New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[tld6008]

In an effort to cut down on the hop burn, I'm thinking about utilizing gelatin in the fermenter (after it's done fermenting).

Thoughts?

I have not had any last over a week in the keg.

 

[JohnConnor]

Let's be clear - that mix is nothing to do with Trinity Brewers, they took it from that HBT thread, although it looks a bit light on T-58 compared to more recent iterations which are more 8-10%. All the credit should go to @isomerization for the initial DNA analysis, and various HBTers on that thread for experimental brewing to nail the proportions.

There are certainly some on that thread who do prefer the dry blend to 1318 - there's no "right" answer here.



Well 1318 seems to have become the new favourite - Imperial A38 Juice brews very similarly and supposedly has the same origins (although I don't really buy the Boddington thing); I've also seen it suggested that WLP775 English Cider has the same origin if you only have easy access to White Labs. See this thread for a discussion of optimising fermentation with 1318.

Conan still seems popular but commercial examples seem quite variable - WLP4000 has more character than WLP095 for instance. It's a bit notorious for needing to go through one generation before it really gets going on the peach thing, and definitely changes with different generations. Lallemand have introduced a dry version as their New England yeast for commercial brewers but seem to be struggling with viability in dry form and have yet to release it in retail packs, although some stores are unofficially breaking up commercial packs.

Saccharomyces "bruxellensis" Trois used to be classified as a Brettanomyces but is now regarded as a slightly weird Saccharomyces. It pumps out a lot of pineapple flavour - free fruit, what's not to like? Well it's a diastaticus strain so is very high attenuation which is not ideal. Although people do use it on its own, most commonly as WLP644, there seems to be a trend to sell it as three-way blends along with a Conan and something else like 1318 or WLP066. If you see a NEIPA blend advertised as imparting pineapple, then it probably contains Sacc Trois.

WLP066 London Fog seems to be a bit of a Marmite strain - some hate it, some love it. See the thread.

Beyond that - any yeast which pumps out some esters, so pretty much anything British, fermented in a way that promotes esters without too much other junk. Brewlab has a far better selection than any of the US commercial sources. We'll never quite understand the US fascination with Ringwood though! But there's no reason why clean wine yeasts or distilling yeasts might not work - the Vault strain WLP050 Tennessee Whiskey is POF- and pumps out phenyl esters for a lovely floral nose which might not be quite right in a NEIPA but definitely has potential for other styles.

I've not tried them but the closely related S-33, Windsor and Danstar ESB seem obvious candidates for a NEIPA, not least because 1318 seems to fall in the same Mixed group as them. Also S-33/Windsor seem to be effectively a POF- version of T-58, which in my hands has shown dramatic biotransformation of hop flavours - Chinook went from grapefruit to lime and other flavours for more complexity. The only trouble with biotransformation is that you lose some hop intensity, so you need more hops for a given level of flavour. I've not tested S-33 or Windsor yet to see if they show the same effect, but it's definitely on the list of things to try.

The Treehouse blend suggests that a subtle bit of Belgian character is a good thing in NEIPAs, as long as it doesn't dominate. That points to the Yorkshire Square yeasts which are almost all POF+ members of the saison family. Again Brewlab is your best source - I've always liked the sound of F40 (allegedly from Scottish & Newcastle) which is notorious for its fruitiness and which I suspect may be a saison, but the likes of Sussex 1 ("Harvey's") and HH (Hardy & Hanson, which begat Black Sheep and Elgood's) would be worth trying. WLP037 Yorkshire Square and WLP038 Manchester have been sequenced and are known to be POF+ saisons, but are Vault strains - 037 isn't that far off enough pre-purchases but we'll be waiting a while for 038. 1469 is about the only one that's regularly available. My reading leads me to suspect that Mangrove Jack M15 Empire may be related to some of these but I've not brewed with it yet.

It may also be worth playing around with blends that incorporate a bit of POF+ yeast, whether a pinch of T-58, or wine yeast or whatever.

