Wlp033Ive been using 1318 for all of my NEIPAs so far with good results but am looking to try some new yeasts to mix it up. What is everyones favorite yeast to use other than 1318?
I started off using White Labs 095 and have liked it. A week ago I kegged my first use of 1318 which I racked into a freshly kicked keg of a Julius clone per the Trinity Collab website recipe (I have made several batches of this) and I can taste the leftover yeast mix in the new brew. Tastes pretty darn good. The 1318 has turned out to be the haziest NEIPA I have made to date.Ive been using 1318 for all of my NEIPAs so far with good results but am looking to try some new yeasts to mix it up. What is everyones favorite yeast to use other than 1318?
Anyone got any good recommendations as a dry yeast?
S-04 excluded. Last couple have been disappointing despite my attempts to rectify yeast issues.
Thinking yeasts like the Allen and stuff or mangrove jacks. Any experiences.
What do you think of the Trinity Collab clone? Im interested in trying that oneI started off using White Labs 095 and have liked it. A week ago I kegged my first use of 1318 which I racked into a freshly kicked keg of a Julius clone per the Trinity Collab website recipe (I have made several batches of this) and I can taste the leftover yeast mix in the new brew. Tastes pretty darn good. The 1318 has turned out to be the haziest NEIPA I have made to date.
Conan, 1272 and I like using 2565 Kolsch Yeast in my lighter session hoppy wheat that is along the lines of a NEIPA. That Kolsch yeast never drops out. Nice and bright flavors - especially for a lighter (1.04-1.05) type version of this.Ive been using 1318 for all of my NEIPAs so far with good results but am looking to try some new yeasts to mix it up. What is everyones favorite yeast to use other than 1318?
You could Try mixing 04 with 05 or even better k97 If you can get some of the fruity esters of 04 with the less flocculent strainBump?
I've done the trinity brewers dry yeast blend. It wasn't my favorite compared to just 1318Bump?
For those with experience keg hopping, is 4 oz of pellets too much? I had a pound of Enigma of which I used 12 oz already. The rest is in the “ziplock” they came in which is in the freezer.
I've done the trinity brewers dry yeast blend. It wasn't my favorite compared to just 1318
S04 -92%
T58 - 5%
WB06 - 3%
This is a great thread to go through to see what other yeast blends people are using or dry yeast in general. Others do use liquid as well - https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/...ouse-how-to-identify-and-characterize.623221/
They will be in a canister and are pellets.Are you keg hopping lose or in a screen or bag?
Most of my NEIPAs have 14-18oz of hops total per 5 gallon batch (boil, whirlpool, dry hop). If I was using a screen, I would divide 4 oz into two screens as the hops will absorb and expand in the screens. Better utilization dividing that amount up.
I've done the trinity brewers dry yeast blend. It wasn't my favorite compared to just 1318
S04 -92%
T58 - 5%
WB06 - 3%
This is a great thread to go through to see what other yeast blends people are using or dry yeast in general. Others do use liquid as well - https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/...ouse-how-to-identify-and-characterize.623221/
Ive been using 1318 for all of my NEIPAs so far with good results but am looking to try some new yeasts to mix it up. What is everyones favorite yeast to use other than 1318?
What kind of fermentation schedule are they using with safeale yeast mixure?Let's be clear - that mix is nothing to do with Trinity Brewers, they took it from that HBT thread, although it looks a bit light on T-58 compared to more recent iterations which are more 8-10%. All the credit should go to @isomerization for the initial DNA analysis, and various HBTers on that thread for experimental brewing to nail the proportions.
Pitch at 74 then bring down to 62 for majority of fermentationWhat kind of fermentation schedule are they using with safeale yeast mixure?
I have read that entire thread, the Trinity brewer was an early contributor there but I can't recall ever seeing the 92,5,and 3 percentage combination discussed there. I could be wrong also.Let's be clear - that mix is nothing to do with Trinity Brewers, they took it from that HBT thread, although it looks a bit light on T-58 compared to more recent iterations which are more 8-10%. All the credit should go to @isomerization for the initial DNA analysis, and various HBTers on that thread for experimental brewing to nail the proportions.
I have not had any last over a week in the keg.In an effort to cut down on the hop burn, I'm thinking about utilizing gelatin in the fermenter (after it's done fermenting).
Thoughts?
