New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[aaronm13]

Is dry hopping under pressure not best practice? Listening to the second part of the CBB podcast with Russian River and Green Cheek and the Green cheek guy was saying they vent all through dry hopping. They blow co2 into the tank to rouse the hops but vent again once this is finished.

I dry hop in a keg and rouse by adding co2 down the dip tube but don't vent so I'm easily hopping under at least 10 psi. For the amount of hops I'm throwing at beers I'm not exactly happy with my results so trying to trouble shoot my process and this hit me while listening to the podcast.

 

[Dgallo]

I dry hop in a keg and rouse by adding co2 down the dip tube but don't vent so I'm easily hopping under at least 10 psi. For the amount of hops I'm throwing at beers I'm not exactly happy with my results so trying to trouble shoot my process and this hit me while listening to the podcast.

You only need to hold positive pressure. Literally 1-2 psi. 10 is way more than needed and will certainly carbonate the beer to some extent

You can’t rouse well with that much head pressure. Your better off spunding at like 3-4 psi while your rousing

 

[Apmarand]

I personally keep head pressure at 8-10 psi, and recirculate for 5 min twice over 48 hrs for 10-gal batches, under pressure. I find pressure and spunded carb adds to the mouthfeel. To each their own. There’s no wrong way to do it. At this point, it’s become personally preference

 

[Dgallo]

I personally keep head pressure at 8-10 psi, and recirculate for 5 min twice over 48 hrs for 10-gal batches, under pressure. I find pressure and spunded carb adds to the mouthfeel. To each their own. There’s no wrong way to do it. At this point, it’s become personally preference

You recirculate? No o2 issues?

Very interested in your process and any tips you found to avoid o2 pick up. I have a few industry friends who only rouse as they are nervous to recirculate and I would love to share your process with them

Also how much carb are you picking up? I’d imagine recirculating is carbing it quite a bit at 10 psi for 10 minutes.

 

[Apmarand]

I more or less use the set up from this thread (Recirculating hops in conical fermenter). Direct mount pump with as short of PVC. I haven’t noticed any O2 pickup versus rousing and the extraction I’ve noticed is substantially improved. I figure if there are no leaks while under positive pressure before turning over the tank, all my seals are good. It’s still a little nerve racking every time as any loose seal while running the pump would obviously be a catastrophe. Switching out the PVC for EVA barrier (or hard piping - lol) would be helpful for preventing ingress while the pump isn’t running. I’ve read that some will water/sanitizer purge the lines after assembly, but I haven’t figured out how to do that on my system. So I just run CO2 through the system for 20-30 seconds with one TC clamp loose, then tighten down and bring to the same pressure as the tank.

 

[aaronm13]

You only need to hold positive pressure. Literally 1-2 psi. 10 is way more than needed and will certainly carbonate the beer to some extent

You can’t rouse well with that much head pressure. Your better off spunding at like 3-4 psi while your rousing

I was always worried about blowing off aroma, think that's why I started just holding the pressure. Going to try just applying 1psi on my next brew just to keep the keg sealed, especially after listening to that podcast. They also mentioned they dry hop at 70C for around 48 hours, variety dependent. Pretty much goes against everything I've learned and practiced for the last few years. It's a great listen, Vinny is such an interesting and open guy.

 

[Dwaynehaze]

I was always worried about blowing off aroma, think that's why I started just holding the pressure. Going to try just applying 1psi on my next brew just to keep the keg sealed, especially after listening to that podcast. They also mentioned they dry hop at 70C for around 48 hours, variety dependent. Pretty much goes against everything I've learned and practiced for the last few years. It's a great listen, Vinny is such an interesting and open guy.

Holy crap at 70 celsius?

 

[spersichilli]

This is my latest one, employed the patented dgallo closed transfer fermonster lids for the transfers on this one too. 8.4% NE DIPA. Outdoor lighting vs garage lighting pictures for transparency.

5.5 gal into the fermenter

76% Pilsner
21% Flaked Oats
3% dextrose
slightly missed my gravity so added .5lb extra light dme as well

OG: 1.080, FG: 1.018
~10 ibu hop extract to bitter
Whirlpool: 20g Citra Incognito, 20g Mosaic Incognito, 2oz Galaxy (30 mins around 160)
LAIII (repitched from a previous NEIPA)
Dry hop was 6oz LUPOMAX (3 each of mosaic/citra) at day 6 of fermentation, the rest of the DH was cold (55ish) off of the yeast split into two charges: 4.5oz Motueka, 4.5oz Riwaka, 2oz Galaxy, 1oz Citra LUPO, 1oz Mosaic Lupo. So 19oz of DH for the 5.5 gallons.

