New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[SRJHops]

All those positives are really a stretch.... and would only pertain to people who don’t use proper practices to eliminate oxygen.

Quotes are from the article, not me. He believes the active yeast plays a significant role in enhancing the flavor, in addition to scrubbing O2.

At the very least, if a homebrewer takes the other steps (like bottling from primary), it suggests that kegging does not have an advantage over bottling. It is just a choice.

 

[leesmith]

Is it really? I’ve got to say I’ve seen much more. I know it’s not necessary but it gives a little more than just the straight 2-row and wheat/oats. The dextrose/lactose were late adjustments.

I’m just a simple person.
Hard for me to tell what’s providing what flavors and textures if it’s too complicated.

 

[marchuk96]

Quotes are from the article, not me. He believes the active yeast plays a significant role in enhancing the flavor, in addition to scrubbing O2.

At the very least, if a homebrewer takes the other steps (like bottling from primary), it suggests that kegging does not have an advantage over bottling. It is just a choice.

I would have to believe that that would be in reference to the malt aspect of the beer and not the hops...not to mention that the eventual flock of the yeast in the bottle would pull down alot of your hop flavor down with it...and I'm also pretty sure no one is aging there n.e's in bottles for any extended period of time for flavors to develop

 

[VirginiaHops1]

I never cold crashed because I was worried about suck back/oxidation. I've begun fermenting in kegs my last 5 batches and now can easily cold crash, and I've noticed my flavor/aroma seems enhanced when I crash, then transfer off the yeast and dry hop. Will be my SOP going forward. I've read various articles theorizing that yeast floccing will strip out dry hop oils. YMMV

 

[ttuato]

Looks great! Could you share your water addition totals for Ca, Cl, and So? The OP has a couple different water profiles, depending on which one you look at. I think one was close to 50-50 Cl to So, while another one favored the Cl a bit.

Been thinking of trying Strata. What do you think of it?

I am just getting caught up after a week or two off so forgive me if this has been addressed. In my opinion - Strata is on par with Citra, Galaxy, Mosaic, Simcoe. It is the next "cheater" hop. (Similar to Galaxy it is best in dryhop only - whirlpool is meh)

 

[ttuato]

Agree that it has been covered... Just wondering if anyone out there hops at closer to 3 or 4 ounces per gallon. It seems that rate might be getting me closer to the flavor of Toppling Goliath beers and the best of the best...

What is ultimately tough here is that some folks swear as little as 6 or 8 ounces is plenty. Is their beer tasty? Sure. But is it as good as the best NEIPAs?

3-4oz/gal is TOTAL hops not just whirlpool or dryhop. I am at 2.5 - 3 total. Sapwood Cellars is at 1.2oz kettle & 2.1 oz dryhop / gal. These guys are the homebrew/science based NEIPA gurus.

 

[ttuato]

This beer just got 3rd out of 105 entries in the Reuben’s Hop Idol comp. haven’t received a score sheet back yet. It’s good but a few tweaks definitely would have made it better. This has been in the keg for 5 weeks with 10 of those days being at 31*. Permanent haze stability and no loss in aroma or hop impact. Below is the recipe with all processes laid out if anyone cares. Including the subtle tweaks to make it better.

6 gallons into the FV

1.062
10# Rahr 2 Row
4# Admiral Maltings Gallagher Pale
12oz Weyermann Carafoam
5oz Honey Malt
4oz Acidulated
Imperial Tartan yeast

Mash pH 5.34
Sparge pH 5.3

Water Profile:
Ca: 85
Mg: 6
Na: 30
So4: 155
Cl: 86.7

RO water. Salts added to Mash and sparge except sparge gypsum which was added to kettle.


75 min @149 (this was a mistake)
30 min @ 162

Kettle Full pH 5.4
2ml lactic @ 60
3ml lactic @ FO

90 minute Boil
4ml hop shot @ 60
1oz Calypso @ 10
2oz Southern Passion @ FO (200f)
2oz Galaxy @ FO (200f)
1oz Nugget @ 170
WP 20
PH into FV 5.06

BTB in Mash
1/2 tab whirlfloc in kettle
1 servomyces capsule

Added the hops at FO but instantly cooled to 170 with immersion chiller. Added Nugget at 170. WP for 20.

Targeted an est .75mil/ml/*plato
2 min O2 at .5ml/sec



Pitched 2/5 @ 62, fermented 66, raised to 70 on day 4 or 5.

