New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[RTHP99]

I dont have any epsom salt, can i use kosher or Himalayan salt in place of it in the same amounts?

 

[TimmyWit]

Brewhouse efficiencies in the 80's seem pretty standard for Grainfather type systems, unless you're asking how come it's so low? You should be able to get 70% for most normal beers - if you're doing BIAB then look at getting a finer crush.

I don't brew on a GF but I think it depends on what you're brewing as well as your process and how you plug the numbers into Beersmith. My BH eff is significantly higher if I'm doing something like a lager vs a NE IPA. If you look @Beerdrinker85 Beersmith screenshot, it shows a 7.25G pre-boil and 6.75G into the fermenter. With that math, there is 0 equipment loss, very little boil-off and every drop of kettle trub is going in the fermenter. I brew between 8G and 15G batches and I usually leave between 2-4G in the kettle with this style which kills BH eff but I'd rather leave all that trub behind.

 

[stickyfinger]

I dont have any epsom salt, can i use kosher or Himalayan salt in place of it in the same amounts?

epsom salt is magnesium chloride. the others you listed are sodium chloride? if you care about the magnesium va sodium then no

EDIT! - I looked it up again and found that it is actually magnesium SULFATE. Sorry for the confusion!

 

[gnor]

I dont have any epsom salt, can i use kosher or Himalayan salt in place of it in the same amounts?

Epsom salt, named for a bitter saline spring at Epsom in Surrey, England, is not actually salt but a naturally occurring pure mineral compound of magnesium and sulfate.

No, you cannot replace it with Kosher or Himalayan salt. They are different.

 

[Braufessor]

No, you cannot replace it with Kosher or Himalayan salt. They are different.

+1
You would be better off replacing the epsom salt with gypsum to get a similar sulfate level.

 

[stickyfinger]

+1
You would be better off replacing the epsom salt with gypsum to get a similar sulfate level.

i would use calcium chloride to replace the chloride ions in the epsom salt, no?

EDIT: I looked it up and epsom salt is in fact magnesium SULFATE. Sorry for the confusion and my apologies to Brau! gypsum would probably be a fine replacement unless you really care about getting some magnesium in there (which you may care about if you are starting from RO water.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium_sulfate

 

[RTHP99]

+1
You would be better off replacing the epsom salt with gypsum to get a similar sulfate level.

Last time I brewed this I just used your simplified water additions, I guess I'll stick with that ( I havr gypsum, calcium chloride, and lactic acid).

 

[gnor]

You can buy Epsom Salt from Wal-Mart, Target, or Costco.

You can find it in the health section. Just make sure you don't buy those with perfume added.

 

[BrewCityBaller]

While we're talking water chemistry...

I did my first NEIPA batch this weekend and added 0.1 mL of lactic acid per gallon H2O, as recommended. This, along with my salt additions, left me at a pH of 5.55. This is at the very high end of what is generally acceptable for brewing.

Is this what everyone else is seeing? Or do I need to up the acid additions.

 

[Braufessor]

While we're talking water chemistry...

I did my first NEIPA batch this weekend and added 0.1 mL of lactic acid per gallon H2O, as recommended. This, along with my salt additions, left me at a pH of 5.55. This is at the very high end of what is generally acceptable for brewing.

Is this what everyone else is seeing? Or do I need to up the acid additions.

3 thoughts -
1.) Are you sure the water you used was RO water and within actual RO specs?
2.) How did you measure pH? Do you have a good meter and is it in good shape.
3.) REpresentative sample? Salts mixed in well, grain mixed in well. Enough time for pH to settle in?

5.55 is higher than you should get with true RO water and salts.... especially if you also added lactic acid.

 

[BrewCityBaller]

3 thoughts -
1.) Are you sure the water you used was RO water and within actual RO specs?
2.) How did you measure pH? Do you have a good meter and is it in good shape.
3.) REpresentative sample? Salts mixed in well, grain mixed in well. Enough time for pH to settle in?

5.55 is higher than you should get with true RO water and salts.... especially if you also added lactic acid.

1) I use bottled distilled water from the grocery store. I assume that it is, in fact, distilled, but I don't know for sure!

2) Ten minutes into the mash I drew a liquid sample, then cooled it to 60*F. I then measured it with a $30 pH meter recently calibrated at 60*F. I don't recall exactly what brand, but I take care of it.

3) I feel as though it was a representative sample, but I don't know for sure. I mix the salts thoroughly into the water while the water is heated. I also mix grain into water for the mash and waited 10 min before drawing a sample.

Any suggestions on a better process would b helpful!

 

[ba-brewer]

While we're talking water chemistry...

I did my first NEIPA batch this weekend and added 0.1 mL of lactic acid per gallon H2O, as recommended. This, along with my salt additions, left me at a pH of 5.55. This is at the very high end of what is generally acceptable for brewing.

