New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[bailey mountain brewer]

Anyone use ALDC with success or lack of success in this style. Not sure I want to sink the money in it and I typically dont have much of an issue but my last batch had a touch of hop burn.

 

[Dgallo]

Anyone use ALDC with success or lack of success in this style. Not sure I want to sink the money in it and I typically dont have much of an issue but my last batch had a touch of hop burn.

Are you have king diacetyl issues?

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

I think on my last batch I didn't dump enough yeast and when i roused the hops via co2 in bottom of my conical I think I pushed some yeast along with it, if that makes sense.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

I think on my last batch I didn't dump enough yeast and when i roused the hops via co2 in bottom of my conical I think I pushed some yeast along with it, if that makes sense

Are you have king diacetyl issues?

I could bottle some and send it to you to see what you pick up from it.

 

[Dgallo]

I think on my last batch I didn't dump enough yeast and when i roused the hops via co2 in bottom of my conical I think I pushed some yeast along with it, if that makes sense

I could bottle some and send it to you to see what you pick up from it.

I would definitely try it if you’d like. I’d send you something in return.

Either way if you want to know quickly do a forced diacetyl test. you’ll know without a doubt as It will taste like pure butterscotch

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

I would definitely try it if you’d like. I’d send you something in return.

Either way if you want to know quickly do a forced diacetyl test. you’ll know without a doubt as It will taste like pure butterscotch

Yeah I don't get butterscotch, I think more hop creep, but I'd like to get your opinion, I'll shoot you a pm when I get some time to fill some bottles.

 

[Dgallo]

Yeah I don't get butterscotch, I think more hop creep, but I'd like to get your opinion, I'll shoot you a pm when I get some time to fill some bottles.

Sounds good to me

 

[Noob_Brewer]

Ok, so lets talk ingredients real quick. I have some questions only because I'm planning on brewing for a competition soon. Last year I entered my first competition and submitted my neipa, it placed 2nd in regionals and made the final table at state finals. In the quest to achieve perfection I am thinking of ways to meet the judges suggestions. My process is sound, and my equipment is capable. So here's what I'm debating in my head.

I haven't used lupomax or anything along those lines so I intend to do that along with t90 of course. I typically use briess malts, 2 row, malted oats, white wheat, and so on. I feel briess is good maltster but I'm willing to try something better if there is a superior grain out there that ppl truly believe make better final product. Next is the subject of ALDC I am skeptical but I've read good things here and elsewhere to prevent diacetyl and so on.

Hop combos I really love to play around with and I haven't settled on what I'm going to do with this one yet. I'll have on hand, citra lupomax, citra t90, mosaic, nectaron, galaxy, nelson, and ctz. Probably have others as well.

Any suggestions and experience with anything mentioned above is appreciated.

Regarding grains, I think that Rahr 2-row is the best among the mass produced and available to virtually anybody in the USA IMHO. However, if you are wanting to try different grains, over the past ~6 months, I have become a huge fan of Epiphany Malt (North Carolina). To my knowledge you can only purchase it through Atlantic Brew Supply out of raleigh. For me being in NC, this is no big deal and I've ordered online and gone there to get a sack of their foundation 2-row malt in person (1.5hrs drive for me) when I was in Raleigh for a different reason. If you really want to geek out on malts, I would encourage you to visit their website which includes a ton of cool stuff including their efforts to move towards improving their carbon blueprint. The founder, Sebastian Wolfrum, is from Germany. He worked at Ayinger and later became a certified brewer and maltster in Munich before coming to NC. When reading through Epiphany's website, it becomes clear that they are focused on producing very flavorful malts, even the "generic" 2 row variety. They are all a bit darker due to extended kilning if I were to summarize their approach. I've brewed with their foundation 2-row as well as their munich malt and I've tried (eaten) these along with their pilsner. All of them are VERY flavorful and true to their style.

Warning tangent! Recently I brewed an altbier, and during planning I did a taste test of weyermann's munich type I malt (which I really like) with Epiphany's Munich malt. It was a slam dunk! Although I really couldn't do a blind comparison because they looked so different when I tasted both, Epiphany's was brighter, breadier, and had a better malty sweetness than weyermann's. It really wasn't even close. do think some of this might be due to the fact that I got the weyermann's through more beer and epiphany's just seemed MUCH MUCH fresher as well. the kernels were much more consistent, and not as "dry" looking and broken up as the weyermann's munich Type I from more beer.