I attach the pressure transfer fitting that’s hooked up to Co2 on a manifold for the last 1-2 Plato of fermentation. It helps to maintain positive pressure when soft cooling.

Cooled to 60 on day 6 after forced diacetyl test.

Left for 24 hours at 60.

Pulled as much yeast as possible. Tartan floccs really well so it was a ton of yeast and the beer was very clear.

Dry Hop:
5oz Southern Passion
2oz Galaxy
2oz Sabro

Just pull the pressure transfer piece and pour em in with a funnel. Attach the pressure transfer piece again and purge the head space a few times. Leave with 2.5 psi head pressure.

3 days at 60*

Cool to 45 for 36 hours.

Transfer to an O2 purged keg. Carbed at 31* for 10 days.

Issue with the beer was the mash temp. I’ve struggled to get tartan to attenuate in the past. I was targeting 1.014 and got 1.0095. The resulting beer was a little too dry and the water profiles/bitterness were out of balance. Also only half the dry hops even made it into the beer. I have the SS brewtech conicals and so often a pile of the hops get lodged into the cooling coil and never make it into the beer. Hop flavor suffered a bit. So a little more hop flavor and a little more body and this would be pretty spot on. The Southern Passion hops also aren’t that potent. I wouldn’t make it again with them but they weren’t horrible. Sabro and Galaxy are so strong they over power everything anyways.

View attachment 618680

Agree Southern Passion has not been impressive. With a blend of just SA hops it might be okay but with any standard NEIPA hop it is easily ivershadowed.

 

[ttuato]

Have you dared to use Galaxy, Vic Secret, and Sabro in one batch?

I have a galaxy, sabro, mosaic in the queue. Those are top three most potent to me. I will report back it will be a few weeks though as I just put two in the fermentors.

 

[beervoid]

View attachment 619375

I think your lack of punch can be blamed on the transfer problem on day 8.
I messed up a batch one time cause I had a tiny leak in my transfer line.

 

[ryanm8]

I think there may be some truth to yeast bringing down hop oils when dropping, based on my personal observations. But if you don't cold crash and ferment on a 10 day schedule, your beer will still have plenty of yeast in suspension.

I just use a large glass and get all the yeast on the bottom of the bottle into the glass when drinking. I find it adds more flavor to the beer. The 1318 yeast has a nice fruity flavor.

For an imperial stout, I don't want the yeast. But for NEIPA's I think it improves the flavor.

I want to try dropping the yeast before dry hopping next time to see the difference in flavor. That's what makes this fun

 

[Taket_al_Tauro]

"Oxygen is a real enemy of beer, accelerating staling and adding off-flavors, and bottle conditioned beers have a living advantage in the bottle that will take up small amounts of residual oxygen that may have been picked up in the packaging process (from the air in the tubing used to transfer into the bottle or oxygen in the head space air within the bottle itself)."

I read somewhere in another forum a citation by Garret Oliver on this topic. Basically he was saying that active yeast will indeed consume O2 introduced during the packaging process. If not all at least a portion of it, depending on how careful the brewer was at packaging. But it will pick up very little from the headspace air.

This also reflects my own experience. The headspace air may not be a problem for non-hoppy styles, but it definitely causes some oxidation to dry hopped beers. Also when bottle conditioning. It mainly resulted in a darkening of colour, coupled with some loss of hop flavour/aroma (although that was way more subtle), and a somewhat increased sweetness/maltiness perception.
I noticed that quite clearly on a west coastish type IPA and a hoppy pilsner (trough side by side comparisons between headspace-O2-purged and non purged bottle variants). Didn't brew a neipa yet, but I guess this effect would be even more severe on this style.

 

[beervoid]

I think there may be some truth to yeast bringing down hop oils when dropping, based on my personal observations. But if you don't cold crash and ferment on a 10 day schedule, your beer will still have plenty of yeast in suspension.

I just use a large glass and get all the yeast on the bottom of the bottle into the glass when drinking. I find it adds more flavor to the beer. The 1318 yeast has a nice fruity flavor.

For an imperial stout, I don't want the yeast. But for NEIPA's I think it improves the flavor.

I want to try dropping the yeast before dry hopping next time to see the difference in flavor. That's what makes this fun

Its not good for stability to have yeast in the beer, the pro's do everything they can to get as much out as possible. It muddles the flavor and perhaps fresh its not as bad as when the beer gets older.
If you dry hop enough sure you can dry hop during fermentation and still have enough flavor but its not economic.

I think there is an exception to be made for certain beer styles like Belgium beers... But def no yeast in a NEIPA for me.

