New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[Dgallo]

Terms getting mixed up here. VDK is the diacetyl test. Force is -im assuming here based on experience- a forced ferment test. Tells what your FG will be by yeast action.

No, vdk is what Diacetyl is. A force test is increasing temperature and forcing the off flavor of Diacetyl to be more prominent.

 

[jturman35]

I always plug the yeast manufacture dates in Beersmith which then calculates the yeast viability. This was only a 1.068 beer and yeast was from Dec 18th, not quite 2 months old. Surly the huge cell count that Imperial packages is tearing through a 1L starter in 18-24hrs on the plate?


I like the end result but may try Dry Hop on my next batch. It’s crazy because I build my beer based on a 6 gallon batch but usually only end up with around 5.5g into the conical. So even though I’m building my starter based on a larger batch and pitching on 1/2g smaller. At least I’m consistent.

Could be worse I guess. My NEIPA’s could taste like this, meh!

 

[marchuk96]

I always plug the dates in Beersmith which then calculates the yeast viability. It was only a 1.068 beer and yeast was from Dec 18th. I like the end result but may try Dry Hop on my next batch.

It’s crazy because I build my beer based on a 6 gallon batch but usually only end up with around 5.5g into the conical. So even though I’m building my starter based on a larger batch than I actually end up pitching on. At least I’m consistent.

Could be worse I guess. My NEIPA’s could taste like this, meh!

View attachment 666437

Gotcha...lol...honestly the difference between 1.020 and 1.018 is probably pretty undetectable any way...dry hop is also a great yeast...I have used it many time with great results

 

[Noob_Brewer]

Anyone else have issues with Imperial Juice attenuating down past 67%? I seem to always be stuck at 1.020. I usually do a 1-1.5L starter for 18-24hrs and pitch the whole thing.


I like the finishing gravity but would like to see how it turns out around 1.014-1.016.

I haven't used Juice before but especially at your mash temps and the expected attenuation on the package (72-76%), it would seem the juice is getting stuck as you stated. I read somewhere, can't remember where, that Juice can in fact stall sometimes and reach a false FG. Perhaps give more time? Not sure how long its been fermenting for you. FWIW, Ive been using A24 Dry Hop. Done 4 beers now with the 4th still fermenting. First three all attenuated to 80-82% after one full week with hydro samples on the 7th day: mashed at 152 for 75-90minutes, pitch rate was a larger 1.0 than the standard 0.75 ale pitch rate with 1.5L starters, and all my grain bills had about 35% adjuncts with 65% base malts. My fermentation isn't crazy into pushing the esters: 68 degrees for 4 days, 69 for a day, 70 for a day and 71 on the seventh day. Love A24, I get lots of peach esters even with a simple/non stressful fermentation schedule.

 

[SanPancho]

Yeah, the traditional vdk test. Shortcut is microndas. “Correct” is a water bath for buddy. “Force” as a descriptor makes no sense. The are being volatized, i.e. released. Release vs force. Nonsensical.

thats the consensus of the assembled cellarmen, brewers dirtbags and keg monkeys at this table. That said, the oldest and crustiest here does says his boss did actually call it a “fee-dee-kay vorse” so they deem it bad form but will allow it. He also a uptight ass german so ESL is also allowable apparently as long as immigrant not a lilacflowers country says drumpf.

id also point we’re day 6 to Beer Week and probably have all been waking up .06 to .10. Spanky literally took uber to work after last nights belgian countdown and but still fell off a stool in break room. Drop the incognito but dont tell A famous local brewer cannot handle yeast in the hefe without creating the equivalent of tear gas. Reminds me of infant diapers. Sour. Beer butt is contagious in practice if not a technical sense. Idk. Wives are calling. Techies are infiltrating. A homeless guy sleeping outside reeks of his own filth cuz its sf but its mixing with the mexi hot dog cart smells and not sure im hungry or nauseated but jd ordered one to go. i actually tried a seltzer and liked it shh dont tell. Everybody go home. Nmm,

 

[day_trippr]

"Hunter? Is that you?"

