New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[dg2001]

Has anyone use Vic Secret hops in this style beer? If so how did you use them and how did it turn out?

 

[stickyfinger]

Has anyone use Vic Secret hops in this style beer? If so how did you use them and how did it turn out?

I used it in the dryhop of a beer based on Sloop Juice Bomb. I had 5.5-6 gals and dry hopped with 1 oz Eureka!, 1 oz Denali, 3 oz Citra and 3 oz Vic Secret. The Vic Secret added to the general fruit potpourri. It also had some very nice dankness, but that was from the Eureka! most likely. I'd definitely use it along with other hops again.

 

[VT_jlee]

Has anyone use Vic Secret hops in this style beer? If so how did you use them and how did it turn out?

I made one over the summer with Vic Secret/Galaxy/Ella. Hopping schedule:

1oz each @ FO
1oz each @ 170F
1oz each @ 2 days into fermentation
1oz each @ keg

I liked it a lot, but missed the mosaic. If I did it again I'd swap out the Ella for mosaic.

 

[JohnK93]

I always leave my hops in the keg until it kicks, so you'll be fine.

I decided to transfer to a second keg, not because I didn't agree with you, but because I've never used the closed-keg transfer method and I just wanted to try it for fun. This is home brewing, after all!

 

[Pratty]

Makin a NEIPA recipe from Kals design on electric brewery, its in metric

 

[tld6008]

Makin a NEIPA recipe from Kals design on electric brewery, its in metric View attachment 553538

Need more hops

 

[Pratty]

^ more hops when? Dry hops or WP

 

[pshankstar]

Right now I’m planning on using 2oz of each Citra, Amarillo & Belma for FO, first DH & second DH. I’m debating on scaling it back to 1oz of each and add either Mosaic or Simcoe to the mix. So it would be four different hops instead of three.

What are some people’s thoughts on this? I know it’s all personal preference but I do see some great NE IPAs from breweries that use four different hops and some use three. I’m torn. The tough decisions for a home brewer. Haha

 

[dg2001]

^ more hops when? Dry hops or WP

At a minimum you need 140g between flame out and whirlpool and another 140g in dry hop.

 

[Pratty]

Really? For a 5% beer im at 3g/L for WP and 6g/L for DH. If it was 6 or 7% Id be going for more, much more.

I will brew this and see if the final beer needs some more in the range your suggesting.

 

[dg2001]

Really? For a 5% beer im at 3g/L for WP and 6g/L for DH. If it was 6 or 7% Id be going for more, much more.

I will brew this and see if the final beer needs some more in the range your suggesting.

This is home brewing, make it how you want. My last has 8.4 g/L whirlpool and 9.8 g/L dry hop in a 6% beer, OG 1.059, FG 1.014. Turned out wonderful. Cheers

 

[tld6008]

^ more hops when? Dry hops or WP

For 5 gal NEIPA I use 6 oz in whirlpool @170 F then 6 oz DH on day 3 of fermentation. Beer is around 6 % ABV

 

[aaronm13]

<off topic>
Yep, pretty much follow the CSI recipe, decoct the mash twice, add in the D-180 3 times, and age for a long time. Hardest part is aging it that long AND not drinking it all as fast as you can. Great recipe, fantastic beer! Waiting for it to get out of the 20's to brew, because I cannot get my decoction temps right when it is this cold!
</off topic>

Instead of upping the grain bill, I usually just add corn sugar to increase ABV. This way it doesn't affect the malt flavor in respect to the hops. Cheers!

Brewed CSI's version last weekend and just transferred to secondary today. Everything went perfectly with numbers hitting the magic 1.012. Smell is incredible and hydro samples taste great too. Going to be real tough not touching this. Won't bottle for another 2 months. Going to Belgium in 3 weeks for the Bruges beer festival so will be bringing the real one back with me. Had the last of my supply last night. Will have to brew lots more of Braufessor,s amazing recipe. Second batch is half gone now. Think if I had to choose I think I'd prefer the Citra, Mosaic and Galaxy hop combinations.

 

[tld6008]

Thought this might be interesting to many of you brewers

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/hop-calculations-wayyy-off-why-help.642896/#post-8185110

I screwed up the link I wanted to actually point to post #15 in this thread, give it another try!

 

[ryanm8]

I have brewed quite a few NEIPA's, but this is the first time I've done this recipe. I pretty much followed Braufessor's recipe exactly, except I came up short on my target gravity at 1.050 (still working on efficiency issues). I also substituted Warrior for Columbus.

