New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[CascadesBrewer]

They all touched on dry hop process at the end. Pretty interesting to me nobody mentioned dropping the temperature for crashing yeast or Dry Hopping and the contact times are about four days. No rousing from monkish is pretty surprising to me!

The info from Monkish was a bit surprising to me as well. I had some Monkish hazies several years ago at the brewery, and I have had a few over the past year or two at special events. They are a bit too overboard on the hop saturation for my preferences, but I just assumed they must be doing something special to get that level of saturation. Monkish (Henry Nguyen) indicated they like T-90 pellets over other hop product and I believe they said 3-5 days of contact time at fermentation temps.

One of the breweries was using some type of hop cannon device. Was that Trillium or Weldwerks?

 

[CyberFox]

The info from Monkish was a bit surprising to me as well. I had some Monkish hazies several years ago at the brewery, and I have had a few over the past year or two at special events. They are a bit too overboard on the hop saturation for my preferences, but I just assumed they must be doing something special to get that level of saturation. Monkish (Henry Nguyen) indicated they like T-90 pellets over other hop product and I believe they said 3-5 days of contact time at fermentation temps.

One of the breweries was using some type of hop cannon device. Was that Trillium or Weldwerks?

That was Trillium with the device. It's really interesting how most of the pro breweries dry hop warm and usually for 3+ days. Monkish even said that they mimicked Vinnie Cilurzo's West Coast IPA dry hop process. Nguyen said that they are usually grain-to-glass in 27 days due to extensive cold crashing and he wishes that they could lager even longer. Definitely not what I expected from them. Pretty cool to listen to.

 

[beervoid]

That was Trillium with the device. It's really interesting how most of the pro breweries dry hop warm and usually for 3+ days. Monkish even said that they mimicked Vinnie Cilurzo's West Coast IPA dry hop process. Nguyen said that they are usually grain-to-glass in 27 days due to extensive cold crashing and he wishes that they could lager even longer. Definitely not what I expected from them. Pretty cool to listen to.

They dont really have a choice imho if you want your cans to be stable you need to work with the creep, I'd imagine they know their cans are traded and are trying to mitigate the risk.

 

[CyberFox]

To anyone who can answer: how long does it usually take for hop creep to run its course if dry hopping warm (say 70F)?

 

[couchsending]

It all depends on your yeast, fermentability of your wort, the enzyme load of your hops… etc

There is no set time. Could be 24 hours could be 5 days.

Gravity and forced VDK tests are your only ways of truly knowing.

 

[CyberFox]

It all depends on your yeast, fermentability of your wort, the enzyme load of your hops… etc

There is no set time. Could be 24 hours could be 5 days.

Gravity and forces VDK tests are your only ways of truly knowing.

Thanks for a good answer. I was looking for an average, which is what you gave me. It wasn't easy to find, but after a lot more digging I found out that the average time it takes for hop creep to run its course is usually 4-6 days with healthy yeast.

Dry hop length by brewery:
Monkish: 4-5 days
Other Half: 5 days
Treehouse: 4-6 days
Weldwerks: 4-6 days
Great Notion: 6+ days
Fort George: 4-10 days

I found more extreme examples of how long it takes to pass a VDK test:
pFriem at Craft Brewers Conference: up to 14 days
Russian River at Shellhammer's panel: 10-15 days.
Beersmith article: up to 45 days

 

[Ulisses4677]

The info from Monkish was a bit surprising to me as well. I had some Monkish hazies several years ago at the brewery, and I have had a few over the past year or two at special events. They are a bit too overboard on the hop saturation for my preferences, but I just assumed they must be doing something special to get that level of saturation. Monkish (Henry Nguyen) indicated they like T-90 pellets over other hop product and I believe they said 3-days of contact time at fermentation temps.

One of the breweries was using some type of hop cannon device. Was that Trillium or Weldwe

Thanks for a good answer. I was looking for an average, which is what you gave me. It wasn't easy to find, but after a lot more digging I found out that the average time it takes for hop creep to run its course is usually 4-6 days with healthy yeast.

Dry hop length by brewery:
Monkish: 4-5 days
Other Half: 5 days
Treehouse: 4-6 days
Weldwerks: 4-6 days
Great Notion: 6+ days
Fort George: 4-10 days

I found more extreme examples of how long it takes to pass a VDK test:
pFriem at Craft Brewers Conference: up to 14 days
Russian River at Shellhammer's panel: 10-15 days.
Beersmith article: up to 45 days

You can always use Aldc enzyme.

 

[CyberFox]

You can always use Aldc enzyme.

True, and that's a good point, but it's also good to know how long to dry hop warm if you don't have the ALDC enzyme. North Park uses it and I'm pretty sure Trillium does too. They both dry hop warm (70F for North Park and 60F for Trillium) for 2-3 days, which is likely possible due to the ALDC enzyme.