So I would encourage you if you are in the mood and have the motivation to improve all of your aspects of your NEIPAs, even if its the "lowly" two row malts, I've become a big fan of Epiphany and since I've started tasting the grains more and more when determining grain composition for any beer, I do believe that this "might" even make a difference in a highly hopped beer such as an NEIPA.

Cheers!

EDIT: I have not had Mecca Grade malts for comparison. I do hope that the buyer of Mecca Grade is as passionate about malts as the founder though. Only heard great things about Mecca Grade.

https://www.epiphanymalt.com/
https://www.atlanticbrewsupply.com/

 

[beervoid]

That sucks. I’ve have really good luck with Citra. The mosaic LUPOMAX I have is pretty dank but good just not as fruity as I hoped

I had high expectations for the lupomax pellets vs cryo.
It seems like a lot of bollocks and marketing as they claim to analyze their lots to make them consistent, guess the equipment used for analyzing them is still vastly superior to handpicking.
Or perhaps their consistency profile of certain hops is not aligned to what I believe is the best profile of that particular hop.

 

[Dgallo]

I had high expectations for the lupomax pellets vs cryo.
It seems like a lot of bollocks and marketing as they claim to analyze their lots to make them consistent, guess the equipment used for analyzing them is still vastly superior to handpicking.
Or perhaps their consistency profile of certain hops is not aligned to what I believe is the best profile of that particular hop.

Could certainly be just marketing on their end and probably is. They are still a t45 type hop so they will be more concentrated than t90.
Regardless of their claim for consistency, theres absolutely no way to have 100% consistent agricultural products grown outdoors year to year. To much is reliant on the growth year and time of harvest.

 

[beervoid]

Could certainly be just marketing on their end and probably is. They are still a t45 type hop so they will be more concentrated than t90.
Regardless of their claim for consistency, theres absolutely no way to have 100% consistent agricultural products grown outdoors year to year. To much is reliant on the growth year and time of harvest.

They claim to analyze the hop lots therefore making it "more consistent".
Too much black magic involved.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

Regarding grains, I think that Rahr 2-row is the best among the mass produced and available to virtually anybody in the USA IMHO. However, if you are wanting to try different grains, over the past ~6 months, I have become a huge fan of Epiphany Malt (North Carolina). To my knowledge you can only purchase it through Atlantic Brew Supply out of raleigh. For me being in NC, this is no big deal and I've ordered online and gone there to get a sack of their foundation 2-row malt in person (1.5hrs drive for me) when I was in Raleigh for a different reason. If you really want to geek out on malts, I would encourage you to visit their website which includes a ton of cool stuff including their efforts to move towards improving their carbon blueprint. The founder, Sebastian Wolfrum, is from Germany. He worked at Ayinger and later became a certified brewer and maltster in Munich before coming to NC. When reading through Epiphany's website, it becomes clear that they are focused on producing very flavorful malts, even the "generic" 2 row variety. They are all a bit darker due to extended kilning if I were to summarize their approach. I've brewed with their foundation 2-row as well as their munich malt and I've tried (eaten) these along with their pilsner. All of them are VERY flavorful and true to their style.

Warning tangent! Recently I brewed an altbier, and during planning I did a taste test of weyermann's munich type I malt (which I really like) with Epiphany's Munich malt. It was a slam dunk! Although I really couldn't do a blind comparison because they looked so different when I tasted both, Epiphany's was brighter, breadier, and had a better malty sweetness than weyermann's. It really wasn't even close. do think some of this might be due to the fact that I got the weyermann's through more beer and epiphany's just seemed MUCH MUCH fresher as well. the kernels were much more consistent, and not as "dry" looking and broken up as the weyermann's munich Type I from more beer.

So I would encourage you if you are in the mood and have the motivation to improve all of your aspects of your NEIPAs, even if its the "lowly" two row malts, I've become a big fan of Epiphany and since I've started tasting the grains more and more when determining grain composition for any beer, I do believe that this "might" even make a difference in a highly hopped beer such as an NEIPA.

