New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[Matt_man]

Finally getting around to making this tomorrow but I am stumped on which hops I should go with.

I have a pound each of Cascade, Columbus, Simcoe, Amarillo, and Citra to play around with. Having never made this style before I am hesitant to go all Citra. Maybe 1oz each of Simcoe/Amarillo/Citra for each addition? Or maybe 2:1 Citra/Amarillo? I have a bit of Nugget lying around I could bitter with but I was also thinking that Columbus might be better suited. Does anyone have any thoughts?

I would bitter with Columbus. Both of these options would give you good results, I don't think you could go wrong with either. If you have a pound of each hop you could do a batch of both!

1oz each of Simcoe/Amarillo/Citra for each addition - Good mix lots of floral/grape fruit aroma and taste.

2:1 Citra/Amarillo - Will give you a fruiter (mango)/ citrus aroma and flavor.

I think you are on the right track with either of those ideas. I would bitter with the Columbus or Nugget (.5-.75 ounces) and then I like the idea of 1 ounce each of Citra/Amarillo/simcoe ..... that should be a very nice combo. The only two suggestions I would have in regard to the hops you have to work with are these personal preferences:

* I would personally not overdo the Columbus if you choose to use them in the late additions/dry hop. I think a little can go a long way with columbus, and it can be over done.

* If you choose to use some cascade, I would use it in the flameout/whirlpool, but not in the dry hop. I find it can come off as dry in this beer.

Again - those are my personal preferences.

Thanks for the opinions! I'll be sure to post the final product once I am done and let you know how it turned out!

Well this turned out really well! I have no idea how close it is to a true NEIPA because I have never had one. Hence why I had to make one just to see. The visual I think is there at the very least. I went with 1oz each of Simcoe/Amarillo/Citra for the additions and Columbus for bittering and it turned out pretty tasty. I might drop the Simcoe next time and do a 2:1 Citra/Amarillo as suggested by plazola86 to really hammer through that mango/citrus. Overall though I am very pleased.

80% 2 Row (Rahr)
18% White Wheat
2% Honey

 

[jpb2716]

Well this turned out really well! I have no idea how close it is to a true NEIPA because I have never had one. Hence why I had to make one just to see. The visual I think is there at the very least. I went with 1oz each of Simcoe/Amarillo/Citra for the additions and Columbus for bittering and it turned out pretty tasty. I might drop the Simcoe next time and do a 2:1 Citra/Amarillo as suggested by plazola86 to really hammer through that mango/citrus. Overall though I am very pleased.

80% 2 Row (Rahr)
18% White Wheat
2% Honey

That looks delicious!

 

[plazola86]

That looks delicious! Got me thirsty and its not even 12:00 o clock here. If you really want to go to town on the mango/fruit flavor try a mosaic/citra combo. I have a mosaic/eureka hop combo (W.C style ipa) carbing now taste like dank mango hop juice if that makes since.

 

[armenianbrewer]

The short answer is yes.

If you follow the link in my signature below, you can take a look at the Nelson post to see how I use the bucket. And then in the Amarillo post you can see how to use the bags in the keg (I now use a finer bag than the one in the post)...but I have only dry hopped all at once lately to avoid putting any hops in the brew bucket to prevent the issue you stated above. You could just use two kegs to double dry hop and jump from one purged keg to another. The first keg may need a spunding valve though to prevent the pressure from building up too high. Or you could devise a way to suspend a bag in the bucket.....dental floss...or a tab welded, soldered or riveted to the lid. I've only used the bags in kegs and shake them every now and then to ensure good extraction. You can also buy the keg lids with tabs on them.

I've found the double dry hop to be unnecessary for my tastes since I can't tell the difference. Also by using both dry hops in one dry hop I think I get better aroma and flavor. All this biotransfomation talk seems like talk. I've seen no taste test done to prove or disprove it. I know there's research that proves that it happens but haven't seen any real world demonstrations that people can taste the difference.

Thanks for all the input and maybe at some point I'll have enough practice and understanding to get sophisticated with using multiple kegs but currently I just have one 5 gal keg and thus I'm limited.

