New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[beervoid]

I don't think its that unrealistic.. My last neipa I dry hopped with 10 ounces for a 5 gal batch. 6 pounds in a barrel is just slightly more oz/gal then mine. (mine is 2 oz/gal, that is 2.2 oz/gal)
It is a straight fruit bomb. Other homebrewers/craft beer drinkers think I put fruit in it. There may be a few outliers that lie (pun intended) about dry hopping, but there are some super dry hopped beers I've drank lately. Especially from local breweries.

That being said, it is overkill IMO and I will tone it down a bit next time, but it is delicious none the less

6 pounds per barrel is almost 16oz in 5 gallons.
10oz in 5 gallons is about 4 pounds per barrel, from my experiments this is absolute borderline where you dont really taste a difference.
Commercial brewers aren't throwing money and hops away I hope.

 

[Dgallo]

Specific reason not to add the Lactose at flameout? I’ve done that with my milkshake IPAs to (seemingly) no ill effects.

No in theory there’s no reason not to add it at flame out because it’s not like it’s going to floc out or be converted to anything else during fermentation so it should have the same effect as being added post fermentation. I just personally like to get through the main portion of active fermentation before I add it.

 

[isomerization]

No in theory there’s no reason not to add it at flame out because it’s not like it’s going to floc out or be converted to anything else during fermentation so it should have the same effect as being added post fermentation. I just personally like to get through the main portion of active fermentation before I add it.

I’ve always viewed it as “neutral” to Sacc yeast, but now I wonder if there would be a difference between the approaches. Lower O2 exposure and risk of contamination by adding during the boil was my logic.

 

[Dgallo]

I’ve always viewed it as “neutral” to Sacc yeast, but now I wonder if there would be a difference between the approaches. Lower O2 exposure and risk of contamination by adding during the boil was my logic.

I could be doing that for no good reason at all but to me the fermentation and the desired ester profile during active fermentation are far too important so I just want to ensure that happens

 

[NickC]

Long time lurker, first time poster here. First off, thank you braufessor and many, many, MANY others in this thread for your contributions. It’s helped me expedite my learning curve in attempting to perfect this style.

I think I along with many have ditched the must-do biotransformation dry hop (although this may still be occurring from the whirlpool hops), but I’m struggling on what is the perfect timing for the single dry hop bomb. On this batch, I’m doing 6 oz on day 5 (4 gal batch), but I’ve tried day 0, day 2, day 3, day 7...

Does anyone have a go-to dry hop day that consistently produces great aroma/juice? I’ve seen so many different opinions that claim they nailed the juice bomb, so does which day really matter? I know brau’s latest says day 2-3, but that didn’t work for me last time. Seemed like fermentation may have burned off too much aroma/flavor (just my theory).

I’m only about 10-12 batches in, but I’m also thinking the quality of hops is huge for this style and stale hops may have caused poor results in my past batches.

Other info:

BIAB 4 gal batches

Always ferment with 1318 at 64 day 0-1, 66 day 2-4, 68 thereafter.

1 tsp CaCl, 0.5 tsp Gypsum adds to mash

Using 4 oz in whirlpool

Using NEIPA hops - citra, galaxy, Ella, Vic secret, el dorado, Amarillo, Strata etc...

 

[isomerization]

@NickC you shouldn’t think in terms of days, that means nothing to the yeast. Instead, shoot for the tail end of fermentation. This will be strain/process dependent, so a universal Day 2 (or 4 or 6) option doesn’t really exist.

If you have the ability to cold crash under pressure/gas, then the variables change, FYI.

 

[Dgallo]

Long time lurker, first time poster here. First off, thank you braufessor and many, many, MANY others in this thread for your contributions. It’s helped me expedite my learning curve in attempting to perfect this style.

I think I along with many have ditched the must-do biotransformation dry hop (although this may still be occurring from the whirlpool hops), but I’m struggling on what is the perfect timing for the single dry hop bomb. On this batch, I’m doing 6 oz on day 5 (4 gal batch), but I’ve tried day 0, day 2, day 3, day 7...

Does anyone have a go-to dry hop day that consistently produces great aroma/juice? I’ve seen so many different opinions that claim they nailed the juice bomb, so does which day really matter? I know brau’s latest says day 2-3, but that didn’t work for me last time. Seemed like fermentation may have burned off too much aroma/flavor (just my theory).

I’m only about 10-12 batches in, but I’m also thinking the quality of hops is huge for this style and stale hops may have caused poor results in my past batches.

Other info:

BIAB 4 gal batches

Always ferment with 1318 at 64 day 0-1, 66 day 2-4, 68 thereafter.