Was supposed to throw a little bit of citra/mosaic T90 in the dry hop as but I didn't like the way the pellets smelled so tossed them (was targeting 22oz total, or 4oz per gallon). This came out super well, very happy with it. Forgot to take a final pH reading but it was 5.1 going into the fermenter.

 

[spersichilli]

You only need to hold positive pressure. Literally 1-2 psi. 10 is way more than needed and will certainly carbonate the beer to some extent

You can’t rouse well with that much head pressure. Your better off spunding at like 3-4 psi while your rousing

I'm carbing my beer while I dry hop in the DH keg. I set it to 40psi 24 hours before I transfer into the serving keg, then set it to serving pressure when it's in the serving keg. I usually forget to rouse but when I do I figure it's easier just to shake the keg.

 

[Dwaynehaze]

This is my latest one, employed the patented dgallo closed transfer fermonster lids for the transfers on this one too. 8.4% NE DIPA. Outdoor lighting vs garage lighting pictures for transparency.

5.5 gal into the fermenter

76% Pilsner
21% Flaked Oats
3% dextrose
slightly missed my gravity so added .5lb extra light dme as well

OG: 1.080, FG: 1.018
~10 ibu hop extract to bitter
Whirlpool: 20g Citra Incognito, 20g Mosaic Incognito, 2oz Galaxy (30 mins around 160)
LAIII (repitched from a previous NEIPA)
Dry hop was 6oz LUPOMAX (3 each of mosaic/citra) at day 6 of fermentation, the rest of the DH was cold (55ish) off of the yeast split into two charges: 4.5oz Motueka, 4.5oz Riwaka, 2oz Galaxy, 1oz Citra LUPO, 1oz Mosaic Lupo. So 19oz of DH for the 5.5 gallons.

Was supposed to throw a little bit of citra/mosaic T90 in the dry hop as but I didn't like the way the pellets smelled so tossed them (was targeting 22oz total, or 4oz per gallon). This came out super well, very happy with it. Forgot to take a final pH reading but it was 5.1 going into the fermenter.

Tasting good? No rough bite from that huge dh?

 

[spersichilli]

Tasting good? No rough bite from that huge dh?

tiny bit of hop burn currently but I don't really mind that in NEIPAs. I think splitting the dry hop into multiple charges and moving it off of the previous charge helps minimize the hop burn (at least anecdotally in my experience). Transferred it to the serving keg sunday and drank two glasses of it way to quickly on Monday haha

 

[hopfenstopfen]

This is my latest one, employed the patented dgallo closed transfer fermonster lids for the transfers on this one too. 8.4% NE DIPA. Outdoor lighting vs garage lighting pictures for transparency.

5.5 gal into the fermenter

76% Pilsner
21% Flaked Oats
3% dextrose
slightly missed my gravity so added .5lb extra light dme as well

OG: 1.080, FG: 1.018
~10 ibu hop extract to bitter
Whirlpool: 20g Citra Incognito, 20g Mosaic Incognito, 2oz Galaxy (30 mins around 160)
LAIII (repitched from a previous NEIPA)
Dry hop was 6oz LUPOMAX (3 each of mosaic/citra) at day 6 of fermentation, the rest of the DH was cold (55ish) off of the yeast split into two charges: 4.5oz Motueka, 4.5oz Riwaka, 2oz Galaxy, 1oz Citra LUPO, 1oz Mosaic Lupo. So 19oz of DH for the 5.5 gallons.

Was supposed to throw a little bit of citra/mosaic T90 in the dry hop as but I didn't like the way the pellets smelled so tossed them (was targeting 22oz total, or 4oz per gallon). This came out super well, very happy with it. Forgot to take a final pH reading but it was 5.1 going into the fermenter.

With a 19 oz DH, how much made it to the keg?

 

[spersichilli]

With a 19 oz DH, how much made it to the keg?

looks to be roughly 4.25-4.5 gallons. Didn't weigh it, this is just going off the condensation markings on the side. That's including loss to trub/yeast as well

 

[aaronm13]

Holy crap at 70 celsius?

Ah sorry, that should be Fahrenheit. That's what I get for going between the metric and imperial systems.

 

[wepeeler]

Mosaic Flash Sale Mosaic Hops

 

[CyberFox]

What is the consensus on adding LODO brewing's "trifecta" (ascorbic acid, sodium metabisulfate, and Brewtan-B) to the mash or during the dry hop?