It's still very early days at the moment, and it's a bit of a shame that people tend to herd round certain yeasts. I think it is certain that there are better yeasts for NEIPAs than 1318 and Conan - people just haven't tried them yet.

This blew up my mind. Great post. I've always been interested in testing out Windsor yeast in an IPA but have been turned off with low flocc properties. Now that you've mentioned a POF- version of T-58, I'm very interested and might just take the plunge. I'm wondering if a packet of Windsor on day one, and then something that will grab it hard like S-04 on day 2. Could have a pretty bright beer afterwords? Hmm...

 

[Whalewang]

I have not had any last over a week in the keg.

My hop burn slightly improves over time but still persists after a month.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

What kind of fermentation schedule are they using with safale yeast mixure?

It's one of those things, it depends on your personal taste, your equipment and so on. Some people have been fermenting significantly warmer than others, but as a starting point - pitch at 75F, start fermentation at say 65F. Some people let it free-rise into the 70'sF, others keep it locked in the mid-60s. Some people let it rise to 70F, others take it down to 60F.

 

[mcfire12]

Is there any way other then a closed transfer that anyone has been successful with doing to keep this from turning **** brown? We're all set to brew this but the color has me spooked.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I have read that entire thread, the Trinity brewer was an early contributor there but I can't recall ever seeing the 92,5,and 3 percentage combination discussed there. I could be wrong also.

It's just a question of credit - the major insight was isomerization identifying the strains. People's first guess was 50:25:25 and pretty a group of 3-4 people narrowed it down by brewing to "S-04 with a big pinch of T-58 and a small pinch of WB-06". That's an insight too, but less than the original insight. But then it's not terribly material if you interpret it as 93/5/2 (which was certainly one of the early blends) or 92/5/3 whatever, it's just quibbling within the natural variation of eg viability between different packs of yeast. So that's what I mean in terms of giving credit to the idea of the blend - it was a group effort, but if you're going to credit one single person, it should be isomerization.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

This blew up my mind. Great post. I've always been interested in testing out Windsor yeast in an IPA but have been turned off with low flocc properties. Now that you've mentioned a POF- version of T-58, I'm very interested and might just take the plunge. I'm wondering if a packet of Windsor on day one, and then something that will grab it hard like S-04 on day 2. Could have a pretty bright beer afterwords? Hmm...

Most traditional British breweries use or used to use a multistrain, which was typically a high attenuator and a good floccer that were effectively pitched together. So I wouldn't try to complicate things too much in terms of timing. But I'd suggest it would be desirable to have a pinch of something POF+ in the mix somewhere.

 

[ca_baracus]

Is there any way other then a closed transfer that anyone has been successful with doing to keep this from turning poopy brown? We're all set to brew this but the color has me spooked.

I did not do a closed transfer when I brewed my NEIPA, and the color never turned brown (my profile pic is my NEIPA). I had to take posts, poppets, and dip tubes apart several times due to clogging (terrible transfer from fermenter to keg on my part), too. My process was: filling up keg all the way up with Star San solution, hooking it up to the gas, and pushing it through the tap. I then released the pressure, opened the keg lid, and racked from fermenter. Purged with gas once I was done.

 

[JohnConnor]

Most traditional British breweries use or used to use a multistrain, which was typically a high attenuator and a good floccer that were effectively pitched together. So I wouldn't try to complicate things too much in terms of timing. But I'd suggest it would be desirable to have a pinch of something POF+ in the mix somewhere.

I was reading a post about Green Flash Le Freak. The brewer said they pitch their Belgian yeast first to allow esters/phenols to form, then pitch their house yeast a day later. I was thinking something along those lines.

 

[1bottlerocket]

Hi All,
I am sorry if this is not the correct thread or forum for this post. please move as needed. I have two posts in the Extract Brewing forum but have not received any replies in about a week.

I am planning on trying to brew an extract version of an NEIPA as posted by another member.

