New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[wepeeler]

Ah ok, I see. It was my first time ordering their hops as they seemed to be the only online retailer who had Nectaron and the time and was unsure of their quality.

The beers I made turned out pretty good but not mind blowing. That’s why I asked if they were worth it.

Well, I got my Cascade on sale at Morebeer for $12.99/lb. Not sure I'd want to spend $40/lb for Citra

 

[James Quall]

Well, I got my Cascade on sale at Morebeer for $12.99/lb. Not sure I'd want to spend $40/lb for Citra

Nectaron is $40/lb not Citra.

 

[wepeeler]

Nectaron is $40/lb not Citra.

Citra is $2.65/oz on the Artisan Hops website. That translates to $42.50/lb. I see it for $23/lb on YVVH and $27/lb at brewhardware.

 

[James Quall]

Citra is $2.65/oz on the Artisan Hops website. That translates to $42.50/lb. I see it for $23/lb on YVVH and $27/lb at brewhardware.

I got Nectaron from Artisan Hops a while back not Citra. I was responding to what he posted on Yakima Valley Hops, where Nectaron is ~2x the price of Citra.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Citra is $2.65/oz on the Artisan Hops website. That translates to $42.50/lb. I see it for $23/lb on YVVH and $27/lb at brewhardware.

Yeah but you can't compare $/oz with $/lb, the US seems to particularly skew against small amounts. It's interesting, one thing that struck me about drinking in the US is that 2 halves can cost quite a bit more than a pint, whereas here there's a lot of pressure to charge pro-rata even though obviously there's an element of fixed cost that goes into getting a glass of beer onto the bar.

For comparison, even after it's transported to the UK, BarthHaas will sell you 5kg (11lb) of Citra T90 for US$11-17/lb, depending on vintage. Doesn't make for a fair comparison though. For comparison you can get 100g retail of 2022 Citra for about US$33+tax/lb (but going from 50g to 1kg only ranges from $32-36/lb in that example). 100g of Nectaron works out at US$48+tax/lb.

 

[wepeeler]

Yeah but you can't compare $/oz with $/lb, the US seems to particularly skew against small amounts.

For comparison, even after it's transported to the UK, BarthHaas will sell you 5kg (11lb) of Citra T90 for US$11-17/lb, depending on vintage. Doesn't make for a fair comparison though. For comparison you can get 100g retail for about US$33+tax/lb (but going from 50g to 1kg only ranges from $32-36/lb in that example). For comparison 100g of Nectaron works out at US$48+tax/lb.

It's interesting, one thing that struck me about drinking in the US is that 2 halves can cost quite a bit more than a pint, whereas here there's a lot of pressure to charge pro-rata even though obviously there's an element of fixed cost that goes into getting a glass of beer onto the bar.

I agree. I was just doing a simple math comparison because Artisan Hops doesn't sell by the lb on their website. They list price by the oz. Hops

And yes, I agree it is very weird the way smaller beers are priced significantly higher in the US. It should 100% be prorated. You can routinely get a full pint for $1-2 more than say a 8-12oz pour.

 

[balrog]

that 2 halves can cost quite a bit more than a pint

Beer being served in quantities less than a pint? Is that even allowed?

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Beer being served in quantities less than a pint? Is that even allowed?

It takes some getting used to when you come from a country with 20oz pints, I can tell you!

 

[CascadesBrewer]

It takes some getting used to when you come from a country with 20oz pints, I can tell you!

When you come from a country where any beer under 6.5% ABV is considered a session beer, it is nice when a venue has reasonably priced 8 to 12 oz options. I go to one bar with a great tap selection, but their formula is always that the half pour is $2 less than the full pour. That is maybe okay when it is $6 vs $4, but at $10 vs $8, well, looks like I am getting a full pour of that 11% stout.

 

[InspectorJon]

It looks like Berkeley Yeast have a number of "Diacetyl Free" strains, included a few for Hazies

Moonraker brewery is kind of famous for their hazies around here (Auburn, California). Their brewer tells me they use Berkeley Yeast’s LA III strain, which is genetically modified not to produce diacetyl. Their main motivation seems to be faster process because no D rest.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

When you come from a country where any beer under 6.5% ABV is considered a session beer, it is nice when a venue has reasonably priced 8 to 12 oz options.

