New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[pearljam1984]

For my next batch I’m considering adding some lactose, which I have never done.

Is 8oz a good starting point? For 6/6.5 gallon batch.

Not looking for it to be overwhelming, but more of a slight mouthfeel addition.

 

[grassfeeder]

For my next batch I’m considering adding some lactose, which I have never done.

Is 8oz a good starting point? For 6/6.5 gallon batch.

Not looking for it to be overwhelming, but more of a slight mouthfeel addition.

I've added lactose to my last two batches and have been adding 4-5oz. per 5 gallon (net)

 

[GnenieGone]

5 days in and changes detected. The original. Now the left is from a bottle and right from keg. Both have noticeably less hop presence. 9oz total in 3.5gal batch.

 

[ryanm8]

5 days in and changes detected. The original. Now the left is from a bottle and right from keg. Both have noticeably less hop presence. 9oz total in 3.5gal batch.
View attachment 557702View attachment 557703

Interesting. So the keg one is darker eh? Do they taste different?

I will post up a pic of the last batch I bottled after one month to see if I notice a difference

 

[milldoggy]

Do you force carb?

 

[pearljam1984]

5 days in and changes detected. The original. Now the left is from a bottle and right from keg. Both have noticeably less hop presence. 9oz total in 3.5gal batch.
View attachment 557702View attachment 557703

I can’t speak to the color, but I can say I have seen it go from hazy(pre keg) to less hazy(after kegging), meaning it cleared some in the keg. The color is strange I would think the bottled version would be darker.

 

[GnenieGone]

Interesting. So the keg one is darker eh? Do they taste different?

I will post up a pic of the last batch I bottled after one month to see if I notice a difference

For the most part no since the flavor significantly disappated in both.

Do you force carb?

Yes. force carb. The 1st pic is after 18hr in the keg.

I can’t speak to the color, but I can say I have seen it go from hazy(pre keg) to less hazy(after kegging), meaning it cleared some in the keg. The color is strange I would think the bottled version would be darker.

Couldn't agree more. Why the darker keg version? These are frustrating...

 

[stickyfinger]

For the most part no since the flavor significantly disappated in both.

Yes. force carb. The 1st pic is after 18hr in the keg.



Couldn't agree more. Why the darker keg version? These are frustrating...

that is insane! there must be something horribly wrong somewhere. hard to believe!

 

[anteater8]

I brewed this with Mosaic & Ekuanot 1:1 and entered it in my first competition. It scored a 33 (no medals). I have no idea how well it held up for the month or so between bottling off the keg and judging.

I was also surprised to see that there were 14 entries in the specialty IPA category, which I think included a lot of northeast style, versus the 17 entries in the regular IPA category.

 

[mlafnitzegger]

Denali \ Vic Secret \ Citra is my favorite hop combo at present. Very Pineapplely...

 

[mlafnitzegger]

Mouth Feel:
How to achieve more...
Lots of reading and think there is not a single way to get the mouth feel but using multiple factors that all add silk\
smooth to mouth feel.
- Water
adjust chloride\sulfates (I add 10% of calcium chloride addition to boil)
- grains\additions
malto dextrine
- mash temp
154-156
- yeast
under pitch
- carbonation
low
- serving temp
higher then normal

Thoughts? Any other factors I am missing...

 

[cegan09]

5 days in and changes detected. The original. Now the left is from a bottle and right from keg. Both have noticeably less hop presence. 9oz total in 3.5gal batch.

I'm not saying that something else isn't happening, but some of that change is simply the beer clearing some. You said you rushed this one into the keg, so i'm sure there was a lot more stuff in suspension than if you'd let it ride another 5+ days in the fermenter. (yeast, hop material, proteins, etc). All that stuff in suspension makes the color look lighter than it really is. Compare the color of beer at peak fermentation to after cold crash, that's the extreme comparison.

As to what is behind the rest of it, I'm honestly not sure.

 

[stickyfinger]

Mouth Feel:
How to achieve more...
Lots of reading and think there is not a single way to get the mouth feel but using multiple factors that all add silk\
smooth to mouth feel.
- Water
adjust chloride\sulfates (I add 10% of calcium chloride addition to boil)
- grains\additions
malto dextrine
- mash temp
154-156
- yeast
under pitch
- carbonation
low
- serving temp
higher then normal

Thoughts? Any other factors I am missing...

