New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

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aaronm13

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Contemplating DHing at 50-52 for the first time rather than bumping it up to 58-60 which is my norm.
Id say definitely try it. I've dry hopped twice now and have been very impressed, a lot smoother and no noticeable decrease in extraction. I went 50F for 24 hours then started crashing for around another 48
 

R.A.I.D

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A few weeks ago we discussed splitting up the hot side hops between 20, 10 and 0 min boil and WP at different temperatures. For a more saturated result.

Have anyone tested splitting up the dry hop between active fermentation and after soft crash? Also for more complexity. E.g. 1 oz during active fermentation. Or are you set on only dry hopping after soft crash?
 

Dgallo

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A few weeks ago we discussed splitting up the hot side hops between 20, 10 and 0 min boil and WP at different temperatures. For a more saturated result.

Have anyone tested splitting up the dry hop between active fermentation and after soft crash? Also for more complexity. E.g. 1 oz during active fermentation. Or are you set on only dry hopping after soft crash?
I’ve been brewing these for quite sometime and have done quite a bit of experiments. I genuinely feel that splitting your dryhop in to two addition, post fermentation and soft crashing, with agitation provides the best, out of the bag aroma and flavor with the best mouthfeel. With that said I have found that dryhoping during fermentation provides a different character, specifically using hops with compounds known to biotransform with some yeast strains provides a different flavor, less bold but it’s definitely different than post dryhoping. You could use this to make a beer more complexbut in and of itself, I don’t feel it adds to complexity. I strongly feel complexity comes from hop choice and using some late boil, low temp whirlpool and post fermentation dryhoping after soft crashing and at lower temperatures using agitation.

My last two beers I posted about are genuinely top notch. I’m not saying this to toot my own horn, just to share info that will help others. They truly meet what we strive to achieve when we brew this style
 
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R.A.I.D

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I genuinely feel that splitting your dryhop in to two addition, post fermentation and soft crashing, with agitation provides the best, out of the bag aroma and flavor with the best mouthfeel.
So I will stick to post soft crash dry hopping. Until now I have just practiced dry hopping "all at once" by transferring the beer off the yeast to a fermentation flushed dry hop keg. What is your practice then double dry hopping? Do you split your 10 oz of dry hops evenly? Do you dry hop loose or in a bad? Do you remove the first set of dry hop before adding the second? Or just open up the keg and dumping the second load on top of the first? And how is your timing for first and second load and the following cold crash?

Sorry for all the questions :cool:
I will try this next time. It might be with the second dry hop load in a bag suspended in the serving keg. Containing the last 2-3.5 oz.

I can't get my head around why it should be better to dry hop two times instead of just one as long as you agitate. Does anyone have a theory for why this makes a difference?
 

Northern_Brewer

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A few weeks ago we discussed splitting up the hot side hops between 20, 10 and 0 min boil and WP at different temperatures. For a more saturated result.

Have anyone tested splitting up the dry hop between active fermentation and after soft crash? Also for more complexity. E.g. 1 oz during active fermentation. Or are you set on only dry hopping after soft crash?
Cloudwater did a large scale trial of this with their DIPA v4/5 back in their early days :

Conclusion :
51.6% preferred a blend of the two
25.2% v5 (DDH after fermentation)
23.2% v4 (DDH during fermentation)

And even the preferences among the blenders was almost completely even for different proportions.

I've mentioned before this post where they posted recipes for their "original" DIPA v3, compared to how they would do it in 2018 based on what they'd learnt :

I don't think I've mentioned this post where they compare hops from different sources :
"Consistent with the feedback we received from our customers, there were a full range of preferences [among brewers attending hop selection in Yakima], from solid preferences for one or the other, to somewhere undecided in between.