 

[Ulisses4677]

True, and that's a good point, but it's also good to know how long to dry hop warm if you don't have the ALDC enzyme. North Park uses it and I'm pretty sure Trillium does too. They both dry hop warm (70F for North Park and 60F for Trillium) for 2-3 days, which is likely possible due to the ALDC enzyme.

Russian river uses too.

 

[Ulisses4677]

I personally dry hop on the cooler end and pull better flavor and aromas then warmer temps. I feel like warmer temps have a very similar taste it doesn’t matter what hop you use. When I first started brewing I would dry hop at 68 degrees during high Krausen and I wasn’t a big fan. Cooler temp dry hop is the way to go.

 

[beervoid]

Thanks for a good answer. I was looking for an average, which is what you gave me. It wasn't easy to find, but after a lot more digging I found out that the average time it takes for hop creep to run its course is usually 4-6 days with healthy yeast.

Dry hop length by brewery:
Monkish: 4-5 days
Other Half: 5 days
Treehouse: 4-6 days
Weldwerks: 4-6 days
Great Notion: 6+ days
Fort George: 4-10 days

I found more extreme examples of how long it takes to pass a VDK test:
pFriem at Craft Brewers Conference: up to 14 days
Russian River at Shellhammer's panel: 10-15 days.
Beersmith article: up to 45 days

You can shorten it by adding a small fermentation hop charge

 

[CyberFox]

I personally dry hop on the cooler end and pull better flavor and aromas then warmer temps. I feel like warmer temps have a very similar taste it doesn’t matter what hop you use. When I first started brewing I would dry hop at 68 degrees during high Krausen and I wasn’t a big fan. Cooler temp dry hop is the way to go.

Dry hopping cold seems to work for some, but not others (and vice versa). It just goes to show that you can still get good results using different techniques. It's interesting that most breweries seem to dry hop warm post-fermentation. It could just be tradition for all I know.

You can shorten it by adding a small fermentation hop charge

I've heard of this technique, but I don't really understand how it works. Won't the post-fermentation dry hop still have the enzymes that cause the secondary fermentation (and in much bigger numbers)?

 

[beervoid]

Dry hopping cold seems to work for some, but not others (and vice versa). It just goes to show that you can still get good results using different techniques. It's interesting that most breweries seem to dry hop warm post-fermentation. It could just be tradition for all I know.


I've heard of this technique, but I don't really understand how it works. Won't the post-fermentation dry hop still have the enzymes that cause the secondary fermentation (and in much bigger numbers)?

It will free up what unfermentable sugars there are so yeast can work fast on it while its active

 

[CyberFox]

Is it pretty much standard pactice for regulars on this thread to use ALDC enzyme?

 

[CyberFox]

It will free up what unfermentable sugars there are so yeast can work fast on it while its active

Got it. That's good to know. I learned from the podcast that North Park uses both that technique and ALDC enzyme.

 

[Dgallo]

Dry hopping cold seems to work for some, but not others (and vice versa). It just goes to show that you can still get good results using different techniques. It's interesting that most breweries seem to dry hop warm post-fermentation. It could just be tradition for all I know.

It’s more about logistics. When you cold crash you stop the yeats activity, so when you dryhop at that temp it causes the hops to sink. This is an issue for anyone with a conical fv but especially the pros because it’s far more difficult for them to get effective rousing in 5bbl+ sized fermenters. By doing it warmer they are getting better extraction since the hops won’t sink to the bottom and get stuck in the cone and the compound will be more harmonious mixed. Also since they are anticipating the hop creep they know they will get some convection

Also notice most of the breweries being mentioned are on the west coast and the standard hazy is more bitter and astringent then those on the east coast. For example, I’ve drank a lot of monkish and I don’t think I’ve ever had a ipa from them that didn’t have some level of hop burn

 

[beervoid]

It’s more about logistics. When you cold crash you stop the yeats activity, so when you dryhop at that temp it causes the hops to sink. This is an issue for anyone with a conical fv but especially the pros because it’s far more difficult for them to get effective rousing in 5bbl+ sized fermenters. By doing it warmer they are getting better extraction since the hops won’t sink to the bottom and get stuck in the cone and the compound will be more harmonious mixed. Also since they are anticipating the hop creep they know they will get some convection

Also notice most of the breweries being mentioned are on the west coast and the standard hazy is more bitter and astringent then those on the east coast. For example, I’ve drank a lot of monkish and I don’t think I’ve ever had a ipa from them that didn’t have some level of hop burn

I think its all about balance, time vs temperature vs agetation.
And all these parameters change depending on hop quality, hop cultivar, vessel size, vessel geometry.
Try finding a balance that works for you with parameters that change all the time is the black magic of brewing imho.
The pros at least have advantage to select their hops which makes it quiet a bit more predictable what sort of character you will get from lot nr X with process Y.

