New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[ruascott]

Here's a question....
what are peoples processes for dry-hopping these beers?
a)- Fermentation and dryhop in primary
b)- Fermentation, early dryhop (peak fermentation), then dryhopped in primary
c)- Fermentation, dryhop in primary then rack to keg for second dryhop
d)- fermentation, rack to keg dryhop
e)- fermentation, peak ferm dryhop, rack to keg and dryhop
f)- fermentation, peak fermentation, dryhop in primary, rack to keg for a 3rd dryhop

when you dryhop in primary, do you use a bag?
when you dryhop in the keg, do you you a bag, or a stainless hopper

Obviously, people intend to harvest yeast where possible, and dryhopping makes that difficult if you dont use a hopper or a bag

I do A or B. Then keg. I've also dry hopped in serving keg in past. But honestly couldn't tell much difference.

I'm sure all these elaborate methods of keg hopping / transferring under CO2, etc....do improve the final product. But I think it's likely just on the margin.

You're going to have a great beer with this recipe regardless of method.

 

[JoeMamasIPA]

C at the tail end of fermentation though for the 1st DH

 

[kevink]

Here's a question....
what are peoples processes for dry-hopping these beers?
a)- Fermentation and dryhop in primary
b)- Fermentation, early dryhop (peak fermentation), then dryhopped in primary
c)- Fermentation, dryhop in primary then rack to keg for second dryhop
d)- fermentation, rack to keg dryhop
e)- fermentation, peak ferm dryhop, rack to keg and dryhop
f)- fermentation, peak fermentation, dryhop in primary, rack to keg for a 3rd dryhop

when you dryhop in primary, do you use a bag?
when you dryhop in the keg, do you you a bag, or a stainless hopper

Obviously, people intend to harvest yeast where possible, and dryhopping makes that difficult if you dont use a hopper or a bag

I use A and couldn't imagine improving upon it, but I'm not saying it's impossible. I have also tried B and C. When peak activity dies down after 24-36 hrs (as indicated by Brewpi data), I ramp the temp slowly over 2 days from ferm. temp to 70. When 70 is reached, I dry hop through a custom made port that allows me to blow CO2 into the fermenter while adding pellet dry hops. This creates positive pressure in the fermenter and an outward flow of CO2 through the dry hop port as dry hops are added so there is almost no chance for any O2 to get in. I don't use whole hops as they will carry too much O2 into the beer. It sounds crazy, but the beers are better than ever. I then crash for 2-3 days and transfer into CO2 purged kegs.

 

[mintyice]

Anyone has any experience using golden naked oats on this recipe?, i'm tempting to use it.

Not in this particular recipe, no, but other NEIPA, yes. They can work.

Here's a question....
what are peoples processes for dry-hopping these beers?
a)- Fermentation and dryhop in primary
b)- Fermentation, early dryhop (peak fermentation), then dryhopped in primary
c)- Fermentation, dryhop in primary then rack to keg for second dryhop
d)- fermentation, rack to keg dryhop
e)- fermentation, peak ferm dryhop, rack to keg and dryhop
f)- fermentation, peak fermentation, dryhop in primary, rack to keg for a 3rd dryhop

when you dryhop in primary, do you use a bag?
when you dryhop in the keg, do you you a bag, or a stainless hopper

Obviously, people intend to harvest yeast where possible, and dryhopping makes that difficult if you dont use a hopper or a bag

D. Keg dry hop with loose pellets.

 

[kccoop07]

Anyone has any experience using golden naked oats on this recipe?, i'm tempting to use it.

I just finished this DIPA:

60% 2-Row
20% Flaked Wheat
10% GNO
10% Sugar

8 oz hops at FO
8 oz in fermenter after primary action

First Gen WY1318 didn't want to pass 78% apparent attenuation so it's a little too sweet, but otherwise tasty.

DDH Melcher on the left for inexact comparison.

 

[kevink]

Nice camshaft faucet handle!

 

[kccoop07]

Thanks! We also have a couple shifter knobs and a 50 cal round! (empty I think...)

 

[crusader1612]

I just add all of my dry hops at one time to the primary when the yeast is just past the peak of fermentation or a few days past. I don't add kettle flavor/aroma hops anymore even. I save it all for the dryhop and have been very impressed with the results.