I did the dry hop of Mosaic/Citra/Galaxy all on the 2nd day. I bottled at day 10. FG was 1.012. I cracked one open 4 days after bottling (14 days grain to glass) and it was fantastic. Probably my best NEIPA to date. Thanks for the recipe!

 

[brew703]

I brewed up a batch on 12/26. Added all DH on day three of fermentation and kegged on day 12.
I hit with CO2 at 30 PSI for 30 hrs, purged and reduced to 12 PSI.

It's ready but the issue I am having is I find it has a oniony taste. Used the same hops as in post 1418. I honestly don't brew a lot with Citra as I think I'm one of the few who feels it's too potent. Could the Citra be imparting this flavor? Or could it be something else?

This is the first time brewing this style in over a year. I stick mainly to APA's, blondes and a recent Saison. With the APA's I haven't noticed any oniony flavors.

Just curious what you guys think.

I wanted to add that I had my wife sample it and she commented about it be oniony. Funny thing is we both tried a NEIPA from a local brewery and my wife made the same comment. I don't remember the hops he used but I do recall that Citra and I think EL DOrado were included.

 

[tld6008]

I brewed up a batch on 12/26. Added all DH on day three of fermentation and kegged on day 12.
I hit with CO2 at 30 PSI for 30 hrs, purged and reduced to 12 PSI.

It's ready but the issue I am having is I find it has a oniony taste. Used the same hops as in post 1418. I honestly don't brew a lot with Citra as I think I'm one of the few who feels it's too potent. Could the Citra be imparting this flavor? Or could it be something else?

This is the first time brewing this style in over a year. I stick mainly to APA's, blondes and a recent Saison. With the APA's I haven't noticed any oniony flavors.

Just curious what you guys think.

I wanted to add that I had my wife sample it and she commented about it be oniony. Funny thing is we both tried a NEIPA from a local brewery and my wife made the same comment. I don't remember the hops he used but I do recall that Citra and I think EL DOrado were included.

Could the age of your hops been the issue?
I have never noticed any onion flavors in this recipe although I have never noticed oniony flavors in any beers I have brewed.

 

[ba-brewer]

My homegrown Columbus have a bit of onion smell and flavor, was thinking I was doing something wrong, but I seen a video where they made a comment about fresh hops with a high alpha can come across as oniony.

 

[dg2001]

I brewed up a batch on 12/26. Added all DH on day three of fermentation and kegged on day 12.
I hit with CO2 at 30 PSI for 30 hrs, purged and reduced to 12 PSI.

It's ready but the issue I am having is I find it has a oniony taste. Used the same hops as in post 1418. I honestly don't brew a lot with Citra as I think I'm one of the few who feels it's too potent. Could the Citra be imparting this flavor? Or could it be something else?

This is the first time brewing this style in over a year. I stick mainly to APA's, blondes and a recent Saison. With the APA's I haven't noticed any oniony flavors.

Just curious what you guys think.

I wanted to add that I had my wife sample it and she commented about it be oniony. Funny thing is we both tried a NEIPA from a local brewery and my wife made the same comment. I don't remember the hops he used but I do recall that Citra and I think EL DOrado were included.

The only hop that has an onion aroma/taste to me is Summit. I have totally stoped using it for that reason.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

It's ready but the issue I am having is I find it has a oniony taste. Used the same hops as in post 1418. I honestly don't brew a lot with Citra as I think I'm one of the few who feels it's too potent. Could the Citra be imparting this flavor?

In the early days of Citra it was not unusual to get oniony batches, it seemed to be something to do with when they were harvested - then as the farms got more experience they worked out when to harvest them and it became less of a problem. Sounds like you've got a batch that were harvested at the wrong time. Where did they come from and what vintage are they?

CTZ is another one that can get oniony, although Summit is the classic one for that.

 

[brew703]

All hops were from 2016 and were vac sealed and stored in the freezer. I always smell my hops before using and I didn't notice any off flavors. I know that's not a tell tail completely but basically none smelled like cat piss.

And as mentioned the NEIPA I had at the brewery had a similar taste and aroma and we both used Citra so that leads me to think maybe that's where the oniony flavor is coming from.

Kinda frustrating as it's very noticeable- almost to the point where I don't want to drink it. I'm hoping the flavor starts to mellow some in the next week or so.

