New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[Sbe2]

could you share your water profile with RO water? Specifically how much gypsum and CaCl you added? Thanks.

Check out the first post in the thread, braufesor has some rough estimates

 

[cheesebach]

Can you share with us your exact process from grain to glass?

Sure - it's Friday afternoon though, so I'll probably leave out something important along the way, but this is pretty much how my brew day with this recipe went:

Recipe: As on post #1418 with the following changes:
- All Citra/Galaxy/Mosaic hop additions changed to just Citra & Galaxy. Total amount of hops kept unchanged
- Used WLP095 yeast

Water profile from Bru'n Water (using 100% RO water):
Ca: 101
Mg: 4
Na: 15
SO4: 120
Cl: 116
Estimated mash ph: 5.44
Measured end of mash pH: 5.37

Measured OG: 1.064
Measured FG: 1.015

1) Measure & start heating strike water (for full volume, no sparge)
2) Measure and add gypsum, CaCl, epsom salt, canning salt
3) Crush malted grains (flaked grains left uncrushed)
4) Hit strike temp at 160.5F, wrap in kettle in reflectix
5) Line kettle with BIAB bag, and dough in
6) Check temp (154.5F) and cover
7) Mash for 45 minutes
8) Check final mash temp (152.7F)
9) Pull and hang grain bag to drain over the kettle on the burner using pulley. Take samples for pH and gravity readings
10) Start burner, stirring every 1-2 minutes
11) Reach boil about 20-25 minutes after pulling the bag, wait for hot break
12) Add hops and set timer for 60min
13) Add whirlfloc and wyeast yeast nutrient with 10 minutes left. Put immersion chiller in pot to sterilize
14) Add flameout hops (I toss them in loose), cut heat
15) Start running water through chiller (maybe 1 minute after flameout)
16) Stop water when temp gets to 160F. This was my first time doing a hop stand in this way, and i noticed my temp continued to drop down to just above 150F from the cool water still sitting in the chiller.
17) Add hopstand hops, stir, and cover with stirring every 5ish minutes
18) After 30 minutes, continue chilling all the way down to 65F
19) Let sit for 30-45 minutes, transfer to corny keg for fermenting (I scaled down from my usual 5g batch size to 3G to experiment with keg fermenting on this particular brew day)
20) Pitch 1 vial of WLP095 yeast into 3g 1.064 wort @65F (decided starter shouldn't be necessary for the small batch with a fresh vial of yeast)
21) Start fermentation at 65F, slowly begin raising temp to 69F over a few days beginning around day 3. I control temps by sticking the probe to the side of the fermenter (keg) using a blob of plumbers putty in a chest freezer.
22) Day 4 - add dry hop #1 (fermentation has already slowed down considerably, but there is still a bubble every 15-20s or so coming from the blow off tube
23) Day 9 - add dry hop #2, same keg
24) Day 12 - hook up CO2 at ~2psi, start cold crash to 36F
25) After a day and a half, push beer to purged serving keg using CO2
26) Move to kegerator set co2 to 12psi with fridge kept at 41F
27) 1 week later... beer! But it's a lot clearer than I was expecting:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=7785231&postcount=2020

 

[NYY]

Thanks for the feedback on adding some dank hops.

I'm leaning toward 1:1:1 Citra, mosaic, Columbus for my next batch with all four additions. Hopefully that will give a nice fruit/dank balance

Just a quick note on how this turned out. I ended up essentially replacing Galaxy with Columbus per the original recipe. Mashed at 155 as opposed to my first batch at 153. I'm loving the results. Was a little disappointed at first as the taste was a little harsh. But after a few days it is really nice. Different than the original. Not a juicy. However, a very solid NE IPA if your looking to change things up.

 

[plazola86]

could you share your water profile with RO water? Specifically how much gypsum and CaCl you added? Thanks.

I need to check beer smith for exact weight quantity and gallons used. I'm out of town this weekend but I'll check ASAP. On this batch I shot for calcium 100ppm, sulfate 250ppm, chloride 100ppm. I just brewed a another NE style that I'm fermenting with funk weapon#2. I went opposite with chloride 300ppm, sulfate 50ppm and it still came out hazy and murky not sure how much water plays in appearance with this style.

 

[Cavpilot2000]

Thanks for the feedback - I'm probably leaning towards skipping the whirlfloc the next time. I tried searching this thread for other posts relating to the use of whirlfloc, and it seems there are roughly equal numbers that use it to the ones that don't. I'm guessing that it does play some role in the clarity from the comments I've read, although you can find a few quite hazy examples in this thread that did use it. I can't think of any other things I could change in my process though that would lead the beer to be hazy going into the fermenter, as it seems is the case for many here. The other thing I'll likely change is doing the dry hop closer to the day 2-3 mark when fermentation is still chugging along at a good pace, rather than when its winding down at day 4 like I did last time.