I think I'll try the bio trans form hop with my pellets in bags. I planned on 4 oz for the biotransformation hop.. I have 2 small hop socks and 1 large hop sock from the BrewBag site, and Im thinking if I use 1 oz each for the 2 small bags and then 2oz in the larger bag, and toss them into the fermenter, that might be my best option to avoid having all the particles get sucked into my keg and then subsequently clogging my keg post like my last batch of a single hopped mosaic wheat beer... ended up dry hopping loose with 2 oz but some of the particles got sucked in during transfer and ended up really clogging my line unfortunately

 

[leesmith]

Thanks for all the input and maybe at some point I'll have enough practice and understanding to get sophisticated with using multiple kegs but currently I just have one 5 gal keg and thus I'm limited.



I think I'll try the bio trans form hop with my pellets in bags. I planned on 4 oz for the biotransformation hop.. I have 2 small hop socks and 1 large hop sock from the BrewBag site, and Im thinking if I use 1 oz each for the 2 small bags and then 2oz in the larger bag, and toss them into the fermenter, that might be my best option to avoid having all the particles get sucked into my keg and then subsequently clogging my keg post like my last batch of a single hopped mosaic wheat beer... ended up dry hopping loose with 2 oz but some of the particles got sucked in during transfer and ended up really clogging my line unfortunately

Sounds like a plan! Smart to split the hops into different bags. I use one really big bag so they have room to swell and swim around a bit.

To ensure they don't drop to the bottom and get sucked into the dip tube, use some unflavored dental floss to suspend them.
You could tie it to the bag and sandwich the other end between the lid gasket and the top edge of bucket. Do it right where the latches clamp to get as much force as possible. My guess is the silicone seal will be enough to seal around the thin dental floss and prevent co2 leakage. You could then tie it off on the clamp itself to prevent it from sagging too low or use tape to hold it on the side of the fermentor. This same method has been used in kegs.

Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

 

[stickyfinger]

Here's a link to an article written on fining NEIPA's:

http://www.alesoftheriverwards.com/2016/06/brewing-up-xbmt-new-england-style.html?m=1

Interesting:

"It seemed that the only real consensus from that group was that we felt we could tell a difference on the first pass through the triangle test but the more we tasted and sniffed the more confused we had become. It was interesting that we basically all got palate fatigue after only a few sips of this beer. "

And, in the comments section:

"Now, this past week, I was cold crashing the second half of the batch and I did the same pre-gelatin crash time but I ended up having the gelatin in there for 5 days because I got sick and didn't feel like kegging. That beer's crystal clear now. So these things clear...it just takes a lot longer. No idea why."

"Ive had the same experiences, but the murkiest have been batches I forgot whirlfloc. If people are forgoing whirlfloc in order to get these hazy as possible they are doing it wrong. You'll get the muddy character when a persistent haze is more appropriate."

I think the whirfloc vs not might be somewhat of a factor in some of my haziest beers too. I'd like to see if you can tell a difference in the final beer using it or not. I'd guess no, especially since there is so much flavor and palate fatigue kicks in, which I also have experienced. Nothing better than that very first gulp!

 

[cheesebach]

And, in the comments section:

"Now, this past week, I was cold crashing the second half of the batch and I did the same pre-gelatin crash time but I ended up having the gelatin in there for 5 days because I got sick and didn't feel like kegging. That beer's crystal clear now. So these things clear...it just takes a lot longer. No idea why."

I noticed this as well and was thinking that it somewhat helps to support a suspicion of mine that fining with gelatin in the primary/secondary vs. keg might have a different impact on the beer after sufficient time. I mentioned earlier this week in this thread that I think I lost most of my hop aroma and flavor in an APA that I kegged about 3-4 weeks ago by fining in the keg. The user who posted the comment didn't mention whether flavor was impacted in any way or just the clarity.

Given that many have had good results using gelatin in hoppy beers, I'm beginning to think that either 1) gelatin will eventually strip hop flavors regardless of where it's added in the process but may take 1-2 or more weeks until it becomes noticeable, or 2) gelatin continues to pull out hop flavors over time unless the beer is racked off, leaving the gelatin behind in the fermenter.

