New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[centrical]

Is hop burn mostly coming from cryo-hops?

no. I have gotten it from cryhops, but also pellets.

 

[jakturner]

Is hop burn mostly coming from cryo-hops?

I just did 2 side by side batches, the one with a single dry hop of pellets had the burn (us-04), the second batch had 2 dry hops, one was pellets one was cryohops in the keg (F1 Conan hybrid) it was super smooth from day one. Different hops and yeast, so too many variables to make any assumptions. In my limit experience I never have got the burn from cryo hops, but then again I always use them as a smaller addition with mostly pellets.

 

[pearljam1984]

They may not call it a NEIPA. But it definitely is. Looked at Pinthouse Facebook page and why they have pictures from in 2015 is not the same beer as today. This is the style to a T. Based on untapped what was and what is now, has changed.

 

[arnobg]

Here's my second version. Enjoying this more than the first which I used the OP's original recipe.

Citra/Mosaic/Simcoe with just slight changes to the grain bill. 1318 for the yeast and 100 sulfate 150 chloride.

View attachment IMG_2877.jpg

View attachment IMG_2878.jpg

 

[Hannabrew]

Looks nice. I just rebrewed #1418 and a couple of comments.

1) It seems to lack bitterness. I know that's the style but it almost lacks any bite at all. Braufessor, what do you have the IBUs at? I add .85 warrior and and it comes out to about 45 IBUs.

2) The color seems to be in between orange juicy and that next level of hop juice. Compared to some of the commercial beers I've measured it against it doesn't have the appearance that I would like.

I think I hit the recipe on point and I use mostly LoDo processes...Any thoughts on color/bitterness Braufessor?

 

[Braufessor]

Looks nice. I just rebrewed #1418 and a couple of comments.

1) It seems to lack bitterness. I know that's the style but it almost lacks any bite at all. Braufessor, what do you have the IBUs at? I add .85 warrior and and it comes out to about 45 IBUs.

2) The color seems to be in between orange juicy and that next level of hop juice. Compared to some of the commercial beers I've measured it against it doesn't have the appearance that I would like.

I think I hit the recipe on point and I use mostly LoDo processes...Any thoughts on color/bitterness Braufessor?

I want to say my calculated bitterness usually comes in somewhere in the mid to upper 30's. That does not calculate anything from flameout/dry hops.... only the bittering addition. I would not consider mine "bitter" at all. My Pilsner has more bitterness than this beer. I would just push up that 60 minute addition a bit at a time till it his your preference. Worth noting that mine is on a beer coming in between 1.055-1.060, so bitterness can be relative to gravity.

Honestly, as far as color, put the right light on something and you can get about 10 shades of color. I have taken pictures of the exact same beer 1 minute apart, under different conditions, and one looks yellow/gold and the other looks Deep Orange..... same beer, different light. Ultimately, if you don't like the color of your beer, the simplest solution is to take a picture of it under different light. Mine comes in at a calculated 5 SRM or so - it is definitely on the light side. I prefer it to be toward the pale side for sure.
I would say the color in your picture looks similar to mine

 

[Kosova]

I'm using one of these attached to the spigot of my fermenter to the out post on my keg to do a closed transfer, filters down to 100 micron (they have more sizes if you want). Got it for about $20 - $25 from vacmotion.com

Do you use a pump with this filter or is gravity enough to transfer with all the hop matter clogging the pump with time?

 

[Brew_G]

Here's my second version. Enjoying this more than the first which I used the OP's original recipe.

Citra/Mosaic/Simcoe with just slight changes to the grain bill. 1318 for the yeast and 100 sulfate 150 chloride.

<snip>

That looks fantastic.

 

[pearljam1984]

Here's my second version. Enjoying this more than the first which I used the OP's original recipe.

Citra/Mosaic/Simcoe with just slight changes to the grain bill. 1318 for the yeast and 100 sulfate 150 chloride.

View attachment 419858

View attachment 419859

This looks delicious. Nice!!