Here is the recipe and procedure. I would appreciate some feedback or corrections to the ingredients, procedure or schedule

Here are my mash and grains:
4lbs DME Pilsen (Brewferm extralight)
3lbs DME Weizen (Brewferm Wheat)
0.5 glucose (late addition)

Steeping grains:
1lb Marris Otter
0.5 lb melanoiden
1lb Flaked Wheat
0.5lb Flaked oats (Precook oats using extra water)
Add all to steeping bag

(I am following a somewhat modified procedure outlined by Yooper
Steep the grains in 1.75 gallons of water and hold at 45 minutes to 60 minutes at 150-154.

Lift up the bag of grains, pour about 2 gallons of water over the grain bag, to get to boil volume. (I was thinking of heating the water to 150-160)

Add your FWH (Not sure of FWH?)
Add the three pound of Weizen DME
Bring to a boil, (60 min boil)
0.5 oz warrior hops for bittering

Add the 4lb Pilsen DME (Extra light DME) and 0.5 lb Gluscose at flame out and stir well.
That should get you near whirlpool temperature, (150-160°F)
proceed with the whirlpool hops
2 oz Citra
2 oz Mosaic
2 oz Galaxy
Whirlpool for 20 minutes stirring every 5 minutes to keep the hops in suspension

Then top off to the 5 gallons at that point.
Chill to 70°F
Oxygenate wort
Pitch Vermont Pale ale yeast

Day 3 Dry hop
2 oz Citra
2 oz Mosaic
2 oz Galaxy

Day 7 Dry Hop
2 oz Citra
2 oz Mosaic
2 oz Galaxy

Target OG: 1.069
Target FG 1.017

 

[McTwidget]

Hi All,

Steeping grains:
1lb Marris Otter
0.5 lb melanoiden
1lb Flaked Wheat
0.5lb Flaked oats (Precook oats using extra water)
Add all to steeping bag

(I am following a somewhat modified procedure outlined by Yooper
Steep the grains in 1.75 gallons of water and hold at 45 minutes to 60 minutes at 150-154.

With your steeping grain bill you have to watch the diastatic power (DP) to get conversion of the flaked grains and melanoiden, otherwise you'll end up with a low efficiency for that portion. By my math you have about 18, when you need a minimum of 30, and are better off even higher. Solutions would bet switching out the Maris Otter for American Two-Row, or switching a portion of your DME to grain (a pound would get you closer). Or of course you could just add more DME to get your target OG, but I'm not sure how the low DP might affect the proteins and goodies from the flaked portions which give a NEIPA its body.

I was getting low efficiencies on some of my beers lately (all grain) and when looking closer at the trend it was when the DP was down between 30 and 50 for the mash.

 

[1bottlerocket]

With your steeping grain bill you have to watch the diastatic power (DP) to get conversion of the flaked grains and melanoiden, otherwise you'll end up with a low efficiency for that portion. By my math you have about 18, when you need a minimum of 30, and are better off even higher. Solutions would bet switching out the Maris Otter for American Two-Row, or switching a portion of your DME to grain (a pound would get you closer). Or of course you could just add more DME to get your target OG, but I'm not sure how the low DP might affect the proteins and goodies from the flaked portions which give a NEIPA its body.

I was getting low efficiencies on some of my beers lately (all grain) and when looking closer at the trend it was when the DP was down between 30 and 50 for the mash.

Thanks for the information.

I noticed on the math that I was low too. I went ahead and doubled the Marris Otter in my steep. I am going to take a gravity reading before topping it off and adding it to the fermentation bucket to see where it is. I am on a tight schedule today and went ahead and made it today before waiting for a reply. After doing more reading in this thread, Braufessor indicated that closer to 1.060 might be a better starting point.

My children are on holiday next week so I wanted to get it going today, as I will probably not have another chance to do this for a few weeks.

I'll keep you posted on how it turns out.

 

[tld6008]

Thanks for the information.