1 tsp CaCl, 0.5 tsp Gypsum adds to mash

Using 4 oz in whirlpool

Using NEIPA hops - citra, galaxy, Ella, Vic secret, el dorado, Amarillo, Strata etc...

Check out this link. Very interesting evidence based info on hop oil extraction that shows almost all dryhop specific Oils are extracted in the first 24 hours and that leaving hops in For longer than 4 days can actual cause a diminished return effect. http://scottjanish.com/hops-understanding-blends-oil-testing/

 

[NickC]

@NickC you shouldn’t think in terms of days, that means nothing to the yeast. Instead, shoot for the tail end of fermentation. This will be strain/process dependent, so a universal Day 2 (or 4 or 6) option doesn’t really exist.

If you have the ability to cold crash under pressure/gas, then the variables change, FYI.

Thanks. Tail end meaning 2 points remaining or 10? I ferment in corny kegs, so I can cold crash under pressure. What’s that supposed to do?

 

[NickC]

Check out this link. Very interesting evidence based info on hop oil extraction that shows almost all dryhop specific Oils are extracted in the first 24 hours and that leaving hops in For longer than 4 days can actual cause a diminished return effect. http://scottjanish.com/hops-understanding-blends-oil-testing/
View attachment 617129
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Hmm... I’ll try to use this intel on my current batch. Wait for tail end of fermentation (as mentioned by isomerization above, and WeldWorks and others), add dry hop, allow a couple days to get to FG, then allow a couple days for diacetyl rest... Then jump to serving keg off the dry hop.

Is this close to your approach @Dgallo ? Anyone else?

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Check out this link. Very interesting evidence based info on hop oil extraction that shows almost all dryhop specific Oils are extracted in the first 24 hours and that leaving hops in For longer than 4 days can actual cause a diminished return effect.

I'd be bit cautious on that front - they're measuring the things that are easy to measure, which are the very smallest molecules. It seems that the bigger molecules take a bit longer to come out - anecdotally 48-72 hours seems to be needed to get the full flavour effect.

 

[pittbrewing]

6 pounds per barrel is almost 16oz in 5 gallons.
10oz in 5 gallons is about 4 pounds per barrel, from my experiments this is absolute borderline where you dont really taste a difference.
Commercial brewers aren't throwing money and hops away I hope.

I was under the impression a barrel is 43 gallons.. Is that not correct?

EDIT:
That being said, the previous batch of neipa I did had about 17-18 oz total with whirlpool (at 160-170) and dry hop

 

[beervoid]

I was under the impression a barrel is 43 gallons.. Is that not correct?

EDIT:
That being said, the previous batch of neipa I did had about 17-18 oz total with whirlpool (at 160-170) and dry hop

A barrel is 31 gallons and as far as I could find whirlpooling is not counted with dry hop additions but maybe some do, who knows

 

[Dgallo]

I'd be bit cautious on that front - they're measuring the things that are easy to measure, which are the very smallest molecules. It seems that the bigger molecules take a bit longer to come out - anecdotally 48-72 hours seems to be needed to get the full flavour effect.

No I agree. I do a 3 day to keg and a 2 day to keg. Only time I’ll do one day out is it it’s cryo and it’s seems to be sufficient for cryo

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I was under the impression a barrel is 43 gallons.. Is that not correct?

It depends - an imperial barrel is 36 imperial gallons = 43 US gallons = 164 litres.
A US beer barrel is 26 imperial gallons = 31 US gallons = 117 litres.

You have no idea of how confusing it is for us in the UK when we see people using "gallons" without qualification! Just use grams per litre, at least it's easy to do the maths then... (but don't you dare sell us beer in anything other than (20oz) pints!)

 

[couchsending]

when quoting amount of dry hops per barrel it's based of a 31g BBL

 

[Dgallo]

Hmm... I’ll try to use this intel on my current batch. Wait for tail end of fermentation (as mentioned by isomerization above, and WeldWorks and others), add dry hop, allow a couple days to get to FG, then allow a couple days for diacetyl rest... Then jump to serving keg off the dry hop.

Is this close to your approach @Dgallo ? Anyone else?

I now dryhop under pressure to eliminate oxygen after I softcrash to drop the yeast out of suspension. oI will dryhop with 3 days until I keg and then again with 2 days left to kegging.

 

[wepeeler]

6 pounds per barrel is almost 16oz in 5 gallons.
10oz in 5 gallons is about 4 pounds per barrel, from my experiments this is absolute borderline where you dont really taste a difference.
Commercial brewers aren't throwing money and hops away I hope.

