New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[whovous]

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Can you suggest a dry yeast for this recipe? I am still pretty much a newb and nervous about moving to liquid yeast.

 

[Braufessor]

how high is it ok for calcium? to get 100/180 sulfate/chloride I have a calcium level well above 100. Thanks

I don't know if I personally have ever went over 150 on calcium. I am sure some people have. But, I have had 125 for sure and did not notice anything adverser that I recall. That was on beers where I was pushing higher sulfate levels though.

Generally though, I am more in the 65/130 range and that brings my calcium in at 85-95 range.

 

[Braufessor]

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Can you suggest a dry yeast for this recipe? I am still pretty much a newb and nervous about moving to liquid yeast.

Perhaps S04 for dry.

Also, Gigayeast Vermont IPA is a "Double Pitch" liquid yeast, so if making a starter was a concern, this would be a good way to go in liquid form.

 

[PeteNMA]

Don't forget that a lot of the calcium is precipitated out in the mash.

And seriously, don't worry too much about the absolute numbers. The only place where we really worry about ion concentrations in home brewing is in the water. Ions disappear all over the place as we mash, sparge and boil. There probably are some dedicated folks out there who have the final ion concentrations in the beer analysed, but they are the minority.

 

[brewski09]

With extract - you don't need to worry about pH as you are not mashing. You may know the mineral content of the water you are using, but you really don't know about the mineral content of the water that was used to make the extract. So, there is a certain amount of minerals already present in the extract itself. It might be high, it might be low - but you don't know what it is. So, adding on top of it is a bit of a guessing game.

That said - you can absolutely add minerals to the boil kettle for the purpose of flavor/perception. You can even add to finished beer to get a feel for additions. If my mineral additions are going to affect my pH in a way that is too extreme, I will add some of them to the boil kettle. If I was adding to extract, I would start maybe on the lower side a bit...... say 100 chloride and 50 sulfate for instance and see what you think. You can raise or lower on future batches based on your preferences.

Thanks. I think I'll add to bottles like previously suggested and see what works for my process and my tastes. I tend to use the same extract when I do brew extract so I'll assume the water profile is the same or very close for every batch they do and work that way until proven otherwise.

 

[brewski09]

Subscribed.

Can you suggest a dry yeast for this recipe? I am still pretty much a newb and nervous about moving to liquid yeast.

There is nothing like Conan yeast. The double pitch is a great way to go so you don't have to make a starter. Another great way to make a starter is to make a low gravity beer like 1.040 starting gravity or less (you can also do a smaller batch). It also gives you a chance to learn the yeast. Using liquid yeast (at times at least) opens up so many brewing doors for you if you have only used dry before. For the record, I keep a few dry yeasts in my Arsenal for easy brew days.

 

[whovous]

There is nothing like Conan yeast. The double pitch is a great way to go so you don't have to make a starter. Another great way to make a starter is to make a low gravity beer like 1.040 starting gravity or less (you can also do a smaller batch). It also gives you a chance to learn the yeast. Using liquid yeast (at times at least) opens up so many brewing doors for you if you have only used dry before. For the record, I keep a few dry yeasts in my Arsenal for easy brew days.

I do 2.5 gallon batches, so I guess that would mean a quadruple pitch. Does that raise any issues?

 

[PeteNMA]

Double pitch is just a marketing term. All it really means is that they package twice as many cells as the typical liquid yeast providers such as Wyeast and White Labs.

If you check out a pitching rate calculator (eg MrMalty), you'll see that you need about 100-100bn cells for a 2.5 gallon batch at 1.055. Depending on the viability of the yeast when you receive and actually use it, you will not be overpitching by much if at all based on 200bn packaged cells.

 

[cpapallo]

Been using a recipe similar to yours for all my Northeast Style beers since the summer and could not be happier. Yours look clearer than mine, but I'm absolutely 100% okay with the haze since it is found in so many beers up here. The base, both your recipe and the variation I have been using, with those yeasts, make for a very balanced beer that lets the hops be the "star of the show." These are two pictures of my Galaxy Pale Ale.

Pictures attached.

 

[brewski09]

Double pitch is just a marketing term. All it really means is that they package twice as many cells as the typical liquid yeast providers such as Wyeast and White Labs.

If you check out a pitching rate calculator (eg MrMalty), you'll see that you need about 100-100bn cells for a 2.5 gallon batch at 1.055. Depending on the viability of the yeast when you receive and actually use it, you will not be overpitching by much if at all based on 200bn packaged cells.

What he said about the pitching rate

 

[lilbova3]

Good stuff, I'm going to try and make my next IPA look like OJ.

 

[hezagenius]

I'm looking to start with distilled and build up the profile from there. I'm using the Bru'n spreadsheet and I'll be damned if I can get the adjustments figured out. I started with Braufessor's profile from the first post and then changed the sulfate and chloride to 100/180. I can nail 5 of the 6 numbers but always end up with 1 number that is way off. Of the 6 numbers to dial in, which one is the least important? Or is there some simpler way to adjust the profile?

 

[whovous]

I'm looking to start with distilled and build up the profile from there. I'm using the Bru'n spreadsheet and I'll be damned if I can get the adjustments figured out. I started with Braufessor's profile from the first post and then changed the sulfate and chloride to 100/180. I can nail 5 of the 6 numbers but always end up with 1 number that is way off. Of the 6 numbers to dial in, which one is the least important? Or is there some simpler way to adjust the profile?

That is easy. Completely ignore bicarbonate. And when it gives you a negative number for same, ignore that, too. That is a glitch in the program, not a clue that you've just invented negative salt.

 

[Braufessor]

That is easy. Completely ignore bicarbonate. And when it gives you a negative number for same, ignore that, too. That is a glitch in the program, not a clue that you've just invented negative salt.

