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New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

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I've been trying to follow this recipe & process as closely as possible. I'm on day 4 of fermentation today, but I'm trying to figure out my plan for dry hopping because I don't have the screen for the purged-keg method described. I do have two empty kegs, I just don't have the filter screen. I'll throw the first dry hop into the primary tonight, but trying to figure out the next dry hop.

Option 1 - both dry hops in primary. Why not do both dry hops in the primary before kegging? There should be a blanket of C02 in the primary, so what's the worry?
Option 2 - first dry hop in primary, second dry hop in a bag in the serving keg.

Would one be better than the other?

Thanks,
John

I have actually been doing both dry hops in primary over the last couple months - it takes a little more care when it comes time to transfer to keg (because there is a lot more debris in the primary) - however, flavor wise - it works just as well.
*I have SS brew buckets with a cone shaped bottom, and I let them sit on the counter for 1-2 days before keg transfer to let as much debris settle out as possible. Still not perfect - but I manage to get pretty clean beer into the serving keg doing this.

I think people have good success doing either - so, it kind of comes down to what is going to work best for your particular system/process.
 
I have actually been doing both dry hops in primary over the last couple months - it takes a little more care when it comes time to transfer to keg (because there is a lot more debris in the primary) - however, flavor wise - it works just as well.
*I have SS brew buckets with a cone shaped bottom, and I let them sit on the counter for 1-2 days before keg transfer to let as much debris settle out as possible. Still not perfect - but I manage to get pretty clean beer into the serving keg doing this.

I think people have good success doing either - so, it kind of comes down to what is going to work best for your particular system/process.

Thanks, Braufessor! Pulled a sample yesterday (3.5 days) and it's at about 1.022...planning on first dry hop tonight. Looked amazing, smelled good, but still tasted like a yeast factory.
 
I've been trying to follow this recipe & process as closely as possible. I'm on day 4 of fermentation today, but I'm trying to figure out my plan for dry hopping because I don't have the screen for the purged-keg method described. I do have two empty kegs, I just don't have the filter screen. I'll throw the first dry hop into the primary tonight, but trying to figure out the next dry hop.

Option 1 - both dry hops in primary. Why not do both dry hops in the primary before kegging? There should be a blanket of C02 in the primary, so what's the worry?
Option 2 - first dry hop in primary, second dry hop in a bag in the serving keg.

Would one be better than the other?

Thanks,
John

If the keg is not going to move, I don't think it would be a big deal to throw loose pellet hops in there without a screen. You'd get a pint or two of debris but after that I would think it would be fine.
 
I've been trying to follow this recipe & process as closely as possible. I'm on day 4 of fermentation today, but I'm trying to figure out my plan for dry hopping because I don't have the screen for the purged-keg method described. I do have two empty kegs, I just don't have the filter screen. I'll throw the first dry hop into the primary tonight, but trying to figure out the next dry hop.

Option 1 - both dry hops in primary. Why not do both dry hops in the primary before kegging? There should be a blanket of C02 in the primary, so what's the worry?
Option 2 - first dry hop in primary, second dry hop in a bag in the serving keg.

Would one be better than the other?

Thanks,
John

I do both dry hops in primary. I have an SS Brewtech BME conical, so I do the first dry hop on day 2-3 when primary fermentation is still ripping and able to purge any air introduced out naturally. Then dry hop number 2 goes in around day 7. After that one, I use a low pressure regulator setup I built and the PRV on the fermenter to purge the headspace as best I can. I then keep 1-2 psi of co2 on the fermenter for the rest of the way so I can both dump trub and hop debris, as well as cold crash, using the co2 to replace the displaced volume/pressure in both cases. Then on around day 12-14, I use that 1-2 psi to push to a purged keg.

That's the best solution I've been able to come up with to satisfy my OCD regarding oxygen exposure. :). I've never been able to come up with an approach I like enough to do the second dry hop in the keg, but I'm still open to it. To me, I'd have to purge the entire volume of the keg 10-12 times at 30psi to feel like really got the O2ppm down enough and that would use a ton of CO2. It would probably work fine, though.