-Carapils does nothing IMHO.
-mash temp doesn't do much either IMHO unless maybe you take it really high, like 160-165 and then shoot for a higher OG, which will result in more "stuff" in solution for a lower ABV than you'd get at a lower OG with a lower mash temp. dark malts add creaminess and foam, but aren't appropriate in the style for the most part.
-low carbonation is key IMHO, but you need enough to get the aromatics to pop out
-warmer serving temp is key too.
-i think that for a give OG, there is a given amount of a particular dry hop variety/crop that you can add in the dryhop and not have it start to come across as dry or astringent. so, 1 oz/gal of dry hops in a 1.050 beer will taste a lot dryer than 1 oz/gal in a 1.075 beer all else held constant. So, the general point is that in general fewer dry hops and fewer dry hops of hops that are known to create a perception of dryness will result in a final beer that is more round in flavor.
-yeast in suspension can be a two-edged sword. it seems to me that yeast can make a beer taste fuller or rounder, but it can also leave a yeast bite sometimes.
-yeast selection can increase mouthfeel - some strains just taste rounder/smoother, especially when they leave more residual sugars
-leaving more residual sugars in a beer will give a perception of fullness, richness and mouthfeel. the key here is to not leave too many sugars that taste sweet, as that can be cloying (though we all have our preferences there.)
-omitting sulfate in the beer at all will make the beer taste more full too IMHO. Sulfate makes beers taste thinner and dryer (sometimes a good thing - lots of room for personal preference here.)
-one fantastic way to make a creamy full beer is to add oak to it. that doesn't work in this style though either...

 

[marjen]

I am looking for some advise on the ideal temps for WY1318. I have a SS Brewtech Unitank and just purchased a glycol chiller so I will have complete heating and cooling control for the first time. I see some people start lower (mid-60s) and let it rise towards the end. SO whats the ideal initial and ending temps and how often should I ramp it up?

Lets say I brew on a Saturday and I am planning on transferring to keg 13 days out on a Thursday night. I am thinking something like this.

Day 1 - Initial 64
Day 2-3 - bump to 66
Day 4-5 bump 68
Day 6-8 bump to 70
Day 9-10 - bump to 72
Day 11- Cold crash to 35
Day 12 - Carb in tank
Day 13 - transfer to keg

Any suggestions or alterations to this? Thanks.

 

[grassfeeder]

Juts ferm at 67-68 and rise to 72

 

[Sbe2]

I am looking for some advise on the ideal temps for WY1318. I have a SS Brewtech Unitank and just purchased a glycol chiller so I will have complete heating and cooling control for the first time. I see some people start lower (mid-60s) and let it rise towards the end. SO whats the ideal initial and ending temps and how often should I ramp it up?

Lets say I brew on a Saturday and I am planning on transferring to keg 13 days out on a Thursday night. I am thinking something like this.

Day 1 - Initial 64
Day 2-3 - bump to 66
Day 4-5 bump 68
Day 6-8 bump to 70
Day 9-10 - bump to 72
Day 11- Cold crash to 35
Day 12 - Carb in tank
Day 13 - transfer to keg

Any suggestions or alterations to this? Thanks.

I brewed one last month with the almost identical temp schedule and got kind of a ripe apricot with Simcoe, Amarillo, and Mosaic and 1318.

This weekend I brewed a blonde/session to build up my 1318 reserves and am holding the temp at 68, but pitched around 66. Now I just have to wait for the comparison. I know that @TheHairyHop has been using 1318 from the TH thread.

 

[pearljam1984]

I am looking for some advise on the ideal temps for WY1318. I have a SS Brewtech Unitank and just purchased a glycol chiller so I will have complete heating and cooling control for the first time. I see some people start lower (mid-60s) and let it rise towards the end. SO whats the ideal initial and ending temps and how often should I ramp it up?

Lets say I brew on a Saturday and I am planning on transferring to keg 13 days out on a Thursday night. I am thinking something like this.

Day 1 - Initial 64
Day 2-3 - bump to 66
Day 4-5 bump 68
Day 6-8 bump to 70
Day 9-10 - bump to 72
Day 11- Cold crash to 35
Day 12 - Carb in tank
Day 13 - transfer to keg

Any suggestions or alterations to this? Thanks.

I ferment at 65 for 48 hrs. Bump to high 68ish on day 3. Then day 4 I test gravity, it’s usually close and move to 72 until crashing.

 

[degivens]

I am looking for some advise on the ideal temps for WY1318. I have a SS Brewtech Unitank and just purchased a glycol chiller so I will have complete heating and cooling control for the first time. I see some people start lower (mid-60s) and let it rise towards the end. SO whats the ideal initial and ending temps and how often should I ramp it up?

Lets say I brew on a Saturday and I am planning on transferring to keg 13 days out on a Thursday night. I am thinking something like this.