So is the issue that you're getting clear beer when you want haze?

 

[cheesebach]

So is the issue that you're getting clear beer when you want haze?

Without having tried what others here have produced with the same recipe in a blind test, it's hard to say for sure if it was "wrong" for any reason other than appearance. However, my attempt at this recipe didn't jump out to me as being different in any significant way from other IPAs and APAs I've done that used a lot of late additions and dry hops with the typical juicy/tropical hops. It was still one of my favorite IPAs I've made, but I think it would have stuck out a bit in say a flight of Trillium beers. So my taste buds are telling me that the lack of haze is just a symptom of something not quite right that needs to be fixed in my process for this style.

 

[leesmith]

Sure - it's Friday afternoon though, so I'll probably leave out something important along the way, but this is pretty much how my brew day with this recipe went:

Recipe: As on post #1418 with the following changes:
- All Citra/Galaxy/Mosaic hop additions changed to just Citra & Galaxy. Total amount of hops kept unchanged
- Used WLP095 yeast

Water profile from Bru'n Water (using 100% RO water):
Ca: 101
Mg: 4
Na: 15
SO4: 120
Cl: 116
Estimated mash ph: 5.44
Measured end of mash pH: 5.37

Measured OG: 1.064
Measured FG: 1.015

1) Measure & start heating strike water (for full volume, no sparge)
2) Measure and add gypsum, CaCl, epsom salt, canning salt
3) Crush malted grains (flaked grains left uncrushed)
4) Hit strike temp at 160.5F, wrap in kettle in reflectix
5) Line kettle with BIAB bag, and dough in
6) Check temp (154.5F) and cover
7) Mash for 45 minutes
8) Check final mash temp (152.7F)
9) Pull and hang grain bag to drain over the kettle on the burner using pulley. Take samples for pH and gravity readings
10) Start burner, stirring every 1-2 minutes
11) Reach boil about 20-25 minutes after pulling the bag, wait for hot break
12) Add hops and set timer for 60min
13) Add whirlfloc and wyeast yeast nutrient with 10 minutes left. Put immersion chiller in pot to sterilize
14) Add flameout hops (I toss them in loose), cut heat
15) Start running water through chiller (maybe 1 minute after flameout)
16) Stop water when temp gets to 160F. This was my first time doing a hop stand in this way, and i noticed my temp continued to drop down to just above 150F from the cool water still sitting in the chiller.
17) Add hopstand hops, stir, and cover with stirring every 5ish minutes
18) After 30 minutes, continue chilling all the way down to 65F
19) Let sit for 30-45 minutes, transfer to corny keg for fermenting (I scaled down from my usual 5g batch size to 3G to experiment with keg fermenting on this particular brew day)
20) Pitch 1 vial of WLP095 yeast into 3g 1.064 wort @65F (decided starter shouldn't be necessary for the small batch with a fresh vial of yeast)
21) Start fermentation at 65F, slowly begin raising temp to 69F over a few days beginning around day 3. I control temps by sticking the probe to the side of the fermenter (keg) using a blob of plumbers putty in a chest freezer.
22) Day 4 - add dry hop #1 (fermentation has already slowed down considerably, but there is still a bubble every 15-20s or so coming from the blow off tube
23) Day 9 - add dry hop #2, same keg
24) Day 12 - hook up CO2 at ~2psi, start cold crash to 36F
25) After a day and a half, push beer to purged serving keg using CO2
26) Move to kegerator set co2 to 12psi with fridge kept at 41F
27) 1 week later... beer! But it's a lot clearer than I was expecting:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=7785231&postcount=2020

Seems pretty solid.
Do you dry hop in a bag or throw them in loose?
If in a bag do you shake the keg at all?
Whirlfloc...from what I've read should be added closer to 5 min....any longer and it starts to denature.
From my last beer I'm starting to think the haze can be achieved by just dry hopping at the end with a lot of hops....this early hopping I think may be for naught.
Brulosopy podcast talked about how the same wort without trub wasn't as clear as the one with all the trub at the end of fermentation.
I'll think about this for a while and see if I can come up with anything.

 

[mintyice]

Without having tried what others here have produced with the same recipe in a blind test, it's hard to say for sure if it was "wrong" for any reason other than appearance. However, my attempt at this recipe didn't jump out to me as being different in any significant way from other IPAs and APAs I've done that used a lot of late additions and dry hops with the typical juicy/tropical hops. It was still one of my favorite IPAs I've made, but I think it would have stuck out a bit in say a flight of Trillium beers. So my taste buds are telling me that the lack of haze is just a symptom of something not quite right that needs to be fixed in my process for this style.