Dan
 
I do both dry hops in primary. I have an SS Brewtech BME conical, so I do the first dry hop on day 2-3 when primary fermentation is still ripping and able to purge any air introduced out naturally. Then dry hop number 2 goes in around day 7. After that one, I use a low pressure regulator setup I built and the PRV on the fermenter to purge the headspace as best I can. I then keep 1-2 psi of co2 on the fermenter for the rest of the way so I can both dump trub and hop debris, as well as cold crash, using the co2 to replace the displaced volume/pressure in both cases. Then on around day 12-14, I use that 1-2 psi to push to a purged keg.

That's the best solution I've been able to come up with to satisfy my OCD regarding oxygen exposure. :). I've never been able to come up with an approach I like enough to do the second dry hop in the keg, but I'm still open to it. To me, I'd have to purge the entire volume of the keg 10-12 times at 30psi to feel like really got the O2ppm down enough and that would use a ton of CO2. It would probably work fine, though.

Dan

I usually do a closed transfer from Primary to C02 purged keg and then add dry hops afterwards, quickly purging any O2 introduced when adding the dry hops by filling the small headspace with C02, purging and repeating a few times. Is this not doing as good of a job as I think?
 
I usually do a closed transfer from Primary to C02 purged keg and then add dry hops afterwards, quickly purging any O2 introduced when adding the dry hops by filling the small headspace with C02, purging and repeating a few times. Is this not doing as good of a job as I think?

I think that works fine as long as you're purging the keg headspace sufficiently. There's a great chart floating around here somewhere that tells you remaining ppm of O2 left in headspace after x amount of purges at a given psi. To get the O2 down to a level where I'm comfortable based on information I've read about what amounts can cause detectable oxidation levels, that chart says I need At least 13 purges at 30psi. Sounds like a ton of co2, I know.

My method probably isn't any better in terms of results, but uses less co2 for a couple reasons. Really, it's just preference at that point.

Dan
 
Great, I don't think I want to see that chart... ;)

LOL, I know what you mean.

Because it's how I roll, here it is anyway.... :)

IMG_0406.PNG
 
LOL, I know what you mean.

Because it's how I roll, here it is anyway.... :)



When you say you would need 13 purges at 30 PSI, isn't that assuming you are starting with 250,000 (ish) PPM of O2 to begin with? Is that our normal air concentration of O2? If not, what is that chart assuming?

If I have a fully CO2 purged keg and open it for 10-15 seconds max to drop in my hop tube, I'm guessing I wouldn't have that high of a concentration of O2. Then again, I know nothing about this sort of thing.
 
Wikipedia answered my question, I'm guessing it's assuming it has no CO2 in there to begin with as the normal PPM of O2 in our air is 209,460 which looks like it lines up nicely with that chart.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmosphere_of_Earth

So I assume (correct me if I'm wrong) that I would need far less purging if I'm starting with 100% CO2 and only introducing air for a limited amount of time and with CO2 being heavier than air O2 I'm guessing it tends to hold it's ground a bit.
 
When you say you would need 13 purges at 30 PSI, isn't that assuming you are starting with 250,000 (ish) PPM of O2 to begin with? Is that our normal air concentration of O2? If not, what is that chart assuming?

If I have a fully CO2 purged keg and open it for 10-15 seconds max to drop in my hop tube, I'm guessing I wouldn't have that high of a concentration of O2. Then again, I know nothing about this sort of thing.

Yeah, I'm sure the slope of the lines would be different based on initial concentrations of O2. I'm no scientist, but I would also assume that the point at which the line gets down to 0.1ppm would be closer to the same than you'd think even for a low starting ppm. Because I would assume the net ppm O2 reduced in each purge would be lower with a lower starting O2 concentration, especially in the first few purges. Does that make sense, or am I talking out of my ass? The latter is definitely possible.
 
Yeah, I'm sure the slope of the lines would be different based on initial concentrations of O2. I'm no scientist, but I would also assume that the point at which the line gets down to 0.1ppm would be closer to the same than you'd think even for a low starting ppm. Because I would assume the net ppm O2 reduced in each purge would be lower with a lower starting O2 concentration, especially in the first few purges. Does that make sense, or am I talking out of my ass? The latter is definitely possible.