 

[Brew_G]

Re: Hop Burn...

Is it possible that mineral levels would play a part? I'm no chemist, so I ask out of sheer naivete. The beer I'm having issues with had high fairly levels of chloride, so perhaps that's something to look into. Water chemistry is below:

100% RO Water
Gypsum: 0.35 g/gal
CaCl: 0.70 g/gal
NaCal: 0.15 g/gal

How about pH? Doubtful, I suppose, but it can't hurt to ask those smarter than I. I don't have a pH meter, but calculated mash pH (per Bru'N Water) was 5.4.

 

[plazola86]

Do you use a pump with this filter or is gravity enough to transfer with all the hop matter clogging the pump with time?

Gravity feed works fine for me and i dry hop with 6 OZ no cold crash. Never clogged with hops but it did clog on me when i used hibiscus flower on a kettle sour I made. It was a hoppy sour 4 OZ dry hop, 10 oz of hibiscus flower so there was a lot of junk in there.

 

[plazola86]

Re: Hop Burn...

Is it possible that mineral levels would play a part? I'm no chemist, so I ask out of sheer naivete. The beer I'm having issues with had high fairly levels of chloride, so perhaps that's something to look into. Water chemistry is below:

100% RO Water
Gypsum: 0.35 g/gal
CaCl: 0.70 g/gal
NaCal: 0.15 g/gal

How about pH? Doubtful, I suppose, but it can't hurt to ask those smarter than I. I don't have a pH meter, but calculated mash pH (per Bru'N Water) was 5.4.

I'm no water expert that's for sure but I like to go "extreme" with my water profiles. My NE style IPA's i use 250 PPM chloride:50 PPM sulfate. My west coast style IPA's i use 300 PPM sulfate:50 chloride. PH is usually 5.3-4 for NE and 5.1-2 for WC. I've only gotten the burn when keg hopping regardless of style. Now that others have mentioned their experience though I'm leaning more towards the yeast and hop interaction during fermentation and even when the beer is kegged.

 

[Sbe2]

I'm using one of these attached to the spigot of my fermenter to the out post on my keg to do a closed transfer, filters down to 100 micron (they have more sizes if you want). Got it for about $20 - $25 from vacmotion.com

Do you purge the filter before transferring? I am curious on how people minimize O2 exposure when using these because I sometimes get a stuck closed transfer and have looked into them.

 

[plazola86]

Do you purge the filter before transferring? I am curious on how people minimize O2 exposure when using these because I sometimes get a stuck closed transfer and have looked into them.

I purge the air out of my sanitized keg before I start to transfer so its filled with CO2. I hook the filter onto the keg to the "out" post first and it purges the filter with the CO2 inside the keg. I've never had a problem with oxidation doing this. I like all my IPA's way lighter on the color spectrum than most (SRM 2-4) and its the same color when it kicks as it is when it pours but again my kegs usually only last 3 weeks.

 

[Veidog]

I'm using one of these attached to the spigot of my fermenter to the out post on my keg to do a closed transfer , filters down to 100 micron (they have more sizes if you want). Got it for about $20 - $25 from vacmotion.com

Do you find that this filter gets clogged before the transfer is complete? I would think removing the filter to clean it mid transfer would introduce oxygen.

 

[EndOfLine]

I'm using one of these attached to the spigot of my fermenter to the out post on my keg to do a closed transfer, filters down to 100 micron (they have more sizes if you want). Got it for about $20 - $25 from vacmotion.com

This looks awesome. Will do some research on this

 

[TimmyWit]

Is it possible that the burn is from increased polyphenols in this style? This article seems to suggest that perhaps a way to counter it would be to increase the % of oats. The author refers to it a "harshness":

http://scottjanish.com/researching-new-england-ipa-neipa-haze/

The polyphenols may also be the reason for the browning we have seen from the bottled styles so maybe that can be combated by increasing the oats as well. Here is an old article (1999) explaining polyphenols. One of the key takeaways:

"Polyphenols come from plant matter, among other sources. They are responsible for the browning in cut apples, pears, bananas, potatoes, and other foods."

https://byo.com/bock/item/305-brewing-science-understanding-polyphenols

 

[Kosova]

Gravity feed works fine for me and i dry hop with 6 OZ no cold crash. Never clogged with hops but it did clog on me when i used hibiscus flower on a kettle sour I made. It was a hoppy sour 4 OZ dry hop, 10 oz of hibiscus flower so there was a lot of junk in there.

