New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

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Dgallo said:
Could certainly be just marketing on their end and probably is. They are still a t45 type hop so they will be more concentrated than t90.
Regardless of their claim for consistency, theres absolutely no way to have 100% consistent agricultural products grown outdoors year to year. To much is reliant on the growth year and time of harvest.
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They claim to analyze the hop lots therefore making it "more consistent".
Too much black magic involved.
 
Noob_Brewer said:
Regarding grains, I think that Rahr 2-row is the best among the mass produced and available to virtually anybody in the USA IMHO. However, if you are wanting to try different grains, over the past ~6 months, I have become a huge fan of Epiphany Malt (North Carolina). To my knowledge you can only purchase it through Atlantic Brew Supply out of raleigh. For me being in NC, this is no big deal and I've ordered online and gone there to get a sack of their foundation 2-row malt in person (1.5hrs drive for me) when I was in Raleigh for a different reason. If you really want to geek out on malts, I would encourage you to visit their website which includes a ton of cool stuff including their efforts to move towards improving their carbon blueprint. The founder, Sebastian Wolfrum, is from Germany. He worked at Ayinger and later became a certified brewer and maltster in Munich before coming to NC. When reading through Epiphany's website, it becomes clear that they are focused on producing very flavorful malts, even the "generic" 2 row variety. They are all a bit darker due to extended kilning if I were to summarize their approach. I've brewed with their foundation 2-row as well as their munich malt and I've tried (eaten) these along with their pilsner. All of them are VERY flavorful and true to their style.

Warning tangent! Recently I brewed an altbier, and during planning I did a taste test of weyermann's munich type I malt (which I really like) with Epiphany's Munich malt. It was a slam dunk! Although I really couldn't do a blind comparison because they looked so different when I tasted both, Epiphany's was brighter, breadier, and had a better malty sweetness than weyermann's. It really wasn't even close. do think some of this might be due to the fact that I got the weyermann's through more beer and epiphany's just seemed MUCH MUCH fresher as well. the kernels were much more consistent, and not as "dry" looking and broken up as the weyermann's munich Type I from more beer.

So I would encourage you if you are in the mood and have the motivation to improve all of your aspects of your NEIPAs, even if its the "lowly" two row malts, I've become a big fan of Epiphany and since I've started tasting the grains more and more when determining grain composition for any beer, I do believe that this "might" even make a difference in a highly hopped beer such as an NEIPA.

Cheers!

EDIT: I have not had Mecca Grade malts for comparison. I do hope that the buyer of Mecca Grade is as passionate about malts as the founder though. Only heard great things about Mecca Grade.

https://www.epiphanymalt.com/
https://www.atlanticbrewsupply.com/
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Dude, thanks for this reply, its exactly what I was looking for. I will definitely look into them, sounds excellent.
 
bailey mountain brewer said:
Dude, thanks for this reply, its exactly what I was looking for. I will definitely look into them, sounds excellent.
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I enjoy playing with different malts and using craft malts. I am just not convinced that the common advice that more flavor = better. More often than not, with a Pilsner or American 2-row, I would rather have a more neutral and clean base malt that I can then enhance myself with a little malt like Munich, Aromatic or Honey Malt.

Some of the Weyermann Pilsners are great for making German or Czech Pilsners, but have flavors that I don't like in the types of beers I make. Avangard Pils is a very nice clean, light colored, neutral Pils. I love the biscuit and nutty character from Crisp Maris Otter in English styles, but I really just do not like that character in American Pale Ales, IPAs or NEIPAs.

I do like Rahr's 2-Row, and I wish I had easier access. I find that it adds just a touch of a grainy, whole wheat bread character that works well in most beers and separates it from a neutral Pilsner malt. My last 2 bags of 2-Row were Montana Craft Malt (mostly due to price and availability) and it seems comparable to Rahr. I just got a bag of Murphy & Rude 2-Row, but I have not cracked it open yet. When I made some single malt beers, I found that Briess 2-Row had a bit of a straw/hay character that I did not care for, but some people at my club really liked.
 
bailey mountain brewer said:
Anyone use ALDC with success or lack of success in this style. Not sure I want to sink the money in it and I typically dont have much of an issue but my last batch had a touch of hop burn.
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ALDC is kind of like insurance, you don't taste it, but if your beer gets packaged and warms up, then you won't want refermentation.
Based on the latest CB&B Pods, Kelsey McNair (North Park) and Evan Price (Green Cheek) said that they use it, with North Park winning multiple hoppy beer golds at GABF. That's enough of a use case for me...