Hey, I'm often driving, and if I'm not I usually like to try as many beers as I can, particularly if I'm overseas, so in the US my usual order is two halves, I'm with you.

I go to one bar with a great tap selection, but their formula is always that the half pour is $2 less than the full pour. That is maybe okay when it is $6 vs $4, but at $10 vs $8, well, looks like I am getting a full pour of that 11% stout.

That can't end well...

But wow - I originally read this as two halves costing the same as a pint + $2, which seems quite common Stateside - but that way is just nuts. I quite like something Cloudwater do, which is to charge the same for everything, but different volumes. So for say £5($6) you get either a (20oz) pint of session beer, 2/3 pint of mid-strength IPA etc, or 1/3 of imperial stout - it works great for rounds.

 

[Dgallo]

Moonraker brewery is kind of famous for their hazies around here (Auburn, California). Their brewer tells me they use Berkeley Yeast’s LA III strain, which is genetically modified not to produce diacetyl. Their main motivation seems to be faster process because no D rest.

i bet it has nothing to do with speed. Id assume they use it as it prevents hopcreep to form diacetyl

 

[InspectorJon]

i bet it has nothing to do with speed. Id assume they use it as it prevents hopcreep to form diacetyl

Well the brewer told me they use it so they can turn their fermenters around a couple days faster and not have to do a D rest. They used to use A38. They sell the vast majority of their beer through onsite pours.

I don’t think they do any distribution other than the cans they sell out of the brewery. I have never seen it in stores or bars. They do sell cans at the brewery and often sell out of unique releases pretty fast. The hazy craze has subsided and they don’t seem to sell out to waiting lines on release day anymore. They still make a really nice beer and worth going out of the way some to have a taste.

 

[BongoYodeler]

Love Moonraker, great hazy's and wcipa's. We get some locally at a Whole Foods type of market with a great beer selection, here on the central coast. I've also ordered directly from the brewery. Crazy because the beer ordered was brewed on a Tuesday, ordered Wednesday, and at my door by noon on Thursday. I'm about 5-6 hours from the brewery.

 

[Dgallo]

Well the brewer told me they use it so they can turn their fermenters around a couple days faster and not have to do a D rest. They used to use A38. They sell the vast majority of their beer through onsite pours.

I don’t think they do any distribution other than the cans they sell out of the brewery. I have never seen it in stores or bars. They do sell cans at the brewery and often sell out of unique releases pretty fast. The hazy craze has subsided and they don’t seem to sell out to waiting lines on release day anymore. They still make a really nice beer and worth going out of the way some to have a taste.

Just seems weird as they should be performing a d-rest during fermentation and bringing the tailend of ferm up to 70-72 If not there on its own and making sure they are at fg for 48 hours prior to packaging anyway which would clean up any diacetyl. I guess you’d have to know there exact process and pitch rate to know what type of time their able to shave down. I mean I do get it, the faster you turn over a tank, the more potential profit so time is def money

 

[Dgallo]

Love Moonraker, great hazy's and wcipa's. We get some locally at a Whole Foods type of market with a great beer selection, here on the central coast. I've also ordered directly from the brewery. Crazy because the beer ordered was brewed on a Tuesday, ordered Wednesday, and at my door by noon on Thursday. I'm about 5-6 hours from the brewery.

I just recently did a trade with a guy that lives close to there and had some of their wc style ipas, a Czech Pilsner, Czech dark, and a hazy. All were solid. I thought the Pilsner was the absolute best beer.

 

[BongoYodeler]

I just recently did a trade with a guy that lives close to there and had some of their wc style ipas, a Czech Pilsner, Czech dark, and a hazy. All were solid. I thought the Pilsner was the absolute best beer.