Try a yeast that isn't WLP095.

 

[cheesebach]

Seems pretty solid.
Do you dry hop in a bag or throw them in loose?

Thanks for the feedback - I throw my hops in loose at every step. So far, I've found that as long as I tilt my fementer and cold crash for a day (under CO2), I can avoid getting much hop material into the serving keg. I make all my dry hop additions in the primary.

Whirlfloc...from what I've read should be added closer to 5 min....any longer and it starts to denature.

I'm not sure if what's on the package I bought from Austin Homebrew is correct/best, but the instructions just say to add during the last 15 minutes of the boil. Could try moving it to 5, but I'm leaning towards just skipping it next time I do a NEIPA.

From my last beer I'm starting to think the haze can be achieved by just dry hopping at the end with a lot of hops....this early hopping I think may be for naught.

Do you say this just for haze considerations? It seems many think a lot of the uniqueness in this style comes from the interaction between the dry hops and yeast during active fermentation. Just curious what your experience has been with the early vs. late additions.

Try a yeast that isn't WLP095.

Thanks for the suggestion - I agree that I could probably get more haze with a different yeast. In particular, WY1318 seems to always give a hazy beer. I did really enjoy the aroma and fruit flavors I got from the combination of WLP095 and citra/galaxy in this beer, but I'm not sure how much impact was from the yeast vs. purely the hops. Do you have experience with WLP095 that would lead you to avoid using it in this style?

It seems @stickyfinger really likes WLP095 in these beers and gets a good amount of haze with it, so there's probably still something else in my process I could tweak in my process to get me the result I'm looking for. Trying 1318 and conan are on my to-do list, but for my next go at this, I may try to limit my adjustments to process tweaks (no whirlfloc, dry hop on day 2-3) and maybe a different hop combo and see where that gets me. I think the impact of the whirlfloc on the haze should be evident in the post-boil hydrometer sample, since the last time I brewed this it was quite clear after the boil after giving it some time to settle.

 

[crusader1612]

Seems pretty solid.

Do you dry hop in a bag or throw them in loose?

If in a bag do you shake the keg at all?

Whirlfloc...from what I've read should be added closer to 5 min....any longer and it starts to denature.

From my last beer I'm starting to think the haze can be achieved by just dry hopping at the end with a lot of hops....this early hopping I think may be for naught.

Brulosopy podcast talked about how the same wort without trub wasn't as clear as the one with all the trub at the end of fermentation.

I'll think about this for a while and see if I can come up with anything.

Agreed. Looks like a solid process. I say just enjoy it how it is. So what if it's clearer than expected, as long as it's tasty.
The whole must have more haze is OTT IMO.
SomE haze seems to be present so just enjoy

 

[leesmith]

Thanks for the feedback - I throw my hops in loose at every step. So far, I've found that as long as I tilt my fementer and cold crash for a day (under CO2), I can avoid getting much hop material into the serving keg. I make all my dry hop additions in the primary.

So your getting good extraction.

This probably has nothing to do with whether your beers hazy or not but I'd imagine the second dry hop on day 9 you just pop the lid and throw the hops in? Then purge? Your more than likely adding a lot of O2 to the beer at this point. You could suspend (or use a filter over the dip tube like some guys) that second dry hop in a purged keg and eliminate some of the oxygen exposure. I've found no detrimental effects of leaving dry hops in the serving keg.

I'm not sure if what's on the package I bought from Austin Homebrew is correct/best, but the instructions just say to add during the last 15 minutes of the boil. Could try moving it to 5, but I'm leaning towards just skipping it next time I do a NEIPA.

I don't think whirlfloc is the cause of your issue but try it without. I've done it both ways and manage to make these beers.

Do you say this just for haze considerations? It seems many think a lot of the uniqueness in this style comes from the interaction between the dry hops and yeast during active fermentation. Just curious what your experience has been with the early vs. late additions.

I'm not convinced of this bio-transformation stuff. I haven't seen any articles testing it with taste tests or experiments to prove or disprove it. I've dry hopped every which way and haven't really noticed any differences. When you add a lot of hops (over an ounce per gallon) I think the one major benefit to dry hopping early is avoiding O2 exposure.

I'm a lazy brewer and if I can get something done in one step vs two I'm gonna do that. This last time I closed transferred the beer on day 7 into a purged keg with the full amount of hops that I would normally split in to two additions. The beer going into the dry hop keg (also the SV) was clear like the beer picture you posted in this thread a while back. The beer sat at room temp where I gave it a good shake a couple times a day for three days and then I threw it into the fridge to carb for a week; beer came out hazier than normal and I got it done in one shot. Smelled great and tasted good.