Kelsey also mentioned that they intentionally add a small hop load at the end of fermentation just so that they get the enzyme into the wort before the fermentation is complete. I do something similar by adding less than half of my hop load at the last point or so, and in this scenario you likely won't need ALDC. This is another solid insurance against hop creep, since the enzyme is still added into the beer at cold temperatures at Dry Hop, and it can then trigger refermentation when someone keeps the bottle/can at room temp.
 
bailey mountain brewer said:
Anyone use ALDC with success or lack of success in this style. Not sure I want to sink the money in it and I typically dont have much of an issue but my last batch had a touch of hop burn.
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I got some today so will use it for the first time this weekend. Doing a BIPA with WLP002, which is very prone to diacetyl so should get a good test. Guidelines say to use 0.2g-1g per 5G of wort. Thats a bit of a broad range of dosage so not sure how much to use, probably just shoot in the middle at 0.6g.

Anyone who has use ALDC, what is your typical dosage for a 5G batch?
 
aaronm13 said:
I got some today so will use it for the first time this weekend. Doing a BIPA with WLP002, which is very prone to diacetyl so should get a good test. Guidelines say to use 0.2g-1g per 5G of wort. Thats a bit of a broad range of dosage so not sure how much to use, probably just shoot in the middle at 0.6g.

Anyone who has use ALDC, what is your typical dosage for a 5G batch?
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CellarScience say use 1 dropper (1oz) for 5 gallons.
 
secretlevel said:
Based on the latest CB&B Pods, Kelsey McNair (North Park) and Evan Price (Green Cheek) said that they use it, with North Park winning multiple hoppy beer golds at GABF. That's enough of a use case for me...
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At least one of them said in one of the podcasts that they were using a modified Chico strain. Maybe Chico DF from Berkeley Yeast? It looks like Berkeley Yeast have a number of "Diacetyl Free" strains, included a few for Hazies:
https://berkeleyyeast.com/available-yeast-strains/
BTW, it was interesting how these brewers that have been looked at as the best in their craft at making IPAs for a decade or two are still talking about constant process improvements and things they were doing "wrong" just a few years ago. In the two episodes, there was very little talk about recipes or specific ingredients, but a LOT of talk about process.
https://berkeleyyeast.com/available-yeast-strains/#
 
secretlevel said:
ALDC is kind of like insurance, you don't taste it, but if your beer gets packaged and warms up, then you won't want refermentation.
Based on the latest CB&B Pods, Kelsey McNair (North Park) and Evan Price (Green Cheek) said that they use it, with North Park winning multiple hoppy beer golds at GABF. That's enough of a use case for me...
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Cloudwater were certainly using ALDC 5 years ago, around the time that they came second to Hill Farmstead in the Ratebeer awards :
https://cloudwaterbrew.co/blog/2018/4/30/how-far-we-have-come
Just to be clear - ALDC is nothing to do with "hop burn", it breaks down the diacetyl precursor and that's all. You only need it if your beer is turning out buttery, or you want to speed up lager maturation. Murphys were one of the pioneers of it here, they recommend 3-4g per hectolitre in ales (less in lager), so about 0.7g in 5 US gallons.
https://www.murphyandson.co.uk/diacetyl-control-use-aldc-to-brew-the-beer-you-intended/
Supposedly one of the Cloudwater founders is a diacetyl supertaster, which is why they were/are so paranoid about VDKs.
 
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Yakima Valley Hops
DBDD8983-5156-4A3A-BB18-B1EAF7F00CBA.jpeg
 
Mecca Grade malts are out of stock at Northern Brewer 😭 Doesn't show that Mecca has sold yet, but I'm sure production has slowed, and people are buying up whatever they can. I'm super bummed out.

@James Quall Just had some really good Cascade from Artisan Hops!
 
wepeeler said:
Mecca Grade malts are out of stock at Northern Brewer 😭 Doesn't show that Mecca has sold yet, but I'm sure production has slowed, and people are buying up whatever they can. I'm super bummed out.

@James Quall Just had some really good Cascade from Artisan Hops!
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I’m so confused by this comment.

Are you saying what I ordered was Cascade instead of Nectaron?
 
wepeeler said:
No, sorry. I was saying Artisan Hops sells great hops! I just went through a pound of Cascade in 3 beers!
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Ah ok, I see. It was my first time ordering their hops as they seemed to be the only online retailer who had Nectaron and the time and was unsure of their quality.

The beers I made turned out pretty good but not mind blowing. That’s why I asked if they were worth it.
 