This blew up my mind. Great post. I've always been interested in testing out Windsor yeast in an IPA but have been turned off with low flocc properties. Now that you've mentioned a POF- version of T-58, I'm very interested and might just take the plunge. I'm wondering if a packet of Windsor on day one, and then something that will grab it hard like S-04 on day 2. Could have a pretty bright beer afterwords? Hmm...Let's be clear - that mix is nothing to do with Trinity Brewers, they took it from that HBT thread, although it looks a bit light on T-58 compared to more recent iterations which are more 8-10%. All the credit should go to @isomerization for the initial DNA analysis, and various HBTers on that thread for experimental brewing to nail the proportions.
There are certainly some on that thread who do prefer the dry blend to 1318 - there's no "right" answer here.
Well 1318 seems to have become the new favourite - Imperial A38 Juice brews very similarly and supposedly has the same origins (although I don't really buy the Boddington thing); I've also seen it suggested that WLP775 English Cider has the same origin if you only have easy access to White Labs. See this thread for a discussion of optimising fermentation with 1318.
Conan still seems popular but commercial examples seem quite variable - WLP4000 has more character than WLP095 for instance. It's a bit notorious for needing to go through one generation before it really gets going on the peach thing, and definitely changes with different generations. Lallemand have introduced a dry version as their New England yeast for commercial brewers but seem to be struggling with viability in dry form and have yet to release it in retail packs, although some stores are unofficially breaking up commercial packs.
Saccharomyces "bruxellensis" Trois used to be classified as a Brettanomyces but is now regarded as a slightly weird Saccharomyces. It pumps out a lot of pineapple flavour - free fruit, what's not to like? Well it's a diastaticus strain so is very high attenuation which is not ideal. Although people do use it on its own, most commonly as WLP644, there seems to be a trend to sell it as three-way blends along with a Conan and something else like 1318 or WLP066. If you see a NEIPA blend advertised as imparting pineapple, then it probably contains Sacc Trois.
WLP066 London Fog seems to be a bit of a Marmite strain - some hate it, some love it. See the thread.
Beyond that - any yeast which pumps out some esters, so pretty much anything British, fermented in a way that promotes esters without too much other junk. Brewlab has a far better selection than any of the US commercial sources. We'll never quite understand the US fascination with Ringwood though! But there's no reason why clean wine yeasts or distilling yeasts might not work - the Vault strain WLP050 Tennessee Whiskey is POF- and pumps out phenyl esters for a lovely floral nose which might not be quite right in a NEIPA but definitely has potential for other styles.
I've not tried them but the closely related S-33, Windsor and Danstar ESB seem obvious candidates for a NEIPA, not least because 1318 seems to fall in the same Mixed group as them. Also S-33/Windsor seem to be effectively a POF- version of T-58, which in my hands has shown dramatic biotransformation of hop flavours - Chinook went from grapefruit to lime and other flavours for more complexity. The only trouble with biotransformation is that you lose some hop intensity, so you need more hops for a given level of flavour. I've not tested S-33 or Windsor yet to see if they show the same effect, but it's definitely on the list of things to try.
The Treehouse blend suggests that a subtle bit of Belgian character is a good thing in NEIPAs, as long as it doesn't dominate. That points to the Yorkshire Square yeasts which are almost all POF+ members of the saison family. Again Brewlab is your best source - I've always liked the sound of F40 (allegedly from Scottish & Newcastle) which is notorious for its fruitiness and which I suspect may be a saison, but the likes of Sussex 1 ("Harvey's") and HH (Hardy & Hanson, which begat Black Sheep and Elgood's) would be worth trying. WLP037 Yorkshire Square and WLP038 Manchester have been sequenced and are known to be POF+ saisons, but are Vault strains - 037 isn't that far off enough pre-purchases but we'll be waiting a while for 038. 1469 is about the only one that's regularly available. My reading leads me to suspect that Mangrove Jack M15 Empire may be related to some of these but I've not brewed with it yet.
It may also be worth playing around with blends that incorporate a bit of POF+ yeast, whether a pinch of T-58, or wine yeast or whatever.
It's still very early days at the moment, and it's a bit of a shame that people tend to herd round certain yeasts. I think it is certain that there are better yeasts for NEIPAs than 1318 and Conan - people just haven't tried them yet.
I have not had any last over a week in the keg.
What kind of fermentation schedule are they using with safale yeast mixure?
I have read that entire thread, the Trinity brewer was an early contributor there but I can't recall ever seeing the 92,5,and 3 percentage combination discussed there. I could be wrong also.
This blew up my mind. Great post. I've always been interested in testing out Windsor yeast in an IPA but have been turned off with low flocc properties. Now that you've mentioned a POF- version of T-58, I'm very interested and might just take the plunge. I'm wondering if a packet of Windsor on day one, and then something that will grab it hard like S-04 on day 2. Could have a pretty bright beer afterwords? Hmm...