I also used a spunding valve to check the pressure of the SV every now and then while dry hopping. It finally topped out at 15 psi. Not sure if this indicates fermentation or just off gassing but it makes me feel better knowing that possibly the remaining yeast in suspension could have been consuming any O2 that remained in the keg.

 

[mintyice]

Pro tip to anyone using hop hash. Break up your nugs! I only split it in half and it didn't entirely dissolve during the boil. It broke down into smaller sticky rocks that were dry in the middle.


This is what they look like straight out of the bag though:

 

[EndOfLine]

So your getting good extraction.

This probably has nothing to do with whether your beers hazy or not but I'd imagine the second dry hop on day 9 you just pop the lid and throw the hops in? Then purge? Your more than likely adding a lot of O2 to the beer at this point. You could suspend (or use a filter over the dip tube like some guys) that second dry hop in a purged keg and eliminate some of the oxygen exposure. I've found no detrimental effects of leaving dry hops in the serving keg.




I don't think whirlfloc is the cause of your issue but try it without. I've done it both ways and manage to make these beers.




I'm not convinced of this bio-transformation stuff. I haven't seen any articles testing it with taste tests or experiments to prove or disprove it. I've dry hopped every which way and haven't really noticed any differences. When you add a lot of hops (over an ounce per gallon) I think the one major benefit to dry hopping early is avoiding O2 exposure.

I'm a lazy brewer and if I can get something done in one step vs two I'm gonna do that. This last time I closed transferred the beer on day 7 into a purged keg with the full amount of hops that I would normally split in to two additions. The beer going into the dry hop keg (also the SV) was clear like the beer picture you posted in this thread a while back. The beer sat at room temp where I gave it a good shake a couple times a day for three days and then I threw it into the fridge to carb for a week; beer came out hazier than normal and I got it done in one shot. Smelled great and tasted good.

I also used a spunding valve to check the pressure of the SV every now and then while dry hopping. It finally topped out at 15 psi. Not sure if this indicates fermentation or just off gassing but it makes me feel better knowing that possibly the remaining yeast in suspension could have been consuming any O2 that remained in the keg.

I wanted to echo some of your points. Several times I have closed transfered clear pale ales into purged kegs filled with hops. The result? Cloudy hop bomb IPAs.

One downside to adding hops into beer to early is that yeast will pull quite a bit of hop oil down with it when it flocks.

Also, how many hops are you adding to your keg? Are you using several nylon bags to keep the hops out of the dip tube?

 

[arnobg]

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1490485431.842865.jpg

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1490485444.933273.jpg



Well here it is, first time ever brewing or even drinking this style! I followed the edited recipe on the first post except went with 100:150 CaCl:S04 and uses 1318. Kegged this on Monday and force carbed. This is the first two pours.

I am very happy with the product. Once it carbs some more it will be better. There is a bit of a fresh hop bite on the front of the sip but I think that will fade as it matures and the dry hop particulates fall out some more.

Thanks for a great recipe and thread!

 

[leesmith]

I wanted to echo some of your points. Several times I have closed transfered clear pale ales into purged kegs filled with hops. The result? Cloudy hop bomb IPAs.

One downside to adding hops into beer to early is that yeast will pull quite a bit of hop oil down with it when it flocks.

Also, how many hops are you adding to your keg? Are you using several nylon bags to keep the hops out of the dip tube?

I agree...hop oils cling to the yeast and trub and drop out. That's a theory at least.

I just use one fine mesh bag. I do 2.5 gallon batches and use a pretty big bag. A friend silver soldered stainless tabs on the inside of my keg lids for me. I boil the bag along with some butchers twine to sanitize it. The bag is big enough to tie a knot in and then I tie the twine around it. I try to make the string as short as possible to avoid the bag hitting the bottom of the keg and getting sucked into the dip tube. So far this has worked. I've put up to 4 ounces in the bag and there is still room for them to swell and swim around.

You can see an example here:
Amarillo...

The bag in the blog post is not as fine as the ones I use now but that's how I do it. I'll shake the keg a couple times a day to agitate the hops.

 

[EndOfLine]

I agree...hop oils cling to the yeast and trub and drop out. That's a theory at least.

I just use one fine mesh bag. I do 2.5 gallon batches and use a pretty big bag. A friend silver soldered stainless tabs on the inside of my keg lids for me. I boil the bag along with some butchers twine to sanitize it. The bag is big enough to tie a knot in and then I tie the twine around it. I try to make the string as short as possible to avoid the bag hitting the bottom of the keg and getting sucked into the dip tube. So far this has worked. I've put up to 4 ounces in the bag and there is still room for them to swell and swim around.

You can see an example here:
Amarillo...