This sounds like it deserves it's own topic...I'd love to hear what those with more in depth knowledge of this sort of thing have to say.
 
This sounds like it deserves it's own topic...I'd love to hear what those with more in depth knowledge of this sort of thing have to say.

Good point. Best not to derail this thread too much. I'd also love to hear what someone with a better knowledge of the science would say about that.
 
LOL, I know what you mean.

Because it's how I roll, here it is anyway.... :)

This explains a lot as to why my ipas loose flavor after 4 weeks even after my CO2 blanket. Thanks!

How about you, and anyone else's, experience with hop flavor lose?

Yeah, O2 is 20% concentration in atmosphere. At 20,000ppm its 2% and 2,000 it's .2%. Thinking myself that should be good enough.
 
How did you like the Hothead? It's next on my list to try.

The beer came out great but I'd be lying to you if I told you I could discern with my palette any distinguishable flavor contribution with so much flavor coming from the hops. The attenuation ended up being pretty low which was one of the goals for the style; leave some residual sweetness to aid in the "juicy" perception. Aesthetically I thought the beer was very pleasing. Although only the first few glasses were super cloudy, the rest of the keg has a nice haze. I played it safe with the temp on this one but as another member suggested in a previous post, I plan to do another split batch in the future so I can try a side by side at each end of the temp range. I did end up stumbling on an article where someone took part in a sensory panel to test the results at different temps:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Homebrewin...perience_with_omega_hothead_ale_oyl057_yeast/
 
I've been meaning to share a technique I've been using recently to cold crash with virtually no oxygen exposure. It doesn't require hooking up CO2, a second regulator, or any extra equipment other than $2 worth of drilled stoppers.

I think cold crashing this beer is important. Before I started cold crashing, I would get at least a week or two of harsh bite from suspended hop particles. Sometimes it never really went away. I would also have a bunch of sludge at the bottom of the keg when it kicked, which would mess up my beer lines, etc.

I also think avoiding oxygen exposure is very important to this style, and I'm just not OK with sucking a bunch of air into the headspace while cold crashing. Before I started doing this, I could actually see a thin dark layer of oxidized beer forming at the top of the fermentor while crashing.

So, here's what I came up with for storing some CO2 from fermentation, and feeding it back into the primary while cold crashing. I had seen some other threads on this talking about mylar balloons and all kinds of stuff, but I think this is a more elegant, sanitary approach.

Here's how it works: I start off with the blowoff tube (the yellowed one) in a normal jar or whatever. Once I am past any potential blowoff risk, but still actively fermenting, I put that hose into the top of the first jug, which starts off filled to the top with star san. The CO2 pressure pushes that star san through the jumper line into the second jug, which fills up and then just allows excess CO2 to bubble out into the atmosphere. The first jug is now full of CO2. This is what's pictured below.

When I start to cold crash, the headspace contracts, which sucks star san from the second jug back into the first, and CO2 from the first jug back into the fermentor. That fermentor is a thin-walled plastic Fermonster, and there's little enough negative pressure that it doesn't even buckle. At the end of the cold crash, the first jug is filled back up about 1/2 to 2/3 of the way.

When I'm done cold crashing, I just take the stopper out of the fermentor and hang a CO2 line in there, trickling CO2 to maintain positive pressure as the beer siphons out. There's no rush of air when I take the stopper out because there's no negative pressure. I siphon into a keg that has been filled with star san and purged with CO2, so the beer comes into no contact with oxygen.

I do all of my dry hopping loose in primary, but by cold crashing I get almost no trub or hop matter into the keg. When the keg kicks, the bottom is nearly clean.

The one thing that may be tricky is finding a double-drilled stopper. The guy at my LHBS has a drill bit in the back that does it, so he just gave me those two stoppers for $1 each. I think I've seen threads about people doing it themselves with a piece of copper pipe or something. I guess a normal drill bit doesn't work too well. The jugs are 1-gallon fermentors I had lying around.