Cheers! ("Are we in Las Vegas, or what?" )

 

[beervoid]

Yeah, the traditional vdk test. Shortcut is microndas. “Correct” is a water bath for buddy. “Force” as a descriptor makes no sense. The are being volatized, i.e. released. Release vs force. Nonsensical.

thats the consensus of the assembled cellarmen, brewers dirtbags and keg monkeys at this table. That said, the oldest and crustiest here does says his boss did actually call it a “fee-dee-kay vorse” so they deem it bad form but will allow it. He also a uptight ass german so ESL is also allowable apparently as long as immigrant not a poopyhole country says drumpf.

id also point we’re day 6 to Beer Week and probably have all been waking up .06 to .10. Spanky literally took uber to work after last nights belgian countdown and but still fell off a stool in break room. Drop the incognito but dont tell A famous local brewer cannot handle yeast in the hefe without creating the equivalent of tear gas. Reminds me of infant diapers. Sour. Beer butt is contagious in practice if not a technical sense. Idk. Wives are calling. Techies are infiltrating. A homeless guy sleeping outside reeks of his own filth cuz its sf but its mixing with the mexi hot dog cart smells and not sure im hungry or nauseated but jd ordered one to go. i actually tried a seltzer and liked it shh dont tell. Everybody go home. Nmm,

Finally someone making sense in this 276 page thread.

 

[VirginiaHops1]

No, vdk is what Diacetyl is. A force test is increasing temperature and forcing the off flavor of Diacetyl to be more prominent.

Technically, VDK is 2 different compounds, one of which is diacetyl. But diacetyl has a much lower taste threshold than the other one and is produced in higher quantities by the yeast so that's what usually causes issues.

 

[505-Brewer]

Yeah, the traditional vdk test. Shortcut is microndas. “Correct” is a water bath for buddy. “Force” as a descriptor makes no sense. The are being volatized, i.e. released. Release vs force. Nonsensical.

thats the consensus of the assembled cellarmen, brewers dirtbags and keg monkeys at this table. That said, the oldest and crustiest here does says his boss did actually call it a “fee-dee-kay vorse” so they deem it bad form but will allow it. He also a uptight ass german so ESL is also allowable apparently as long as immigrant not a poopyhole country says drumpf.

id also point we’re day 6 to Beer Week and probably have all been waking up .06 to .10. Spanky literally took uber to work after last nights belgian countdown and but still fell off a stool in break room. Drop the incognito but dont tell A famous local brewer cannot handle yeast in the hefe without creating the equivalent of tear gas. Reminds me of infant diapers. Sour. Beer butt is contagious in practice if not a technical sense. Idk. Wives are calling. Techies are infiltrating. A homeless guy sleeping outside reeks of his own filth cuz its sf but its mixing with the mexi hot dog cart smells and not sure im hungry or nauseated but jd ordered one to go. i actually tried a seltzer and liked it shh dont tell. Everybody go home. Nmm,

Force is used because by heating the samples you are forcing the precursor to diacetyl to actually become diacetyl. Diacetyl has a much lower threshold to sensory than the precursor.

Enjoy beer week.

 

[isomerization]

@jturman35 @SRJHops There's an interesting presentation I've seen mentioned in some forums about hop saturation. The conclusion is that there are only very marginal returns of dry hopping above 1.1 oz/gal.

For whirlpool - I haven't found too much research but I've seen several brewers (Hop Butcher and Trillium) mention that they utilize most of their hops on the dry hop, rather than whirlpool.

That study was done with Cascade, which you might note, no one in this thread is using! Would love for an academic group to with all the NE IPA hops.

Since I’m dry hopping 6-8 oz I find that if I dump them in all at once, once they expand, a 1/3 of them are above the beer line and not in contact. By breaking it up, I feel I get more overall contact time. My first dh is usually my danker or more unique hops and the second is the cryo or fruit forward hops. This is just preference but does seem like I get a tad more pop when adding the brighter hops last

So you prefer to split up by varietal rather than blend all together and then DDH? Any reason?

Also, what’s the groups general concu

Edit: last part got cut out there, but was answered many times over (hadn’t got that far yet).

 

[Dgallo]

So you prefer to split up by varietal rather than blend all together and then DDH? Any reason?

Also, what’s the groups general concu

Edit: last part got cut out there, but was answered many times over (hadn’t got that far yet).

When I use dank hops in the dryhop I tend to put them in the first dh and save the big fruit forward hops til the second. I do this because I’ve noticed when I blended them I felt the brightness of the fruit hops didnt come through as I wanted. When I tried adding then alone in the second round of Dh, I felt they popped more. Again this is only anecdotal but I’m planning to do a side by side in this soon

 

[wepeeler]

Usually around 152 mash. Always ferment upper 60’s and my current batch I let it rip to 75 and according to my tilt and it appears going to end up around 1.020. I have been using BeerSmith for calculating starter size using a stir plate. I even oxygenated for about 60 seconds with pure oxygen on this batch right before pitching the yeast.