Thank you, it turns out a friend of mine has one of these I'll filter my next dry hopped beer with that.

 

[Brew_G]

I'm no water expert that's for sure but I like to go "extreme" with my water profiles. My NE style IPA's i use 250 PPM chloride:50 PPM sulfate. My west coast style IPA's i use 300 PPM sulfate:50 chloride. PH is usually 5.3-4 for NE and 5.1-2 for WC. I've only gotten the burn when keg hopping regardless of style. Now that others have mentioned their experience though I'm leaning more towards the yeast and hop interaction during fermentation and even when the beer is kegged.

Interesting. I ended up with about 120 ppm Chloride and 30 ppm Sulfate for this beer. Doesn't seem like that would be a contributing factor. Perhaps the keg hop in conjunction with some other factor can be the root cause.

Is it possible that the burn is from increased polyphenols in this style? This article seems to suggest that perhaps a way to counter it would be to increase the % of oats. The author refers to it a "harshness":

http://scottjanish.com/researching-new-england-ipa-neipa-haze/

The polyphenols may also be the reason for the browning we have seen from the bottled styles so maybe that can be combated by increasing the oats as well. Here is an old article (1999) explaining polyphenols. One of the key takeaways:

"Polyphenols come from plant matter, among other sources. They are responsible for the browning in cut apples, pears, bananas, potatoes, and other foods."

https://byo.com/bock/item/305-brewing-science-understanding-polyphenols

I used 1.5 lbs of rolled oats in this beer, so I'd lean towards a negative on oats helping. That is, unless it would have been far worse had I not used oats!

 

[Gustatorian]

Keg-hopping on a homebrew level is a risk altogether. I think there is a resounding affirmation within this thread that supports keg-hopping at least contributing, if not responsible, to the "hop burn". Not to mention, you're taking a risk getting vegetal (onion, chive, garlic) notes with keg-hopping. Not only is it unreproducible on a bigger scale, most commercial breweries will tell you that dry-hopping a beer post-cold crash (sub 50ºF temps) will result in vegetal notes that are impossible to remove from your beer.

 

[pearljam1984]

Keg-hopping on a homebrew level is a risk altogether. I think there is a resounding affirmation within this thread that supports keg-hopping at least contributing, if not responsible, to the "hop burn". Not to mention, you're taking a risk getting vegetal (onion, chive, garlic) notes with keg-hopping. Not only is it unreproducible on a bigger scale, most commercial breweries will tell you that dry-hopping a beer post-cold crash (sub 50ºF temps) will result in vegetal notes that are impossible to remove from your beer.

Always have seen folks talk about the off flavors like listed above you get from keg hopping. Not had it myself. Not Measuring what is achievable on a commercial scale as it’s a hobby still at this point.

Brulosophy did a great article on keg hopping over a long period of Time. Had no issues of off flavors.

http://brulosophy.com/2016/06/27/warm-dry-hop-vs-cold-keg-hop-exbeeriment-results/

 

[mintyice]

Never had a problem with weird flavors when keg hopping with a keg float

 

[Baldilocks_Brewing]

WARNING - LONG POST

I have learned a lot from this thread so I thought that I would "give back". In addition to the general recipe posts, there are a lot of process related questions. I have version #24 & 25 of this beer fermenting right now. With the help of the HBT community and tips from this thread I have gotten the process down to a science on my equipment. Here is my process beginning to end, I figure it may be useful to some of the folks just starting out to shorten their learning curve or others that have similar equipment. I have won gold & silver medals in homebrew competitions with variations of this recipe.

