New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[Braufessor]

A "different" balance of chloride/sulfate also does wonders for mouthfeel. Try targeting about 180ppm chloride and 100ppm sulfate.

+1 for sure - should have included that too.

I will give those numbers a try - maybe even this week. Gonna brew another batch tomorrow as normal. I will try to get a second batch in this week with those numbers to put them head to head.

 

[Braufessor]

Love the look of your beers. I just got in a pack of Conan from omega and plan on making a starter for a beer next week, trying a recipe I've made before but this time using the Conan and its citra, mosaic and simcoe with warrior for bittering. What would you say are the ideal ferment temps for Conan? My basement is where I ferment everything and it's ambient is 62 right now so I usually pitch just below that and let it free rise and according to the fermometers I'm usually at 68 during peak fermentation then I'll move the carboy upstairs where it's 71 to finish out, and I dry hop in primary usually at day 10 then cold crash at day 14 for 2-4 days.

That is about exactly what I do for fermenting temps. Only difference is I tend to do a first dry hop around day 5 or 6, and then transfer to the dry hopping keg for dry hop #2 around day 12 - 14. That second dry hop is just 2-3 days and I jump to serving keg.

 

[arnobg]

I'm very interested in trying this recipe, that first photo looks absolutely beautiful! What can I expect from the taste/flavor of this beer, is there anything commercially available to compare it to besides the rare Treehouse styles etc. that I can't get my hands on?

If I can't get my hands on some Conan, what would be the next best choice? I can get my hands on any White Labs or Wyeast or dry yeast easily.

 

[PeteNMA]

If you can't get Conan then Wyeast 1318 is a great choice

 

[Braufessor]

I'm very interested in trying this recipe, that first photo looks absolutely beautiful! What can I expect from the taste/flavor of this beer, is there anything commercially available to compare it to besides the rare Treehouse styles etc. that I can't get my hands on?

If I can't get my hands on some Conan, what would be the next best choice? I can get my hands on any White Labs or Wyeast or dry yeast easily.

Where are you located? Might be able to suggest something comparable.

What to expect? Well, if I were to describe beers like this and the ones I brew.... I guess I would first point out a couple ways they are different. I think "in general" the basic "west coast" IPA is obviously clear. I think they are drier. I think the hops in a regular IPA tend to be crisper, more assertive, a more pronounced bitterness.

I would say an IPA to this style tends to be full as far as mouthfeel. There is less bitterness, but perhaps more hop flavor and aroma. The hops tend to be less assertive and sharp but, perhaps more rounded. Fruity, tropical, juicy (at least if you are using hops like Citra, Galaxy and Mosaic). Some of the best examples I have had (commercial and home-brewed) are almost like a glass of orange juice or grapefruit juice...... but with hops..... which may or may not make any sense.

Yeast - you can also look for giga yeast version of Conan(vermont IPA) and The Yeast Bay - Vermont Ale. Lots of places have these mail order. Omega Yeast DIPA Yeast 052 I think is conan also.

1318 is a yeast a lot of people use on beers like this. Denny's Favorite 50 might be another yeast that would work in a beer like this.

 

[singybrue]

Braufessor-How long is your flame out steep before dropping to 160 for the whirlpool?
Also, what volume of CO are you carbing at?

 

[Braufessor]

Braufessor-How long is your flame out steep before dropping to 160 for the whirlpool?
Also, what volume of CO are you carbing at?

Not long.... I throw the first 3 ounces of hops in at flameout, and get the chiller going within a couple minutes.... only takes another couple minutes to hit 160 or so..... then I throw the other 3 ounces in. Maybe 5-7 minutes is all. Then I leave it set for 30-40 minutes stirring it up every 5-10 minutes.

Carbonation.... not positive on the precise volumes. But, likely in the 2-2.3 range - something that leaves the beer without any CO2 bite at all. Smoother/rounded. Kind of like a nice stout.

 

[sdenue57]

I haven't had Treehouse or Trillium yet, but I have had the usual VT suspects. Heady, HF, and Fiddlehead. All delicious beers with a great flavor and soft mouthfeel. I'm gonna try out this recipe. Subscribed!

 

[kaz4121]

You can play around with color a bit too..... the darker one was same grain bill plus an additional 1/4 lb of Cara 35. The lighter one was same with an additional 1/4 lb of Cara 15. In my recipe, this would equate to the same amount as the Honey Malt and the Wheat.

What SRM is this?

 

[bg1414]

+1 for sure - should have included that too.

I will give those numbers a try - maybe even this week. Gonna brew another batch tomorrow as normal. I will try to get a second batch in this week with those numbers to put them head to head.

if you use these numbers please post results on how it differs from you numbers. Thanks!

 

[Braufessor]

What SRM is this?

Lighter one is 4.0-4.5. Darker one is 5.5-6.0 range.

 

[Wolfbayne]

Nice looking recipe.

 

[olotti]

+1 for sure - should have included that too.

I will give those numbers a try - maybe even this week. Gonna brew another batch tomorrow as normal. I will try to get a second batch in this week with those numbers to put them head to head.