I usually mash at 156 for my neipas, and I always finish at either 1.020 or a touch lower with Imperial yeasts. I did 2 batches with A24 and both stopped at 1.020. Mashed both at 156. But they were 8%, well balanced and delicious. I'm currently fermenting a batch with Juice. I'm expecting it to drop below 1.020, as I think it's Imperial's version of 1318. 1318 always gets under 1.020 for me.

 

[SanPancho]

Force is used because by heating the samples you are forcing the precursor to diacetyl to actually become diacetyl. Diacetyl has a much lower threshold to sensory than the precursor.

Enjoy beer week.

I disagree with your description. If you can only FORCE the D to show up by heating it, how does it come out in a beer that doesnt get heated?
See the point? Its natural progression if the vdk is there as the beer ages/evolve/etc. Thats why we think release is more apt word. Although the term accelerate was also used, and is likely the best answer now in hindsight.

In any case, if my drunken rambling was not clear, im sure it wasn’t, my point wasn’t at all to argue the details of vdks and their biochem but to say its not what we typically refer to when we say “force” test. (I posed it as a question of “do you guys always require a force test?”) Out of like 8 or 9 at the table only one thought vdk test vs forced ferm. And even he didn’t assume it was vdk, he asked which one was being referred to. Everybody else assumed forced ferment. That was my point. “Avoid confusion in the brewhouse- call them forced ferment and vdk test.” That’s what i should have written to start with. Maybe its a regional thing, everybody knows everybody else out here. Worked together, etc. Etc. But since we have specific words for nearly everything in brewing, i was simply advising to call them different things for claritys sake. Or at least thats what i meant to do.

Somebody really oughta come up with a Bluetooth breathalyzer that can block your phone from working if you’ve had too many. Drunken posting. Mea culpa.


On an unrelated note, we’ve got initial reviews from using new hop oils if anybody is interested, but i dont wanna clog up this thread any more than i already did.

 

[Dgallo]

I disagree with your description. If you can only FORCE the D to show up by heating it, how does it come out in a beer that doesnt get heated?
See the point? Its natural progression if the vdk is there as the beer ages/evolve/etc. Thats why we think release is more apt word. Although the term accelerate was also used, and is likely the best answer now in hindsight.

In any case, if my drunken rambling was not clear, im sure it wasn’t, my point wasn’t at all to argue the details of vdks and their biochem but to say its not what we typically refer to when we say “force” test. (I posed it as a question of “do you guys always require a force test?”) Out of like 8 or 9 at the table only one thought vdk test vs forced ferm. And even he didn’t assume it was vdk, he asked which one was being referred to. Everybody else assumed forced ferment. That was my point. “Avoid confusion in the brewhouse- call them forced ferment and vdk test.” That’s what i should have written to start with. Maybe its a regional thing, everybody knows everybody else out here. Worked together, etc. Etc. But since we have specific words for nearly everything in brewing, i was simply advising to call them different things for claritys sake. Or at least thats what i meant to do.

Somebody really oughta come up with a Bluetooth breathalyzer that can block your phone from working if you’ve had too many. Drunken posting. Mea culpa.


On an unrelated note, we’ve got initial reviews from using new hop oils if anybody is interested, but i dont wanna clog up this thread any more than i already did.

I also would say force is the right term. Over time the precursor will turn into Diacetyl. So by raising the temp you are FORCING it to convert or in your terms “release” prior than it would naturally. Either way it’s spun, that’s how you can tell if you have any vdk compounds remaining in your beer

 

[SanPancho]

I also would say force is the right term. Over time the precursor will turn into Diacetyl. So by raising the temp you are FORCING it to convert or in your terms “release” prior than it would naturally. Either way it’s spun, that’s how you can tell if you have any vdk compounds remaining in your beer

Accelerate. Force implies it doesnt want to do it on its own. As if force is required. Its not. Heat accelerates. Which is waht we are doing to the naturally occuring reaction. Accelerating it.

Semantics. Didnt mean to start random debate. Growing up with different languages sometimes makes you picky about word choices.

 

[Hannabrew]

Random question for you hop heads

I viewed a batch yesterday and had issues racking clean trub to the fermenter. I only got 4.5 out of an anticipated 6.

I took the rest and poured off into a bucket to settle out.. unfortunately it got too cold and froze... So I defrosted and an letting it settle out again but wondering if it's even worth adding it to the already fermenting 4.5 G? My biggest concern is the oxidation of the 5oz of Whirlpool hops as it's been 24 hours since I racked out of the bk and I just had a plastic cap covering the jar.