Day 1 - Initial 64
Day 2-3 - bump to 66
Day 4-5 bump 68
Day 6-8 bump to 70
Day 9-10 - bump to 72
Day 11- Cold crash to 35
Day 12 - Carb in tank
Day 13 - transfer to keg

Any suggestions or alterations to this? Thanks.

If you want some more of the fruity esters that 1318 is known for — I like starting at 68 and bumping up 1 degree every 2 days until you hit 72 then just hold it there until you’re ready to cold crash.

 

[jakturner]

edit

 

[jakturner]

For the most part no since the flavor significantly disappated in both.

Yes. force carb. The 1st pic is after 18hr in the keg.



Couldn't agree more. Why the darker keg version? These are frustrating...

Did you say in a previous post that you use a bucket to ferment? If so, maybe with 3.5 gallons you had too much head space, plus the added permeability of the plastic. If your only doing a 3.5 gallons try fermenting in keg

 

[GnenieGone]

Did you say in a previous post that you use a bucket to ferment? If so, maybe with 3.5 gallons you had too much head space, plus the added permeability of the plastic. If your only doing a 3.5 gallons try fermenting in keg

Never fermented in a keg before. I only have 2.5gal keg tho. Need to understand the logistics. seems like a lot of material would xfer to your next keg right

 

[anteater8]

If anyone is looking to make their life easier when racking to the keg, I can't recommend this product enough. It slides right over the autosiphon and still fits into a glass carboy. I don't cold crash at all and this did a great job keeping hop debris out of my keg.

https://utahbiodieselsupply.com/brewingfilters.php#autosiphon

 

[stickyfinger]

If anyone is looking to make their life easier when racking to the keg, I can't recommend this product enough. It slides right over the autosiphon and still fits into a glass carboy. I don't cold crash at all and this did a great job keeping hop debris out of my keg.

https://utahbiodieselsupply.com/brewingfilters.php#autosiphon

I also use one. It is slow but keeps the crud out and hasn't clogged yet. I've been using it to avoid cold-crashing. Fits into a 6.5G glass carboy too, but you need the narrower OD style autosiphon.

I'd recommend buying straight from Arbor Fabricating. I think they make a lot of the Utah Biodiesel products for them:
http://arborfab.com/

 

[anteater8]

I also have an update on my 1:1 Galaxy El Dorado NEIPA fermented with Imperial Juice. In my personal experience Galaxy has been overwhelming and El Dorado underwhelming, so I thought the two might pair well.

The aroma is heavy on mango, some pineapple and pretty dank. Flavor is very recognizably Galaxy with more dank earthiness, mango, stone fruit, some pine, undertones of pear and a candy like sweetness in the aftertaste. This has been kegged for 9 days and is still just a bit intense, which is leading me to believe that 6 oz Galaxy might be too much for almost any recipe. Overall I'm really digging it, although it does not make my top 5 hop combos.

 

[KrunkMasterKyle]

I also have an update on my 1:1 Galaxy El Dorado NEIPA fermented with Imperial Juice. In my personal experience Galaxy has been overwhelming and El Dorado underwhelming, so I thought the two might pair well.

The aroma is heavy on mango, some pineapple and pretty dank. Flavor is very recognizably Galaxy with more dank earthiness, mango, stone fruit, some pine, undertones of pear and a candy like sweetness in the aftertaste. This has been kegged for 9 days and is still just a bit intense, which is leading me to believe that 6 oz Galaxy might be too much for almost any recipe. Overall I'm really digging it, although it does not make my top 5 hop combos.

If you were to do this same hop combo again would you do something like .4:1 Galaxy/El Dorado? I find Galaxy really overpowers other hops. Looks good!

 

[jakturner]

Never fermented in a keg before. I only have 2.5gal keg tho. Need to understand the logistics. seems like a lot of material would xfer to your next keg right

I use the clear beer draught system with a screen over the pick up, no debris makes it to the keg. If you are nifty you can build your own floating dip (there is a DYI thread on this form). But many people trim or bend their dip tube up above the trub. Use a gray gas disconnect with tubing into a jar of starsan as a air lock. Pressurize the keg to seat the lid and put in the fridge to cold crash, then jump it to a new keg with 2 black disconnects. Next ipa I make I’m going to serve it straight from the fermentation keg to see if it make any difference.

 

[milldoggy]

For the most part no since the flavor significantly disappated in both.

Yes. force carb. The 1st pic is after 18hr in the keg.



Couldn't agree more. Why the darker keg version? These are frustrating...