 

[brew703]

The only hop that has an onion aroma/taste to me is Summit. I have totally stoped using it for that reason.

Yep- used it once and had to dump the batch. Luckily it was only 2 gallons so no big loss.

 

[ryanm8]

I have not detected any onion flavors any time I've used Citra.

 

[sjfischr]

All hops were from 2016 and were vac sealed and stored in the freezer. I always smell my hops before using and I didn't notice any off flavors. I know that's not a tell tail completely but basically none smelled like cat piss.

Let’s also consider that it may have nothing to do with the hops at all. Could water treatment have introduced too much sulfuric flavors in the brewing water? Did you do anything different there?

The only other thing I can think of with the hops is perhaps if they were in the freezer that they took on an off flavor, but somehow went undetected due to the low temperature?

 

[kyleetrotter]

I think it was Shaun Hill that said Citra has been really hit or miss lately. Breweries w good contracts get to go to the hop farms and pick the crop they want and homebrewers are seemingly left with what the breweries don't want. At least that was my takeaway from his comment.

I had the single hop "El Dorado Single Hop IPA" from Other Half when it was first released and I got a green onion/green pepper flavor from it and absolutely loved it. I've been waiting to get that flavor from an IPA again and I haven't. Maybe I'll have to bitter with some Summit on my next NEIPA.

 

[brew703]

Let’s also consider that it may have nothing to do with the hops at all. Could water treatment have introduced too much sulfuric flavors in the brewing water? Did you do anything different there?

The only other thing I can think of with the hops is perhaps if they were in the freezer that they took on an off flavor, but somehow went undetected due to the low temperature?

I use RO water and treated as Braufessor states in his recipe. At this point, anything is possible. Could low or high PH be the cause? Mash PH was 5.3. Didn't check it again. I usually aim for a mash ph of 5.3-5.35 so I was in line with my other brews.
it's just off that the NEIPA I had at the brewery had the same oniony taste. That's the only reason why I suggested it could be from the Citra since we both used it.

 

[Braufessor]

I think you can get "onion/garlic" from a variety of hops depending on their quality. Summit definitely ends up being the poster child for onion and garlic - but if you get good summit, that is not what it tastes like. I just brewed a couple amber ales that I used summit in -it can be a nice hop.

I think if you get some mediocre citra/mosaic - i could see you getting some of that. I have tasted it in commercial beers that used those types of hops - so it can definitely happen.

I think it is unlikely it is your water or pH..... especially if you followed the suggestions and it sounds like you also measured your pH.... all of that should be right in the correct range.

Maybe it will mellow out a bit as it ages. (How long did everything sit in fermenter...... dry hop on day 2-3 and let it sit till day 10-12 range??) (Keep the temp in the 66-72 range the entire time??)

If it got to the point that you were not going to drink it, you might try hooking a liquid disconnect to your CO2 and gently (1-3 psi) bubbling some CO2 up through the bottom of the keg via the dip tube and see if you could scrub some of that aroma flavor out with CO2. Probably a last resort kind of thing and it could make some mess with foaming out of the pressure release, so do it in a tub.

A couple years ago, I had some horrible problems with several czech pilsners I brewed..... I drove myself crazy trying to figure out what I was doing wrong. In the end, I narrowed it down to what must have been some bad Saaz hops. Ruined 5-6 batches before I just threw out 2 pounds of Saaz I was using.

**Also, often, I think bad or mediocre hops can smell ok in the bag. I notice them once they are added to the boil (too late)..... and they smell really vegetal. I say this, because I just brewed a pilsner where I added some Spalt that "smelled good" even though they were old (vacuum sealed), but when they hit the boil, it smelled like wet grass. I am currently crossing my fingers that I didn't just ruin my latest pilsner using them

 

[pshankstar]

What do you all do with the first dry hops? Do you keep them in the fermenter till packaging or do you remove them when you toss in the second dry hops? This is assuming you bag the dry hops and not toss them on freely.

Thanks in advance everyone!

 

[brew703]

I think you can get "onion/garlic" from a variety of hops depending on their quality. Summit definitely ends up being the poster child for onion and garlic - but if you get good summit, that is not what it tastes like. I just brewed a couple amber ales that I used summit in -it can be a nice hop.

I think if you get some mediocre citra/mosaic - i could see you getting some of that. I have tasted it in commercial beers that used those types of hops - so it can definitely happen.