I've done both warm and cold dryhopping and had fantastic and not good results with both.

 

[CyberFox]

It’s more about logistics. When you cold crash you stop the yeats activity, so when you dryhop at that temp it causes the hops to sink. This is an issue for anyone with a conical fv but especially the pros because it’s far more difficult for them to get effective rousing in 5bbl+ sized fermenters. By doing it warmer they are getting better extraction since the hops won’t sink to the bottom and get stuck in the cone and the compound will be more harmonious mixed. Also since they are anticipating the hop creep they know they will get some convection

Also notice most of the breweries being mentioned are on the west coast and the standard hazy is more bitter and astringent then those on the east coast. For example, I’ve drank a lot of monkish and I don’t think I’ve ever had a ipa from them that didn’t have some level of hop burn

Good points. What would you consider the best overall temp for dry hopping at this point? Also, what is your opinion on grinding hop pellets into a powder for better extraction at cold temperatures?

 

[Noob_Brewer]

Good points. What would you consider the best overall temp for dry hopping at this point? Also, what is your opinion on grinding hop pellets into a powder for better extraction at cold temperatures?

For me, I think the balance is at 56-57F for a total of 48hrs contact time. After I soft crash to 50 for 36hrs, I will gently let it rise to 56. Then I measure my DHs out and put them in a tupperware container to warm up to room temps for about 1hr. If Im using a whole 2oz pack, Ill keep it sealed in its bag. I feel like letting the hops warm to room temp facilitates them breaking to pieces easier once you put them in. I've also moved to ONE DH lately which Im actually liking but Ive also limited my DH to 6-10oz depending on the strength of the beer.

While DHing at 56F and letting the hops warm up to room temp, I do get a nice carpet of hops all broken up at the top of the beer (you will get some that sink). The hop "carpet" will drop out slowly over about 24 or so hrs. I start to cold crash at 24hrs post DH so that Im kegging 24hrs after that. This is what Im currently doing and been loving the results. Although its not a NEIPA, but my Double west coast style IPA had 8oz of hops (some of that was columbus and citra lupomax) and this beers aroma is easily one of the most pleasantly potent that I have had in quite some time.

EDIT: I will edit this to say that DH process is important here (especially limiting O2), I think the hop quality is also critical. SO its difficult to tease out DH process vs hop quality if both are good.

 

[CyberFox]

For me, I think the balance is at 56-57F for a total of 48hrs contact time. After I soft crash to 50 for 36hrs, I will gently let it rise to 56. Then I measure my DHs out and put them in a tupperware container to warm up to room temps for about 1hr. If Im using a whole 2oz pack, Ill keep it sealed in its bag. I feel like letting the hops warm to room temp facilitates them breaking to pieces easier once you put them in. I've also moved to ONE DH lately which Im actually liking but Ive also limited my DH to 6-10oz depending on the strength of the beer.

While DHing at 56F and letting the hops warm up to room temp, I do get a nice carpet of hops all broken up at the top of the beer (you will get some that sink). The hop "carpet" will drop out slowly over about 24 or so hrs. I start to cold crash at 24hrs post DH so that Im kegging 24hrs after that. This is what Im currently doing and been loving the results. Although its not a NEIPA, but my Double west coast style IPA had 8oz of hops (some of that was columbus and citra lupomax) and this beers aroma is easily one of the most pleasantly potent that I have had in quite some time.

EDIT: I will edit this to say that DH process is important here (especially limiting O2), I think the hop quality is also critical. SO its difficult to tease out DH process vs hop quality if both are good.

Awesome info and thanks for the details of your process. I've heard people dry hopping anywhere from 34-72F. I was thinking of trying to dry hop at 38F (carbonation temp) with ground up pellets for better extraction. My main goal is to get maximum aroma that showcases the best example of each hop.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

Awesome info and thanks for the details of your process. I've heard people dry hopping anywhere from 34-72F. I was thinking of trying to dry hop at 38F (carbonation temp) with ground up pellets for better extraction. My main goal is to get maximum aroma that showcases the best example of each hop.

I think this also depends on the yeast used. IMHO, Verdant, Juice, LAIII all don't let the hops shine as much as a24 dry hop. I still like them all but yeast esters can also sometimes cover up the hop profiles

 

[Ulisses4677]

My most recent double ipa 9% abv
I wanted to see how spectrum works as a cold dry hop. Only use spectrum to dry hop. I did you Nelson and galaxy hops in the whirlpool and ctz last 20 min of the boil.

 

[Dgallo]

View attachment 823374
My most recent double ipa 9% abv
I wanted to see how spectrum works as a cold dry hop. Only use spectrum to dry hop. I did you Nelson and galaxy hops in the whirlpool and ctz last 20 min of the boil.

How was the spectrum only dryhop?