But doesn't hop utilization go way up with bigger volumes? I shared my latest neipa with a local brewery and when I told him I used nearly 2 pounds of hops for 11 gallons he almost choked on his beer. He said he uses about 3 pounds for 30 gallons. And his beer is JUICY.

Side note - my neipa was waaay too bitter for me, but everyone who has tried it loved it. People are asking to buy it from me. Funny because Beersmith predicted the same IBUs for this 11 gallon batch as my 5.5 gallon batches. I think it was overkill. It was also my 1st 11 gallon batch, after doing only 5.5 gallon batches. Definitely going to have to brew this a few more times and lower the amount of hops.

 

[NickC]

I now dryhop under pressure to eliminate oxygen after I softcrash to drop the yeast out of suspension. oI will dryhop with 3 days until I keg and then again with 2 days left to kegging.

Interesting. What are you doing with your temps for softcrash and after?

For the batches I dry hop late, I try not to purge the CO2 created in the last few days to try and keep aromas contained. Do you consider that dry hopping under pressure? Never crashed before that dry hop tho...

 

[Dgallo]

Interesting. What are you doing with your temps for softcrash and after?

For the batches I dry hop late, I try not to purge the CO2 created in the last few days to try and keep aromas contained. Do you consider that dry hopping under pressure? Never crashed before that dry hop tho...

Soft crashing right around 50 will drop the yeast out of suspension before the dryhop so that they don’t strip some of the dryhop oils when the floc out later. I’ll then let it warm back up to 65-70 before I throw them in.

I don’t know what youre fermenting in but unless you have a spunding valve or completely closing the fermenter with some points left, airlocks only hold back 1psi or less. This is not enough pressure to keep the surface tension to keep the aroma fully in. It will however be good practice to minimize oxidation

 

[NickC]

Soft crashing right around 50 will drop the yeast out of suspension before the dryhop so that they don’t strip some of the dryhop oils when the floc out later. I’ll then let it warm back up to 65-70 before I throw them in.

I don’t know what youre fermenting in but unless you have a spunding valve or completely closing the fermenter with some points left, airlocks only hold back 1psi or less. This is not enough pressure to keep the surface tension to keep the aroma fully in. It will however be good practice to minimize oxidation

So are you at FG before you do that crash?

I ferment in a corny and leave it completely closed with a few points left on the final dry hop to scrub out any oxygen pickup there. If you’re not crashing until FG, I don’t know if I could do that with my setup without introducing oxygen. Although I still have not experience oxidation in any of my batches... and some have been scarily exposed along the way.

 

[murphyslaw]

I've seen enough research that says you dont get much benefit after 24 hrs of dry hoping to believe it. But practically speaking, I dont see what value that information has. If I wait until 1 or 2 days before kegging to dry hop, I lose out on the o2 scavenging that I'd get doing it early on.

 

[Hannabrew]

There's a balance between o2 scavenging and CO2 scrubbing though.

 

[ryanm8]

I have good results with dry hopping 4 days before racking.

 

[SRJHops]

Soft crashing right around 50 will drop the yeast out of suspension before the dryhop so that they don’t strip some of the dryhop oils when the floc out later. I’ll then let it warm back up to 65-70 before I throw them in.

I don’t know what youre fermenting in but unless you have a spunding valve or completely closing the fermenter with some points left, airlocks only hold back 1psi or less. This is not enough pressure to keep the surface tension to keep the aroma fully in. It will however be good npractice to minimize oxidation

I dig this advice - thank you. I had been soft crashing, then adding the dryhops 3 days before bottling, but now will warm the beer back up first. Makes so much sense!

I know you shared it before, but could you share your ferm temps and lengths? How many days do you cold crash?

My total ferm time is 2 weeks, so thinking of soft crashing around day 9 or so, then warm back up to 70 or so on day 12 and adding the dryhops. (Not willing to check the gravity due to O2, but day 9 seems safe after a week.)

 

[Dgallo]

So are you at FG before you do that crash?

Absolutely. I am hitting fg and then holding the beer at 70-72* for 2-3 days so it will clean up any acetaldehyde or VDK. Then I’ll crash.

I know you shared it before, but could you share your ferm temps and lengths? How many days do you cold crash?