Is this what everyone else is seeing? Or do I need to up the acid additions.

1) I use bottled distilled water from the grocery store. I assume that it is, in fact, distilled, but I don't know for sure!

2) Ten minutes into the mash I drew a liquid sample, then cooled it to 60*F. I then measured it with a $30 pH meter recently calibrated at 60*F. I don't recall exactly what brand, but I take care of it.

3) I feel as though it was a representative sample, but I don't know for sure. I mix the salts thoroughly into the water while the water is heated. I also mix grain into water for the mash and waited 10 min before drawing a sample.

Any suggestions on a better process would b helpful!

I think your measurement might be normal but I cant tell without a grain bill and actual salt additions. If you have mostly pale malts and not very much crystal I would think that is about right. I believe the ph drops a bit over the time of mash so even if you start at 5.55 it was probable a bit lower at the end.

Make sure to calibrate your ph meter every brew day. And get a copy of brunwater to check against your findings.
https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/

 

[Braufessor]

1) I use bottled distilled water from the grocery store. I assume that it is, in fact, distilled, but I don't know for sure!

2) Ten minutes into the mash I drew a liquid sample, then cooled it to 60*F. I then measured it with a $30 pH meter recently calibrated at 60*F. I don't recall exactly what brand, but I take care of it.

3) I feel as though it was a representative sample, but I don't know for sure. I mix the salts thoroughly into the water while the water is heated. I also mix grain into water for the mash and waited 10 min before drawing a sample.

Any suggestions on a better process would b helpful!

If your water was distilled - that is not the problem.

To be honest, I think the issue could be your meter possibly. The cheaper meters can be inconsistent and inaccurate. I don't know how your pH could be that high with distilled water, salts in right amounts and lactic acid addition as well.

What was the amount of gypsum and Ca Cl you used and how much water?

I would say the big thing is let the result speak for itself..... see how it tastes. You don't want to get too wrapped up in a measurement - the thing that matters is the flavor. If it tastes the way you are hoping, it could just be a bad measurement, and you don't want to be running around trying to "fix" a number if the flavor is on point.

 

[BrewCityBaller]

I think your measurement might be normal but I cant tell without a grain bill and actual salt additions. If you have mostly pale malts and not very much crystal I would think that is about right. I believe the ph drops a bit over the time of mash so even if you start at 5.55 it was probable a bit lower at the end.

Make sure to calibrate your ph meter every brew day. And get a copy of brunwater to check against your findings.
https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/

Grain bill:
5lbs 7.4oz Golden Promise
5lbs 7.4oz 2-row
1lbs 1.6oz Flaked Barley
1lbs 1.6oz Flaked Oats
1lbs 1.6oz Wheat Malt
4.8oz Honey Malt
4.8oz Flaked Wheat

So yes, very pale malt bill.

Salt additions for 11 gallons distilled:
9g Calcium Chloride
6.6g Gypsum
3.4g Epsom Salt
1g NaCl
1.1 mL Lactic Acid (88% Conc.)

According to BeerSmith, my ion concentrations are as follows:
Ca: 96ppm
Mg: 8ppm
Na: 9.4ppm
SO4: 120.3ppm
Cl: 119.2ppm

Never considered calibrating my pH meter every brew day. That's awfully tedious! But maybe necessary.

If your water was distilled - that is not the problem.

To be honest, I think the issue could be your meter possibly. The cheaper meters can be inconsistent and inaccurate. I don't know how your pH could be that high with distilled water, salts in right amounts and lactic acid addition as well.

What was the amount of gypsum and Ca Cl you used and how much water?

I would say the big thing is let the result speak for itself..... see how it tastes. You don't want to get too wrapped up in a measurement - the thing that matters is the flavor. If it tastes the way you are hoping, it could just be a bad measurement, and you don't want to be running around trying to "fix" a number if the flavor is on point.

You can see above for the grain bill, salt additions, and estimated ion concentrations. You may be right about the meter. Excellent advice too, if it tastes good why mess with it. I will see how it turns out.

 

[RTHP99]

So I just brewed this again, and had a brain fart... forgot to add hops at 170, they didnt go untill about 106 degrees. Lets see how it turns out

 

[jakturner]

The talk a while back about trilliums dialed in recipe that was posted online got me interested. I think I’m gonna take a stab at something like it tomorrow, got a London III starter going today. Tell me what y’all think.

White Girl Wasted IPA
3.5 gallon batch
60% 2 row
40% white wheat
OG 1.065

4oz simcoe at FO/WP

1 can welches 100% white grape juice concentrate (makes 48oz of juice) on day 2

2oz each of Nelson Sauvin, galaxy, and Citra DH on day 3

The juice has potassium metasulfite will that be a problem? Thanks

Made this, turned out very good. The Nelson, galaxy and grape juice work very well together. As to be expected it’s a bit drier than usual but definitely has a sauvignon blanc quality to it. Also it’s more murkier than usual as well.