Another option I thought about was fermenting it separately and taste tasting both batches toward the end to see if there's a difference.

Thoughts?

 

[SRJHops]

Random question for you hop heads

I viewed a batch yesterday and had issues racking clean trub to the fermenter. I only got 4.5 out of an anticipated 6.

I took the rest and poured off into a bucket to settle out.. unfortunately it got too cold and froze... So I defrosted and an letting it settle out again but wondering if it's even worth adding it to the already fermenting 4.5 G? My biggest concern is the oxidation of the 5oz of Whirlpool hops as it's been 24 hours since I racked out of the bk and I just had a plastic cap covering the jar.

Another option I thought about was fermenting it separately and taste tasting both batches toward the end to see if there's a difference.

Thoughts?

I'd stick with the 4.5 and call it good. Seems risky to add the rest, and I'd agree that it could have oxidized. If there's enough of that pour-off to ferment separately, it could indeed be a cool experiment.

 

[Hannabrew]

I'd stick with the 4.5 and call it good. Seems risky to add the rest, and I'd agree that it could have oxidized. If there's enough of that pour-off to ferment separately, it could indeed be a cool experiment.

Yeah that's what my gut tells me...was fishing for a reason to go ahead and try it anyway.

The thing that kills me is it will end up being 3.5 by the time I'm done dry hopping it

 

[stickyfinger]

Yeah that's what my gut tells me...was fishing for a reason to go ahead and try it anyway.

The thing that kills me is it will end up being 3.5 by the time I'm done dry hopping it

quality always trumps quantity.

 

[Dgallo]

Yeah that's what my gut tells me...was fishing for a reason to go ahead and try it anyway.

The thing that kills me is it will end up being 3.5 by the time I'm done dry hopping it

Do you have any dme lying around? If you’re ok with this recipe being off, just make a gallon an a half of wort with the same gravity as the wort you have. Easy solution if you want 5 gals in your keg

 

[Hannabrew]

Yeah I do... Not a bad idea but that much DME wort makes me cringe...though in reality I probably wouldn't notice it too much. However rest of the grain bill was too notch ingredients (w barke pils, GP, CM1) so I think I'll just ride out my small batch. Thanks for the suggestion though

 

[Dgallo]

Yeah I do... Not a bad idea but that much DME wort makes me cringe...though in reality I probably wouldn't notice it too much. However rest of the grain bill was too notch ingredients (w barke pils, GP, CM1) so I think I'll just ride out my small batch. Thanks for the suggestion though

You wouldn’t notice it at all. I literally brew no boil all DME double ipas and they come out great. Are they the same as my all grain? No but it’s really only a body thing that’s off

 

[Jay Biddle]

SPECIFICATIONS:
OG 1.055
FG 1.011
IBU's...... 30-35 from bittering, not sure of utilization from all the late addition hops. Perception is much more than 35 IBU's though.
SRM 4
ABV 5.3% - This is definitely more of a "session" IPA - but, the heavy late hops and full body really make it drink like a regular IPA without the 6-8%+ abv of a lot of the popular IPA's and DIPA's

Edit: For those looking for recent versions, updates, and my most recent/current version of how I am making this beer - you will find that information in post #1418 in this thread. The original recipe is good as is... but I have shifted some of my practices, and also simplified/clarified some things in this original post..... Please check out #1418 for updates: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost...postcount=1418

Edit #2: For those looking for recent versions, updates, and my most recent/current version of how I am making this beer - you will find that information in post #5803 in this thread. The original recipe, and the #1418 update are both good as is... but I have shifted some of my practices, and also simplified/clarified some things in this original and #1418 post..... Please check out #5803 for updates/clarifications:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/northeast-style-ipa.568046/page-146#post-8203827

**I brew 6.5 gallons of finished beer (post boil)..... this allows me to leave some hop/trub behind in boil kettle and fermenter and get 5 gallons eventually into serving keg. If you finish with 5 gallons post boil, you might want to adjust hops down a bit.
6.5 gallons post boil
5.75 gallons into fermenter
5 gallons into keg

GRAIN BILL:
% and the actual amt. I use for 6.5 gallons @ 84% mash efficiency (your efficiency may vary)
44% Rahr 2 Row ( 5 lbs)
44% Golden Promise (or similar.... Pearl, Maris Otter) (5 lbs)
4% Flaked Oats (1/2 lb)
4% Flaked Barley 1/2 lb)
2% Wheat (1/4 lb)
2% Honey Malt (1/4 lb)

60 minute mash @152-154)

HOPS:
**60 Min. = .75 oz Warrior
**Flame Out = 1oz. each of Citra/Galaxy/Mosaic
**Chill to 160 or below and add 1oz. each of Citra/Mosaic/Galaxy. Stop chiller and allow hops to sit for 30 minute or so. Stir up/whirlpool wort every 5 minutes or so.
Chill to 62 and let hops settle out as much as possible. Transfer wort to fermenter. I tend to leave behind .75 gallons of true and hops (this is why I brew 6.5 gallon batch).