I'm very very intrigued by this.....
so in the example of this recipe.
What kind of hopping would you use?
It suggests a flameout and a "hopstand" of sorts
do you just add all those hops to the dry hope instead?
so a dryhop of maybe 8-9oz's?

Can you give me a recipe to work from? for a NEIPA or PA?

 

[crusader1612]

I use A and couldn't imagine improving upon it, but I'm not saying it's impossible. I have also tried B and C. When peak activity dies down after 24-36 hrs (as indicated by Brewpi data), I ramp the temp slowly over 2 days from ferm. temp to 70. When 70 is reached, I dry hop through a custom made port that allows me to blow CO2 into the fermenter while adding pellet dry hops. This creates positive pressure in the fermenter and an outward flow of CO2 through the dry hop port as dry hops are added so there is almost no chance for any O2 to get in. I don't use whole hops as they will carry too much O2 into the beer. It sounds crazy, but the beers are better than ever. I then crash for 2-3 days and transfer into CO2 purged kegs.

See, this is what I've done in the apst as well., however I've always dryhopped loose, meaning I essentially lose my WY1318 pitch. (although after 5 years I finally sorted a stir plate)




Separate question, has anyone used dry yeasts for these beers?
I've heard of S04 being used to ok effect, but its not an overly popular yeast.

I was thinking something like the Empire Ale or Liberty Bell yeasts from Mangrove Jack

 

[stickyfinger]

Wait....you add no hops at all into the kettle (other than the bittering hops).

I don't see how you'd get much hop flavor from just a dry hop only.

I get a huge, bursting load of flavor and aroma from all-dry-hops. Try it. I hate all of the mess in the kettle too, so this works really great. I keep meaning to do a side-by-side 10 gallon batch, split into half. Half would get maybe 4 oz of hopstand and 8 oz of dry hops. The other half would get just 12 oz of dry hops. That is a very intriguing test.

Over time I've shifted more and more of the hops to the dry hop, as I love that fresh, super intense hoppiness that dry hopping give you. I found that I was making as good of or better beers (or I think I am) with more and more dry hops and less and less kettle hops.

I kind of wish I had known this before I bought my counterflow chiller. I'd get a plate chiller if I could do it over and just use hop extract for bittering and all character hops in the dry hop.

 

[stickyfinger]

I use A and couldn't imagine improving upon it, but I'm not saying it's impossible. I have also tried B and C. When peak activity dies down after 24-36 hrs (as indicated by Brewpi data), I ramp the temp slowly over 2 days from ferm. temp to 70. When 70 is reached, I dry hop through a custom made port that allows me to blow CO2 into the fermenter while adding pellet dry hops. This creates positive pressure in the fermenter and an outward flow of CO2 through the dry hop port as dry hops are added so there is almost no chance for any O2 to get in. I don't use whole hops as they will carry too much O2 into the beer. It sounds crazy, but the beers are better than ever. I then crash for 2-3 days and transfer into CO2 purged kegs.

Are you saying you noticed a difference between beers that got a dry hop in primary and beers that got a dry hop through your CO2-port-setup? If so, I would consider setting that up. Do you have a picture?

 

[stickyfinger]

I'm very very intrigued by this.....
so in the example of this recipe.
What kind of hopping would you use?
It suggests a flameout and a "hopstand" of sorts
do you just add all those hops to the dry hope instead?
so a dryhop of maybe 8-9oz's?

Can you give me a recipe to work from? for a NEIPA or PA?

I don't really pay attention to the amounts or times on the hopping schedule on any IPA recipes. I just note the varieties used and in what ratio.

I bitter to a calculated value of somewhere between 20-30 IBUs, usually 20 IBUs with something like Warrior, Horizon, or Magnum. I don't want a lot of bitter bite in my IPA a lot of the time, and the dry hop can give some pretty big bitterness if you use all of the flavor/aroma hops in it. I stopped adding any gypsum, as I prefer the less dry taste that very low sulfate produces, at least in my brewing process. I usually boost the chloride up to 50-100. Again, the massive dryhop lends to a much dryer flavor than 20 IBUs indicates, as it has a lot of tannins and such, etc.