We attempted that once, but it came across very one dimension and ended up adding t90 at 2 lb/bbl make it more interesting

Did you have a similar experience?

 

[Ulisses4677]

How was the spectrum only dryhop?

We attempted that once, but it came across very one dimension and ended up adding t90 at 2 lb/bbl make it more interesting

Did you have a similar experience?

It’s for sure galaxy driven. I don’t think I would add any T 90 0r 45 pellets. I had a pretty big whirlpool with 6 oz of Nelson and 4 of galaxy at 165f for 20 min. It’s has the hop bite at the end. I do think it’s one dimensional when it comes ro aroma, I wish the Nelson would have a bigger role .I personally like to keep my niepas at a 2 hop combo with citra mosaic or Nelson as my supporting hops and whatever other hop as my star. I had a few beers from green cheek and monkish this weekend and I felt they lacked hop expression in aroma. Most of their beers had a 5 hop combo and none of the individual hops stood out. Spectrum is good around 56 to 62 f. To answer your ? Yes it would be a spectacular beer with some T90 pellets to showcase hop flavor. Sorry I hope it makes sense, I have my one year old being a menace while I try to elaborate.

 

[Dgallo]

It’s for sure galaxy driven. I don’t think I would add any T 90 0r 45 pellets. I had a pretty big whirlpool with 6 oz of Nelson and 4 of galaxy at 165f for 20 min. It’s has the hop bite at the end. I do think it’s one dimensional when it comes ro aroma, I wish the Nelson would have a bigger role .I personally like to keep my niepas at a 2 hop combo with citra mosaic or Nelson as my supporting hops and whatever other hop as my star. I had a few beers from green cheek and monkish this weekend and I felt they lacked hop expression in aroma. Most of their beers had a 5 hop combo and none of the individual hops stood out. Spectrum is good around 56 to 62 f. To answer your ? Yes it would be a spectacular beer with some T90 pellets to showcase hop flavor. Sorry I hope it makes sense, I have my one year old being a menace while I try to elaborate.

Haha Life is wild with kids so I total get that. I have 4 and 2 year olds sons and a 5 month old daughter.

Overall sounds like your happy with it, so that’s def a good thing. What spectrum did you use, Galaxy? I’m assuming so.

I used Citra and i think I was expecting more than what it could do and was let down. The Galaxy could certainly be different

 

[Ulisses4677]

Haha Life is wild with kids so I total get that. I have 4 and 2 year olds sons and a 5 month old daughter.

Overall sounds like your happy with it, so that’s def a good thing. What spectrum did you use, Galaxy? I’m assuming so.

I used Citra and i think I was expecting more than what it could do and was let down. The Galaxy could certainly be different

That’s awesome congratulations. I’m just fortunate to have a 1 year old daughter. I did use galaxy but I have had the most success with mosaic spectrum.

 

[hopfenstopfen]

It’s for sure galaxy driven. I don’t think I would add any T 90 0r 45 pellets. I had a pretty big whirlpool with 6 oz of Nelson and 4 of galaxy at 165f for 20 min. It’s has the hop bite at the end. I do think it’s one dimensional when it comes ro aroma, I wish the Nelson would have a bigger role .I personally like to keep my niepas at a 2 hop combo with citra mosaic or Nelson as my supporting hops and whatever other hop as my star. I had a few beers from green cheek and monkish this weekend and I felt they lacked hop expression in aroma. Most of their beers had a 5 hop combo and none of the individual hops stood out. Spectrum is good around 56 to 62 f. To answer your ? Yes it would be a spectacular beer with some T90 pellets to showcase hop flavor. Sorry I hope it makes sense, I have my one year old being a menace while I try to elaborate.

Thanks for sharing your experiences with us! Did you follow Barth-Hass recommendations & add at late fermentation? And this was the only dry hop addition? I was curious how this might work out with Galaxy’s high polyphenols specifically.

 

[Dgallo]

Thanks for sharing your experiences with us! Did you follow Barth-Hass recommendations & add at late fermentation? And this was the only dry hop addition? I was curious how this might work out with Galaxy’s high polyphenols specifically.

Polyphenols are primarily in green plant material so I’m assuming their concentration is far decreased from t90

 

[Ulisses4677]

Thanks for sharing your experiences with us! Did you follow Barth-Hass recommendations & add at late fermentation? And this was the only dry hop addition? I was curious how this might work out with Galaxy’s high polyphenols specifically.

No i dumped spectrum with some ALDC and a crushed campdem tablet to a purged keg and racked the beer. I made sure it mixed really well with the beer by gently rolling the keg. The keg was hooked to the Co2 tank.

 

[hopfenstopfen]

No i dumped spectrum with some ALDC and a crushed campdem tablet to a purged keg and racked the beer. I made sure it mixed really well with the beer by gently rolling the keg. The keg was hooked to the Co2 tank.

After cold crashing I guess?