The team at the brewery here were both pleased and a little disappointed to taste what we felt like was a substantial difference between Taco and Cat. One was rounder, more fruity, and more nuanced at the same time, and the other a little edgy, pretty damn fruity, but with a hint of hop off flavours....Taking part in hop selection this year was the most eye opening experience I’ve had regarding hop quality variation. Adjacent farms with seemingly minor differences in growing, picking, and processing preferences scored anywhere between class leading and poor, so I’m far from being able to draw any reliable conclusions this year. However, my sights are firmly set on making sure I achieve a way to secure only the most impactful and flavourful hops available.
"
 

Dgallo

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What is your practice then double dry hopping? Do you split your 10 oz of dry hops evenly? Do you dry hop loose or in a bad?
I only ever dryhop loose. I’ve been kinda experimenting with this. I typically just go with evenly but I will specifically place the fruitier hops in the second dryhop. Also if I’m using cryo Or LUPOMAX, I always will place that in the second dryhop

Just open up the keg and dumping the second load on top of the first? And how is your timing for first and second load and the following cold crash?
I use modified 7 gallon fermonsters so I’ll run co2 through liquid post as I’m dumping in each round and then let it run another 10 seconds or so and then close the lid back up and take it off gas. My first dryhop get 2.5-3 days contact, second gets 1-2 days contact before crashing.
I can't get my head around why it should be better to dry hop two times instead of just one as long as you agitate. Does anyone have a theory for why this makes a difference?
To be honest I’ve only recently started using agitation and have only tried it on split dryhops and have yet to see if I get the same result with a single large dryhop.
 

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I know that some here have IBUs that you are shooting for and it would probably end of very good. My personal preference is to be a bit lower in the mid30-mid40 range. But again that's personal preference. My thought here would instead of just using 1oz at 60min, I would have an addition at 5 or 10min left in the boil as well. Something like .50oz at 60min and .50oz at 5 or 10min would lower the IBUs but likely add some more flavor from the boil and pre-whirlpool. Whirlpool temps and duration vary widely around here and it always comes down to personal preference in the end. So IMHO, I would tend increase the WP addition slightly to perhaps 3oz. Lastly given that your OG is 1.060 so your end beer will be in the low 6% ABV range, 5oz in the DH isn't so bad. I typically would do 6oz for lower ABV NEIPAs and others here will probably add more than that as well. Again - personal preference. In the end, none of this will matter if you don't have good oxygen control processes on the cold side. So if you have a good handle on that aspect, Im sure your beer will turn out fine.

Cheers!
Thank you very much!! Good info I can use moving forward.
 

HopsAreGood

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I only ever dryhop loose. I’ve been kinda experimenting with this. I typically just go with evenly but I will specifically place the fruitier hops in the second dryhop. Also if I’m using cryo Or LUPOMAX, I always will place that in the second dryhop


I use modified 7 gallon fermonsters so I’ll run co2 through liquid post as I’m dumping in each round and then let it run another 10 seconds or so and then close the lid back up and take it off gas. My first dryhop get 2.5-3 days contact, second gets 1-2 days contact before crashing.

To be honest I’ve only recently started using agitation and have only tried it on split dryhops and have yet to see if I get the same result with a single large dryhop.
How are you agitating in a fermonster? I’ve been using the dry hop keg method for a while now so rolling the keg is easy, but I’m not sure how I’d “agitate” in the fermenter.

To be honest, the last two batches that I’ve done I skipped the dry hop keg, and dry hopped directly into the fermenter while running CO2 in through the lid, and then purging afterwards, and I think I like the results better from the non-DryHop keg method. Could just be a batch to batch/hop quality thing, but these last two batches have been really punchy and bright.
 

ThatVideoKid

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How are you agitating in a fermonster? I’ve been using the dry hop keg method for a while now so rolling the keg is easy, but I’m not sure how I’d “agitate” in the fermenter.

To be honest, the last two batches that I’ve done I skipped the dry hop keg, and dry hopped directly into the fermenter while running CO2 in through the lid, and then purging afterwards, and I think I like the results better from the non-DryHop keg method. Could just be a batch to batch/hop quality thing, but these last two batches have been really punchy and bright.
Not dgallo, but I was just thinking about how well it would work to put a keg on a stir plate.
 

jturman35

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I started dry hopping loose in the keg even though I have a glycol chilled conical. Trying to get 10oz of hops out of the conical is such a PITA before transferring which is why I now keg hop. I’m also using fermentation to purge my DH and serving keg. Next step is get the DH keg in the keezer so I can control the DH temp while fermentation is purging.
 

ThatVideoKid

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How big is racking off the yeast before dry hopping? Could similar be achieved by just crashing out the yeast before adding hops at 50 degrees, without transferring? No agitation though I guess.