James Quall said:
Ah ok, I see. It was my first time ordering their hops as they seemed to be the only online retailer who had Nectaron and the time and was unsure of their quality.

The beers I made turned out pretty good but not mind blowing. That’s why I asked if they were worth it.
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Well, I got my Cascade on sale at Morebeer for $12.99/lb. Not sure I'd want to spend $40/lb for Citra 👀
 
wepeeler said:
Citra is $2.65/oz on the Artisan Hops website. That translates to $42.50/lb. I see it for $23/lb on YVVH and $27/lb at brewhardware.
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I got Nectaron from Artisan Hops a while back not Citra. I was responding to what he posted on Yakima Valley Hops, where Nectaron is ~2x the price of Citra.
 
wepeeler said:
Citra is $2.65/oz on the Artisan Hops website. That translates to $42.50/lb. I see it for $23/lb on YVVH and $27/lb at brewhardware.
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Yeah but you can't compare $/oz with $/lb, the US seems to particularly skew against small amounts. It's interesting, one thing that struck me about drinking in the US is that 2 halves can cost quite a bit more than a pint, whereas here there's a lot of pressure to charge pro-rata even though obviously there's an element of fixed cost that goes into getting a glass of beer onto the bar.

For comparison, even after it's transported to the UK, BarthHaas will sell you 5kg (11lb) of Citra T90 for US$11-17/lb, depending on vintage. Doesn't make for a fair comparison though. For comparison you can get 100g retail of 2022 Citra for about US$33+tax/lb (but going from 50g to 1kg only ranges from $32-36/lb in that example). 100g of Nectaron works out at US$48+tax/lb.
 
Northern_Brewer said:
Yeah but you can't compare $/oz with $/lb, the US seems to particularly skew against small amounts.

For comparison, even after it's transported to the UK, BarthHaas will sell you 5kg (11lb) of Citra T90 for US$11-17/lb, depending on vintage. Doesn't make for a fair comparison though. For comparison you can get 100g retail for about US$33+tax/lb (but going from 50g to 1kg only ranges from $32-36/lb in that example). For comparison 100g of Nectaron works out at US$48+tax/lb.

It's interesting, one thing that struck me about drinking in the US is that 2 halves can cost quite a bit more than a pint, whereas here there's a lot of pressure to charge pro-rata even though obviously there's an element of fixed cost that goes into getting a glass of beer onto the bar.
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I agree. I was just doing a simple math comparison because Artisan Hops doesn't sell by the lb on their website. They list price by the oz. Hops

And yes, I agree it is very weird the way smaller beers are priced significantly higher in the US. It should 100% be prorated. You can routinely get a full pint for $1-2 more than say a 8-12oz pour.
 
Northern_Brewer said:
It takes some getting used to when you come from a country with 20oz pints, I can tell you!
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When you come from a country where any beer under 6.5% ABV is considered a session beer, it is nice when a venue has reasonably priced 8 to 12 oz options. I go to one bar with a great tap selection, but their formula is always that the half pour is $2 less than the full pour. That is maybe okay when it is $6 vs $4, but at $10 vs $8, well, looks like I am getting a full pour of that 11% stout.
 
CascadesBrewer said:
It looks like Berkeley Yeast have a number of "Diacetyl Free" strains, included a few for Hazies
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Moonraker brewery is kind of famous for their hazies around here (Auburn, California). Their brewer tells me they use Berkeley Yeast’s LA III strain, which is genetically modified not to produce diacetyl. Their main motivation seems to be faster process because no D rest.
 
CascadesBrewer said:
When you come from a country where any beer under 6.5% ABV is considered a session beer, it is nice when a venue has reasonably priced 8 to 12 oz options.
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Hey, I'm often driving, and if I'm not I usually like to try as many beers as I can, particularly if I'm overseas, so in the US my usual order is two halves, I'm with you.
CascadesBrewer said:
I go to one bar with a great tap selection, but their formula is always that the half pour is $2 less than the full pour. That is maybe okay when it is $6 vs $4, but at $10 vs $8, well, looks like I am getting a full pour of that 11% stout.
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That can't end well...

But wow - I originally read this as two halves costing the same as a pint + $2, which seems quite common Stateside - but that way is just nuts. I quite like something Cloudwater do, which is to charge the same for everything, but different volumes. So for say £5($6) you get either a (20oz) pint of session beer, 2/3 pint of mid-strength IPA etc, or 1/3 of imperial stout - it works great for rounds.
 