**Dry Hop #1- At day 5-7 - add the following to primary fermenter:
1.5 oz. Citra
1 oz. Mosaic
.5 oz. Galaxy

**Dry Hop #2 - Around day 12, transfer to CO2 purged dry hopping keg with
1.5 oz. Citra
1 oz. Mosaic
.5 oz. Galaxy
(I use this strategy: http://www.bear-flavored.com/2014/09/how-i-dry-hop-my-ipas-with-no-oxygen.html )

Day 14-15 - Jump from Dry hop keg to serving keg. Force carbonate to moderate/moderate-low.

WATER PROFILE:
I use 80% RO water, 20% Hard (Carbon Filtered) tap water in Mash, 87% RO in sparge water:
I add per gallon of mash and sparge water -
Gypsum = .2 grams/gallon
CaCl = .6 grams/gallon
Epsom = .1 gram/gallon
Canning Salt = .2 grams/gallon
Lactic Acid = .5ml/gallon mash, .25 ml/gallon sparge ( I am using 5 gallons mash water and 6 gallons sparge water).

Using B'run Water

Ca = 96
Mg = 12
Na = 28
Sulfate = 67
Chloride = 128
Bicarbonate = 70

Mash pH = 5.37-5.42
Final runnings pH = 5.60
Pre-boil Kettle pH = 5.40-5.45
Post Boil pH = 5.3-5.35

Water Profile - the simple solution:
***Many people ask about a more general guide to water because they do not know what their own water profile is, or they have not made the jump to using a water profile software. I use B'run water, and the above profile. However, if you just want to get in the ballpark of something "similar" to start with..... The simplest solution is this:
100% RO water for both mash and sparge.
Per 5 gallons of mash water: 1 tsp of CaCl + 1/2 tsp Gypsum
Per 5 gallons of sparge water: 1 tsp of CaCl + 1/2 tsp Gypsum

This should bring you in around 140 Chloride and 80 Sulfate.

This does not take into account trying to get Na or Mg numbers. It ignores bicarbonate and as it is 100% RO, it should bring your mash pH in around 5.41 without any acid addition.

ROUGH estimate of grams to tsp of minerals:
1/4 tsp Gypsum = .9 grams
1/4 tsp CaCl = 1.1 grams
1/4 tsp Epsom Salt = 1.3 grams
1/4 tsp Canning Salt = 1.8 grams


FERMENTATION
Yeast - Conan(vermont IPA), 1318 is also a yeast many choose to use in beers like this.
I tend to start fermentation off around 62 at let it free rise to 66-68 degrees through the first 3 days or so of fermentation. At that point, I like to move it somewhere that it can finish off in the 68-70-72 range.

OTHER THOUGHTS/NOTES:

I keep almost everything the same in brewing IPA's to this style. However, I do mix up the hops. I always bitter with warrior, and always use 4 sets of 3 ounce additions at Flameout, Whirlpool, Dry Hop #1, Dry Hop #2....... but, not always the same hops. I sometimes do 100% Citra. I sometimes do equal parts of Citra/Mosaic/Galaxy for all 4 additions (Grapefruit!!!!), I some times do equal parts (1.5 ounces) citra/mosaic at all 4 additions... But always the same basic amount, in the same basic schedule.

The water is important for getting this "style" of IPA. It is important to go higher on chloride and lower on gypsum (I think). I also ...... and I don't know exactly why...... have had more success including some my high bicarbonate water and using lactic acid to shoot for pH in the 5.4 range (as opposed to a lower pH).

I have found this strategy to get very much in the ball park of these types of beers...... Hazy, full bodied, juicy/fruity hops.

This recipe is very close to what I brewed yesterday.
As suspected the recipe clogged my plate chiller.

Plan B: Move the wort to CF5 and use the Glycol Chiller

Questions:
How do you chill NEIPA style beers?

With Ales I normally shoot for 15 minute chills.
Does the goal apply to NEIPA's?