Anyway, hope someone finds this helpful. This is the best balance I've found between (relative) simplicity and feeling like I'm doing the best I can do avoid O2 and improve my beer. :mug:


Sounds good. How are you siphoning? Co2 pushs into keg? If you can get a pic of this that would be awesome. Just not understanding getting co2 and siphoning without pulling the stopper.
 
Hey everyone, I had a ton of issues with a brew similar to this style. Let's just say Murphy's Law held up for the duration of this batch for me. Pretty much from start to finish. Beer is still salvaged, but my patience is almost out.

I'm in quite the predicament right now. So I used a corny keg as my secondary vessel. Purged and pressure transferred from my primary. I had two sanitized muslin bags for dry hopping hanging from string and tied to the relief valve, anchored down by shot glasses. After 1 day in the secondary, I notice I could only see one bag tied to the relief valve, so one of my hop bags fell to the bottom of the keg. Not a huge deal, instead of just lifting my dry hop bags out and carbonating, I pressure transferred over to the final purged keg. As I was transferring (3-4psi) I noticed a stoppage in flow. I immediately thought the hop bag was clogging the dip tube. right when I went to detach the liquid out disconnect to stop the transfer, I heard a pop and could see a ton of sediment coming through. Luckily I stopped it a second after the pop. So now I have an exploded muslin bag at the bottom of my secondary. I was able to transfer about half of the keg over. I ordered a filter earlier this week, so my options are..

1. wait for the filter and filter inline between the secondary and the final keg, adding into the already transferred beer. I've been reading that this could increase oxidation in these NEIPA's so I'm not sure about this. I would do a closed transfer, transferring sanitizer solution through the filter with co2 before transferring the beer.
2. remove the dip tube and put nylon or some sort of screen over it and transfer the rest immediately
3. Carb up the one keg and keep the second half of the batch separate. Since this half is mostly free of hop sediment and the burn from the fines, I'm worried that adding on top of this would decrease the quality of the beer.

4. Alternate idea that I haven't thought of.

I really want to salvage the 2ish gallons that are in the secondary. FYI roughly 3 ounces of hops were in that bag so it is murky!

Right now both kegs are purged with co2 and sitting sealed.

What are your thoughts on keeping the batch split into two? I have keg space and tap space, so they aren't issues. Let me know what you think my path forward should be. Tonight I'll either be filter transferring into the already transferred keg, or filter transferring into a new keg.
Sorry for the novel..
 
Hey everyone, I had a ton of issues with a brew similar to this style. Let's just say Murphy's Law held up for the duration of this batch for me. Pretty much from start to finish. Beer is still salvaged, but my patience is almost out.

I'm in quite the predicament right now. So I used a corny keg as my secondary vessel. Purged and pressure transferred from my primary. I had two sanitized muslin bags for dry hopping hanging from string and tied to the relief valve, anchored down by shot glasses. After 1 day in the secondary, I notice I could only see one bag tied to the relief valve, so one of my hop bags fell to the bottom of the keg. Not a huge deal, instead of just lifting my dry hop bags out and carbonating, I pressure transferred over to the final purged keg. As I was transferring (3-4psi) I noticed a stoppage in flow. I immediately thought the hop bag was clogging the dip tube. right when I went to detach the liquid out disconnect to stop the transfer, I heard a pop and could see a ton of sediment coming through. Luckily I stopped it a second after the pop. So now I have an exploded muslin bag at the bottom of my secondary. I was able to transfer about half of the keg over. I ordered a filter earlier this week, so my options are..

1. wait for the filter and filter inline between the secondary and the final keg, adding into the already transferred beer. I've been reading that this could increase oxidation in these NEIPA's so I'm not sure about this. I would do a closed transfer, transferring sanitizer solution through the filter with co2 before transferring the beer.
2. remove the dip tube and put nylon or some sort of screen over it and transfer the rest immediately
3. Carb up the one keg and keep the second half of the batch separate. Since this half is mostly free of hop sediment and the burn from the fines, I'm worried that adding on top of this would decrease the quality of the beer.