I think it is unlikely it is your water or pH..... especially if you followed the suggestions and it sounds like you also measured your pH.... all of that should be right in the correct range.

Maybe it will mellow out a bit as it ages. (How long did everything sit in fermenter...... dry hop on day 2-3 and let it sit till day 10-12 range??) (Keep the temp in the 66-72 range the entire time??)

If it got to the point that you were not going to drink it, you might try hooking a liquid disconnect to your CO2 and gently (1-3 psi) bubbling some CO2 up through the bottom of the keg via the dip tube and see if you could scrub some of that aroma flavor out with CO2. Probably a last resort kind of thing and it could make some mess with foaming out of the pressure release, so do it in a tub.

A couple years ago, I had some horrible problems with several czech pilsners I brewed..... I drove myself crazy trying to figure out what I was doing wrong. In the end, I narrowed it down to what must have been some bad Saaz hops. Ruined 5-6 batches before I just threw out 2 pounds of Saaz I was using.

**Also, often, I think bad or mediocre hops can smell ok in the bag. I notice them once they are added to the boil (too late)..... and they smell really vegetal. I say this, because I just brewed a pilsner where I added some Spalt that "smelled good" even though they were old (vacuum sealed), but when they hit the boil, it smelled like wet grass. I am currently crossing my fingers that I didn't just ruin my latest pilsner using them

Thanks for the reply Braufessor and to the others.

I added all DH additions at day three of fermentation. These hops sat for 7 days, then cold crashed for two days before racking to keg and hitting with co2.
As for temp range, stayed mainly around 65 for most. the last two days I increased temps to 68 where it finished before cold crashing.

As for the hops, most of my stock is from 2016. All have been vac sealed and stored in the freezer. The citra hops were from 2015. I used them in the past with no noticeable issues but it's been 6-12 months since I used any Citra. I suppose those hops could have went bad during that time frame.
I only have a few ounces of citra left from this batch so I'll play it safe and ditch what I have left. I do have a half pound from 2017 I recently received.
The mosaic is from 2016 as is the Galaxy.

I may take your advice and hook up the co2 to the liquid post and see if that helps. I'll let it ride until the weekend and try it then.

It's just odd that the brewery I visited had the same taste. I didn't mention it to the owner at the time but my wife took one sip and made the oniony comment. Then the next week I brewed this batch and low and behold same issue.

I may email the brewery and see what they say. Maybe they will respond with some insight.

 

[Braufessor]

Thanks for the reply Braufessor and to the others.

I added all DH additions at day three of fermentation. These hops sat for 7 days, then cold crashed for two days before racking to keg and hitting with co2.
As for temp range, stayed mainly around 65 for most. the last two days I increased temps to 68 where it finished before cold crashing.

As for the hops, most of my stock is from 2016. All have been vac sealed and stored in the freezer. The citra hops were from 2015. I used them in the past with no noticeable issues but it's been 6-12 months since I used any Citra. I suppose those hops could have went bad during that time frame.
I only have a few ounces of citra left from this batch so I'll play it safe and ditch what I have left. I do have a half pound from 2017 I recently received.
The mosaic is from 2016 as is the Galaxy.

I may take your advice and hook up the co2 to the liquid post and see if that helps. I'll let it ride until the weekend and try it then.

It's just odd that the brewery I visited had the same taste. I didn't mention it to the owner at the time but my wife took one sip and made the oniony comment. Then the next week I brewed this batch and low and behold same issue.

I may email the brewery and see what they say. Maybe they will respond with some insight.

Another possibility is just your perception..... some people just perceive a hop one way and others perceive it differently. Or, I have had instances where I was under the weather for a time and beer I would normally like just did not taste right/good to me for a while - even after I felt better.

Seems that process-wise, everything you did is pretty much on point. Personally, I like to go a little longer and I don't cold crash..... Sometimes I just feel a little more time and keeping temps up allows the yeast to clean everything up better. However, what you did is pretty much perfectly normal for lots of people. So, I would hesitate to say any of that would be a problem.

Most likely scenario is that the hops simply were not at their best. I brew this beer and similar so often that I blow through hops pretty fast. I will go through a pound of citra per month almost, and, I keep all my hops in vacuum packed glass jars in the freezer - but even doing that, I have to throw hops out from time to time because they have sat there too long. I think once hops are open, they are going to go down hill whether they are vacuum packed or not.