Thanks, Jay

 

[aaronm13]

Has anyone ever used dextrose to boost gravity and cut down on grain amounts? for me the sweet spot for this style is around 8% abv but it's a struggle hitting a 1.080ish OG. This is roughly equal to around 8.2kg/18lbs of grain and this is right at the top of the basket in my Grainfather. If I use around 5% of dextrose I can get the grain amount down to around 7.5kg/16.5lbs which is slightly more manageable but still a tough brew.
I was looking into this and started looking into an English brewery called Verdant. They're supposed to make some incredible hazy ipa's including Putty

https://untappd.com/b/verdant-brewing-co-putty/2038762

All their Imperial IPA's seem to use a small percentage of dextrose. I've entered around 5% into my recipe and has a FG of 1,019 which is perfect. I would have always thought dextrose would dry a beer out as it's used in a lot of west coast IPA's

I'm going to a festival in the UK next weekend and Verdant will be there so hoping they have this on tap. Other Half, Monkish and Finnback will be at the festival too. Should be fun.

 

[Hannabrew]

Dextrose does dry out a beer as the yeast will convert nearly all of the simple sugars to alcohol. The reason the FG is so high is due to the yeast used and rest of the grain bill

 

[jakturner]

For you guys who use 1318, does the krausen just hang out on top for a while? It’s been a few years since I’ve use it. I’m on day 8 and there’s still about a half inch of yeast floating on top. The ferment was cooler than usual due to temp around here about 63-64*, Im wondering if it’s done? I don’t really want to open it and take a gravity. I planned on DHing today, I guess I’ll hold off till tomorrow then DH for 3 days, surely it will be done by day 12.

 

[aaronm13]

Using London fog which is a pretty bad at attenuation. As long as it doesn't dry it out and drop a lot lower than Beersmith says it will be fine.

 

[Dgallo]

For you guys who use 1318, does the krausen just hang out on top for a while? It’s been a few years since I’ve use it. I’m on day 8 and there’s still about a half inch of yeast floating on top. The ferment was cooler than usual due to temp around here about 63-64*, Im wondering if it’s done? I don’t really want to open it and take a gravity. I planned on DHing today, I guess I’ll hold off till tomorrow then DH for 3 days, surely it will be done by day 12.

1318 always tries to crawl out of my fermenter. I run it about 10*f higher than you do though, so it’s usually finished and cleaned up in about 5-7 days with no krausen remaining

I always wait til my krausen is gone before I dry hop. Maybe raise the beer to 70-72 for a day or two and I’d figure it will be gone.

 

[tld6008]

This recipe is very close to what I brewed yesterday.
As suspected the recipe clogged my plate chiller.

Plan B: Move the wort to CF5 and use the Glycol Chiller

Questions:
How do you chill NEIPA style beers?

With Ales I normally shoot for 15 minute chills.
Does the goal apply to NEIPA's?

Thanks, Jay

I use an Immersion chiller and have a pre-chiller to chill the water going to it as the tap water here is rarely below 65 and my chiller, being home made, is a little small. It takes me about 30 min to get to 90 degrees I run the water through it slow so to use no more than 15 gal. I drain to carboy which is an a small trash can with 4" larger ID than carboy OD which I put ice in the annulus(gap). When I'm draining done its close to 70 deg I drain slow since I use a hop blocker screen that filter out all 99% of all debris.
I also have a Brinkman plate chiller but don't use in on most of my beers due to the fear of clogging it

 

[couchsending]

Has anyone ever used dextrose to boost gravity and cut down on grain amounts? for me the sweet spot for this style is around 8% abv but it's a struggle hitting a 1.080ish OG. This is roughly equal to around 8.2kg/18lbs of grain and this is right at the top of the basket in my Grainfather. If I use around 5% of dextrose I can get the grain amount down to around 7.5kg/16.5lbs which is slightly more manageable but still a tough brew.
I was looking into this and started looking into an English brewery called Verdant. They're supposed to make some incredible hazy ipa's including Putty

https://untappd.com/b/verdant-brewing-co-putty/2038762

All their Imperial IPA's seem to use a small percentage of dextrose. I've entered around 5% into my recipe and has a FG of 1,019 which is perfect. I would have always thought dextrose would dry a beer out as it's used in a lot of west coast IPA's

I'm going to a festival in the UK next weekend and Verdant will be there so hoping they have this on tap. Other Half, Monkish and Finnback will be at the festival too. Should be fun.

I use dextrose on anything over 6.5%. The yeast I use is a lowish attenuator and even mashing at 145 I need to use dextrose to get FG where I want them. I don’t like hoppy beers over 1.014 FG usually.