I noticed on the math that I was low too. I went ahead and doubled the Marris Otter in my steep. I am going to take a gravity reading before topping it off and adding it to the fermentation bucket to see where it is. I am on a tight schedule today and went ahead and made it today before waiting for a reply. After doing more reading in this thread, Braufessor indicated that closer to 1.060 might be a better starting point.

My children are on holiday next week so I wanted to get it going today, as I will probably not have another chance to do this for a few weeks.

I'll keep you posted on how it turns out.

FWH= first wort hops, they go in as water is heating up to boil
Many us only make one dry hop addition, added during reduced but active fermentation. Not an extract brewer so I can't comment on that process. I do know that kegging these beers is the way to go, bottling will more than likely oxidize rapidly.

 

[1bottlerocket]

Thanks for the reply. I had no idea, as I am so new to brewing.

I was reading about the kegging vs. Bottling. I don't have that sort of set up yet so bottles it is for me. I am splitting the batch three ways so hopefully it will drink fresh.

It has been a real learning curve and I feel like I am still driving with limited vision. The Palmer book and this forum have been a big help.

It will be interesting to see how it turns out. The hop aroma in my kitchen was incredible!

 

[ThirstyPawsHB]

Thanks for the reply. I had no idea, as I am so new to brewing.

I was reading about the kegging vs. Bottling. I don't have that sort of set up yet so bottles it is for me. I am splitting the batch three ways so hopefully it will drink fresh.

It has been a real learning curve and I feel like I am still driving with limited vision. The Palmer book and this forum have been a big help.

It will be interesting to see how it turns out. The hop aroma in my kitchen was incredible!

I can chime in about bottling. Pre-NEIPA days, I'd brew IPAs as "normal" in buckets, dry hop in buckets. Have them open to air during transfers. Some of the best beers I've made. I'd use Safale-05 for 2 weeks, cold crash, transfer and dry hop for another 10days, transfer to a bottling bucket and bottle.

But all that went to **** trying the same technique with NEIPAs which requires limited air exposure. Ergo dry hopping during fermentation and closed loop transfers.

In a nutshell, if you end up with diacetyl/butter flavors don't be surprised nor discouraged. We've all gone through it and just have to work through it. I've only done 1 successful NEIPA myself, sent it out and was enjoyed by other members. Some even said one of the best HB NEIPAs they've ever had. So it can be done.

Best wishes and happy brewing.

 

[1bottlerocket]

Hi All,

I brewed on Friday (above recipe) and pitched one tube of Liquid Vermont ale yeast at 72°F. As of Sunday there are no visible signs of fermentation. I was wondering if I should pitch another tube of the same yeast or if I could use some S-04 dry I have right now.

The OG was 1.070 when I pitched. Can I get a recommendation?
Thanks!

 

[milldoggy]

Also worth keeping an eye out for any seasonal releases that might be worth a go - for instance Wyeast's Q3 releases include 3864 Belgian/Canadian, supposedly from Unibroue of Quebec and which is a "mildly" Belgian yeast with plenty of esters that sounds well worth a try.

WLP033 was released in May, WLP006 was due in November (although White Labs seem to be having second thoughts on their release schedule) - both would be worth a go.

Completely OT, but Wyeast also have 3789 Trappist Blend ("Orval") and 3463 Forbidden Fruit in their Q3 seasonals if anyone's interested.

3864 was my favorite yeast 7 years ago when it was out. Need to go get some again!

 

[divrack]

Let's be clear - that mix is nothing to do with Trinity Brewers, they took it from that HBT thread, although it looks a bit light on T-58 compared to more recent iterations which are more 8-10%. All the credit should go to @isomerization for the initial DNA analysis, and various HBTers on that thread for experimental brewing to nail the proportions.

There are certainly some on that thread who do prefer the dry blend to 1318 - there's no "right" answer here.