I then get it fermenting and wait until the krausen is just dropping or a few days later depending on how busy I am. I add anywhere from 6-16 oz of dry hops to the primary when the krausen is dropping. I add fewer hops if I want a more subdued character and more if I want it blowing my hair back. I use the ratio the recipe used, paying more attention to the dryhop information than the hopstand information. I slowly raise the temp up from 67 to 72, 1 degree per day or so if I think it is starting to die down.

I leave the dry hops anywhere from 5-21 days, usually around 5-10. I swirl the carboy a couple times every day to help get the hop layer on top to contact the beer. I cold crash for 1-3 days to drop the hop layer down to the bottom of the carboy and then rack to a fully-purged keg. (Toying with the idea of trying keg-conditioning with yeast and priming sugar sometime soon to see if the hoppiness will last longer than 6-7 weeks in the keg.)

I may be wasting some hops here. However, I've made several IPAs with lots of hopstand hops that just didn't impress me much, so I figure I'm getting a lot more out of the hops in the dryhop than I would have in the hopstand, so I feel good about wasting a few hops. I tried all different temps and controlled it really well, as I have an E-HERMS, but I never really was super impressed with adding hops to the kettle compared with a massive dryhop.

For this NE IPA of the Braufessors, I'd go with 12 oz in the primary.(I think I decided to try that b/c Brau uses a total of 12 oz in his recipe for 6 gallons?) My favorite so far is the 1:1:1 Citra:Mosaic:Galaxy. I might add more than 12 oz of hops that are more subdued than the Citra, Mosaic, Galaxy, Nelsons, etc. of the world.

If you try it out, let me know how you think it compares. I might be wasting hops, but I certainly have enjoyed the results.

 

[stickyfinger]

See, this is what I've done in the apst as well., however I've always dryhopped loose, meaning I essentially lose my WY1318 pitch. (although after 5 years I finally sorted a stir plate)

Separate question, has anyone used dry yeasts for these beers?
I've heard of S04 being used to ok effect, but its not an overly popular yeast.

I was thinking something like the Empire Ale or Liberty Bell yeasts from Mangrove Jack

I always hated collecting yeast from a hoppy, truby mess so I started using Brulosopher's yeast harvesting method:

http://brulosophy.com/methods/yeast-harvesting/

I absolutely love it!! I use the mrmalty calculator though to make sure I am getting more yeast than the homebrewdad calculator probably gives. Both seem to work for people though. I save the harvested yeast in sanitized mason jars with plastic screw-on lids.

The only problem with Conan is that it may need to go through one batch of beer before you should start saving it to ensure that it attenuates well. The jury is still out on that for me using anything other than WLP095, as I haven't used any of the other Conan-like strains, such as GY (until right now), Omega, etc. In that case, I would use Brau's advice of growing up a clean batch of yeast in a blond ale or something without dry hopping and then start using that saved yeast as needed to grow up over-growth yeast for the harvesting method.

I've used US-05 in NE IPA, and it worked very well. I just prefer the a yeast that leaves the beer less crisp and bitter. I am also a bit leery of US-05 now after it ruined a barleywine I made. I dry hopped the barleywine when it was tasting absolutely amazing, and after I kegged it and sampled it, it was a total diacetyl bomb. Either I somehow contaminated it with the dry hop or the weird effect Brau talked about took place where the yeast and hops interacted to create a diacetyl-bomb.

 

[murphyslaw]

I always hated collecting yeast from a hoppy, truby mess so I started using Brulosopher's yeast harvesting method:

http://brulosophy.com/methods/yeast-harvesting/

I absolutely love it!! I use the mrmalty calculator though to make sure I am getting more yeast than the homebrewdad calculator probably gives. Both seem to work for people though. I save the harvested yeast in sanitized mason jars with plastic screw-on lids.

The only problem with Conan is that it may need to go through one batch of beer before you should start saving it to ensure that it attenuates well. The jury is still out on that for me using anything other than WLP095, as I haven't used any of the other Conan-like strains, such as GY (until right now), Omega, etc. In that case, I would use Brau's advice of growing up a clean batch of yeast in a blond ale or something without dry hopping and then start using that saved yeast as needed to grow up over-growth yeast for the harvesting method.