Cheers!

EDIT: I have not had Mecca Grade malts for comparison. I do hope that the buyer of Mecca Grade is as passionate about malts as the founder though. Only heard great things about Mecca Grade.

https://www.epiphanymalt.com/
https://www.atlanticbrewsupply.com/

Dude, thanks for this reply, its exactly what I was looking for. I will definitely look into them, sounds excellent.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

Dude, thanks for this reply, its exactly what I was looking for. I will definitely look into them, sounds excellent.

I enjoy playing with different malts and using craft malts. I am just not convinced that the common advice that more flavor = better. More often than not, with a Pilsner or American 2-row, I would rather have a more neutral and clean base malt that I can then enhance myself with a little malt like Munich, Aromatic or Honey Malt.

Some of the Weyermann Pilsners are great for making German or Czech Pilsners, but have flavors that I don't like in the types of beers I make. Avangard Pils is a very nice clean, light colored, neutral Pils. I love the biscuit and nutty character from Crisp Maris Otter in English styles, but I really just do not like that character in American Pale Ales, IPAs or NEIPAs.

I do like Rahr's 2-Row, and I wish I had easier access. I find that it adds just a touch of a grainy, whole wheat bread character that works well in most beers and separates it from a neutral Pilsner malt. My last 2 bags of 2-Row were Montana Craft Malt (mostly due to price and availability) and it seems comparable to Rahr. I just got a bag of Murphy & Rude 2-Row, but I have not cracked it open yet. When I made some single malt beers, I found that Briess 2-Row had a bit of a straw/hay character that I did not care for, but some people at my club really liked.

 

[secretlevel]

Anyone use ALDC with success or lack of success in this style. Not sure I want to sink the money in it and I typically dont have much of an issue but my last batch had a touch of hop burn.

ALDC is kind of like insurance, you don't taste it, but if your beer gets packaged and warms up, then you won't want refermentation.
Based on the latest CB&B Pods, Kelsey McNair (North Park) and Evan Price (Green Cheek) said that they use it, with North Park winning multiple hoppy beer golds at GABF. That's enough of a use case for me...

Kelsey also mentioned that they intentionally add a small hop load at the end of fermentation just so that they get the enzyme into the wort before the fermentation is complete. I do something similar by adding less than half of my hop load at the last point or so, and in this scenario you likely won't need ALDC. This is another solid insurance against hop creep, since the enzyme is still added into the beer at cold temperatures at Dry Hop, and it can then trigger refermentation when someone keeps the bottle/can at room temp.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

Thanks guys, I really appreciate the input. I have a couple weeks to round up what I need for the batch and now I have some things to chew on.

 

[aaronm13]

Anyone use ALDC with success or lack of success in this style. Not sure I want to sink the money in it and I typically dont have much of an issue but my last batch had a touch of hop burn.

I got some today so will use it for the first time this weekend. Doing a BIPA with WLP002, which is very prone to diacetyl so should get a good test. Guidelines say to use 0.2g-1g per 5G of wort. Thats a bit of a broad range of dosage so not sure how much to use, probably just shoot in the middle at 0.6g.

Anyone who has use ALDC, what is your typical dosage for a 5G batch?

 

[secretlevel]

I got some today so will use it for the first time this weekend. Doing a BIPA with WLP002, which is very prone to diacetyl so should get a good test. Guidelines say to use 0.2g-1g per 5G of wort. Thats a bit of a broad range of dosage so not sure how much to use, probably just shoot in the middle at 0.6g.

Anyone who has use ALDC, what is your typical dosage for a 5G batch?

CellarScience say use 1 dropper (1oz) for 5 gallons.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

Based on the latest CB&B Pods, Kelsey McNair (North Park) and Evan Price (Green Cheek) said that they use it, with North Park winning multiple hoppy beer golds at GABF. That's enough of a use case for me...