Well 1318 seems to have become the new favourite - Imperial A38 Juice brews very similarly and supposedly has the same origins (although I don't really buy the Boddington thing); I've also seen it suggested that WLP775 English Cider has the same origin if you only have easy access to White Labs. See this thread for a discussion of optimising fermentation with 1318.

Conan still seems popular but commercial examples seem quite variable - WLP4000 has more character than WLP095 for instance. It's a bit notorious for needing to go through one generation before it really gets going on the peach thing, and definitely changes with different generations. Lallemand have introduced a dry version as their New England yeast for commercial brewers but seem to be struggling with viability in dry form and have yet to release it in retail packs, although some stores are unofficially breaking up commercial packs.

Saccharomyces "bruxellensis" Trois used to be classified as a Brettanomyces but is now regarded as a slightly weird Saccharomyces. It pumps out a lot of pineapple flavour - free fruit, what's not to like? Well it's a diastaticus strain so is very high attenuation which is not ideal. Although people do use it on its own, most commonly as WLP644, there seems to be a trend to sell it as three-way blends along with a Conan and something else like 1318 or WLP066. If you see a NEIPA blend advertised as imparting pineapple, then it probably contains Sacc Trois.

WLP066 London Fog seems to be a bit of a Marmite strain - some hate it, some love it. See the thread.

The more characterful kveiks like Hornindal seem an obvious choice if you want a yeast that isn't subtle in its contribution in a Sacc Trois kind of way, orange seems to be the usual flavour mentioned. But getting hold of them may not be easy - we only have one importer in the UK of the Omega range, and the kveiks sell out within about 24h of hitting the website.

Beyond that - any yeast which pumps out some esters, so pretty much anything British, fermented in a way that promotes esters without too much other junk. Brewlab has a far better selection than any of the US commercial sources. We'll never quite understand the US fascination with Ringwood though! But there's no reason why clean wine yeasts or distilling yeasts might not work - the Vault strain WLP050 Tennessee Whiskey is POF- and pumps out phenyl esters for a lovely floral nose which might not be quite right in a NEIPA but definitely has potential for other styles.

I've not tried them but the closely related S-33, Windsor and Danstar ESB seem obvious candidates for a NEIPA, not least because 1318 seems to fall in the same Mixed group as them. Also S-33/Windsor seem to be effectively a POF- version of T-58, which in my hands has shown dramatic biotransformation of hop flavours - Chinook went from grapefruit to lime and other flavours for more complexity. The only trouble with biotransformation is that you lose some hop intensity, so you need more hops for a given level of flavour. I've not tested S-33 or Windsor yet to see if they show the same effect, but it's definitely on the list of things to try.

The Treehouse blend suggests that a subtle bit of Belgian character is a good thing in NEIPAs, as long as it doesn't dominate. That points to the Yorkshire Square yeasts which are almost all POF+ members of the saison family. Again Brewlab is your best source - I've always liked the sound of F40 (allegedly from Scottish & Newcastle) which is notorious for its fruitiness and which I suspect may be a saison, but the likes of Sussex 1 ("Harvey's") and HH (Hardy & Hanson, which begat Black Sheep and Elgood's) would be worth trying. WLP037 Yorkshire Square and WLP038 Manchester have been sequenced and are known to be POF+ saisons, but are Vault strains - 037 isn't that far off enough pre-purchases but we'll be waiting a while for 038. 1469 is about the only one that's regularly available. My reading leads me to suspect that Mangrove Jack M15 Empire may be related to some of these but I've not brewed with it yet.

It may also be worth playing around with blends that incorporate a bit of POF+ yeast, whether a pinch of T-58, or wine yeast or whatever.

It's still very early days at the moment, and it's a bit of a shame that people tend to herd round certain yeasts. I think it is certain that there are better yeasts for NEIPAs than 1318 and Conan - people just haven't tried them yet.