I did not do a closed transfer when I brewed my NEIPA, and the color never turned brown (my profile pic is my NEIPA). I had to take posts, poppets, and dip tubes apart several times due to clogging (terrible transfer from fermenter to keg on my part), too. My process was: filling up keg all the way up with Star San solution, hooking it up to the gas, and pushing it through the tap. I then released the pressure, opened the keg lid, and racked from fermenter. Purged with gas once I was done.Is there any way other then a closed transfer that anyone has been successful with doing to keep this from turning poopy brown? We're all set to brew this but the color has me spooked.
I was reading a post about Green Flash Le Freak. The brewer said they pitch their Belgian yeast first to allow esters/phenols to form, then pitch their house yeast a day later. I was thinking something along those lines.Most traditional British breweries use or used to use a multistrain, which was typically a high attenuator and a good floccer that were effectively pitched together. So I wouldn't try to complicate things too much in terms of timing. But I'd suggest it would be desirable to have a pinch of something POF+ in the mix somewhere.
Hi All,
Steeping grains:
1lb Marris Otter
0.5 lb melanoiden
1lb Flaked Wheat
0.5lb Flaked oats (Precook oats using extra water)
Add all to steeping bag
(I am following a somewhat modified procedure outlined by Yooper
Steep the grains in 1.75 gallons of water and hold at 45 minutes to 60 minutes at 150-154.
Thanks for the information.With your steeping grain bill you have to watch the diastatic power (DP) to get conversion of the flaked grains and melanoiden, otherwise you'll end up with a low efficiency for that portion. By my math you have about 18, when you need a minimum of 30, and are better off even higher. Solutions would bet switching out the Maris Otter for American Two-Row, or switching a portion of your DME to grain (a pound would get you closer). Or of course you could just add more DME to get your target OG, but I'm not sure how the low DP might affect the proteins and goodies from the flaked portions which give a NEIPA its body.
I was getting low efficiencies on some of my beers lately (all grain) and when looking closer at the trend it was when the DP was down between 30 and 50 for the mash.
FWH= first wort hops, they go in as water is heating up to boilThanks for the information.
I noticed on the math that I was low too. I went ahead and doubled the Marris Otter in my steep. I am going to take a gravity reading before topping it off and adding it to the fermentation bucket to see where it is. I am on a tight schedule today and went ahead and made it today before waiting for a reply. After doing more reading in this thread, Braufessor indicated that closer to 1.060 might be a better starting point.
My children are on holiday next week so I wanted to get it going today, as I will probably not have another chance to do this for a few weeks.
I'll keep you posted on how it turns out.
I can chime in about bottling. Pre-NEIPA days, I'd brew IPAs as "normal" in buckets, dry hop in buckets. Have them open to air during transfers. Some of the best beers I've made. I'd use Safale-05 for 2 weeks, cold crash, transfer and dry hop for another 10days, transfer to a bottling bucket and bottle.Thanks for the reply. I had no idea, as I am so new to brewing.
I was reading about the kegging vs. Bottling. I don't have that sort of set up yet so bottles it is for me. I am splitting the batch three ways so hopefully it will drink fresh.
It has been a real learning curve and I feel like I am still driving with limited vision. The Palmer book and this forum have been a big help.
It will be interesting to see how it turns out. The hop aroma in my kitchen was incredible!
3864 was my favorite yeast 7 years ago when it was out. Need to go get some again!Also worth keeping an eye out for any seasonal releases that might be worth a go - for instance Wyeast's Q3 releases include 3864 Belgian/Canadian, supposedly from Unibroue of Quebec and which is a "mildly" Belgian yeast with plenty of esters that sounds well worth a try.
WLP033 was released in May, WLP006 was due in November (although White Labs seem to be having second thoughts on their release schedule) - both would be worth a go.
Completely OT, but Wyeast also have 3789 Trappist Blend ("Orval") and 3463 Forbidden Fruit in their Q3 seasonals if anyone's interested.
Boom.Let's be clear - that mix is nothing to do with Trinity Brewers, they took it from that HBT thread, although it looks a bit light on T-58 compared to more recent iterations which are more 8-10%. All the credit should go to @isomerization for the initial DNA analysis, and various HBTers on that thread for experimental brewing to nail the proportions.
There are certainly some on that thread who do prefer the dry blend to 1318 - there's no "right" answer here.