I am seeing darkening in my kegs too. I force carb. I am wondering if it is the oxygen in the co2, as co2 is not pure

 

[Cavpilot2000]

I find Galaxy adds a bunch of dankness with the fruit. That's why I've moved to Azacca instead of Galaxy - no dankness at all (I'm not a fan of the dankness).

 

[Cavpilot2000]

I am seeing darkening in my kegs too. I force carb. I am wondering if it is the oxygen in the co2, as co2 is not pure

Yes, there is always O2 in your CO2.
Are you taking any other measures to reduce oxygen before and during hops introduction?

 

[anteater8]

If you were to do this same hop combo again would you do something like .4:1 Galaxy/El Dorado? I find Galaxy really overpowers other hops. Looks good!

Honestly I haven't been thrilled either time I've used El Dorado (it was 1:1:1 Citra Mosaic El Dorado last time), so I don't plan on buying any more once I run out. Regarding Galaxy though, I will probably start limiting it to one third or one quarter of the total hop bill. Its interesting because I've had several single hop Galaxy beers (Hill Farmstead, Great Notion) that are fantastic. I wonder what they are doing differently.

 

[stickyfinger]

Honestly I haven't been thrilled either time I've used El Dorado (it was 1:1:1 Citra Mosaic El Dorado last time), so I don't plan on buying any more once I run out. Regarding Galaxy though, I will probably start limiting it to one third or one quarter of the total hop bill. Its interesting because I've had several single hop Galaxy beers (Hill Farmstead, Great Notion) that are fantastic. I wonder what they are doing differently.

maybe they search out the best Galaxy hops for their beers, hops we don't have access to.

 

[Cavpilot2000]

NOt to stir up a **** storm, but Low-O2 methods are especially effective with NEIPAs

 

[orangehero]

NOt to stir up a poopy storm, but Low-O2 methods are especially effective with NEIPAs

Not to poop on your poop stir but what are Low-O2 methods and in what way are they effective regarding NEIPA's?

 

[Cavpilot2000]

Not to poop on your poop stir but what are Low-O2 methods and in what way are they effective regarding NEIPA's?

Low-O2 Brewing, also called LODO, is a bunch of practices aimed at significantly reducing dissolved oxygen in the beer.
Now, much of it is on the hot side and aimed at preserving volatile malt flavors, so while that is good for all wort, it isn’t specifically helpful to IPAs.
With IPA (and NEIPA), the most helpful steps are keeping a closed circuit fermentation, racking, and serving setup. This involves preferably only fermenting in Stainless Steel or glass, and thoroughly purging all racking tubing and your kegs.
Lastly, it involves transferring your beer to the final keg with a few gravity points left and sealing it to naturally carbonate in the keg (spunding). The reason for that is that the active yeast will consume any little bit of oxygen you may introduce in the transferring process, as well as minimizing exposure of your beer to the O2 that is inevitably mixed in your CO2 tank.
So if you are fermenting in a bucket and racking to a keg with a racking cane, you are exposing you beer to all kinds of oxygen. The large amount of hops in an NEIPA is EXTREMELY vulnerable to oxidation, which will darken the beer and quickly (within a matter of weeks or even a few days, depending on exposure) cause you to lose that bright, fresh hops aroma and flavor. That’s why so many people’s NEIPA turns to a brownish mess shortly after bottling.
LODO is controversial, and I am not trying to stir up that debate, but there is an undeniable link between oxygen exposure on the cold side and the loss of hops flavor/aroma and color change.

So, long story short, there are steps you can take, namely the cold-side procedures from LODO (Low-O2), that will preserve of extend the life of your NEIPA or any hoppy beer.

 

[popquizkid]

Low-O2 Brewing, also called LODO, is a bunch of practices aimed at significantly reducing dissolved oxygen in the beer.
Now, much of it is on the hot side and aimed at preserving volatile malt flavors, so while that is good for all wort, it isn’t specifically helpful to IPAs.
With IPA (and NEIPA), the most helpful steps are keeping a closed circuit fermentation, tacking, and serving setup. This involves preferably only fermenting in Stainless Steel or glass, and thoroughly purging all racking tubing and your kegs.
Lastly, it involves transferring your beer to the final keg with a few gravity points left and sealing it to naturally carbonate in the keg (spunding). The reason for that is that the active yeast will consume any little bit of oxygen you may introduce in the transferring process, as well as minimizing exposure of your beer to the O2 that is inevitably mixed in your CO2 tank.
So if you are fermenting in a bucket and racking to a keg with a racking cane, you are exposing you beer to all kinds of oxygen. The large amount of hops in an NEIPA is EXTREMELY vulnerable to oxidation, which will darken the beer and quickly (within a matter of weeks or even a few days, depending on exposure) cause you to lose that bright, fresh hops aroma and flavor. That’s why so many people’s NEIPA turns to a brownish mess shortly after bottling.
LODO is controversial, and I am not trying to stir up that debate, but there is an undeniable link between oxygen exposure on the cold side and the loss of hops flavor/aroma and color change.