InspectorJon said:
Moonraker brewery is kind of famous for their hazies around here (Auburn, California). Their brewer tells me they use Berkeley Yeast’s LA III strain, which is genetically modified not to produce diacetyl. Their main motivation seems to be faster process because no D rest.
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i bet it has nothing to do with speed. Id assume they use it as it prevents hopcreep to form diacetyl
 
Dgallo said:
i bet it has nothing to do with speed. Id assume they use it as it prevents hopcreep to form diacetyl
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Well the brewer told me they use it so they can turn their fermenters around a couple days faster and not have to do a D rest. They used to use A38. They sell the vast majority of their beer through onsite pours.

I don’t think they do any distribution other than the cans they sell out of the brewery. I have never seen it in stores or bars. They do sell cans at the brewery and often sell out of unique releases pretty fast. The hazy craze has subsided and they don’t seem to sell out to waiting lines on release day anymore. They still make a really nice beer and worth going out of the way some to have a taste.
 
Love Moonraker, great hazy's and wcipa's. We get some locally at a Whole Foods type of market with a great beer selection, here on the central coast. I've also ordered directly from the brewery. Crazy because the beer ordered was brewed on a Tuesday, ordered Wednesday, and at my door by noon on Thursday. I'm about 5-6 hours from the brewery.
 
InspectorJon said:
Well the brewer told me they use it so they can turn their fermenters around a couple days faster and not have to do a D rest. They used to use A38. They sell the vast majority of their beer through onsite pours.

I don’t think they do any distribution other than the cans they sell out of the brewery. I have never seen it in stores or bars. They do sell cans at the brewery and often sell out of unique releases pretty fast. The hazy craze has subsided and they don’t seem to sell out to waiting lines on release day anymore. They still make a really nice beer and worth going out of the way some to have a taste.
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Just seems weird as they should be performing a d-rest during fermentation and bringing the tailend of ferm up to 70-72 If not there on its own and making sure they are at fg for 48 hours prior to packaging anyway which would clean up any diacetyl. I guess you’d have to know there exact process and pitch rate to know what type of time their able to shave down. I mean I do get it, the faster you turn over a tank, the more potential profit so time is def money
 
BongoYodeler said:
Love Moonraker, great hazy's and wcipa's. We get some locally at a Whole Foods type of market with a great beer selection, here on the central coast. I've also ordered directly from the brewery. Crazy because the beer ordered was brewed on a Tuesday, ordered Wednesday, and at my door by noon on Thursday. I'm about 5-6 hours from the brewery.
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I just recently did a trade with a guy that lives close to there and had some of their wc style ipas, a Czech Pilsner, Czech dark, and a hazy. All were solid. I thought the Pilsner was the absolute best beer.
 
Dgallo said:
I just recently did a trade with a guy that lives close to there and had some of their wc style ipas, a Czech Pilsner, Czech dark, and a hazy. All were solid. I thought the Pilsner was the absolute best beer.
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Our local market only seems to get their ipa's, but I'll keep my eyes open to see if that changes.
 
Dgallo said:
i bet it has nothing to do with speed. Id assume they use it as it prevents hopcreep to form diacetyl
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See the Murphy article, which is mostly pushing it as a way to reduce lagering time, and a secondary use in reducing diacetyl in hoppy beers.

And note - ALDC does not prevent hopcreep, it's just that the extra fermentation resulting from hopcreep can lead to additional diacetyl precursors, and ALDC turns those precursors into something that no longer turns into diacetyl. It's about managing the side-effects of hopcreep, not hopcreep itself.
 
Northern_Brewer said:
See the Murphy article, which is mostly pushing it as a way to reduce lagering time, and a secondary use in reducing diacetyl in hoppy beers.

And note - ALDC does not prevent hopcreep, it's just that the extra fermentation resulting from hopcreep can lead to additional diacetyl precursors, and ALDC turns those precursors into something that no longer turns into diacetyl. It's about managing the side-effects of hopcreep, not hopcreep itself
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Absolutely. I didn’t articulate my comment well enough. I was trying to say it prevents the hopcreep from producing vdk but I can see how the original wording could be confusing.

That said, i still think if your process and fermentation schedule are being utilized to clean up vdk at the tail end of fermentation, this product won’t speed anything up.

That said I know a lot of pros are spunding, which could be where the difference is. Either way, eliminating vdk is a good thing lol
 
Sorry to shift gears but question on dry hopping. If you did moderate pressure fermentation with spunding valve on corny keg would the CO2 in solution help offer some protection if you carefully cracked lid and added dry hop? Would also flush headspace with CO2 afterwards
 

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