I've used US-05 in NE IPA, and it worked very well. I just prefer the a yeast that leaves the beer less crisp and bitter. I am also a bit leery of US-05 now after it ruined a barleywine I made. I dry hopped the barleywine when it was tasting absolutely amazing, and after I kegged it and sampled it, it was a total diacetyl bomb. Either I somehow contaminated it with the dry hop or the weird effect Brau talked about took place where the yeast and hops interacted to create a diacetyl-bomb.

Have people found that 1st generation Conan does not ferment down enough even when using a yeast calculator?

I ask because some on this thread have suggested that you don't need as much yeast as the calculators call for, instead saying a 1L starter is fine. I wonder whether its just a matter of those people under pitching the first brew, then collecting a bunch of unmeasured slurry that has more cells than the original package.

 

[EndOfLine]

Yeah, that is strange.... I use 05 a lot and have not gotten diacetyl after dryhopping. However, the small chance it may scares me.... and 05 has been super dusty recently so I am using cal 001 next.

 

[crusader1612]

I always hated collecting yeast from a hoppy, truby mess so I started using Brulosopher's yeast harvesting method:

http://brulosophy.com/methods/yeast-harvesting/

I absolutely love it!! I use the mrmalty calculator though to make sure I am getting more yeast than the homebrewdad calculator probably gives. Both seem to work for people though. I save the harvested yeast in sanitized mason jars with plastic screw-on lids.

The only problem with Conan is that it may need to go through one batch of beer before you should start saving it to ensure that it attenuates well. The jury is still out on that for me using anything other than WLP095, as I haven't used any of the other Conan-like strains, such as GY (until right now), Omega, etc. In that case, I would use Brau's advice of growing up a clean batch of yeast in a blond ale or something without dry hopping and then start using that saved yeast as needed to grow up over-growth yeast for the harvesting method.

I've used US-05 in NE IPA, and it worked very well. I just prefer the a yeast that leaves the beer less crisp and bitter. I am also a bit leery of US-05 now after it ruined a barleywine I made. I dry hopped the barleywine when it was tasting absolutely amazing, and after I kegged it and sampled it, it was a total diacetyl bomb. Either I somehow contaminated it with the dry hop or the weird effect Brau talked about took place where the yeast and hops interacted to create a diacetyl-bomb.

Must've missed that article from Marshall..... I'll take a look.

12 oz dryhopping.... holy crap. might give it a crack

 

[stickyfinger]

Have people found that 1st generation Conan does not ferment down enough even when using a yeast calculator?

I ask because some on this thread have suggested that you don't need as much yeast as the calculators call for, instead saying a 1L starter is fine. I wonder whether its just a matter of those people under pitching the first brew, then collecting a bunch of unmeasured slurry that has more cells than the original package.

I used mrmalty to ferment a batch of NE IPA using Giga Yeast, and my first hydrometer sample was surprisingly high. I have a feeling it will be a little high when I go to keg it. That was after building it up in 1L and then 2-3L, so I think it is hit or miss with getting poor attenuation.

 

[sheikyerbouti]

However, I've made several IPAs with lots of hopstand hops that just didn't impress me much, so I figure I'm getting a lot more out of the hops in the dryhop than I would have in the hopstand, so I feel good about wasting a few hops.

I agree 100%. I've tried varying amounts of hops, time steeped and temperature and I am consistently underwhelmed with hopstands...just my experience.

 

[olotti]

I think one thing that helps first gen Conan is lower mash temp and using dextrose. My first batch of Conan I made a starter then I mashed the beer at like 150 and used 1/2lb of dextrose in the boil to help with attenuation. Got it down to 1.010. next batch I deleted the dextrose mashed at 152 and it hit 1.014 or 1.012 can't remember but it was spot on to what beersmith calculated. So far I've never not had it hit projected fg.