The bag in the blog post is not as fine as the ones I use now but that's how I do it. I'll shake the keg a couple times a day to agitate the hops.

Cool. I think I may do the sure screen nylon bag combination. Last time I put a bag in my conical I got unlucky and it clogged my sample cock/racking valve.

Also, not a fan of the torpedos? I was looking at those.

 

[leesmith]

Cool. I think I may do the sure screen nylon bag combination. Last time I put a bag in my conical I got unlucky and it clogged my sample cock/racking valve.

Also, not a fan of the torpedos? I was looking at those.

Yeah....the poppets aren't as good a quality along with the metal work.
It works fine but compared to the rubber handle ones I got from Adventues in Homebrewing they aren't as nice.

 

[stickyfinger]

I agree...hop oils cling to the yeast and trub and drop out. That's a theory at least.

I just use one fine mesh bag. I do 2.5 gallon batches and use a pretty big bag. A friend silver soldered stainless tabs on the inside of my keg lids for me. I boil the bag along with some butchers twine to sanitize it. The bag is big enough to tie a knot in and then I tie the twine around it. I try to make the string as short as possible to avoid the bag hitting the bottom of the keg and getting sucked into the dip tube. So far this has worked. I've put up to 4 ounces in the bag and there is still room for them to swell and swim around.

You can see an example here:
Amarillo...

The bag in the blog post is not as fine as the ones I use now but that's how I do it. I'll shake the keg a couple times a day to agitate the hops.

i'm not so sure about yeast pulling out hop flavor and aroma to the extent i thought it did before. my side by side gelatin-fined vs non-fined WC IPA resulted in indistinguishable beers to me. that is only one test on one recipe though.

 

[leesmith]

i'm not so sure about yeast pulling out hop flavor and aroma to the extent i thought it did before. my side by side gelatin-fined vs non-fined WC IPA resulted in indistinguishable beers to me. that is only one test on one recipe though.

Cool...yeah I read your thread on the gelatin. Pretty good stuff. I guess I would ask is the added step of using the gelatin worth it to you? Will you change your process for the NEIPA's?

I think there's a threshold that needs to be hit for the flavors to carry over after the beer crashes...which is just part of recipe development. I've found some beers can loose their hop punch after crashing for some time but have learned to compensate for that by adding more hops in order to achieve the end flavor.

 

[stickyfinger]

Cool...yeah I read your thread on the gelatin. Pretty good stuff. I guess I would ask is the added step of using the gelatin worth it to you? Will you change your process for the NEIPA's?

I think there's a threshold that needs to be hit for the flavors to carry over after the beer crashes...which is just part of recipe development. I've found some beers can loose their hop punch after crashing for some time but have learned to compensate for that by adding more hops in order to achieve the end flavor.

I plan to experiment more with it for sure. I do like removing the yeast faster as long as it doesn't hurt the flavor. I hope to do a gelatin vs no-gelatin NE IPA at some point.

 

[cheesebach]

i'm not so sure about yeast pulling out hop flavor and aroma to the extent i thought it did before. my side by side gelatin-fined vs non-fined WC IPA resulted in indistinguishable beers to me. that is only one test on one recipe though.

How long after fining with gelatin did each leg last? Also, did you fine in the primary or serving keg and with how much gelatin? I'm curious because I have a citra/amarillo APA I just did (not in the NE style) that had a lot of late additions and a 3 oz total dry hop that I think I ruined by dining with gelatin in the keg in an attempt to get it ready to drink faster than I usually aim for. Oddly, it tasted great with plenty of aroma and hop flavor a week after it was transferred from primary to keg and fined with gelatin. Another week later, it was starting to fade, but still had a good hop profile. Now, just 3 total weeks after kegging, it's lost all of it - it's all malt and hardly any hops. Not even sure I'd recognize it as an APA anymore. This wasn't a side-by-side, but I think the gelatin played a role in early end for this beer and I probably won't use gelatin in the keg again until I can do a side-by-side similar to what you did. I wonder if fining in the primary instead would have helped preserve the hop flavor. I used 1/2tsp of the Knox gelatin.

 

[cheesebach]

This probably has nothing to do with whether your beers hazy or not but I'd imagine the second dry hop on day 9 you just pop the lid and throw the hops in? Then purge? Your more than likely adding a lot of O2 to the beer at this point. You could suspend (or use a filter over the dip tube like some guys) that second dry hop in a purged keg and eliminate some of the oxygen exposure.

I understand your point about the oxygen exposure during dry hopping. For other dry hopped beers I've done, I've only done a single dry hop and added it around day 5 or so when fermentation was almost, but not completely done to help the remaining still active yeast either consume it or blow it out. When I'm using my Speidel for my typical 5g batches, the amount of surface area that's open is small and I get it sealed back up so quickly that I don't worry about it much. This is the first recipe I've tried with 2 separate dry hop additions, so I really couldn't think of a way to avoid some amount of oxygen with the 2nd dry hop, since fermentation was probably within a day of completing when I added the 1st.