Equipment: Grainfather w/ hop spider, Speidel fermenter with thermowell and spigot on top & bottom, temp controlled mini-fridge


Distille Water Gypsum Epsom Calcium Chloride Lactic Acid
Mash (6 gal) 0.5tsp 0.5 tsp 1.75tsp 1.5mL
Sparge (3 gal) 0.25tsp 0.25tsp 0.75

Resulting OVERALL water = Ca:105; Mg:6; Na:0; Cl: 151; SO4:70

I. Make 1.5L starter 24hr prior
A. 6oz DME & 1/4tsp yeast nutrient &#8211; 24hrs pre-pitch
B. Decant yeast slurry from mason jar to ~150mL before pitching
C. Wash & sanitize mason jar
D. Prior to pitch fill sterilized / sanitized pint mason jar w/ ~400mL of starter (~60billion yeast) &#8211; store for next batch, remaining 1L of starter pitched into wort

II. Recipe &#8211; Assume 79% efficiency; 1.064SG &#8211; 1.013FG --- 6.7%ABV
&#8226; 10lbs &#8211; Golden Promise (double milled) or 2-Row or split combo
&#8226; 2lbs &#8211; Flaked Wheat
&#8226; 1lbs &#8211; Flaked Oats
&#8226; 1/2lbs &#8211; Honey Malt
NOTE: Using all GP & 8ozs of honey malt will result in a burnt orange color rather than bright orange hue from all 2-row & less Honey Malt - also all GP will be have a little more residual sweetness in final product

III. Mash at 154 degrees for 90mins
A. Check pH after 10mins &#8211; target 5.3-5.4. Add 0.5mL acid if necessary (If requires more than 2mL total &#8211; recalibrate meter)
B. Check for conversion with Iodine
C. Refractometer ~15.5 Brix (1.060SG)
D. Mashout at 168 degrees for 10min

IV. Sparge @168 &#8211; should take 30-45min
A. Set switch to BOIL
B. Allow to fully drain to a trickle before sparging, press top plate to grain bed
C. Pour ½ gal pitcher of sparge water at a time, allow to drain until no longer visible above top plate
D. Leave grain pipe until no more drippings OR less than 3 Brix in refractometer
E. Final Volume ~28L - ~14.5Brix or 1.056SG

V. Boil
A. Add 1/2oz bittering hops
B. Should be at 25L around an hour, next is sterilization which takes 10-15min
i. Add hop basket
ii. Add ½ tsp yeast nutrient
iii. Add lid and start circulating wort chiller &#8211; allow first dripping to drain off before draining into kettle. Check periodically to make sure flowing. If not, stop the boil, allow temp to drop to 200 then restart pump.

VI. Whirlpool - Set switch to MASH and set temp to 140
A. Drape sanitizer soaked paper towel over lid hole
B. WP #1 &#8211;180degrees &#8211; 3oz hops &#8211; continuously chill to 140, stir occasionally. (Using Grainfather counterflow chiller it takes about 15min to go from 180-140)
C. WP #2 &#8211; 140degrees &#8211; 4oz hops, stop chilling and hold for 15min &#8211; stir occasionally, then chill while transferring to fermenter
D. MAKE SURE FERMENTOR SPIGOTS ARE OFF BEFORE TRANSFER (I assume this needs no explanation.... )
E. Accounting for trub, hop absorption, & evaporation &#8211; transfer ~22L to fermenter. After pitching starter volume in fermenter should be 5.75-6gal