 

[stickyfinger]

I used mrmalty to ferment a batch of NE IPA using Giga Yeast, and my first hydrometer sample was surprisingly high. I have a feeling it will be a little high when I go to keg it. That was after building it up in 1L and then 2-3L, so I think it is hit or miss with getting poor attenuation.

ok, did a split batch with gigayeast. one batch was 0.8% more abv than the other how is that possible? i eye-balled splitting a yeast starter between them. both were temp controlled! both shaken for O2. maybe i need to go back to using pure O2 for oxygen.

having said that, the less attenuated batch tastes drier. it was the citra-galaxy batch. very intense and edgy. the more attenuated was the citra-simcoe-ctz. it is rounder, smoother. go figure! have others found citra to have a more drying effect in dryhop?

i really want to do a split batch, half hopstand-dryhop and half dryhop only. what hop combo to use? leaning toward citra-galaxy right now. what ratio for the hopstand to dryhop in the hopstand-dryhop batch? thinking of 6 oz hopstand and 6 oz dryhop in one batch and 12 oz dryhop in the other with wlp095 in both. maybe 5 oz hopstand and 7 oz dryhop in the hopstand-dryhop batch?

 

[stickyfinger]

I think one thing that helps first gen Conan is lower mash temp and using dextrose. My first batch of Conan I made a starter then I mashed the beer at like 150 and used 1/2lb of dextrose in the boil to help with attenuation. Got it down to 1.010. next batch I deleted the dextrose mashed at 152 and it hit 1.014 or 1.012 can't remember but it was spot on to what beersmith calculated. So far I've never not had it hit projected fg.

which strain of Conan?

 

[stickyfinger]

Can someone tell me if WLP095, Burlington ale is Conan? Is it the immediate ancestor to Conan? Kimmich took WLP095 and warped it into Conan? Seems very similar to GY Vermont IPA to me but less finicky

 

[olotti]

which strain of Conan?

Bought from farmhouse I believe it's the oly-52 Vermont ale strain they have. I will say to as far as this peach thing with Conan the only time I ever got that was from the first starter, it def had an intense fruity aroma whereas now I don't even get any of that and I like everyone else here heavily hop my IPAs so I wouldn't expect to get this delicate peachy aroma I figure it'll get covered up by the hops anyway. I like the yeast though it's like a less floccing version of 05, 001 for me at this point. If I want some thing super clean I use 05 but otherwise I use my harvested Conan.

 

[olotti]

Can someone tell me if WLP095, Burlington ale is Conan? Is it the immediate ancestor to Conan? Kimmich took WLP095 and warped it into Conan? Seems very similar to GY Vermont IPA to me but less finicky

There was speculation that it's the magic hat strain and not a Conan derivative but since they won't tell us no one really knows for sure.

 

[EndOfLine]

ok, did a split batch with gigayeast. one batch was 0.8% more abv than the other how is that possible? i eye-balled splitting a yeast starter between them. both were temp controlled! both shaken for O2. maybe i need to go back to using pure O2 for oxygen.

having said that, the less attenuated batch tastes drier. it was the citra-galaxy batch. very intense and edgy. the more attenuated was the citra-simcoe-ctz. it is rounder, smoother. go figure! have others found citra to have a more drying effect in dryhop?

i really want to do a split batch, half hopstand-dryhop and half dryhop only. what hop combo to use? leaning toward citra-galaxy right now. what ratio for the hopstand to dryhop in the hopstand-dryhop batch? thinking of 6 oz hopstand and 6 oz dryhop in one batch and 12 oz dryhop in the other with wlp095 in both. maybe 5 oz hopstand and 7 oz dryhop in the hopstand-dryhop batch?

I think that that sounds great. It will be a more intense version of the hopstand vs dry hop xbmt from Brulopher.

Yeast steals so much hop oil during fermentation.... greedy bastards

 

[JJ900]

I was told by LHBS that 095 is the ancestor of Conan.

 

[kevink]

I agree 100%. I've tried varying amounts of hops, time steeped and temperature and I am consistently underwhelmed with hopstands...just my experience.

For one batch, I put all 3 lbs of hops in the 16 gallon hop stand and didn't dry hop at all instead of doing both as usual. The beer sucked in comparison (but was still better than anything you could easily buy). I would like to try no kettle hops, except for extract at the beginning of the boil for a little IBUs only, and shift all of the other hops to the dry hop. Has anyone tried this?