 

[ba-brewer]

Grain bill:
5lbs 7.4oz Golden Promise
5lbs 7.4oz 2-row
1lbs 1.6oz Flaked Barley
1lbs 1.6oz Flaked Oats
1lbs 1.6oz Wheat Malt
4.8oz Honey Malt
4.8oz Flaked Wheat

So yes, very pale malt bill.

Salt additions for 11 gallons distilled:
9g Calcium Chloride
6.6g Gypsum
3.4g Epsom Salt
1g NaCl
1.1 mL Lactic Acid (88% Conc.)

According to BeerSmith, my ion concentrations are as follows:
Ca: 96ppm
Mg: 8ppm
Na: 9.4ppm
SO4: 120.3ppm
Cl: 119.2ppm

Never considered calibrating my pH meter every brew day. That's awfully tedious! But maybe necessary.


You can see above for the grain bill, salt additions, and estimated ion concentrations. You may be right about the meter. Excellent advice too, if it tastes good why mess with it. I will see how it turns out.

put your info into brunwater and it estimated 5.41 if you did a 11gal no sparge. Seems like a lot of water. How much water did you mash with?​

 

[BrewCityBaller]

put your info into brunwater and it estimated 5.41 if you did a 11gal no sparge. Seems like a lot of water. How much water did you mash with?​

I didn't do no sparge. It was a batch sparge. There were 5.2 gallons in the mash.

 

[Braufessor]

Grain bill:
5lbs 7.4oz Golden Promise
5lbs 7.4oz 2-row
1lbs 1.6oz Flaked Barley
1lbs 1.6oz Flaked Oats
1lbs 1.6oz Wheat Malt
4.8oz Honey Malt
4.8oz Flaked Wheat

So yes, very pale malt bill.

Salt additions for 11 gallons distilled:
9g Calcium Chloride
6.6g Gypsum
3.4g Epsom Salt
1g NaCl
1.1 mL Lactic Acid (88% Conc.)

According to BeerSmith, my ion concentrations are as follows:
Ca: 96ppm
Mg: 8ppm
Na: 9.4ppm
SO4: 120.3ppm
Cl: 119.2ppm

Never considered calibrating my pH meter every brew day. That's awfully tedious! But maybe necessary.



You can see above for the grain bill, salt additions, and estimated ion concentrations. You may be right about the meter. Excellent advice too, if it tastes good why mess with it. I will see how it turns out.

It is the meter./reading..... Everything else looks good. If you have a $30 meter and are not calibrating it every time, you are unlikely to get an accurate reading....... even if you are calibrating it every time, you may be hit and miss on accuracy.
I think your senses are going to be your best bet on this particular batch. See how it comes out for you. In the end, the "pH Number" may not have lined up with your expectations, but you may find the beer is just fine and that number may not have been accurate.

I have a good (not great) meter and I calibrate it every single time I use it, and I have never gotten a pH that high on this beer with the water/additions you describe above. This is the pH meter I have and it has worked well for me: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001DTNDME/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[stickyfinger]

It is the meter./reading..... Everything else looks good. If you have a $30 meter and are not calibrating it every time, you are unlikely to get an accurate reading....... even if you are calibrating it every time, you may be hit and miss on accuracy.
I think your senses are going to be your best bet on this particular batch. See how it comes out for you. In the end, the "pH Number" may not have lined up with your expectations, but you may find the beer is just fine and that number may not have been accurate.

I have a good (not great) meter and I calibrate it every single time I use it, and I have never gotten a pH that high on this beer with the water/additions you describe above. This is the pH meter I have and it has worked well for me: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001DTNDME/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

What pH are you usually getting on this as measured at room temperature? I usually aim for 5.4-5.55 for my room temp reading. That should get me into the 5.1-5.25 range at mash temps right?

 

[Braufessor]

I believe so on the conversion for temp..... but, I never speak about pH at anything other than room temperature. I know there are some exceptions here and there in the way info is presented, but as a general rule, pH is always stated at room temperature.

I am always in approximately the 5.35-5.45 range

 

[Hannabrew]

This is true. My Molsen Ice loving father over the past year has had more Tree House beers than Molsen. Before, Yuengling used to be too much for him but Julius is now his favorite.

That's quite the upgrade

 

[ihavenonickname]

My next effort with a few tweaks: 40% golden promise. Gonnna mash at 150 to bring down FG a bit. Upped the honey malt to 3%.

Whirlpool 4oz azacca, 2oz citra.
Dry hop: 4oz azacca, 2oz golden 007.

Gonna try Conan yeast at 68 to get some peach.