VII. Fermentation: Starting ferm temp &#8211; Conan: 63degrees; WY1318: 65degrees
A. Day 1-5 pitch temp: Dryhop #1 &#8211; 4oz, 48 hours after pitching starter
B. Day 6-7 add 2degrees: Dryhop #2 &#8211; 3oz on Day 7 - Turn on CO2 hose and hold over opening while adding dryhop
C. Day 8-9 add 2degrees
D. Day 10-11 add 2degrees: Remove blowoff tube & close top spigot. Pressurize fermenter by attaching CO2 hose to bottom spigot and bubble some CO2 into fermenter (prevents suck back & O2 exposure while cold crashing)
E. Day 12 &#8211; Cold crash: 40degrees for two days

VIII. Kegging
A. Fill CLEAN keg w/ sanitizer water, soak 15min &#8211; invert halfway through, soak 15min
B. Hook up keg to draft & CO2, Push out sanitizer through draft line.
C. Once it &#8220;blows&#8221; &#8211; place upside down for 5-10 to let settle, then pull PRV until no more sanitizer sprays
D. Remove poppet from keg OUT post
E. Attach transfer hose to bottom spigot of fermenter, other end to keg OUT
F. Attach CO2 hose to top spigot of fermenter, set pressure to ~5lbs then transfer
G. Unscrew PRV just enough where relieve pressure
H. Transfer until beer sprays out of PRV
I. Close PRV, replace poppet then proceed with carbing



I have the Clear Beer Draught system in my IPA kegs. I used to keg dryhop but I don't any longer because I was losing about 1/2 gallon on beer to hop absorption and I saw no benefit of keg hopping. I did a side by side versions of dryhop #2 in fermenter vs keg. Out of ten of my beer snob friends - no one could reliably tell the difference - testing across entire age of keg (newborn to four weeks). In both situations two weeks post keg - 28 days from grain - is the absolutely peak in flavor / aroma. Nevertheless I still use the CBD system and love it because I never have to worry about the oft talked about "cloudy first couple of pints".

 

[Tarpon87]

Very nice thorough documentation of your process, thank you.

 

[SanPancho]

I'm using one of these attached to the spigot of my fermenter to the out post on my keg to do a closed transfer, filters down to 100 micron (they have more sizes if you want). Got it for about $20 - $25 from vacmotion.com

Took a look at site - they show filters at 100 mesh, and 10 micron. but no 100 micron. You use one of those?

 

[plazola86]

Took a look at site - they show filters at 100 mesh, and 10 micron. but no 100 micron. You use one of those?

Got these a while ago. Your right I think I got the 100 mesh which equals out to 80 micron.

 

[anteater8]

Drinking my Citra, Mosaic, and El Dorado version of this right. Not as pungent as with Galaxy, but I think the El Dorado adds a bit of watermelon/pear. Its really approachable and crushable (even if I'd prefer it a bit more hop intensity).

I've been trying to keep a running list of all the hop combos I've tried, roughly ranked favorite to least favorite. They've all been great.

1) Citra/Mosaic/Galaxy
2) Mosaic
3) Citra
4) Citra/Equinox
5) Citra/Mosaic/El Dorado
6) Galaxy/Azacca
7) Galaxy
8) Citra/Mosaic/Simcoe/Columbus
9) Azacca
10) Citra/Mosaic/Galaxy (sacch trois)
11) Nelson

 

[shoreman]

For those that brew the IPAs all the time - how long until they loose their freshness in the keg? I have a 2.5 gallon keg that I&#8217;m thinking small batches might be the better route. I&#8217;ve had some that were even 1 month old in the can that loose that hop freshness quickly.

 

[sheikyerbouti]

For those that brew the IPAs all the time - how long until they loose their freshness in the keg? I have a 2.5 gallon keg that I’m thinking small batches might be the better route. I’ve had some that were even 1 month old in the can that loose that hop freshness quickly.

I dry hop in the keg, heavy 2-5 oz. First 3 days are out of this world. After 2 weeks, a lot of aroma is gone. After 1 month, still decent but probably 50% of what it once was. YMMV.

 

[sheikyerbouti]

Never had a problem with weird flavors when keg hopping with a keg float

You have convinced me. I am buying one.