 

[MaCheFai]

3-4oz/gal is TOTAL hops not just whirlpool or dryhop. I am at 2.5 - 3 total. Sapwood Cellars is at 1.2oz kettle & 2.1 oz dryhop / gal. These guys are the homebrew/science based NEIPA gurus.

Michael may be a well rounded and experienced brewer that has sours down. And Scott can clearly brew too and really dig into some numbers like nobody's business to document and analyze his findings, but I wouldn't go so far as to call them, "NEIPA gurus". No shade, they both seem very bright and passionate when it comes to brewing. But they're doing the same **** we are! They try a little this, they try a little that, taste, tweak, repeat. And I am super grateful for them to share their learnings and experiences. A perfect example is their video of the NEIPA that turned out a pretty dark color with very little hop aroma, but it's great. They take you through their process, their surprises and are honest about everything. It's great they share and give back their learnings to the brewing community. I recommend you check them out. I found the yeast discussion particularly interesting. And for that, I tip my hat. But until they have a beer up on the board with the likes of Treehouse, Hillfarmstead, Trillium, etc, I just wouldn't go that far. I think they're learning and experimenting just like the rest of us, and I'm grateful to learn alongside them.

 

[WBCo]

I never cold crashed because I was worried about suck back/oxidation. I've begun fermenting in kegs my last 5 batches and now can easily cold crash, and I've noticed my flavor/aroma seems enhanced when I crash, then transfer off the yeast and dry hop. Will be my SOP going forward. I've read various articles theorizing that yeast floccing will strip out dry hop oils. YMMV

And that is why it is so important to dryhop after you've dropped the yeast out and removed the bulk of it from the fermentor. My beers improved immensely when I was able to mimic professional processes with a conical, temp control, and the ability to transfer with completely purged lines.

Michael may be a well rounded and experienced brewer that has sours down. And Scott can clearly brew too and really dig into some numbers like nobody's business to document and analyze his findings, but I wouldn't go so far as to call them, "NEIPA gurus". No shade, they both seem very bright and passionate when it comes to brewing. But they're doing the same poopy we are! They try a little this, they try a little that, taste, tweak, repeat. And I am super grateful for them to share their learnings and experiences. A perfect example is their video of the NEIPA that turned out a pretty dark color with very little hop aroma, but it's great. They take you through their process, their surprises and are honest about everything. It's great they share and give back their learnings to the brewing community. I recommend you check them out. I found the yeast discussion particularly interesting. And for that, I tip my hat. But until they have a beer up on the board with the likes of Treehouse, Hillfarmstead, Trillium, etc, I just wouldn't go that far. I think they're learning and experimenting just like the rest of us, and I'm grateful to learn alongside them.

I have been to Trillium, Treehouse, Hill Farmstead, Alchemist, Sapwood Cellars, and many others. I can tell you that Michael and Scott's beers are very good and on par with the other heavy hitters. They have their own house flavor, as all of them do, and as a young brewery they are still experimenting, but I don't think that is a fault in any way. If any brewer is done experimenting that means they don't think their beer can improve above where it is currently and stagnation is not a redeemable quality, in my opinion anyway.

 

[stickyfinger]

• And that is why it is so important to dryhop after you've dropped the yeast out and removed the bulk of it from the fermentor.

For those of you dropping yeast before dry hopping, I have a few questions:

-drop temp to 50s-60, wait a few days and then dry hop?
-drop temp to freezing, wait a few days, warm up and then dry hop?
-after dry hop, transfer to keg, prime and spund?
-after dry hop, transfer to keg and force carb?

Anyone have any comparisons on these methods, or what seems to work for you. I wasn't able to do my test of dropping the yeast vs not this week, but I want to do it as soon as I get things under control.

 

[couchsending]

It all depends on your yeast.

Kimmich recommends 45 for Conan
Lawson does 55/58 for 1056/001
Chad Yak from CS does only 2-3c for his yeast
LAIII I do 55ish
1098 60 works
Melvin goes from 70 -> 60 for 001
Aslin I think said 55 for what they’re using.

Give it 24 hours at that temp, harvest as much yeast as possible. I usually Let it warm back up to 60-63 during fist day of DH. I know quite a few brewers who will split the dry hop into two additions even after fermentation. Theory there is that the first dose of hops will create additional flocculation and so by splitting you get more potency out of the second dose as there’s even less yeast in suspension.