At least one of them said in one of the podcasts that they were using a modified Chico strain. Maybe Chico DF from Berkeley Yeast? It looks like Berkeley Yeast have a number of "Diacetyl Free" strains, included a few for Hazies:
https://berkeleyyeast.com/available-yeast-strains/
BTW, it was interesting how these brewers that have been looked at as the best in their craft at making IPAs for a decade or two are still talking about constant process improvements and things they were doing "wrong" just a few years ago. In the two episodes, there was very little talk about recipes or specific ingredients, but a LOT of talk about process.
https://berkeleyyeast.com/available-yeast-strains/#

 

[aaronm13]

CellarScience say use 1 dropper (1oz) for 5 gallons.

Wow, 1oz. That's a bit of a difference from the dosage I read.

TMM ALDC 15ml – Alpha Acetolactate Decarboxylase - The Malt Miller

 

[Northern_Brewer]

ALDC is kind of like insurance, you don't taste it, but if your beer gets packaged and warms up, then you won't want refermentation.
Based on the latest CB&B Pods, Kelsey McNair (North Park) and Evan Price (Green Cheek) said that they use it, with North Park winning multiple hoppy beer golds at GABF. That's enough of a use case for me...

Cloudwater were certainly using ALDC 5 years ago, around the time that they came second to Hill Farmstead in the Ratebeer awards :
https://cloudwaterbrew.co/blog/2018/4/30/how-far-we-have-come
Just to be clear - ALDC is nothing to do with "hop burn", it breaks down the diacetyl precursor and that's all. You only need it if your beer is turning out buttery, or you want to speed up lager maturation. Murphys were one of the pioneers of it here, they recommend 3-4g per hectolitre in ales (less in lager), so about 0.7g in 5 US gallons.
https://www.murphyandson.co.uk/diacetyl-control-use-aldc-to-brew-the-beer-you-intended/
Supposedly one of the Cloudwater founders is a diacetyl supertaster, which is why they were/are so paranoid about VDKs.

 

[secretlevel]

Wow, 1oz. That's a bit of a difference from the dosage I read.

TMM ALDC 15ml – Alpha Acetolactate Decarboxylase - The Malt Miller

Sorry, the package is 1oz. I suck at words.

" Use:
Packaged in 1 oz dropper bottle. Add to fermenter at time of yeast pitching or dry hopping at a rate of 1 dropper full per 5 gallons. The dropper contains approximately 35 doses."

 

[aaronm13]

Sorry, the package is 1oz. I suck at reading.

" Use:
Packaged in 1 oz dropper bottle. Add to fermenter at time of yeast pitching or dry hopping at a rate of 1 dropper full per 5 gallons. The dropper contains approximately 35 doses."

Ha, that makes more sense. Thanks.

 

[Dgallo]

Yakima Valley Hops

 

[Dgallo]

.

 

[James Quall]

Yakima Valley Hops View attachment 818582

I got some from Artisan Hops and they were good. Do you think they are worth it at double the price of something like Citra?

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

I got some from Artisan Hops and they were good. Do you think they are worth it at double the price of something like Citra?

Yep

 

[wepeeler]

Mecca Grade malts are out of stock at Northern Brewer Doesn't show that Mecca has sold yet, but I'm sure production has slowed, and people are buying up whatever they can. I'm super bummed out.

@James Quall Just had some really good Cascade from Artisan Hops!

 

[James Quall]

Mecca Grade malts are out of stock at Northern Brewer Doesn't show that Mecca has sold yet, but I'm sure production has slowed, and people are buying up whatever they can. I'm super bummed out.

@James Quall Just had some really good Cascade from Artisan Hops!

I’m so confused by this comment.

Are you saying what I ordered was Cascade instead of Nectaron?

 

[wepeeler]

I’m so confused by this comment.

Are you saying what I ordered was Cascade instead of Nectaron?

No, sorry. I was saying Artisan Hops sells great hops! I just went through a pound of Cascade in 3 beers!

 

[James Quall]

No, sorry. I was saying Artisan Hops sells great hops! I just went through a pound of Cascade in 3 beers!

Ah ok, I see. It was my first time ordering their hops as they seemed to be the only online retailer who had Nectaron and the time and was unsure of their quality.

The beers I made turned out pretty good but not mind blowing. That’s why I asked if they were worth it.