What do you think of this water profile to achieve what this style, I'm also using Conan strain for the first time in this ipa also. Maybe doing one to many things at once ie new water profile and new yeast but oh well, I don't have time to brew control batches, lol, who does. Anyway I use 100% RO water for mash and sparge.

Ca- 99.6
Mg- 0
Na- 0
Sulfate- 67
Chl- 128
Bicarb- 1
mash pH- 5.4

What do you think the outcome would be if the numbers specifically sulfate and chloride were increased to the 100/180 as the other poster mentioned.

 

[PeteNMA]

I like the higher chloride level as it makes for a bigger mouthfeel. I also like to push the sulfate up in tandem as it keeps some crispness in the hops flavour. The overwhelming effect is still of juicy hops, just a little more defined.

I arrived at those numbers by carefully measuring and dosing the relevant salts into finished beer, then estimating appropriate liquor ion concentrations and doing a couple of test brews to really narrow it down.

 

[olotti]

I like the higher chloride level as it makes for a bigger mouthfeel. I also like to push the sulfate up in tandem as it keeps some crispness in the hops flavour. The overwhelming effect is still of juicy hops, just a little more defined.

I arrived at those numbers by carefully measuring and dosing the relevant salts into finished beer, then estimating appropriate liquor ion concentrations and doing a couple of test brews to really narrow it down.

Well I like this idea more especially since you took such a scientific and analytical approach to it, not just throwing stuff in until you get the desired effect. Maybe I'll brew my numbers this batch then run another ipa using conan and then your numbers and hopefully they'll be brewed close enough that I'll be able to do side by side tastings to really taste the effect.

 

[KirkMN]

I'm going to brew this tomorrow but was thinking of a second batch with a different hop combination. Do you have any good similar recipes using Nelson Sauvin or other similar tropical hops?

I had a TG PsuedoSue for the first time yesterday and damn did that have a fantastic nose on it. Best smelling beer I've ever had. It almost smelled a bit like it had Nelson in it. This beer was great.

Last night I was able to get a can of Heady Topper that I want to grow up the yeast in it just to see how similar it is to the Omega DIPA "Vermont" yeast.

 

[PeteNMA]

Well I like this idea more especially since you took such a scientific and analytical approach to it, not just throwing stuff in until you get the desired effect. Maybe I'll brew my numbers this batch then run another ipa using conan and then your numbers and hopefully they'll be brewed close enough that I'll be able to do side by side tastings to really taste the effect.

One of my many professional hats is analytical chemist, so measuring stuff to be able to repeat it is a forte.

 

[olotti]

One of my many professional hats is analytical chemist, so measuring stuff to be able to repeat it is a forte.

Nice. So braufessors water profile is similar to yours, more chloride than sulfate but just not as high. I've been doing it the other way with moe sulfate and less chloride to get a cleaner, crisper hop presence so this should be interesting for comparisons sake. Do you feel the higher chloride lends to the creamy mouthfeel along with other things like yeast, mash temp, grain bill adjuncts like oats or wheat.

 

[PeteNMA]

The chloride makes a big difference to the mouthfeel in my experience. The high sulfate and low chloride profile is well established and makes great beer, but you need to lean heavily on the malt bill to bring the mouthfeel.

 

[olotti]

The chloride makes a big difference to the mouthfeel in my experience. The high sulfate and low chloride profile is well established and makes great beer, but you need to lean heavily on the malt bill to bring the mouthfeel.

It's nice to have options I see based on water profile. I'm seeing I can use the same grain bil and really alter mouthfeel by water adjustments. Clean and crisp is higher sulfate and low chloride and fuller mouthfeel and creaminess with higher chloride and lower sulfate. Am I looking at this right even with mash temps still in the 150 range ? Almost 2 yrs into ag being and I love that I'm learning stuff all the time although I just got into water chemistry thanks to yooper and it's completely changed my beers. It's no joke water chemistry matters.

 

[Braufessor]

I'm going to brew this tomorrow but was thinking of a second batch with a different hop combination. Do you have any good similar recipes using Nelson Sauvin or other similar tropical hops?

I had a TG PsuedoSue for the first time yesterday and damn did that have a fantastic nose on it. Best smelling beer I've ever had. It almost smelled a bit like it had Nelson in it. This beer was great.

Last night I was able to get a can of Heady Topper that I want to grow up the yeast in it just to see how similar it is to the Omega DIPA "Vermont" yeast.

I have not used Nelson, but I would think it would work very well in a beer like this. Like I said - I tend to use 4 additions, 3 ounces each and adjust the amts. of each to the hops I want to emphasize. I have had a few beers that were straight Nelson and I liked them. Have seen a couple that used Galaxy as a combo..... But, I don't have much personal experience with it as a hop.

Pseudo Sue is all Citra.