When you dry hop in the serving keg, how to avoid inducing oxygen? This is one of the reasons I've avoided it - it seems like the options are either put the hops in with the sanitizer before I purge it (doesn't seem like a good idea, but maybe it's ok?) or opening the keg again after I've transferred the beer to add the dry hop. In the latter, I'm still opening it up to oxygen after fermentation is finished, so it doesn't seem like it resolves the issue. Ideally, what I'd like to do the next time I do this is get the 1st addition in on day 2-3 and the 2nd one a couple days later when there's still a bit of fermentation going on. Let me know if you still think there's a better way that I'm not thinking of.

 

[EndOfLine]

I understand your point about the oxygen exposure during dry hopping. For other dry hopped beers I've done, I've only done a single dry hop and added it around day 5 or so when fermentation was almost, but not completely done to help the remaining still active yeast either consume it or blow it out. When I'm using my Speidel for my typical 5g batches, the amount of surface area that's open is small and I get it sealed back up so quickly that I don't worry about it much. This is the first recipe I've tried with 2 separate dry hop additions, so I really couldn't think of a way to avoid some amount of oxygen with the 2nd dry hop, since fermentation was probably within a day of completing when I added the 1st.

When you dry hop in the serving keg, how to avoid inducing oxygen? This is one of the reasons I've avoided it - it seems like the options are either put the hops in with the sanitizer before I purge it (doesn't seem like a good idea, but maybe it's ok?) or opening the keg again after I've transferred the beer to add the dry hop. In the latter, I'm still opening it up to oxygen after fermentation is finished, so it doesn't seem like it resolves the issue. Ideally, what I'd like to do the next time I do this is get the 1st addition in on day 2-3 and the 2nd one a couple days later when there's still a bit of fermentation going on. Let me know if you still think there's a better way that I'm not thinking of.

I like to fully purge my keg by filling with sanitizer and pouring it out with a picnic tap. Then I'll degas and throw a bag of dry hops into it. Then I repurge with gas for a min. Finally, I'll degas the keg and rack beer into it with a close transfer.

 

[Jmash]

I have a bigmouth bubbler with a blowoff tube. I bottle. After the second dry hop addition would it help to suck the air out gently (by mouth) before re- submerging the end in the sanitizer jar?

 

[stickyfinger]

i was wondering about this for awhile. seems my neipa was hazier after i stopped using whirfloc:

http://brulosophy.com/2017/03/27/the-whirlfloc-effect-exbeeriment-results/

 

[leesmith]

I understand your point about the oxygen exposure during dry hopping. For other dry hopped beers I've done, I've only done a single dry hop and added it around day 5 or so when fermentation was almost, but not completely done to help the remaining still active yeast either consume it or blow it out. When I'm using my Speidel for my typical 5g batches, the amount of surface area that's open is small and I get it sealed back up so quickly that I don't worry about it much. This is the first recipe I've tried with 2 separate dry hop additions, so I really couldn't think of a way to avoid some amount of oxygen with the 2nd dry hop, since fermentation was probably within a day of completing when I added the 1st.



When you dry hop in the serving keg, how to avoid inducing oxygen? This is one of the reasons I've avoided it - it seems like the options are either put the hops in with the sanitizer before I purge it (doesn't seem like a good idea, but maybe it's ok?) or opening the keg again after I've transferred the beer to add the dry hop. In the latter, I'm still opening it up to oxygen after fermentation is finished, so it doesn't seem like it resolves the issue. Ideally, what I'd like to do the next time I do this is get the 1st addition in on day 2-3 and the 2nd one a couple days later when there's still a bit of fermentation going on. Let me know if you still think there's a better way that I'm not thinking of.

I think what your proposing would be fine. If the aroma and flavor aren't as strong as you'd like just adjust the recipe for the next time.

What I've done (if I dry hopped twice) is once during active fermentation and then after.
In order to limit the O2 during the second dry hop I used a hop bag with the hops in it suspended in the keg. First I used dental floss tied to the keg handle and through the lid. Now I have a stainless tab soldered on the underside of the lid to tie to. Once I've got that second dry hop in the keg, I purge it with CO2 about five times. Then I push the beer with CO2 from the fermentor into the keg through the liquid out side. Right before I push the beer I open the PRV valve on the keg. I then purge the headspace of the keg a couple times.