Our local market only seems to get their ipa's, but I'll keep my eyes open to see if that changes.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

i bet it has nothing to do with speed. Id assume they use it as it prevents hopcreep to form diacetyl

See the Murphy article, which is mostly pushing it as a way to reduce lagering time, and a secondary use in reducing diacetyl in hoppy beers.

And note - ALDC does not prevent hopcreep, it's just that the extra fermentation resulting from hopcreep can lead to additional diacetyl precursors, and ALDC turns those precursors into something that no longer turns into diacetyl. It's about managing the side-effects of hopcreep, not hopcreep itself.

 

[Dgallo]

See the Murphy article, which is mostly pushing it as a way to reduce lagering time, and a secondary use in reducing diacetyl in hoppy beers.

And note - ALDC does not prevent hopcreep, it's just that the extra fermentation resulting from hopcreep can lead to additional diacetyl precursors, and ALDC turns those precursors into something that no longer turns into diacetyl. It's about managing the side-effects of hopcreep, not hopcreep itself

Absolutely. I didn’t articulate my comment well enough. I was trying to say it prevents the hopcreep from producing vdk but I can see how the original wording could be confusing.

That said, i still think if your process and fermentation schedule are being utilized to clean up vdk at the tail end of fermentation, this product won’t speed anything up.

That said I know a lot of pros are spunding, which could be where the difference is. Either way, eliminating vdk is a good thing lol

 

[mijclarke]

Sorry to shift gears but question on dry hopping. If you did moderate pressure fermentation with spunding valve on corny keg would the CO2 in solution help offer some protection if you carefully cracked lid and added dry hop? Would also flush headspace with CO2 afterwards

 

[Dgallo]

Sorry to shift gears but question on dry hopping. If you did moderate pressure fermentation with spunding valve on corny keg would the CO2 in solution help offer some protection if you carefully cracked lid and added dry hop? Would also flush headspace with CO2 afterwards

Be careful dryhoping carbonated beer. The hops will produces millions of nucleation points and you might have an absolute eruption lol

Your going to have to be ready to get those hops in, in one shot and then close the lid as fast as possible.

 

[beervoid]

Sorry to shift gears but question on dry hopping. If you did moderate pressure fermentation with spunding valve on corny keg would the CO2 in solution help offer some protection if you carefully cracked lid and added dry hop? Would also flush headspace with CO2 afterwards

Works fine, I've been doing that for a long time with great results. I would pressurize to 40psi and release about 4x.

 

[beervoid]

Make sure when you spund to do it later in the process and keep it below 4psi.

 

[ihavenonickname]

1.076 -> 1.017
Ca 91 Mg 8 Na 60 Cl 215 SO 37
Overnight step, B40 with bag.
Mash pH: 5.39
Boil pH 5.2
Post Boil 5.0 I like this effect

Grain (19 lb 4 oz) - Stupidly complex, cleaning out
Pilsner (42.9%)
Oats, Malted (23.4%)
Golden Promise 3 SRM (10.4%)
Wheat Malt (10.4%)
Raw Wheat (7.8%)
Rolled Oats (3.9%)
Wheat Flaked (1.3%)

Hops (6oz + incognito, 15oz)
30 min - 0.2 oz - Idaho #7 - 13.5% (5 IBU)
10 min - 1 oz - Citra - 13% (13 IBU)
15 min hopstand @ 180 °F
2 oz - Idaho #7
3 oz - Citra
20g Citra Incognito
^ 20 grams dissolved into the fermenter with 1L hot wort

Dry Hops - post cold crash to 45F 3 days, @ 50F for 24 hours, hard shaking DH keg X5
7 oz - Motueka
4 oz - Mosaic
4 oz - Citra Lupomax



Pure o2, Cellar Science Hazy two packs direct pitch. I might like this more than verdant and it’s cheap.

My most hop saturated beer I’ve made, maybe that I’ve had. Really like the hop combo, punchy/ pungent aroma and flavor. Citrus, lime, pithy, little diesel, pineapple clear gummy bears. I really like how I did just about everything with this, haha lots a small new improvements to my process and recipe here. Probably I could do a smaller WP addition, the pre DH samples of this beer were nothing special. DH saturation is great, maybe agitated too much, over saturated, not complaining.