Trillium does for almost all of their IPAs and IIPAs or did for a while, dextrose is listed in most of their OG grain bills for anything hoppy over 6.6%. I think people might be surprised how low their beers finish. For IIPAs I prefer the beers to finish lower than IPAs. Alcohol provides so much body and sweetness on its own you don’t need the extra body from a higher FG.

I’ve degassed two IIPAs from HF and they both finished at 1.012. Edward finishes at 1.015ish for reference. Pretty much guarantee they use some sugar in those 8% beers.

 

[aaronm13]

I use dextrose on anything over 6.5%. The yeast I use is a lowish attenuator and even mashing at 145 I need to use dextrose to get FG where I want them. I don’t like hoppy beers over 1.014 FG usually.

Trillium does for almost all of their IPAs and IIPAs or did for a while, dextrose is listed in most of their OG grain bills for anything hoppy over 6.6%. I think people might be surprised how low their beers finish. For IIPAs I prefer the beers to finish lower than IPAs. Alcohol provides so much body and sweetness on its own you don’t need the extra body from a higher FG.

I’ve degassed two IIPAs from HF and they both finished at 1.012. Edward finishes at 1.015ish for reference. Pretty much guarantee they use some sugar in those 8% beers.

That's all great information to know. Was a bit worried about using dextrose as its not something you see in a lot.of NEIPA recipes.

Very surprised Trillium and Hill Farmstead finish so low. Never had any Trillium but the few HF I've had definitely didn't taste that low. Trillium are at the festival I'm going to next week so will finally get to try some and maybe even get to talk to a brewer. For whatever personal preference I've seemed to settle on 1.020 FG even in 8+% beers. Tried going a bit lower bit always find them a bit thin. Granted I still haven't dialed in my perfect water profile which would help with this.

 

[jakturner]

1318 always tries to crawl out of my fermenter. I run it about 10*f higher than you do though, so it’s usually finished and cleaned up in about 5-7 days with no krausen remaining

I always wait til my krausen is gone before I dry hop. Maybe raise the beer to 70-72 for a day or two and I’d figure it will be gone.

Yeah it definitely had some serious blow off. I guess I’m just use to imperial dry hop and Kveik. I do remember the yeast hanging around forever from when I use to use 1318. Guess I’ll strap on the brew belt for a couple of days to be sure.

 

[Braufessor]

This recipe is very close to what I brewed yesterday.
As suspected the recipe clogged my plate chiller.

Plan B: Move the wort to CF5 and use the Glycol Chiller

Questions:
How do you chill NEIPA style beers?

With Ales I normally shoot for 15 minute chills.
Does the goal apply to NEIPA's?

Thanks, Jay

I use an immersion chiller. Often I put a dose of hops in just as I start the chiller and then a second dose after a few minutes when the temperature hits 160 or lower. I use the wort chiller to stir/whirlpool the wort throughout. I have pretty cold tap water (55 or so). I would say I am getting it down into the low 100's pretty fast. After that, I am not in a big hurry as I am letting the hops sit and settle out as much as possible. I would say my actually chilling time is 20-30 minutes depending on how attentive I am to stirring. I usually just let it sit for another 15-20 after I shut the chiller off to let hop particulate settle out. I could see a plate chiller being a real disaster with these beers and ultimately more work than just using an immersion chiller.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

Brewing another NEIPA this weekend. Been using A24 which is a beast with attenuation at 80-82% each time which is higher than package indicates (74-78%). Decided to use A04 for this next brew which package indicates 73-74% attenuation at 62-70degrees temps which are both slightly lower than A24. So I am wondering what others experiences are with A04. Attenuation? I am still planning on fermenting at 68 degrees like I did with A24 and having it slowly rise to 71ish and having the beer sit at 71 degrees for cleanup after fermentation is complete before cold crash (this is what Ive been doing with A24). Any thoughts on those with experience with A04 would be appreciated. Not sure if I need to lower the fermentation/clean up temps to be within A04s stated temp range. Expect a lower attenuation with A04 compared to A24?

 

[couchsending]

Random yeast experiment tonight. Haven’t used dry yeast in a looooong time.

1.066
GW Pure Idaho Pils
10% Carafoam
2% Honey
1% Caraaroma
145/154/162/170

Touch of Brewers Crystals to up OG

kCL in kettle.

Magnum @ 60
Nugget @ 20
Nelson @ 5
Citra/Nugget WP
Idaho 7 leaf in Hopback
DH will be once at .5p from Terminal
- Nelson/Citra/Nugget
- hoping to spund as well

So4/S-33/K-97

pitch at 72, ferment at 62 for two days then let free rise.