The last couple times I've skipped the double dry hop and waited about 6-7 days to do the keg dry hop thing. I've found no difference in the quality of the hop aroma and flavor. I believe fermentation finishes up in the keg at around 10 days since the pressure tops out at about 15 or so PSI when I check it with my spunding valve. After that I put the keg in the fridge to carb for a week...hops and all.

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1490625380.986968.jpg

Above is an example of how I push the beer into the dry hop/serving keg.

 

[cheesebach]

Thanks for the suggestions on the keg dry hopping. I have't tried it before, but will probably give it a go at some point this year to see whether it can provide for a better or longer lasting hop aroma/flavor. So far, my best results for preserving hoppy beers has been doing the dry hop around day 5-6 when there's still some fermentation going on and transferring to a fully purged keg under CO2. For this recipe with 2 dry hops, that would mean moving both additions to earlier in the fermentation process compared to what I did the 1st time.

i was wondering about this for awhile. seems my neipa was hazier after i stopped using whirfloc:

http://brulosophy.com/2017/03/27/the-whirlfloc-effect-exbeeriment-results/

Thanks for the link - I'd guess it would be pretty hard to tell without doing a split batch like in the exbeeriment, but have you noticed any impact other than appearance in your beers since you started leaving out the whirlfloc?

 

[crusader1612]

I think what your proposing would be fine. If the aroma and flavor aren't as strong as you'd like just adjust the recipe for the next time.

What I've done (if I dry hopped twice) is once during active fermentation and then after.
In order to limit the O2 during the second dry hop I used a hop bag with the hops in it suspended in the keg. First I used dental floss tied to the keg handle and through the lid. Now I have a stainless tab soldered on the underside of the lid to tie to. Once I've got that second dry hop in the keg, I purge it with CO2 about five times. Then I push the beer with CO2 from the fermentor into the keg through the liquid out side. Right before I push the beer I open the PRV valve on the keg. I then purge the headspace of the keg a couple times.

The last couple times I've skipped the double dry hop and waited about 6-7 days to do the keg dry hop thing. I've found no difference in the quality of the hop aroma and flavor. I believe fermentation finishes up in the keg at around 10 days since the pressure tops out at about 15 or so PSI when I check it with my spunding valve. After that I put the keg in the fridge to carb for a week...hops and all.

View attachment 394253

Above is an example of how I push the beer into the dry hop/serving keg.

a very extravagent purging setup

 

[stickyfinger]

Thanks for the suggestions on the keg dry hopping. I have't tried it before, but will probably give it a go at some point this year to see whether it can provide for a better or longer lasting hop aroma/flavor. So far, my best results for preserving hoppy beers has been doing the dry hop around day 5-6 when there's still some fermentation going on and transferring to a fully purged keg under CO2. For this recipe with 2 dry hops, that would mean moving both additions to earlier in the fermentation process compared to what I did the 1st time.







Thanks for the link - I'd guess it would be pretty hard to tell without doing a split batch like in the exbeeriment, but have you noticed any impact other than appearance in your beers since you started leaving out the whirlfloc?

not enough of one that it stood out as obvious.

 

[stickyfinger]

How long after fining with gelatin did each leg last? Also, did you fine in the primary or serving keg and with how much gelatin? I'm curious because I have a citra/amarillo APA I just did (not in the NE style) that had a lot of late additions and a 3 oz total dry hop that I think I ruined by dining with gelatin in the keg in an attempt to get it ready to drink faster than I usually aim for. Oddly, it tasted great with plenty of aroma and hop flavor a week after it was transferred from primary to keg and fined with gelatin. Another week later, it was starting to fade, but still had a good hop profile. Now, just 3 total weeks after kegging, it's lost all of it - it's all malt and hardly any hops. Not even sure I'd recognize it as an APA anymore. This wasn't a side-by-side, but I think the gelatin played a role in early end for this beer and I probably won't use gelatin in the keg again until I can do a side-by-side similar to what you did. I wonder if fining in the primary instead would have helped preserve the hop flavor. I used 1/2tsp of the Knox gelatin.

i fined in the primary with 1/2 tsp for a 4 gallon batch. the beer was around 36F when fined. i just did it last week, so both beers are still around. i noticed last night that the unfined version is getting pretty clear too, must be something about the brewing salts, yeast or hopping that allowed it to clear so fast, way faster than my NE IPAs.... I'll continue to monitor and see if there is a difference. i think i need to redo this with one of my NE IPAs...

 

[leesmith]

a very extravagent purging setup

It's not too bad.

This thread is awesome:
Pressurized Closed Loop Corny Keg Fermenting

A lot of guys go much further to eliminate O2 exposure:
Interesting German Brewing PDF

 

[PissyFingers]

heres my closed system setup, if anyone is interested i can list the parts and tell you how my process goes.