 

[stickyfinger]

For one batch, I put all 3 lbs of hops in the 16 gallon hop stand and didn't dry hop at all instead of doing both as usual. The beer sucked in comparison (but was still better than anything you could easily buy). I would like to try no kettle hops, except for extract at the beginning of the boil for a little IBUs only, and shift all of the other hops to the dry hop. Has anyone tried this?

dude, check my post above. i do ONLY bittering hops in the kettle and ALL character hops in the dryhop. DO IT!!!!

 

[stickyfinger]

I was told by LHBS that 095 is the ancestor of Conan.

This may be true. Right now I am HEAVILY. leaning toward WLP095 for this beer. White Labs quality, soft mouthfeel, good attenuation, not finicky, superb. I think it is a GREAT strain for a house yeast

 

[kevink]

Are you saying you noticed a difference between beers that got a dry hop in primary and beers that got a dry hop through your CO2-port-setup? If so, I would consider setting that up. Do you have a picture?

The "CO2 port" is on the primary. Every new method to minimize O2, including the dry hopping port, has resulted in much better beer.

 

[schematix]

layer the hops flavors... doing just 1 or 2 hopping method will lead to a lame beer.

Add bittering hops... add middle hops, late hops (a lot) and dry hops (a lot). An IPA needs them all in the right proportions.

 

[stickyfinger]

Bought from farmhouse I believe it's the oly-52 Vermont ale strain they have. I will say to as far as this peach thing with Conan the only time I ever got that was from the first starter, it def had an intense fruity aroma whereas now I don't even get any of that and I like everyone else here heavily hop my IPAs so I wouldn't expect to get this delicate peachy aroma I figure it'll get covered up by the hops anyway. I like the yeast though it's like a less floccing version of 05, 001 for me at this point. If I want some thing super clean I use 05 but otherwise I use my harvested Conan.

Never have gotten peach from Omega, Giga Yeast or WLP095. WY1318 was huge peach/apricot though. Maybe I need to do a WY1318 vs WLP095 smackdown splitbatch?

Is it just me or is this thread turning you into an All-IPA/All-NE IPA brewer?! ****e!!!!!!

 

[stickyfinger]

The "CO2 port" is on the primary. Every new method to minimize O2, including the dry hopping port, has resulted in much better beer.

post pictures! is it all in a 6.5 rubber carboy bung?

 

[stickyfinger]

layer the hops flavors... doing just 1 or 2 hopping method will lead to a lame beer.

Add bittering hops... add middle hops, late hops (a lot) and dry hops (a lot). An IPA needs them all in the right proportions.

all dry-hops is pretty awesome, dude. layer the varietals, maybe not the methods

 

[stickyfinger]

Come on, "****e" is verboten?!

 

[stickyfinger]

This is the best thread on HBT! OK, I've had some leftover primary dregs tonight!

 

[olotti]

This is the best thread on HBT! OK, I've had some leftover primary dregs tonight!

I use 1318 a lot also and it is very fruit forward but the one thing with 1318 is will give you that exact turbid trillium look but if to much yeast is left it gives a very spicy tart taste a thing I have tasted also in trillium beers it's very distinct. It's a great yeast fro these beers as it adds to the tropical fruity flavor but it can overpower it if not cold crashed long enough for enough yeast to drop out

 

[kevink]

post pictures! is it all in a 6.5 rubber carboy bung?

You could easily do it in a carboy, but I do it in a 15 gallon conical through a 3" tri clover fitting.

 

[stickyfinger]

I use 1318 a lot also and it is very fruit forward but the one thing with 1318 is will give you that exact turbid trillium look but if to much yeast is left it gives a very spicy tart taste a thing I have tasted also in trillium beers it's very distinct. It's a great yeast fro these beers as it adds to the tropical fruity flavor but it can overpower it if not cold crashed long enough for enough yeast to drop out

very interesting. how long of a cold crash is needed to remove the tart character? i've used it only once.

 

[stickyfinger]

You could easily do it in a carboy, but I do it in a 15 gallon conical through a 3" tri clover fitting.

not much room in a 6.5 bung for two holes, but i'll look into it