I agree - if I was going to ignore a number..... it would have to be bicarbonate - ESPECIALLY if using RO. My tap water is high in bicarbonate naturally, and thus there is some hardness to the profile when I use 80% RO. However, if I was starting with 100% RO, I would never try to add bicarbonate to it.

 

[bg1414]

with all the wheat and oats beersmith keeps giving me high final gravity around 1.018. Will the attenuation from the yeast, i'm using 1318, be higher than expected in beersmith? I'd like the fg to be a touch lower.

 

[Braufessor]

I don't use 1318 - so can't tell you for sure. But mine always finishes right in the 1.011-1.012 range (and iBrewmaster usually predict higher than that for me as well). Having good, active starter and keeping fermentation temps in a good range will have a lot to do with your finishing gravity.

 

[hezagenius]

I agree - if I was going to ignore a number..... it would have to be bicarbonate - ESPECIALLY if using RO. My tap water is high in bicarbonate naturally, and thus there is some hardness to the profile when I use 80% RO. However, if I was starting with 100% RO, I would never try to add bicarbonate to it.

OK, so by ignoring bicarb, I can get within a few ppm of each of the other 5 numbers in Bru'n. I'm using gypsum, epsom salt, canning salt and calcium chloride. That leaves my bicarb number at zero. Is that OK?

Is it safe to assume that RO water basically has 0 minerals in it?

 

[Braufessor]

OK, so by ignoring bicarb, I can get within a few ppm of each of the other 5 numbers in Bru'n. I'm using gypsum, epsom salt, canning salt and calcium chloride. That leaves my bicarb number at zero. Is that OK?

Is it safe to assume that RO water basically has 0 minerals in it?

That sounds like a good place to start. RO water does not have zero minerals - but it is quite low and for practical purposes it is basically zero. I think it should give you the mineral level of RO in B'run water. When you select your dilution % (100) and type of water (RO) it should give you your starting water profile....... that is what is in RO water. All numbers will be low, but not zero.

Also - remember the first thing you are really targeting is mash pH. So make sure that is where it needs to be. Personally, I have been targeting 5.40-5.45 and I have liked the results.

 

[PeteNMA]

Id skip the Epsom and canning salt. Just add gypsum to hit your sulfate number and calcium chloride to hit your chloride number.

The malt will provide magnesium in sufficient quantity, and there's really no need to add sodium either.

Measure your mash pH and adjust if neede using lactic acid.

 

[hezagenius]

OK, I used gypsum to hit the sulfate and calcium chloride to hit the chloride. And then used baking soda to raise the pH to 5.4. That puts my calcium at 143. Is that too high for this beer?

 

[PeteNMA]

Don't add baking soda. If you're using RO water you will likely need to add some acid to drop the pH down

 

[hezagenius]

What about with distilled water? Is there an advantage to using RO over distilled?

 

[Braufessor]

OK, I used gypsum to hit the sulfate and calcium chloride to hit the chloride. And then used baking soda to raise the pH to 5.4. That puts my calcium at 143. Is that too high for this beer?

Here is a thought - could you add less CaCl and gypsum to the mash - this would increase your mash pH without needing to use baking soda at all. Then, take the minerals you are no longer adding to the mash, and just throw them in the boil kettle.

One of the reasons I use a bit of epsom and salt is that it is a way to get sulfate and chloride without any calcium. I also think some sodium rounds out the feel of the beer a bit.

 

[Braufessor]

What about with distilled water? Is there an advantage to using RO over distilled?

Not if you are trying to increase the pH up.....

In my opinion there is zero advantage to distilled water over RO - just costs more.

 

[hezagenius]

I'm new to the water chemistry aspect of brewing. Is getting the pH dialed in the primary concern for the mash? And then having the minerals dialed in for the boil?

 

[Braufessor]

I'm new to the water chemistry aspect of brewing. Is getting the pH dialed in the primary concern for the mash? And then having the minerals dialed in for the boil?

Yes - pH is #1
From there the various minerals can add to/ take away from various aspects of the beers flavor and perception. Minor changes will probably be imperceptible. However, major shifts can give the same beer a different flavor/feel.

 

[hezagenius]

Is there anything wrong with not adding any minerals during the mash and just using acid to reduce the pH for the mash. And then add all the minerals during the boil?

 

[Braufessor]

Is there anything wrong with not adding any minerals during the mash and just using acid to reduce the pH for the mash. And then add all the minerals during the boil?

nope - that is fine too. The only "real" purpose of the minerals in the mash for the most part is in regard to pH. putting the minerals in the kettle in the way of flavor should be perfectly fine I would think.... I have not done it that way, so I can't say for sure..... but i see no major theoretical reason it would not work out.

 

[whovous]

Is there anything wrong with not adding any minerals during the mash and just using acid to reduce the pH for the mash. And then add all the minerals during the boil?

I may have you confused with someone else, but if you are using RO water, then you have as close to no minerals at all in your water as it is possible for us simple mortals to get. If so, then I think you need to target a water profile of some sort.

And, if I can add to the confusion: If you are using RO water, the pH of that water is probably close to or the same as the pH of the tap water you used to make the RO water.

However, and this is where I get even more confused, the pH of your RO water really does not matter anyway, because of the lack of bufffers in your water. At this point I've stepped over the line of my knowledge, and I cannot explain that at all. Would love it if someone else could and would.

 

[Braufessor]

I am in the process of putting together a "what do I do if I don't do water chemistry" profile. I will get it together in the next couple hours and post to bottom of original recipe - it will just be a "start with 100% RO" and then I will show some general additions in both grams/gallon and tsp/gallon so that people have at least somewhere to start that will be simple and straight forward.