View attachment TRANSFER.MOV

 

[schematix]

This thread is awesome:
Pressurized Closed Loop Corny Keg Fermenting

The guy who authored that thread is pretty sharp. I follow everything he does.

 

[Redtab78]

So i brewed a similar recipie to the op, using oats and white wheat and 50/50 2 row and golden promise, nugget to bitter to about 40ibu, then 1oz each of mosaic, citra and amarillo at flameout, and immediatly started chilling to 160, then same 1oz hits with an additional .5oz of vic secret, left at 160 for 30 min, then dropped it to 62, and letmit sit there for 10 while i tried to whirlpool the hop matter to the center, but ended up with a TON of it in the fermenter.

Og was 1.062, and today its down to 1.020, so i hit itmwith the first dry hop charge, 1oz each again, and when its at fg stable for 2 days, i plan to secondary it with the final hop charge, mostly to get the beer of all that hop matter, there must be 2 inches of it at the bottom of the fermenter :/

 

[jpb2716]

What's everyone's thoughts on cold crashing this style beer? I've done a couple batches and do all my dry hopping in the primary. I've always done a closed transfer with co2 from carboy to keg and just let it crash in the keg. I wouldn't mind dropping out more hop matter in the carboy before transferring to the keg. Is cold crashing in the primary setting me up for unnecessary oxygen exposure?

 

[stickyfinger]

What's everyone's thoughts on cold crashing this style beer? I've done a couple batches and do all my dry hopping in the primary. I've always done a closed transfer with co2 from carboy to keg and just let it crash in the keg. I wouldn't mind dropping out more hop matter in the carboy before transferring to the keg. Is cold crashing in the primary setting me up for unnecessary oxygen exposure?

I do it all of the time and I doubt it has much impact on the beer longevity. I've tried hooking up a CO2 line with very low pressure on it for the chill, and I've just done it with no CO2 line. I pull out the stopper right before I rack to keg, some air sucks into the headspace rapidly, I rack to keg, and I drink delicious beer for a couple months.

I just crashed one of my beers this weekend, and I noticed that literally within a few hours of starting to cool it, the hops had dropped down to the bottom!

 

[jpb2716]

I do it all of the time and I doubt it has much impact on the beer longevity. I've tried hooking up a CO2 line with very low pressure on it for the chill, and I've just done it with no CO2 line. I pull out the stopper right before I rack to keg, some air sucks into the headspace rapidly, I rack to keg, and I drink delicious beer for a couple months.

I just crashed one of my beers this weekend, and I noticed that literally within a few hours of starting to cool it, the hops had dropped down to the bottom!

I've never cold crashed with co2. When you cold crash without co2, are you using a solid stopper? My usual process is removing the blow off tube and replacing it with a vodka filled s-type airlock and then cold crashing.

 

[stickyfinger]

I've never cold crashed with co2. When you cold crash without co2, are you using a solid stopper? My usual process is removing the blow off tube and replacing it with a vodka filled s-type airlock and then cold crashing.

I am much more afraid of oxygen than bacteria/yeast at that point, so I just put a solid stopper into the carboy when I start the cold crash. I leave it that way until I am ready to keg. Right before I rack to the keg, I pull out the stopper (it has a pretty big negative pressure in the carboy, so it is hard to pull out sometimes), a rush of air swooshes into the carboy, and then I put in my racking cane and rack.

My thoughts are that the oxygen may react with some of the surface beer, but I just don't think it is that big of a deal. I'd have to do a side-by-side to say for sure. I've just been too lazy to use my pressure-transfer setup, and it kind of worries me pressurizing my carboy (maybe irrationally.)

 

[Redtab78]

What's everyone's thoughts on cold crashing this style beer? I've done a couple batches and do all my dry hopping in the primary. I've always done a closed transfer with co2 from carboy to keg and just let it crash in the keg. I wouldn't mind dropping out more hop matter in the carboy before transferring to the keg. Is cold crashing in the primary setting me up for unnecessary oxygen exposure?

Personally ( and I don't have any other brews of this kind under my belt other then my current one) I don't see how it would hurt at all, if fact it may even help, as there are TONS of hop matter in the fermenters.

I checked on my batch this morning, and as you can see, there is about 2 inches at the bottom, and another inch or so at the top in the krausen, so perhaps cold crashing will help to settle a lot of this out and ensure I don't have a ton of yeast suspended.

 

[stickyfinger]

Personally ( and I don't have any other brews of this kind under my belt other then my current one) I don't see how it would hurt at all, if fact it may even help, as there are TONS of hop matter in the fermenters.

There is NO doubt that it helps to settle hop matter and maybe some yeast. It makes racking a lot easier. The risk is oxygen exposure (not sure it is significant or not.)