I actually have a few bottles that I pulled from the keg with my beergun about 1 week after fining that I'm curious to check now before that keg kicks. If those still have good hop character in them, that would be a smoking gun pointing to keg fining being a practice to avoid with hoppy beers. I'll report back in the next few days once I get a chance to try them next to one another.

 

[stickyfinger]

Just racked my latest NE IPA.

90% GW 2-row
10% GW C15
165F mash
no whirfloc
WLP002
1.078 to 1.019 for 75%AA and 7.6% ABV (higher attenuation than expected for this yeast and mash temp!)
2 oz each of Citra, Mosaic and Galaxy for 90 minute whirlpool
4 oz each of Citra, Mosaic and Galaxy for primary dry hop

I DEFY anyone to come up with a better hop combination than this, the Braufessor original.... Tropical, dank-resinous, fantastic! Next, I must do a 1:1 Mosaic:Galaxy to up the dankness factor!

This is the first one I've done with a hop stand for a long time. Can't tell if it's better than usual. Need to do a side-by-side on that too at some point. So many things to try!

 

[stickyfinger]

I noticed this as well and was thinking that it somewhat helps to support a suspicion of mine that fining with gelatin in the primary/secondary vs. keg might have a different impact on the beer after sufficient time. I mentioned earlier this week in this thread that I think I lost most of my hop aroma and flavor in an APA that I kegged about 3-4 weeks ago by fining in the keg. The user who posted the comment didn't mention whether flavor was impacted in any way or just the clarity.

Given that many have had good results using gelatin in hoppy beers, I'm beginning to think that either 1) gelatin will eventually strip hop flavors regardless of where it's added in the process but may take 1-2 or more weeks until it becomes noticeable, or 2) gelatin continues to pull out hop flavors over time unless the beer is racked off, leaving the gelatin behind in the fermenter.

I actually have a few bottles that I pulled from the keg with my beergun about 1 week after fining that I'm curious to check now before that keg kicks. If those still have good hop character in them, that would be a smoking gun pointing to keg fining being a practice to avoid with hoppy beers. I'll report back in the next few days once I get a chance to try them next to one another.

My gut says that if you use gelatin, you can't just stop it from working. It will always be in solution and slowly dropping out until it has nothing else to grab onto, but you might be right.

Since my experiment seemed to show that there is little difference in flavor if any, I am leaning towards not using it in hoppy beers just as an insurance policy. I need to use it more though and try it in an NE IPA. Some of my NE IPAs taste better after a few weeks in the keg, so if I could speed that up it would be preferable, but it might just come with time and not gelatin. Hard to say.

 

[Braufessor]

.......Citra, Mosaic and Galaxy.....

I DEFY anyone to come up with a better hop combination than this, the Braufessor original.... Tropical, dank-resinous, fantastic! Next, I must do a 1:1 Mosaic:Galaxy to up the dankness factor!

Yep - god knows I have tried - but I just keep coming back to that combo - it seems to hit all the boxes. Brings the best of everything I personally like in hoppy beers.

For whatever reason though - I keep trying various options just in case

 

[olotti]

My latest is on the left and on the right is a beer getting a lot of hype around mid Michigan from old nation brewing called m-43, their take on the neipa and prob the closest we'll get to a true neipa around here it's been getting rave reviews and sells out everywhere around here. Mine is just slightly more bitter or green but otherwise it's spot on. Theirs uses mosaic, citra and Amarillo I used galaxy, citra and Amarillo. I think it's one of the better neipas I've made to date. View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1490916540.030995.jpg the color is more light orange than the pic due to lighting.

 

[stickyfinger]

Yep - god knows I have tried - but I just keep coming back to that combo - it seems to hit all the boxes. Brings the best of everything I personally like in hoppy beers.

For whatever reason though - I keep trying various options just in case

That CMG combo is ABSOLUTELY killer. My wife doesn't like it, as it is too "dank" for her, but it is also my idea of an ideal hop flavor! bomb!

I wonder if doing a 1:1:1:1 Citra:Mosaic:Galaxy:Nelson might be great?