Boom.
For what it's worth just made a pretty killer beer with London fog. My swine phone didn't save the recipe, but it was basically similar to the latest brau recipe but somewhat less flaked stuff, and possibly a dash of melanoidin in replacement of honeymalt.. Anyway the point being that it is much more plain tasting but really highlights the smooth "white" malt backbone for the more citric hops, citra, centennial, Amarillo, than specifically tropical, although there is still a bit of Mango there..
I'd say for the really tropical versions of the style with eukanot etc, and maybe a bit more caramel, such as gno, it's better to go down the juicyer road with Conan etc, possibly some Belgian in there.

This, perhaps because I've been incepted by the idea, does really suit the name London fog... Kind of pillowy, cool neutral pallet on top of which sit the hops, distinctly like... Was just about to get all poetic there.
Suffice to say good beer, good yeast. Not similar really to Conan though or juice. Nothing like sacc trios all of which are great, but in my opinion for a different version of the same process beer.

I haven't been stateside so I can't comment on treehouse, trillium etc.

 

[tld6008]

Hi All,

I brewed on Friday (above recipe) and pitched one tube of Liquid Vermont ale yeast at 72°F. As of Sunday there are no visible signs of fermentation. I was wondering if I should pitch another tube of the same yeast or if I could use some S-04 dry I have right now.

The OG was 1.070 when I pitched. Can I get a recommendation?
Thanks!

I personally would not pitch a liquid yeast unless you can be certain it is active, i.e make a starter or verify through a Wyeast Smack Pack. Not knowing the age of your yeast or what it may have been subject to I would suggest the quickest solution would be using the SO4 after rehydrating in a little sweetened water to confirm viability. If your gear is clean and sanitized the wort should be ok for a couple of days but not getting it fermenting is risky.

 

[Kosova]

Is there any way other then a closed transfer that anyone has been successful with doing to keep this from turning poopy brown? We're all set to brew this but the color has me spooked.

I bottle my neipas and usually they hold their color for at least a months. Although I had one turning brown on me, last one kept his color for 2 months aroma mostly faded as expected. Fermented in plastic bucket, second dry hop was after fermentation finished. After hops settled (can't cold crash), bottled from the fermenter's spigot and used o2 absorbing bottle caps for the first time. I'm not sure if caps helped or not but beer barely darkened.

 

[1bottlerocket]

I personally would not pitch a liquid yeast unless you can be certain it is active, i.e make a starter or verify through a Wyeast Smack Pack. Not knowing the age of your yeast or what it may have been subject to I would suggest the quickest solution would be using the SO4 after rehydrating in a little sweetened water to confirm viability. If your gear is clean and sanitized the wort should be ok for a couple of days but not getting it fermenting is risky.

I have a follow up question.

I went to repitch some S-04 and when I opened the fermenting bucket the Vermont Pale ale yeast had taken off. It looked a little sluggish judging by the amount of krausen and the bubbles coming out of the air lock. Do you think it is s good idea to pitch the S-04 anyway or just let the Vermont yeast do its thing?

Thanks again!

 

[tld6008]

I have a follow up question.

I went to repitch some S-04 and when I opened the fermenting bucket the Vermont Pale ale yeast had taken off. It looked a little sluggish judging by the amount of krausen and the bubbles coming out of the air lock. Do you think it is s good idea to pitch the S-04 anyway or just let the Vermont yeast do its thing?

Thanks again!

I would let it go. I frequently have a 18-24 hr lag time before liquid yeast takes off. If it was longer I would start to be concerned. I only ferment in carboys as I can't stand not seeing what is going on

 

[1bottlerocket]

The lag time was longer than 24 hours.

I would let it go. I frequently have a 18-24 hr lag time before liquid yeast takes off. If it was longer I would start to be concerned. I only ferment in carboys as I can't stand not seeing what is going on

It was about a 48 hour lag time, which made me nervous. I am already unsure about the whole batch and this added to my being list of things to think about.

 

[divrack]

The lag time was longer than 24 hours.