 

[Dgallo]

Brewing another NEIPA this weekend. Been using A24 which is a beast with attenuation at 80-82% each time which is higher than package indicates (74-78%). Decided to use A04 for this next brew which package indicates 73-74% attenuation at 62-70degrees temps which are both slightly lower than A24. So I am wondering what others experiences are with A04. Attenuation? I am still planning on fermenting at 68 degrees like I did with A24 and having it slowly rise to 71ish and having the beer sit at 71 degrees for cleanup after fermentation is complete before cold crash (this is what Ive been doing with A24). Any thoughts on those with experience with A04 would be appreciated. Not sure if I need to lower the fermentation/clean up temps to be within A04s stated temp range. Expect a lower attenuation with A04 compared to A24?

a24 is 50% a04 and 50% a20. a04 is imperials version of Conan which does attenuate less and which some enjoy to ferment lower, often at 63 which is the temp John Kemmich reportedly ferments the original Conan strain at. I still run a04 at 74 which I prefer and typically get around 76-78% attenuation. It’s a great yeast. It’s the favorite yeast of many hbers and commercial brewers alike.

 

[Genuine]

Gents, I'm going to ferment a batch with A24 at room temperature (around 70F) as my fermentation chamber is tied up. I'm thinking about wrapping the fermenter in a sleeping bag and keeping an eye on the temperature to make sure it doesn't go over 75+. Has anyone done this with good results?

I just used A24 for the 2nd time at 63-65 degrees and it worked great. I did a west coast IPA with it and I had it stop at 1.023 from 1.066...however the pouch was about 7 months old so I'm sure that's a factor in it.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

a24 is 50% a04 and 50% a20. a04 is imperials version of Conan which does attenuate less and which some enjoy to ferment lower, often at 63 which is the temp John Kemmich reportedly ferments the original Conan strain at. I still run a04 at 74 which I prefer and typically get around 76-78% attenuation. It’s a great yeast. It’s the favorite yeast of many hbers and commercial brewers alike.

thanks @Dgallo this is good to hear. Very helpful. Since, A04 description shows a relatively lower temp range than A24, I just wasn't sure it wouldn't throw off some fussel alcohols going slightly above the 62-70 degree range, but Im assuming they don't if you've run A04 at 74 without issue. I will plan on running the same ferm schedule and temps for this coming batch of A04 as I have been with A24 then so that I have a better "apples-to-apples" comparison of yeasts and get an idea of what A04 brings to the table as part of the A24 blend. I knew A24 is a blend of A04 and A20 but now wanted to just use a conan strain in next upcoming brews.

FWIW, I find it interesting that while both GY054 Vermont IPA and A04 Barbarian are both conan strains by different name brands, they both report slightly different temp range and attenuation profiles:

A04: Temp range=62-70 degrees, Attenuation range=73-74%
GY054: Temp range=62-75 degrees, Attenuation range=78-82%

As a new home brewer, despite both being conan strains, this makes me wonder whats contributing to these slight differences among the different manufacturers. Confusing, but coming to the conclusion these reported ranges are simply guidelines for the "best case scenario" for a brands particular yeast strain. Nevertheless, my next two brews I'll be using A04 followed by GY054 so I can see differences myself (if I can even detect them) when they both follow the same ferm schedule.

Thanks again for your input!

 

[VirginiaHops1]

That's all great information to know. Was a bit worried about using dextrose as its not something you see in a lot.of NEIPA recipes.

Very surprised Trillium and Hill Farmstead finish so low. Never had any Trillium but the few HF I've had definitely didn't taste that low. Trillium are at the festival I'm going to next week so will finally get to try some and maybe even get to talk to a brewer. For whatever personal preference I've seemed to settle on 1.020 FG even in 8+% beers. Tried going a bit lower bit always find them a bit thin. Granted I still haven't dialed in my perfect water profile which would help with this.

You can still have great mouthfeel at lower FGs. I degassed and measured one from a really popular hazy IPA maker in my region and it was 1.012. Had very smooth, full mouthfeel.

 

[anteater8]

You can still have great mouthfeel at lower FGs. I degassed and measured one from a really popular hazy IPA maker in my region and it was 1.012. Had very smooth, full mouthfeel.

Agreed, I usually use Imperial Juice and end between 1.011 and 1.013. The body still comes across as juicy and full. But hey, my last batch ended at 1.017 (honestly not sure what was different) and that was great too.