. Keep it out of the fermentor as much as possible. (I think this step made biggest difference). As an extra precaution I just started using the brewershardware wort filter when transferring.
  

I always have my DH addition vacuum sealed and usually open it seconds before I open the lid...do you see any benefit to using nitro in that scenario?

I use Bev tubing to attach to my spigot but I do suspect that not clamping that is a potential issue... especially since my NEIPA closed transfers are sloooow AF. I will give that a try...also debating adding a liquid post to the lid though I'm running out of real estate!

What exactly is your hopping strategy? No DHs until after FG and them add at soft crash temp, start full crash at 24 hours, and rack to keg ~48 hours? So 24-36 hour contact time? Any swirling? Under pressure?

I pride myself on clear wort into the fermenter so no issues there.

Lastly how are you spunding if you're not racking to the keg until well after FG? Are you just keg conditioning?

Thanks for the assist (and for the videos of your sweet DHer)

 

[SRJHops]

Do you guys in the US also make use of this kind of filter bags? They seem to be very popular among homebrewers over here in Europe (or at least in Germany). Somehow I never found a mention of this kind of thing in the American forums...anyway they work great for me! I'm still doing a whirlpool, but thanks to the filter bag I can transfer most of my (clear) wort to the fermenter even for heavily hopped beers.
This bags aren't clogging , are easy to clean and sanitize/sterilize, and you can reuse them many times.
View attachment 620490

I have used similar muslin bags for dry hopping, but that one looks better. I assume the drawstring closes the whole thing up nicely. Looks really easy to add the hops.

 

[ttuato]

I always have my DH addition vacuum sealed and usually open it seconds before I open the lid...do you see any benefit to using nitro in that scenario?

I use Bev tubing to attach to my spigot but I do suspect that not clamping that is a potential issue... especially since my NEIPA closed transfers are sloooow AF. I will give that a try...also debating adding a liquid post to the lid though I'm running out of real estate!

What exactly is your hopping strategy? No DHs until after FG and them add at soft crash temp, start full crash at 24 hours, and rack to keg ~48 hours? So 24-36 hour contact time? Any swirling? Under pressure?

I pride myself on clear wort into the fermenter so no issues there.

Lastly how are you spunding if you're not racking to the keg until well after FG? Are you just keg conditioning?

Thanks for the assist (and for the videos of your sweet DHer)

Not sure about the nitro vs vacuum seal. I only do it because all of the hop resellers (yakima, farmhouse, hop heaven, etc) purge with nitro and then vacuum

Dry hop just as you describe - under pressure. I currently use Speidel with the norcal gas/prv lid with 20lb spring shown below. Fermenter will hold about 15lbs. I spund with a few points left until FG to get natural carbonation. I release some pressure to add dryhops (that I have to supplement with force carb in keg). No swirling - usually in contact ~36 hours. I learned this process on probrewer forum, supplemented by all of the research that shows extraction of the major hop oils occur within 24hrs. --- I just ordered two Spike Flex+ but will continue the same process as it works wonderfully for me.

 

[ttuato]

I have used similar muslin bags for dry hopping, but that one looks better. I assume the drawstring closes the whole thing up nicely. Looks really easy to add the hops.

Checkout @wilserbrewer bags - he has some hop bags with drawstrings

 

[AnttiLeh]

Woo-hoo, another bottler! Did you get a lot of debris in ALL of the bottles? I fill the hydrometer first to get the FG and it does usually have a fair amount of hop/yeast particles. Then I fill two bombers and label them as the testers to open first to check for carbonation -- they usually have some particles too. But the rest of my bombers (I usually get about 28 for a 6-gallon batch) are usually free of debris.

I tried to make a filter for the carboy spigot (on my Big Mouth Bubbler), but it clogged. I might try something else, but I also might just be OK with the first two bottles having some hop particles. The other option is to try harder to avoid getting kettle hops into the fermenter and bagging the dry hops. I am going to work on the former, but I really don't want to bag the hops.

I'd be interested in hearing how the flavor changes over time. My latest was bottled about 4 weeks ago and it keeps getting better. If it's like my others, it will peak in the next two weeks.

Actually we got very clear bottles, mayby last 2-3 bottles were looking like that, 3.5 days cold crash did its job.

 

[ttuato]

I was actually thinking about trub on the way to work today, in reference to ttuato's excellent post about reducing oxidation and getting clear wort into the fermenter.

My fermenter tends to look a bit like Genuine's. I have not experienced oxidation or vegetal flavor issues from trub, so I haven't been overly worried about getting a fair amount into the fermenter.

But today I was wondering if the trub is scrubbing out some hop oil when it drops? Or somehow muting the flavor of my NEIPA? (My NEIPA actually tastes pretty good, I think, but I am still chasing the HUGE hop flavor explosion of the best of the best.)

On the one hand, I think the brulosophy trub experiments suggest that trub doesn't really affect flavor and can actually help with fermentation. On the other hand, those experiments suggest that trub can make the beer drop more clear. So, if we are making NEIPAs, perhaps the trub-dropping is also scrubbing out some hop oil? On the other hand, if we cold crash a NEIPA, aren't we scrubbing out some hop oils too?

So, I'm kinda on the fence... Do whatever I can to transfer clear wort to the fermenter, or don't worry too much about it. I'd be interested in your thoughts...

http://brulosophy.com/2015/03/22/the-impact-of-kettle-trub-part-2-exbeeriment-results/

Yes - trub has a fining effect on the beer. Positive / negative ions --- a bunch of chemistry stuff and research has shown this. I don't remember the papers/links but I think Janish has some stuff on it. Plus if you look at the pics on the brulosophy exbeeriment the trubby beer is noticeably clearer --- accordingly YES it is stripping hop oils from the solution just like yeast when it floccs

Another brulosophy exbeeriment to back this up is the one found here - BIAB vs No Sparge. The BIAB has a bunch of trub in the fermentor and noticed after FG it is significantly clearer than the No Sparge version. As it goes on you see more haze in the BIAB version - not sure what this is - but read on to see the author say this about the BIAB (trubby batch):
"I perceived it as being generally less characterful with notably less hop flavor, while it finished with a slightly sticky, almost cloying quality."

I cannot say for certain this perceived less hop was due to the initial trub or not but it makes you think given the fermentor pics.

Furthermore In the discussion they even noted this: On the second evaluation done more recently, I brought along my trusty wife whose prowess in baking and cooking is rivaled only by her strong dislike for beer. Her reaction was quite interesting. We performed 3 semi-blind triangle tests with the beers at keezer temperature and in each case, she was able to identify the odd-beer-out on smell alone, something I simply could not reproduce. In her words, the BIAB beer “did not have as much smell.” She also noted there was “another smell” present in the no sparge beer, which I presume might be a stronger hop character.

read more here about trub - links to the sciencey stuff are available here too if you wanna click around and read it for yourself (thanks @couchsending for flagging this to me):
http://www.lowoxygenbrewing.com/brewing-methods/trub-seperation-why-and-how/

 

[Taket_al_Tauro]

I have used similar muslin bags for dry hopping, but that one looks better. I assume the drawstring closes the whole thing up nicely. Looks really easy to add the hops.

No you can't use these for dry hopping. They are meant to be used at racking, especially for the wort after the boil, when transferring from kettle to fermenter. But I also use them post fermentation on dry hopped beers (I dry hop loose), for transferring from fermenter to bottling bucket .
There is a steel ring on the opening, and the string isn't a drawstring, it's used to hold or fix the bag somewhere during the transfer.
I ferment in plastic buckets so this kind of bag works nicely for my setup. Of course it's difficult to use such a thing if you are fermenting in carboys.