 

[stickyfinger]

My latest is on the left and on the right is a beer getting a lot of hype around mid Michigan from old nation brewing called m-43, their take on the neipa and prob the closest we'll get to a true neipa around here it's been getting rave reviews and sells out everywhere around here. Mine is just slightly more bitter or green but otherwise it's spot on. Theirs uses mosaic, citra and Amarillo I used galaxy, citra and Amarillo. I think it's one of the better neipas I've made to date. View attachment 394660 the color is more light orange than the pic due to lighting.

makes sense, galaxy and mosaic are somewhat interchangeable (hold back the rage to the purists!) in my opinion. both have a character that is hard to get in other hops. i was in ann arbor for several years. never heard of "old nation" My fav brewery in michigan was Shorts, way up north. ABC in ann arbor has a really good NE IPA-style beer now, we visited last Fall.

 

[olotti]

makes sense, galaxy and mosaic are somewhat interchangeable (hold back the rage to the purists!) in my opinion. both have a character that is hard to get in other hops. i was in ann arbor for several years. never heard of "old nation" My fav brewery in michigan was Shorts, way up north. ABC in ann arbor has a really good NE IPA-style beer now, we visited last Fall.

Old nation is new they just opened two yrs ago and are east of lansing, this beer debuted prob two months ago and today they released a new version but it was pub release only. When you say abc are you talking about arbor brewing I haven't heard of a neipa they make, do you know what it's called? It's prob draft only.

 

[stickyfinger]

Old nation is new they just opened two yrs ago and are east of lansing, this beer debuted prob two months ago and today they released a new version but it was pub release only. When you say abc are you talking about arbor brewing I haven't heard of a neipa they make, do you know what it's called? It's prob draft only.

yeah, arbor brewing co. it is called Buzzsaw. They are calling it a WC IPA, but I think it could pass for an NE IPA. It was very good in either case and pretty hazy. i guess it was as close to an NE IPA that i've tasted in michigan... i'll have to hit up old nation or tell my friend to stop there when he goes home to visit his parents in lansing from VT.

 

[olotti]

yeah, arbor brewing co. it is called Buzzsaw. They are calling it a WC IPA, but I think it could pass for an NE IPA. It was very good in either case and pretty hazy. i guess it was as close to an NE IPA that i've tasted in michigan... i'll have to hit up old nation or tell my friend to stop there when he goes home to visit his parents in lansing from VT.

Ok yeah I've had that but it's been awhile. Well let me know when your buddy is coming back and if I can get some m-43 for him I'll try, I think their trying to make it a bigger more regular part of the rotation due to the demand so maybe next time he comes home it'll be more readily available.

 

[stickyfinger]

Ok yeah I've had that but it's been awhile. Well let me know when your buddy is coming back and if I can get some m-43 for him I'll try, I think their trying to make it a bigger more regular part of the rotation due to the demand so maybe next time he comes home it'll be more readily available.

cool, i will. Go Spartans 2017....! Sorry to everyone on the forum for the love-fest. My apologies.

 

[ThirstyPawsHB]

Go Spartans 2017....!

Don't think so. Go Big Red!!😀

View attachment 1490923114597.jpg

 

[olotti]

cool, i will. Go Spartans 2017....! Sorry to everyone on the forum for the love-fest. My apologies.

Yeah I'm a Michigan fan, guess I'll keep the m-43. Lol.

 

[ThirstyPawsHB]

Go Blue! Love Harbaugh! Was a Stanford and 49ers fan. Basically, hate OSU and MSU..the other 12 are cool with me.

 

[WesM63]

I had some M43 a few weeks ago when I was in A2 (Go Blue!). It was good, but not on the same level as the big guys (Treehouse, etc).

 

[isomerization]

Can this style beer still be made in all it's greatness, with the whole package of components from the juiciness, the haziness, the flavor, the aroma and so on and so forth... but instead of loose pellets for the biotransform hop and the subsequent post-ferm dry hop, all the hopping done in fine mesh bags?

Will the oils and hop particles still interact with the yeasties?

I'm having issues transferring beer in my SS brewtech bucket and sucking into hops into my keg with transferring due to the loose pellets finding it's way into the pickup tube

I currently have no means of cold crashing my 7.5 bucket (mini fridge not big enough to house it without modifying it significantly), and there's no room in the keezer (nor would it be easy to get it in and out of there without killing my back or sloshing everything that settles to the bottom haha

Anyway, thoughts on making these beers with bagged hops for bioferm hopping and postferm hopping?