 

[tld6008]

Grain bill:
5lbs 7.4oz Golden Promise
5lbs 7.4oz 2-row
1lbs 1.6oz Flaked Barley
1lbs 1.6oz Flaked Oats
1lbs 1.6oz Wheat Malt
4.8oz Honey Malt
4.8oz Flaked Wheat

So yes, very pale malt bill.

Salt additions for 11 gallons distilled:
9g Calcium Chloride
6.6g Gypsum
3.4g Epsom Salt
1g NaCl
1.1 mL Lactic Acid (88% Conc.)

According to BeerSmith, my ion concentrations are as follows:
Ca: 96ppm
Mg: 8ppm
Na: 9.4ppm
SO4: 120.3ppm
Cl: 119.2ppm

Never considered calibrating my pH meter every brew day. That's awfully tedious! But maybe necessary.



You can see above for the grain bill, salt additions, and estimated ion concentrations. You may be right about the meter. Excellent advice too, if it tastes good why mess with it. I will see how it turns out.

I use the following consistently
6 lb 2row
6 lb G-promise
1 lb Flk Oats
.5 lb Flk Barley
.5 lb Torrified Wht
.25 lb Honey Mlt
.25 lb Flk Wht
10 gal total RO water and use 2.6 ml lactic in 5 gal mash water for ph of 5.3
I have experienced huge discrepancies in the lactic acid additions from various water calculators (BWater the lowest) I find Mash Made Easy reliable

 

[divrack]

Nice! I get about 65% and 55% with RISs.

Hey I was following the thread a while back and saw you'd been having multiple dumpers due to O2 and diacetyl you thought. How's that issue going? I only ask as it seemed crazy to me. I've never had any issue with oxygenation in this style and I'm not particularly manic about limiting it, plus ferment in crappy buckets... Drinking one now in fact.
Can't say I've ever noticed diacetyl either although some brown malty ones perhaps had a hint but might have been the cara.

It's hard though identifying things without an objective rule. I have a problem that comes up now and again and it's a bugger pinning down, so I was interested if your problem found it's solution

 

[stickyfinger]

Hey I was following the thread a while back and saw you'd been having multiple dumpers due to O2 and diacetyl you thought. How's that issue going? I only ask as it seemed crazy to me. I've never had any issue with oxygenation in this style and I'm not particularly manic about limiting it, plus ferment in crappy buckets... Drinking one now in fact.
Can't say I've ever noticed diacetyl either although some brown malty ones perhaps had a hint but might have been the cara.

It's hard though identifying things without an objective rule. I have a problem that comes up now and again and it's a bugger pinning down, so I was interested if your problem found it's solution

for me, diacetyl is not a problem since i stopped cold crashing and i leave the beers in primary longer.

 

[stickyfinger]

for me, diacetyl is not a problem since i stopped cold crashing and i leave the beers in primary longer.

i also swapped my autosiphon for a racking cane. not sure what the magic bullet was.

 

[Hannabrew]

Hey I was following the thread a while back and saw you'd been having multiple dumpers due to O2 and diacetyl you thought. How's that issue going? I only ask as it seemed crazy to me. I've never had any issue with oxygenation in this style and I'm not particularly manic about limiting it, plus ferment in crappy buckets... Drinking one now in fact.
Can't say I've ever noticed diacetyl either although some brown malty ones perhaps had a hint but might have been the cara.

It's hard though identifying things without an objective rule. I have a problem that comes up now and again and it's a bugger pinning down, so I was interested if your problem found it's solution

If you're not trying to limit oxygen on the cold side anywhere you can in this style you are going to have flavor degradation very quickly.

It won't taste oxidized but it won't be what it could be.

The buckets are not much of a concern as long as you're racking the beer out before the end of fermentation

 

[BrewCityBaller]

It is the meter./reading..... Everything else looks good. If you have a $30 meter and are not calibrating it every time, you are unlikely to get an accurate reading....... even if you are calibrating it every time, you may be hit and miss on accuracy.
I think your senses are going to be your best bet on this particular batch. See how it comes out for you. In the end, the "pH Number" may not have lined up with your expectations, but you may find the beer is just fine and that number may not have been accurate.

I have a good (not great) meter and I calibrate it every single time I use it, and I have never gotten a pH that high on this beer with the water/additions you describe above. This is the pH meter I have and it has worked well for me: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001DTNDME/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Excellent! Thanks so much for the help. I am glad to hear it all looks good. I am kegging this weekend, so hopefully it will be delicious.

 

[Rainy]

Great interview with Henry from Monkish to be found here, with the first half talking a lot about the processes he uses for creating his ipas.
It's mainly interesting because the high Cl-SO4 ratio and the dry-hopping during fermentation don't seem to be that important as we all think.
Also nice to hear that his NEIPAs take 30 days from brewing before they are released in cans, mainly because of stability reasons it seems.