Edit formatting

 

[CascadesBrewer]

Pure o2, Cellar Science Hazy two packs direct pitch. I might like this more than verdant and it’s cheap.

I have not read much about this yeast. It is on my radar to try. I wonder if it is similar to Verdant or New England, or another dry yeast. My guess it is this yeast from AEB: Fermoale new-e | AEB US

 

[aaronm13]

I have not read much about this yeast. It is on my radar to try. I wonder if it is similar to Verdant or New England, or another dry yeast. My guess it is this yeast from AEB: Fermoale new-e | AEB US

The source of that AEB strain is Boddingtons so its LA3/Verdant.

 

[Adam Zerwick]

Dry Hops - post cold crash to 45F 3 days, @ 50F for 24 hours, hard shaking DH keg X5

Saturated! That's something I strive for...

When you say hard shaking, I imagine a bartender shaking a cocktail. Could you elaborate on what your hard shaking looks like?

If I understand correctly you are chilling the beer to 45F for 3 days then transferring to a DH keg to dry hop for 1 day. Does the DH keg already have the hops in them or are you opening the lid and tossing them in? Is the DH keg fitted with a floating dip tube or a shortened dip tube? Are you crashing the DH keg at all before transferring to serving keg?

I've gone back and forth with how to dry hop using kegs. Fermentation CO2 purge the DH keg loaded with hops vs. transfer beer into DH keg then open lid toss in hops. I currently have a hazy pale ale fermenting that I plan on dry hopping by opening the lid of the DH keg. I'll likely add about .1g Kmeta to the dry hop as well as purge the head space after dry hopping.

 

[Dgallo]

Getting really excited for Friday. The beer I collaborated and brewed at The Warbler is being released on tap and in cans on Cinco De Mayo

 

[aaronm13]

Getting really excited for Friday. The beer I collaborated and brewed at The Warbler is being released on tap and in cans on Cinco De Mayo View attachment 819169

best of luck with the beer launch.

 

[ihavenonickname]

Saturated! That's something I strive for...

When you say hard shaking, I imagine a bartender shaking a cocktail. Could you elaborate on what your hard shaking looks like?

If I understand correctly you are chilling the beer to 45F for 3 days then transferring to a DH keg to dry hop for 1 day. Does the DH keg already have the hops in them or are you opening the lid and tossing them in? Is the DH keg fitted with a floating dip tube or a shortened dip tube? Are you crashing the DH keg at all before transferring to serving keg?

I've gone back and forth with how to dry hop using kegs. Fermentation CO2 purge the DH keg loaded with hops vs. transfer beer into DH keg then open lid toss in hops. I currently have a hazy pale ale fermenting that I plan on dry hopping by opening the lid of the DH keg. I'll likely add about .1g Kmeta to the dry hop as well as purge the head space after dry hopping.

I’m a pretty lazy brewer and like to keep things idiot proof. I use floating dip tubes with filters and cold crash under pressure for a day before transfers. This minimizes my losses really well I never deal with a clog, never have to worry if my diptube is the right height, if I’ve dumped enough trub, or if I should be using an inline filter. I have a unitank that I never use any more bc this is just easier for the same results with less/the same losses.

Dry hop keg is a 7 gallon sanke with a 4” triclamp on top. I use a lid with a TC port, BV, hop bong to dry hop. I use fermentation to purge the DH keg and the serving keg. I cold crash after ferment, transfer to DH keg, while it’s transferring I set up the hop doser and let the co2 from the DH keg purge my hops and then add DH that day.

To shake I lay it on its side and roll it back and forth for 30 seconds.

Some bigger breweries will DH with a pump and inject the hops and circulate for a few hours. They say they get full extraction after a couple hours this way because there is so much agitation. So thats what I think I’m accomplishing with short contact times and lots of agitation.

All that to say I can’t tell you for sure I get better results this way than just tossing in the hops with Co2 flowing into the tank, that method works really well. But I do it this way bc I love the results and I can’t mess it up!