I've noticed that some like to use ascorbic acid by itself, but I read that it creates hydrogen peroxide, which needs to be cleaned up with something like sodium metabisulfate. Here is a summary on ascorbic acid from Morebeer: "It works by rapidly converting dissolved oxygen into hydrogen peroxide before it has a chance to react with oxidative enzymes and cause browning. However, this hydrogen peroxide itself needs to be removed from the wine in order to avoid the very phenomenon that was trying to be avoided in the first place, namely oxidizing the wine."

Thanks in advance!

 

[Dgallo]

What is the consensus on adding LODO brewing's "trifecta" (ascorbic acid, sodium metabisulfate, and Brewtan-B) to the mash or during the dry hop?

I've noticed that some like to use ascorbic acid by itself, but I read that it creates hydrogen peroxide, which needs to be cleaned up with something like sodium metabisulfate. Here is a summary on ascorbic acid from Morebeer: "It works by rapidly converting dissolved oxygen into hydrogen peroxide before it has a chance to react with oxidative enzymes and cause browning. However, this hydrogen peroxide itself needs to be removed from the wine in order to avoid the very phenomenon that was trying to be avoided in the first place, namely oxidizing the wine."

Thanks in advance!

Can you use it, sure. There is evidence it can prevent oxidation

I am sure this will be an unpopular opinion but I think it’s far more important to improve on true LODO process versus adding it.

This is by no way pointed at you just speaking in general, but So many people are coming into brewing hazes now with all the information they need on the internet (this thread was 1 or page pages in when I started) and as a result I feel that many brewers use crutches to fix their problems instead of fixing their process. For example, their ipas arent oxidized but they have no head, fusel, tannins, etc

Sorry, rant over lol

 

[CyberFox]

That gif! Yeah, I definitely agree that it's most important to prevent oxygen through one's process rather than using crutches to fix problems. I am very good at preventing oxygen from touching my beer and have no problems with oxidation, but I was just curious if the "trifecta" was widely used or even necessary. I have a hunch that it isn't truly necessary if already using good habits to prevent oxygen, but it's good to hear what others have to say and potentially learn from it.

 

[RCope]

Sorry, rant over lol

First off, I love this gif! And I hate to even tilt this thread into LODO territory because I know how polarizing it can be. But I have an opinion on this topic directly from a lot of experience. So I'll share it... @Dgallo mentions process as critical and I agree 100%. But what he is referring to (I assume) is cold side oxidation, which is extremely important for NEIPA's and any other hop heavy beer. And very much process sensitive. I think most of us minimize oxygen ingress for all beers, regardless of style, beginning from fermentation on. If you don't, you should.

The question about the "trifecta", however, refers to hotside LODO which is a whole 'nuther animal. I personally use as many hotside LODO procedures that are possible (and relatively easy) for all of my lagers given my process limitations. For me, this includes a pre-boil or yeast scavenge for the strike water, the "trifecta" pre-mash in, extremely slow wetting of the grist (BIAB), I would underlet if I had a separate mash tun, minimizing splashing throughout, a mash cap, and oxygenating simultaneously with yeast pitch. That's it...

That raises the question whether hotside LODO techniques improve NEIPA's. And I've done it both ways many times. In my experience, malt forward beers benefit greatly from hotside LODO, both in malt flavor and flavor stability. I'm talking about Pilsners, Kölsch, other lagers and malt forward ales (excluding English Bitters/IPA's...I see no difference in those). I do not think that hotside LODO allows any forgiveness for cold side process failures.

And for NEIPA's, the only difference I can perceive is... flavor stability is increased with hotside LODO. So my opinion is, if you are going to keep a NEIPA on draft for more than a month or so, hotside LODO practices keep the hop expression (both flavor and aroma) going much longer than without those practices. Cheers!

 

[Apmarand]

First off, I love this gif! And I hate to even tilt this thread into LODO territory because I know how polarizing it can be. But I have an opinion on this topic directly from a lot of experience. So I'll share it... @Dgallo mentions process as critical and I agree 100%. But what he is referring to (I assume) is cold side oxidation, which is extremely important for NEIPA's and any other hop heavy beer. And very much process sensitive. I think most of us minimize oxygen ingress for all beers, regardless of style, beginning from fermentation on. If you don't, you should.