It was about a 48 hour lag time, which made me nervous. I am already unsure about the whole batch and this added to my being list of things to think about.

i used two packets of london iii in 10gal batch that didnt do anything for 72hrs pitched some burton and it started but the resultant beer is not great. definitely some wild yeast taste in it now

 

[tld6008]

The lag time was longer than 24 hours.

It was about a 48 hour lag time, which made me nervous. I am already unsure about the whole batch and this added to my being list of things to think about.

Is your temp still 72?

 

[1bottlerocket]

Is your temp still 72?

The ambient is sitting at 69.8 in my cellar. The airlock is going quite strong today. The bubbles were rolling out. it is very fragrant in my cellar with the smell of hops now too. This is the first time I have had such a long lag time. It seems to be within the range they recommend.

I read somewhere they recommend pitching a second vial of yeast (Vermont Ale) to finish up the fermentation. Has anyone ever done this?

 

[crusader1612]

Anyone used London ESB Dry Yeast from Danstar?

 

[isomerization]

The ambient is sitting at 69.8 in my cellar. The airlock is going quite strong today. The bubbles were rolling out. it is very fragrant in my cellar with the smell of hops now too. This is the first time I have had such a long lag time. It seems to be within the range they recommend.

I read somewhere they recommend pitching a second vial of yeast (Vermont Ale) to finish up the fermentation. Has anyone ever done this?

Where did you read that? Seems like a really strange process to me, especially if its a vial not an active starter.

You should really invest in making liquid yeast starters. You absolutely do not have to have a stir plate (helps speed up the process though), you can give the yeast a good swirl every couple of hours and accomplish what needs to be done (yeast multiplication).

 

[Braufessor]

The ambient is sitting at 69.8 in my cellar. The airlock is going quite strong today. The bubbles were rolling out. it is very fragrant in my cellar with the smell of hops now too. This is the first time I have had such a long lag time. It seems to be within the range they recommend.

I read somewhere they recommend pitching a second vial of yeast (Vermont Ale) to finish up the fermentation. Has anyone ever done this?

Pitching a second vial of yeast (especially something like vermont ale) is not recommended procedure. The only time that is really something to do is if you are maybe brewing a beer and through process error you pitch unhealthy yeast, or ferment at too low of a temp, or whatever....... and as a result you have a beer that totally stalls out and won't finish. Then, it might be advisable to pitch a pack of US05 or some other dry, attenuative yeast in an attempt to save your beer from dumping.
But, it is not "normal" procedure at all. In my experience, the best thing you can do with Vermont ale yeast is to do the following:
1.) Make a 1 Liter starter 18 hours before you brew
2.) Brew a low ABV blonde ale (1.40-1.45 gravity) with low hops, no dry hop
3.) When it comes time to keg the blonde, leave a quart+ of beer behind in fermenter.
4.) Swirly the yeast/beer up into solution
5.) Collect 4-6 mason jars (sanitized) of yeast slurry
6.) Use each jar to make a 1L starter 18 hours before you want to brew this (or other) beer.
7.) Pitch the entire, actively fermenting starter into your beer.

I never, ever have a problem with vermont ale yeast with that process.

If I was not going to take it through a beer to collect yeast, I would make a 1L starter several days/week before I wanted to brew, ferment it out, decant most of the liquid the day before I wanted to brew and add in a new 1L of wort (18 hours before brewing). I would then pitch the entire 1L, actively fermenting starter.

 

[ThirstyPawsHB]

Just general chit-chat. The NEIPA-ish brewed yesterday took off in about 5hrs, bubbles noticed. Never seen such a thing so early. Used Imperial A38 "Juice" and after 20hrs firing on all cylinders. 4oz of hops added to wort chilling at around 140F. IDK how it's going to end up. Used flaked Barley, white wheat and some lactose along with this 72%-78% attenuation yeast. Sh!t, at this point I'm happy with any drinkable IPA! Plan on Citra/Mosaic cryo hops and galaxy for fermentation hopping then probably keep .5oz or so for keg hopping. Of course, doing a closed loop transfer.