I use Imperial A24 - Dryhop. It is a yeast blend of their Barbarian strain which I’d their version of Conan and their citrus strain which is a wild sacc strain that throw a big orange and citrus esters and can tolerate temps in the low 80s. This is by far my favorite ester producing yeast, big peach & apricot with a lot of citrus which really benefits a NEIPA. I will do a 1L starter the night before. I pitch the whole starter volume when my wort cools to 66-68. For the first 2 days of fermentation I’m at 70-72. Day 3 & 4 during the most vigorous fermentation I am at 74-76. Then I let is naturally drop back to 70-72 for the remained of fermentation and clean up. Typically hit fg at day 5-6. Then I’ll hold it to clean up until day 9-10. Soft cash for 24-36 hours at 50 under pressure to drop yeast. Warm back up above 65 and dryhop under pressure. Then coldcrash and rack to a keg.

 

[MildAvers]

Typically hit fg at day 5-6.... Warm back up above 65 and dryhop under pressure.

Can you explain how you dry hop under pressure when you're at FG?

 

[Dgallo]

Can you explain how you dry hop under pressure when you're at FG?

I have a fermonster and it can handle 4 psi with out any ill effects. I will purge headspace with co2. Throw in the hops. Re purge with co2 and connect the co2 line to the fermenter maintain that pressure

Not the best solution right now but it is working. I will be making or buying the correct lid which looks like this

 

[VirginiaHops1]

I ferment in a corny and leave it completely closed with a few points left on the final dry hop to scrub out any oxygen pickup there. If you’re not crashing until FG, I don’t know if I could do that with my setup without introducing oxygen. Although I still have not experience oxidation in any of my batches... and some have been scarily exposed along the way.

I also ferment in kegs and have also had good success dry hopping after FG and crashing. When you open the corny top to add dry hops(or ideally right before you open it) blast CO2 into the gas post of the keg. When you open the corny top you'll have positive pressure where the air is being pushed out, thereby not allowing oxygen in. Don't turn the gas off until you've closed the keg back up. This may not reduce oxygen exposure 100% but should do a pretty good job and is the way a lot of commercial breweries add dry hops who don't have the fancy hop cannon contraptions.

 

[leesmith]

I have a fermonster and it can handle 4 psi with out any ill effects. I will purge headspace with co2. Throw in the hops. Re purge with co2 and connect the co2 line to the fermenter maintain that pressureView attachment 617228
Not the best solution right now but it is working. I will be making or buying the correct lid which looks like this View attachment 617229

These are nice to get. Along with a 1/4” weldless set up which they also sell. Then you can put a gas post on and you can use a quick disconnect.

https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/npt14tokegpost.htm

 

[marchuk96]

I have a fermonster and it can handle 4 psi with out any ill effects. I will purge headspace with co2. Throw in the hops. Re purge with co2 and connect the co2 line to the fermenter maintain that pressureView attachment 617228
Not the best solution right now but it is working. I will be making or buying the correct lid which looks like this View attachment 617229

I have been doing the same thing...have to keep an eye on it cause it can blow the bung out which happened to me twice yesterday...not ideal...but good for now till the lid also

 

[marchuk96]

I have good results with dry hopping 4 days before racking.

So my last beer...just kegged a little while ago...I used only a total of 8 ounces of hops...and only one hop(zappa)which is 4 ounces less than my normal ipas get...i had 1 ounce in boil...4 ounces in whirlpool and 3 ounces dry hop...I dry hopped starting sunday night at midnight and then started cold crash yesterday at 3 pm....so like a 40 hr dry hop...I can say that I can't tell I used less hops and the aroma and flavor are fantastic...grain to glass in 12 days

 

[Loud Brewing]

@Dgallo thanks for the comprehensive breakdown of your process. I have been dry hopping at day 3-4 and cold crashing using mylar bag before transfer, but now I will hop under pressure and be using the c02 bottle during final crash to avoid suck back.
Here is what I used on my fermonster, it includes the complete ball lock post with nut and short dip tube, got it from William's
https://www.williamsbrewing.com/Gas-Ball-Lock-With-Threaded-Post-P4508.aspx
I then used a 1/2" spade bit and 2 flat gaskets https://www.morebeer.com/products/tailpiece-gasket.html and the seal is great. I tested it at 20 psi with no leaks. I also use a modified floating dip tube (cut slits in uptake) during transfer which avoids trub.

 

[marchuk96]

@Dgallo thanks for the comprehensive breakdown of your process. I have been dry hopping at day 3-4 and cold crashing using mylar bag before transfer, but now I will hop under pressure and using the c02 bottle during final crash to avoid suck back.
Here is what I used on my fermonster, it includes the complete ball lock post with nut and short dip tube, got it from William's
https://www.williamsbrewing.com/Gas-Ball-Lock-With-Threaded-Post-P4508.aspx
I then used a 1/2" spade bit and 2 flat gaskets https://www.morebeer.com/products/tailpiece-gasket.html and the seal is great. I tested it at 20 psi with no leaks. I also use a modified floating dip tube during transfer which works great.
View attachment 617245

So want it!!!!