 

[SRJHops]

I would have to believe that that would be in reference to the malt aspect of the beer and not the hops...not to mention that the eventual flock of the yeast in the bottle would pull down alot of your hop flavor down with it...and I'm also pretty sure no one is aging there n.e's in bottles for any extended period of time for flavors to develop

Interesting point about pulling down the hop oils. Of course, if true, a good swirl would fix that, right?

As for aging, you are correct, not for NEIPA's. But I have noticed that my bottle conditioned NEIPA's taste best after at least 5 weeks in the bottle. Not seeing much evidence of oxidation until about 10 weeks. I am curious if people who are kegging find their NEIPA's taste great right away, or need some time in the keg for the flavors to develop?

 

[Dgallo]

For those of you dropping yeast before dry hopping, I have a few questions:

-drop temp to 50s-60, wait a few days and then dry hop?
-drop temp to freezing, wait a few days, warm up and then dry hop?
-after dry hop, transfer to keg, prime and spund?
-after dry hop, transfer to keg and force carb?

Anyone have any comparisons on these methods, or what seems to work for you. I wasn't able to do my test of dropping the yeast vs not this week, but I want to do it as soon as I get things under control.

My last beer I dropped to 40 and held for 24hrs. Warmed back up to room temp which was 66. Dry hoped 3 days under pressure. Then cold crashed again and tranferred to keg to force carb. Elevated the hop character. But that’s the only process Ive tried

 

[VirginiaHops1]

For those of you dropping yeast before dry hopping, I have a few questions:

-drop temp to 50s-60, wait a few days and then dry hop?
-drop temp to freezing, wait a few days, warm up and then dry hop?
-after dry hop, transfer to keg, prime and spund?
-after dry hop, transfer to keg and force carb?

Anyone have any comparisons on these methods, or what seems to work for you. I wasn't able to do my test of dropping the yeast vs not this week, but I want to do it as soon as I get things under control.

I lowered temp to 55-60 to drop the yeast and dry hopped in the 60s, and then force carbed in the serving keg. That worked well for me. I actually built a spunding valve and wanted to try using that but haven't gotten around to it.

 

[SRJHops]

3-4oz/gal is TOTAL hops not just whirlpool or dryhop. I am at 2.5 - 3 total. Sapwood Cellars is at 1.2oz kettle & 2.1 oz dryhop / gal. These guys are the homebrew/science based NEIPA gurus.

Whoa, they must be wizards at Sapwood! If I used 3 ounces of hops in a beer it would barely even be a pale ale, much less an IPA.

It does appear they like Cryo hops at Sapwood: Cryovolcano – 7.9% ABV: Citra and Mosaic are two of our favorite hops. Together they provide an intense aroma of green pineapple, melon, and grapefruit. 25% of our 4.4 lbs per barrel triple-dry-hopping was with Citra and Mosaic Cryo.

 

[VirginiaHops1]

I am curious if people who are kegging find their NEIPA's taste great right away, or need some time in the keg for the flavors to develop?

Mine taste good right away. I give them about a week to carb up. I don't really notice much change in flavor in the keg but we've been finishing them within a few weeks since they're small batches and my wife loves the NEIPAs. Last batch was gone in about 1.5 weeks(2.5 counting carb/condition period). I may need bigger batches

 

[WBCo]

For those of you dropping yeast before dry hopping, I have a few questions:

-drop temp to 50s-60, wait a few days and then dry hop?
-drop temp to freezing, wait a few days, warm up and then dry hop?
-after dry hop, transfer to keg, prime and spund?
-after dry hop, transfer to keg and force carb?

Anyone have any comparisons on these methods, or what seems to work for you. I wasn't able to do my test of dropping the yeast vs not this week, but I want to do it as soon as I get things under control.

I drop temp to mid to low 50's for 48 hrs, harvest yeast, warm back up to mid 60's and dryhop for 48-72 hrs.

After dryhop, I transfer to keg(s) and force carb with the 'low and slow' method. I hook the keg up to about 10 psi and don't touch it for a week. By about day 10 it's carbed nicely and ready to enjoy.

Mine taste good right away. I give them about a week to carb up. I don't really notice much change in flavor in the keg but we've been finishing them within a few weeks since they're small batches and my wife loves the NEIPAs. Last batch was gone in about 1.5 weeks(2.5 counting carb/condition period). I may need bigger batches

I do 5 or 10 gallon batches, so mine last a LITTLE longer than yours, but not by much! I'm also a fan of letting them carb up over a week or so.

 

[couchsending]

If you’re keeping oxygen at bay any hoppy beer shouldn’t degrade in a cold keg for months at a time. If it is you need to look at your process and adjust.