The question about the "trifecta", however, refers to hotside LODO which is a whole 'nuther animal. I personally use as many hotside LODO procedures that are possible (and relatively easy) for all of my lagers given my process limitations. For me, this includes a pre-boil or yeast scavenge for the strike water, the "trifecta" pre-mash in, extremely slow wetting of the grist (BIAB), I would underlet if I had a separate mash tun, minimizing splashing throughout, a mash cap, and oxygenating simultaneously with yeast pitch. That's it...

That raises the question whether hotside LODO techniques improve NEIPA's. And I've done it both ways many times. In my experience, malt forward beers benefit greatly from hotside LODO, both in malt flavor and flavor stability. I'm talking about Pilsners, Kölsch, other lagers and malt forward ales (excluding English Bitters/IPA's...I see no difference in those). I do not think that hotside LODO allows any forgiveness for cold side process failures.

And for NEIPA's, the only difference I can perceive is... flavor stability is increased with hotside LODO. So my opinion is, if you are going to keep a NEIPA on draft for more than a month or so, hotside LODO practices keep the hop expression (both flavor and aroma) going much longer than without those practices. Cheers!

Do you have data to support these conclusions?

 

[RCope]

Do you have data to support these conclusions

No, I have no “data”…I thought I was pretty clear in my post that this is solely based on my experience and my opinion. Your results may vary…

 

[Mjpetrag]

Thats nectaron

Going back to this, I had other half’s “all Nectaron everything” last night and it also had this metallic/weird aroma which was unpleasant and exactly the flavor I had in mine. I am not enjoying this hop at all, and I have 2 lbs of it…

 

[Dwaynehaze]

Going back to this, I had other half’s “all Nectaron everything” last night and it also had this metallic/weird aroma which was unpleasant and exactly the flavor I had in mine. I am not enjoying this hop at all, and I have 2 lbs of it…

I'll take a lb of it off your hands if ya want

 

[beervoid]

Going back to this, I had other half’s “all Nectaron everything” last night and it also had this metallic/weird aroma which was unpleasant and exactly the flavor I had in mine. I am not enjoying this hop at all, and I have 2 lbs of it…

Might need to cut down the extraction time, but in the end seems like the good stuff is all privy to people who can actually handpick the good ones out.
For me all nz toppers, riwaka, nelson, nectaron all got diesel in some amount and it varies greatly

 

[Dgallo]

Going back to this, I had other half’s “all Nectaron everything” last night and it also had this metallic/weird aroma which was unpleasant and exactly the flavor I had in mine. I am not enjoying this hop at all, and I have 2 lbs of it…

Have they rebrewed that recently? I had it back in January, and really didn’t like it at all. Most diesel forward beer I’ve ever had. The lot of nectaron we used for the collab was far more fruit forward but it was still present, that’s why we choose to brighten it with Citra and Nelson

 

[Mjpetrag]

Have they rebrewed that recently? I had it back in January, and really didn’t like it at all. Most diesel forward beer I’ve ever had. The lot of nectaron we used for the collab was far more fruit forward but it was still present, that’s why we choose to brighten it with Citra and Nelson

I had it on tap at other half Philly. It was the all Nectaron everything cryo edition. Released 5/29

 

[Dgallo]

I had it on tap at other half Philly. It was the all Nectaron everything cryo edition. Released 5/29

I was trying to look for it on the Philly to go but couldn’t find it so it must be a tap only thing.

I didn’t realize nectaron had cryo options yet, that’s pretty cool. I wonder who’s the supplier of that

 

[Dgallo]

I was trying to look for it on the Philly to go but couldn’t find it so it must be a tap only thing.

I didn’t realize nectaron had cryo options yet, that’s pretty cool. I wonder who’s the supplier of that

Nvm I see it was canned too. Finger lakes and nyc have it. Also found out it’s Yakima chief that cryo’d it and it’s the first us beer to have cryo nectaron. It’s a Shame it was metallic

 

[aaronm13]

Have they rebrewed that recently? I had it back in January, and really didn’t like it at all. Most diesel forward beer I’ve ever had. The lot of nectaron we used for the collab was far more fruit forward but it was still present, that’s why we choose to brighten it with Citra and Nelson

Can you kinda tell what you're going to get from your batch of Nectaron by smelling or is it just pot luck? I got some more Nectaron and Nelson from Yakima during the week to brew your beer.

 

[Dgallo]

Can you kinda tell what you're going to get from your batch of Nectaron by smelling or is it just pot luck? I got some more Nectaron and Nelson from Yakima during the week to brew your beer.

Def not perfectly but I’d like to say I can get ballpark. I feel like it’s easier to understand dryhop outcomes than hotside outcomes