 

[Hannabrew]

@Dgallo thanks for the comprehensive breakdown of your process. I have been dry hopping at day 3-4 and cold crashing using mylar bag before transfer, but now I will hop under pressure and using the c02 bottle during final crash to avoid suck back.
Here is what I used on my fermonster, it includes the complete ball lock post with nut and short dip tube, got it from William's
https://www.williamsbrewing.com/Gas-Ball-Lock-With-Threaded-Post-P4508.aspx
I then used a 1/2" spade bit and 2 flat gaskets https://www.morebeer.com/products/tailpiece-gasket.html and the seal is great. I tested it at 20 psi with no leaks. I also use a modified floating dip tube during transfer which works great.
View attachment 617245

You tested at 20psi and everything held up? I have a very similar setup (except use a spigot for liquid out) and am always concerned about the lid breaking at that pressure or worse the fermenter itself cracking. I've tested up to 10 temporarily successfully but I'm to chicken to go higher

 

[Loud Brewing]

You tested at 20psi and everything held up? I have a very similar setup (except use a spigot for liquid out) and am always concerned about the lid breaking at that pressure or worse the fermenter itself cracking. I've tested up to 10 temporarily successfully but I'm to chicken to go higher

I also have spigots on all of my fermonsters. I did a water test and it held at 20psi but began squirting out of the spigot seal/oring at 25psi. I usually only need a few psi to initiate siphon, I just wanted to see what it could handle. You would be surprised what pressures PET bottles can take without bursting, they will take 40 psi easily when I'm force carbing using a carb cap.
And like I mentioned above, if using a floating dip tube to transfer you have to cut slits in the aluminum uptake part to keep it from getting stuck to the inside of the fermenter walls.

 

[Loud Brewing]

So want it!!!!

Yeah I'm amazed that there is no turnkey solution for a fermonster pressure kit similar to the fermzilla. Easy enough to make it, but it would sell well if someone made a complete kit.

 

[ba-brewer]

So my last beer...just kegged a little while ago...I used only a total of 8 ounces of hops...and only one hop(zappa)which is 4 ounces less than my normal ipas get...i had 1 ounce in boil...4 ounces in whirlpool and 3 ounces dry hop...I dry hopped starting sunday night at midnight and then started cold crash yesterday at 3 pm....so like a 40 hr dry hop...I can say that I can't tell I used less hops and the aroma and flavor are fantastic...grain to glass in 12 days

Have you used that hop before?

The descriptions seem like they should good in a NEIPA. I tried it in a golden ale to get a feel for the flavor, I did not get any fruity pebbles. The aroma is more dank with a diesel like smell. I have in my notes that there a bit of funk too.

I also bought some experimental 6297 and that one did have a candy grape flavor. Either the listed AA was wrong or the candy flavor made the beer seem sweet.

Have another golden fermenting now with the two together to see how they pair.

 

[don_bran321]

@Dgallo thanks for the comprehensive breakdown of your process. I have been dry hopping at day 3-4 and cold crashing using mylar bag before transfer, but now I will hop under pressure and be using the c02 bottle during final crash to avoid suck back.
Here is what I used on my fermonster, it includes the complete ball lock post with nut and short dip tube, got it from William's
https://www.williamsbrewing.com/Gas-Ball-Lock-With-Threaded-Post-P4508.aspx
I then used a 1/2" spade bit and 2 flat gaskets https://www.morebeer.com/products/tailpiece-gasket.html and the seal is great. I tested it at 20 psi with no leaks. I also use a modified floating dip tube (cut slits in uptake) during transfer which avoids trub.
View attachment 617245

This. Is. F***ing genious! You guys come up with the best ideas. Nice work dude

 

[Hannabrew]

I also have spigots on all of my fermonsters. I did a water test and it held at 20psi but began squirting out of the spigot seal/oring at 25psi. I usually only need a few psi to initiate siphon, I just wanted to see what it could handle. You would be surprised what pressures PET bottles can take without bursting, they will take 40 psi easily when I'm force carbing using a carb cap.
And like I mentioned above, if using a floating dip tube to transfer you have to cut slits in the aluminum uptake part to keep it from getting stuck to the inside of the fermenter walls.

What do you mean by cutting slits? I cut a slit in the tubing toward the end where the diptube is

 

[Loud Brewing]

I just cut both sides of the aluminum pickup tube with the grinder twice to allow better flow. The tube wants to stick to the fermenter wall when under pressure if not.