 

[MaCheFai]

It all depends on your yeast.

Kimmich recommends 45 for Conan
Lawson does 55/58 for 1056/001
Chad Yak from CS does only 2-3c for his yeast
LAIII I do 55ish
1098 60 works
Melvin goes from 70 -> 60 for 001
Aslin I think said 55 for what they’re using.

Give it 24 hours at that temp, harvest as much yeast as possible. I usually Let it warm back up to 60-63 during fist day of DH. I know quite a few brewers who will split the dry hop into two additions even after fermentation. Theory there is that the first dose of hops will create additional flocculation and so by splitting you get more potency out of the second dose as there’s even less yeast in suspension.

Wow, this is great info, thanks for sharing! As for the second dry hop post drop, is there any benefit to this method over keg hopping?

 

[couchsending]

I don’t see any reason to keg hop. If you’re good at keep o2 pickup to a minimum you don’t need it. Personally I really don’t enjoy the flavor/aspect that it contributes to the final beer.

 

[doogie]

Some have reported grassy flavors when having hops in the beer for extended periods. I personally believe it depends on the hop variety and the amount of hops used as I have not experienced it with a 2 ounce keg hop.

 

[marchuk96]

Interesting point about pulling down the hop oils. Of course, if true, a good swirl would fix that, right?

As for aging, you are correct, not for NEIPA's. But I have noticed that my bottle conditioned NEIPA's taste best after at least 5 weeks in the bottle. Not seeing much evidence of oxidation until about 10 weeks. I am curious if people who are kegging find their NEIPA's taste great right away, or need some time in the keg for the flavors to develop?

Interesting point about pulling down the hop oils. Of course, if true, a good swirl would fix that, right?

As for aging, you are correct, not for NEIPA's. But I have noticed that my bottle conditioned NEIPA's taste best after at least 5 weeks in the bottle. Not seeing much evidence of oxidation until about 10 weeks. I am curious if people who are kegging find their NEIPA's taste great right away, or need some time in the keg for the flavors to develop?

A good swirl would just resuspend shotty spent yeast into ur beer...would there be hope oils in with it...most likely but u would also be getting those oils mixed with the spent yeast flavor...If that's ur thing by all means go for it...I keg and my beer usually tastes great from the day I keg it to the last drop...the first few days might be a little hot with hops and then it settles in and for me I find it to get cleaner as time goes on...by that I mean hop flavor is more crisp and isn't muddled with any yeasty flavors...did some of that oil potentially flock with the yeast after all that time...probably but to no loss to flavor and aroma...and remeber kegged beer is kept cold and oxygen free the entire time...are you chilling all your bottles once carbed?..or are you just leaving them at room temp until ur ready to drink some and then put those 1 or 2 or however many into ur fridge to chill and then drink?...guaranteed there is also no one shaking there kegs to resuspend the yeast and hop oils from the bottom back into the beer...for this style the same would apply for bottled versions

 

[marchuk96]

Whoa, they must be wizards at Sapwood! If I used 3 ounces of hops in a beer it would barely even be a pale ale, much less an IPA.

It does appear they like Cryo hops at Sapwood: Cryovolcano – 7.9% ABV: Citra and Mosaic are two of our favorite hops. Together they provide an intense aroma of green pineapple, melon, and grapefruit. 25% of our 4.4 lbs per barrel triple-dry-hopping was with Citra and Mosaic Cryo.

He is talking about oz per gal with those numbers ...not total oz of hops used in beer

 

[Jayjay1976]

I've been wanting to brew a NEIPA for a while; unfortunately I'm not set up for kegging yet and fears of oxidation are enough to avoid IPAs altogether until I build a keezer. How to commercial breweries manage to successfully package hoppy styles without oxidation?

 

[stickyfinger]

It all depends on your yeast.

Kimmich recommends 45 for Conan
Lawson does 55/58 for 1056/001
Chad Yak from CS does only 2-3c for his yeast
LAIII I do 55ish
1098 60 works
Melvin goes from 70 -> 60 for 001
Aslin I think said 55 for what they’re using.

Give it 24 hours at that temp, harvest as much yeast as possible. I usually Let it warm back up to 60-63 during fist day of DH. I know quite a few brewers who will split the dry hop into two additions even after fermentation. Theory there is that the first dose of hops will create additional flocculation and so by splitting you get more potency out of the second dose as there’s even less yeast in suspension.

very interesting. cant wait to do a comparison. have you tried fining and then dry hopping?