Well 1318 seems to have become the new favourite - Imperial A38 Juice brews very similarly and supposedly has the same origins (although I don't really buy the Boddington thing); I've also seen it suggested that WLP775 English Cider has the same origin if you only have easy access to White Labs. See this thread for a discussion of optimising fermentation with 1318.
Conan still seems popular but commercial examples seem quite variable - WLP4000 has more character than WLP095 for instance. It's a bit notorious for needing to go through one generation before it really gets going on the peach thing, and definitely changes with different generations. Lallemand have introduced a dry version as their New England yeast for commercial brewers but seem to be struggling with viability in dry form and have yet to release it in retail packs, although some stores are unofficially breaking up commercial packs.
Saccharomyces "bruxellensis" Trois used to be classified as a Brettanomyces but is now regarded as a slightly weird Saccharomyces. It pumps out a lot of pineapple flavour - free fruit, what's not to like? Well it's a diastaticus strain so is very high attenuation which is not ideal. Although people do use it on its own, most commonly as WLP644, there seems to be a trend to sell it as three-way blends along with a Conan and something else like 1318 or WLP066. If you see a NEIPA blend advertised as imparting pineapple, then it probably contains Sacc Trois.
WLP066 London Fog seems to be a bit of a Marmite strain - some hate it, some love it. See the thread.
The more characterful kveiks like Hornindal seem an obvious choice if you want a yeast that isn't subtle in its contribution in a Sacc Trois kind of way, orange seems to be the usual flavour mentioned. But getting hold of them may not be easy - we only have one importer in the UK of the Omega range, and the kveiks sell out within about 24h of hitting the website.
Beyond that - any yeast which pumps out some esters, so pretty much anything British, fermented in a way that promotes esters without too much other junk. Brewlab has a far better selection than any of the US commercial sources. We'll never quite understand the US fascination with Ringwood though! But there's no reason why clean wine yeasts or distilling yeasts might not work - the Vault strain WLP050 Tennessee Whiskey is POF- and pumps out phenyl esters for a lovely floral nose which might not be quite right in a NEIPA but definitely has potential for other styles.
I've not tried them but the closely related S-33, Windsor and Danstar ESB seem obvious candidates for a NEIPA, not least because 1318 seems to fall in the same Mixed group as them. Also S-33/Windsor seem to be effectively a POF- version of T-58, which in my hands has shown dramatic biotransformation of hop flavours - Chinook went from grapefruit to lime and other flavours for more complexity. The only trouble with biotransformation is that you lose some hop intensity, so you need more hops for a given level of flavour. I've not tested S-33 or Windsor yet to see if they show the same effect, but it's definitely on the list of things to try.
The Treehouse blend suggests that a subtle bit of Belgian character is a good thing in NEIPAs, as long as it doesn't dominate. That points to the Yorkshire Square yeasts which are almost all POF+ members of the saison family. Again Brewlab is your best source - I've always liked the sound of F40 (allegedly from Scottish & Newcastle) which is notorious for its fruitiness and which I suspect may be a saison, but the likes of Sussex 1 ("Harvey's") and HH (Hardy & Hanson, which begat Black Sheep and Elgood's) would be worth trying. WLP037 Yorkshire Square and WLP038 Manchester have been sequenced and are known to be POF+ saisons, but are Vault strains - 037 isn't that far off enough pre-purchases but we'll be waiting a while for 038. 1469 is about the only one that's regularly available. My reading leads me to suspect that Mangrove Jack M15 Empire may be related to some of these but I've not brewed with it yet.
It may also be worth playing around with blends that incorporate a bit of POF+ yeast, whether a pinch of T-58, or wine yeast or whatever.
It's still very early days at the moment, and it's a bit of a shame that people tend to herd round certain yeasts. I think it is certain that there are better yeasts for NEIPAs than 1318 and Conan - people just haven't tried them yet.
I personally would not pitch a liquid yeast unless you can be certain it is active, i.e make a starter or verify through a Wyeast Smack Pack. Not knowing the age of your yeast or what it may have been subject to I would suggest the quickest solution would be using the SO4 after rehydrating in a little sweetened water to confirm viability. If your gear is clean and sanitized the wort should be ok for a couple of days but not getting it fermenting is risky.Hi All,
I brewed on Friday (above recipe) and pitched one tube of Liquid Vermont ale yeast at 72°F. As of Sunday there are no visible signs of fermentation. I was wondering if I should pitch another tube of the same yeast or if I could use some S-04 dry I have right now.
The OG was 1.070 when I pitched. Can I get a recommendation?
Thanks!
Is there any way other then a closed transfer that anyone has been successful with doing to keep this from turning poopy brown? We're all set to brew this but the color has me spooked.
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