4. Alternate idea that I haven't thought of.

I really want to salvage the 2ish gallons that are in the secondary. FYI roughly 3 ounces of hops were in that bag so it is murky!

Right now both kegs are purged with co2 and sitting sealed.

What are your thoughts on keeping the batch split into two? I have keg space and tap space, so they aren't issues. Let me know what you think my path forward should be. Tonight I'll either be filter transferring into the already transferred keg, or filter transferring into a new keg.
Sorry for the novel..

Honestly - if you have 3ish gallons of good beer in one keg already, I would count my blessings and leave that 3 gallons alone. As for the the 2 gallons left in the other keg...... I would cold crash it to get as much out of suspension as possible and then try your filtering technique to jump it to its own keg, or even siphon it out of the main keg opening if you have to. But, I personally would not risk turning all 5 gallons into mediocre or worse beer.
Just about anyone who has made enough of these has a story or two about plugged kegs/posts/difficult transfers/etc...... I have been there myself.:mug:
 
That's what I'm leaning towards. Thanks for the feedback

BTW I just checked out your NE IPA recipe and it is eerily similar to the one I'm working with now. The only difference is I used WY1318 and a 40/40 2row/maris otter ratio and slightly more oats. My Chloride to sulfate ratio is also slightly less than yours, but the hop schedule is almost identical! This is my first stab at this style, so I'm hoping it turns out well.
 
...............

**Dry Hop #2 - Around day 12, transfer to CO2 purged dry hopping keg with
1.5 oz. Citra
1 oz. Mosaic
.5 oz. Galaxy
(I use this strategy: http://www.bear-flavored.com/2014/09...no-oxygen.html )

...................
Just went back to your updated main post addendum or whatever you want to call it and noticed your link for the transferring to CO2 purged dry hopping keg link is dead.. any chance you have a working link? definitely want to consider this
 
I'm gonna brew something very similar to this tomorrow - just wondering, has anyone tried to brew it with a kolsch strain? I'm planning to use 2565 in mine.
 
Going back to back weekends as my kegs are empty and my stash of Trillium is just about gone :(
Kegging last Saturdays batch tomorrow morning, will hit it with the quick carb tomorrow night and hope to drink Sunday. That is a Mosaic focused beer with galaxy, exp grapefruit and citra accents. This week will be a Citra focused beer with El Dorado and mosaic accents. Both bittered with Columbus. Also mixing in some flaked wheat and reducing the flaked out as I only have about 4oz left. Hoping to get my boil better so I end up with more beer in the kegs, adding more water this time and going to try a roller boil. I usually just crank the thing but I am losing a TON of water each brew day so hoping to reign that in a little this time.
 
So I've made a few of these now. So easy to keep the grain bill, change up the hops a little, maybe try a new strain of yeast, and baam, another great tasting beer. Makes sense how all the NE style breweries crank out so many diff kind every couple of weeks.
 
So I've made a few of these now. So easy to keep the grain bill, change up the hops a little, maybe try a new strain of yeast, and baam, another great tasting beer. Makes sense how all the NE style breweries crank out so many diff kind every couple of weeks.

I agree once you get your process and base malt locked in, should be easy to keep cranking out tasty beers. At least that's the hope. :mug:
 
So I've made a few of these now. So easy to keep the grain bill, change up the hops a little, maybe try a new strain of yeast, and baam, another great tasting beer. Makes sense how all the NE style breweries crank out so many diff kind every couple of weeks.

Yep - I brew this probably 3 times per month at least. 1 or 2 of them are the post #1418 recipe and then I play around with something a touch different here and there. A keg almost never survives more than 2-3 weeks on tap. Wife kicked a keg yesterday serving it to the guys putting solar panels on our house, put a new keg on tap last night that I had brewed two weeks ago, another one in the fermenter and brewing another tomorrow..... so it goes.:mug:
 
Has anyone used Bravo as an NEIPA hop?

I've never used it but the recent Hop Chronical article on it makes me think it might fit.
In fact I'm considering an ABC blend: Azacca, Bravo, Citra.
 
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