This is kind of a cool link that gives hop combos of various commercial IPA's. http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2013/02/american-ipa-hop-bills-and-analysis.html

 

[Braufessor]

It's nice to have options I see based on water profile. I'm seeing I can use the same grain bil and really alter mouthfeel by water adjustments. Clean and crisp is higher sulfate and low chloride and fuller mouthfeel and creaminess with higher chloride and lower sulfate. Am I looking at this right even with mash temps still in the 150 range ? Almost 2 yrs into ag being and I love that I'm learning stuff all the time although I just got into water chemistry thanks to yooper and it's completely changed my beers. It's no joke water chemistry matters.

The biggest thing with brewing (including water profile) is to start somewhere and then adjust according to your own personal taste. Not everyone prefers the same approaches. One of the best things you can do is brew the same beer with two different profiles (significant enough difference that there is a real taste difference) and see what you like. Then even within that strategy you prefer, make some adjustments and contrast the differences. Also - adjusting water a few ppm one way or the other is really not something that is going to be noticed.

Whenever you mess with water, remember, the #1 priority is to make sure your mash pH is somewhere in the ballpark before you worry about the flavor/mouthfeel component. 5.2-5.5 is a general ballpark you want to find yourself in. I find that lower pH gives you clearer beer and higher end tends to leave the exact same beer cloudier, hazier.

Mash Temps..... in my experience there is really not much difference as long as you are in the 150-154 range. Pushing it lower or higher can give some differences in dryness/full ness of the beer.

 

[PeteNMA]

And you can always add salts to the finished beer to see what they do to the taste. It's a great way to identify batch to batch changes before you brew the next batch.

I totally agree that you should focus less on the absolute numbers and their purported effects, and adjust your beer to your own personal taste

 

[olotti]

And you can always add salts to the finished beer to see what they do to the taste. It's a great way to identify batch to batch changes before you brew the next batch.

I totally agree that you should focus less on the absolute numbers and their purported effects, and adjust your beer to your own personal taste

Yup totally agree with both of you there. im interested to see what outcome reversing the sulfate and chloride has to do with this batch since after brewing 5-7 batches with higher sulfates I have a good taste and idea of what that can produce. Thanks for the info sorry for the thread jack.

 

[Braufessor]

Last night I was able to get a can of Heady Topper that I want to grow up the yeast in it just to see how similar it is to the Omega DIPA "Vermont" yeast.

Make sure you start small - 200-300ml of starter wort @1.020-1.030 gravity. I find it can take a couple days before you really notice activity. Depends on how fresh the Heady Topper is too.

 

[KirkMN]

Make sure you start small - 200-300ml of starter wort @1.020-1.030 gravity. I find it can take a couple days before you really notice activity. Depends on how fresh the Heady Topper is too.

I was thinking of stepping it up a few times, a few days on each low gravity wort. It was canned 12/28, but its been through some travels. Should I cool it between and decant off the excess liquid? Any tips?

 

[Braufessor]

Yes - that is what I do. I start with a 1L flask and I do that first small starter (200-300ml) to get activity going and then let it ferment out and settle out. I decant as much clear liquid off as possible and boil up 500ml of 1.040 gravity wort - dump it right in on the freshly decanted small starter. Let it ferment out again and decant. I then use a 2L flask and make a 1200ml starter (1.040) and if everything looks good, I may pitch that into a batch of blonde ale (1.040) gravity. If it looks like it is still on the small side, I might do one more step ..... crash the 1200ml starter, decant and add another 1200ml of wort. I am never in a big hurry to go from a can of beer into a batch of beer..... My step up might be over the course of 2 weeks sometimes.

When I pitch into beer, I always pitch an entire, actively fermenting, 1L starter. I don't decant.

Also - personally, I would recommend that your first pitch off of a starter you take up from a can of beer goes into a small beer (I do a blonde ale). Low hops, low gravity. Makes a good house beer. The yeast has an easy time with it, and then you can collect 4-6 jars of yeast pretty easily that you can turn around and use for your IPA's and beers that are a bit bigger.

 

[brewski09]

How much does it affect the finished beer to mash with the treated water vs adding for the boil. I'm thinking about the quicker extract batches I like to squeeze in and wondering if I can apply these water concepts successfully to extract beers. Thx

 

[Braufessor]

The issue with adding sulfate/Chloride to the boil kettle for an extract beer is basically that you have no idea what you are actually really getting in regard to mineral content.

With all grain, you know your water source. You know what you are starting with, and you know what your additions are. You are first shooting for mash pH and secondarily flavor/perception of your additions.

With extract - you don't need to worry about pH as you are not mashing. You may know the mineral content of the water you are using, but you really don't know about the mineral content of the water that was used to make the extract. So, there is a certain amount of minerals already present in the extract itself. It might be high, it might be low - but you don't know what it is. So, adding on top of it is a bit of a guessing game.

That said - you can absolutely add minerals to the boil kettle for the purpose of flavor/perception. You can even add to finished beer to get a feel for additions. If my mineral additions are going to affect my pH in a way that is too extreme, I will add some of them to the boil kettle. If I was adding to extract, I would start maybe on the lower side a bit...... say 100 chloride and 50 sulfate for instance and see what you think. You can raise or lower on future batches based on your preferences.

 

[bg1414]

how high is it ok for calcium? to get 100/180 sulfate/chloride I have a calcium level well above 100. Thanks