I use a SS brewtech bucket, and use 1 gallon paint strainer bags from HD/Lowes for both primary/biotransformation and keg hopping. You can clean and reuse them as well. Unflavored dental floss doesn't disrupt the seal on either lid as well. I keep each bag to 3 oz max, and upon inspecting the hops later, there are no dry spots are strange clumps, so I feel pretty confident I'm getting max extraction. I feel like I read somewhere this happens in like 24 hours anyways? This makes it much easier to semi-closed transfer (opened fermenter lid) to a purged keg as well.

 

[plazola86]

I wonder if doing a 1:1:1:1 Citra:Mosaic:Galaxy:Nelson might be great?

Have you ever tried Eureka!? Nelson is by far my favorite hop but Eureka has the same characteristics. Not so much in flavor but they are so unique from any other hop they're unmistakable. Eureka has a heavy dank, resinous aroma. I just made a Mosaic/Eureka IPA using equal of each. Both these hops are "dominant" and together they just take everything over the top...in a good way!

 

[stickyfinger]

Have you ever tried Eureka!? Nelson is by far my favorite hop but Eureka has the same characteristics. Not so much in flavor but they are so unique from any other hop they're unmistakable. Eureka has a heavy dank, resinous aroma. I just made a Mosaic/Eureka IPA using equal of each. Both these hops are "dominant" and together they just take everything over the top...in a good way!

I just kicked a keg of Eureka!/Denali NE IPA. I agree that Eureka! is very unique. It is strong piney-mango. To me, it is the epitome of very fresh mango. However, the Denali kind of took over the beer over time, strangely. Denali is even more intense! I think Eureka! can serve well in many applications though.

 

[olotti]

I just kicked a keg of Eureka!/Denali NE IPA. I agree that Eureka! is very unique. It is strong piney-mango. To me, it is the epitome of very fresh mango. However, the Denali kind of took over the beer over time, strangely. Denali is even more intense! I think Eureka! can serve well in many applications though.

Interesting as I made a Denali only hop beer to try it and maybe I got some bad hops, I doubt it , and i was very dissaponted with it. I expected that citra, galaxy topical hop and it was just off.

 

[olotti]

I had some M43 a few weeks ago when I was in A2 (Go Blue!). It was good, but not on the same level as the big guys (Treehouse, etc).

I can't compare it to treehouse as I've never had any but This beer to me is more in the vein of the trillium beers I've had. I can only guess that the treehouse has even less bitterness and more nose and juice upfront.

 

[Nomofett]

I'm going to bottle mine tonight (Denali, Mosaic, and Mandarina Bavaria) first time attempting, or drinking, an NEIPA. Do you recommend normal carbing or under carbing a little for a smoother mouth feel?

 

[Cavpilot2000]

I can't compare it to treehouse as I've never had any but This beer to me is more in the vein of the trillium beers I've had. I can only guess that the treehouse has even less bitterness and more nose and juice upfront.

That would be a fairly accurate statement. Green and Julius from Treehouse have almost no bitterness to speak of. Some of their other NEIPAs have more (Sap, Haze). I find them to be more emblematic of the style than anything I've had at Trillium (which is not to say that Trillium beers aren't fantastic - they are - Galaxy Hopped Fort Point was amazing).

I actually prefer both Green and Julius to Heady, which I think is not as good as the hype however revolutionary it may have been (actually I think it being the flagship NEIPA is why it gained such notoriety early on, not due to its being better than the others).

 

[plazola86]

I'm going to bottle mine tonight (Denali, Mosaic, and Mandarina Bavaria) first time attempting, or drinking, an NEIPA. Do you recommend normal carbing or under carbing a little for a smoother mouth feel?

My personal preference is normal carbing. I feel under carbing any style just leaves it a little too dull and under whelming. IMO the body and mouthfeel come from the recipe and water. Some have mentioned they like under carbed so I guess its just a matter of preference. I've had numerous commercial beers of this style and they all seemed carbed like normal. Plus I think the fresh pour and Co2 bubbling just pushes out the aroma, which is a must on these.

 

[Nomofett]

Thanks, I'll stick with regular carbing then