So, long story short, there are steps you can take, namely the cold-side procedures from LODO (Low-O2), that will preserve of extend the life of your NEIPA or any hoppy beer.

Agree. I think some of the hot side measures help as well - but not going to go there in this thread The one thing I have not done with my NEIPAs is transfer off the yeast and spund with a few points remaining. 007 / 1318 rip through the wort pretty damn fast unlike a lager ferment. By the time krausen falls and I dry hop pretty sure it is at terminal gravity or very close. I don't have any easy way to check gravity during the ferment without opening it up an grabbing a sample so that makes it even more difficult.

This is what I have kind of settled on and I have not had a problem with oxidation at all. At this point A has become my preferred method but both have worked great.

A. Dry hop in primary after high krausen (day 2ish) and ramp temp. Closed transfer to key day 7-10 , crash and quick force carb

-or-
B. First dry hop in primary after high krausen. Day 7-10 add priming solution to fermenter, wait 30 minutes for the yeast to start working and close transfer to a keg with second dry hop charge. Keep room temp for a few days then move to kegerator. Crash and put on serving pressure. IMHO if you are dry hopping in a keg then priming helps quite a bit in two areas. Sometimes i have gotten diacetyl from keg hopping and priming / natural carb in keg seems to help here. Also add the hops to the beer at this point is exposing it to oxgyen in the hops and the active yeast from the priming solution will use the oxygen up.

 

[milldoggy]

Yes, there is always O2 in your CO2.
Are you taking any other measures to reduce oxygen before and during hops introduction?

No lodo methods on the hot side, but all c02 on cold side. Pressurized transfers, purged kegs, etc. Once fermenting, no 02 exposure. All dry hops on day 2-3. I have seen darkening on non neipas but way more apparent on neipas. I force carb and been debating on trying natural carb to see if it changes anything.

I also run a 27 ft 1/4 draft line and could be related to the perimibility of that.

 

[Cavpilot2000]

No lodo methods on the hot side, but all c02 on cold side. Pressurized transfers, purged kegs, etc. Once fermenting, no 02 exposure. All dry hops on day 2-3. I have seen darkening on non neipas but way more apparent on neipas. I force carb and been debating on trying natural carb to see if it changes anything.

I also run a 27 ft 1/4 draft line and could be related to the perimibility of that.

Sound pretty good from a procedural point of view, but yes, naturally carbing is the way to go (just take samples until you are about 3-4 points away from expected final gravity, rack to a keg and leave it sealed (no airlock). You really don't even need a spunding valve, as long as you don't leave too much more sugar than 3-4 points left.
For my current on tap NEIPA, I used the ClearBeer Draft system for the first time and I have to say I will never make one without it again.

If you're not familiar, it's basically a floating dip tube, so you aren't sucking up the yeast and hops residue from the bottom of the keg. Amazing! Especially if you keg dryhop.

 

[GnenieGone]

I use the clear beer draught system with a screen over the pick up, no debris makes it to the keg. If you are nifty you can build your own floating dip (there is a DYI thread on this form). But many people trim or bend their dip tube up above the trub. Use a gray gas disconnect with tubing into a jar of starsan as a air lock. Pressurize the keg to seat the lid and put in the fridge to cold crash, then jump it to a new keg with 2 black disconnects. Next ipa I make I’m going to serve it straight from the fermentation keg to see if it make any difference.

Gotcha! Thanks!

 

[jakturner]

Since we talkin LODO what do guys think about oxidation from starter wort? I usually make 1.5L starter the day before brewing, no stirplate just shaking a few times here and there, I pitch 1L in beer and save .5L for next starter. This is for 3.5 gallons.

 

[Cavpilot2000]

Since we talkin LODO what do guys think about oxidation from starter wort? I usually make 1.5L starter the day before brewing, no stirplate just shaking a few times here and there, I pitch 1L in beer and save .5L for next starter. This is for 3.5 gallons.

That shouldn't be an issue, because assuming the yeast are active in the starter, they are going to have consumed the oxygen in the starter wort by the time you pitch it, so there should be little to no DO in the starter juice.
Experiments have shown that active yeast can effectively eliminate DO in a matter of hours.