I only ask because I currently just hop loose in an All Rounder, and continuing that would be preferable.
 

Dgallo

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How are you agitating in a fermonster? I’ve been using the dry hop keg method for a while now so rolling the keg is easy, but I’m not sure how I’d “agitate” in the fermenter.

To be honest, the last two batches that I’ve done I skipped the dry hop keg, and dry hopped directly into the fermenter while running CO2 in through the lid, and then purging afterwards, and I think I like the results better from the non-DryHop keg method. Could just be a batch to batch/hop quality thing, but these last two batches have been really punchy and bright.
With your lid on tight and correctly, you can rock it back and forth. You can even role it slightly on its side
 
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HopsAreGood

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With your lid on tight and currently, you can rock it back and force and even role it slightly on its side
I’d be nervous trying that... The rolling it on it’s side part. I’ve gently rocked fermonsters back and forth millions of times and also “rotated” the base back and forth quickly, but rolling it on its side seems like a lot of the yeast cake would get disturbed and defeat the purpose of trying to dry hop with as little yeast as possible in the way. I’m sure you’re not putting it completely on its side but still, I’d be nervous.

Whenever I’ve “agitated” in the fermonster it’s always been to get things to drop, not go back up or re introduce to the liquid above. Seems like you’d need significant movement to get the hops back up.

Conversely, it’s super easy in the dry hop keg...but as I said I’m not personally convinced the agitation gives you something that you can’t get without it. If anything it likely increases the speed of extraction but I’m not sold that it provides better extraction.
 

Dgallo

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I’d be nervous trying that... The rolling it on it’s side part. I’ve gently rocked fermonsters back and forth millions of times and also “rotated” the base back and forth quickly, but rolling it on its side seems like a lot of the yeast cake would get disturbed and defeat the purpose of trying to dry hop with as little yeast as possible in the way. I’m sure you’re not putting it completely on its side but still, I’d be nervous.

Whenever I’ve “agitated” in the fermonster it’s always been to get things to drop, not go back up or re introduce to the liquid above. Seems like you’d need significant movement to get the hops back up.

Conversely, it’s super easy in the dry hop keg...but as I said I’m not personally convinced the agitation gives you something that you can’t get without it. If anything it likely increases the speed of extraction but I’m not sold that it provides better extraction.
Get a second fermonster for dryhoping. You still only need one lid. For the one you need for fermentation, use the normal lid but invert the bung and push a blow off hose through it connected to a balllock
61DA072E-6CD1-4582-9890-C479AD23AAD1.jpeg
5BD5BEDF-7C9D-4BB7-A2D6-E7E9803C28E0.jpeg


I’ll purge the second fermonster, which has the modified lid on it, during fermentation. And then it’s just the same process you use with the keg but with a fermonster.
 

HopsAreGood

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Get a second fermonster for dryhoping. You still only need one lid. For the one you need for fermentation, use the normal lid but invert the bung and push a blow off hose through it connected to a balllock View attachment 733418View attachment 733419

I’ll purge the second fermonster, which has the modified lid on it, during fermentation. And then it’s just the same process you use with the keg but with a fermonster.
Got it...makes perfect sense. I must have missed the fact you’re using a second fermonster as your dry hop keg. Pretty much the same thing/process.
 

Dgallo

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Got it...makes perfect sense. I must have missed the fact you’re using a second fermonster as your dry hop keg. Pretty much the same thing/process.
Yeah. I realize that I didn’t actually state that. Sorry
 

wepeeler

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Ok so life just got in the way for this weekend, I was gonna brew a neipa for a pigroast I host every year which is on July 17th this year. Basically my next available brew day would be July 3rd which gives me exactly 14 days to get it from grain to glass. I have used kveik in the past in my neipa with decent results, dont like it as much as others but I think it will be my best option. So here's my thoughts, I brew 15 gallon batches 17.5 in the fermenter. I brew on July 3rd, pitch Omega voss kveik at say 90f to 95f and hold that for a couple days, check gravity, once around 1.018, hopefully by July 8th, crash to 40f do a yeast dump (conical) and then dry hop at 50f for 3days, on July 11th cold crash to 36f, this is as cold as I can get with my set up, sometimes only 38f. Leave it crash for 48 hours and keg July 13th or 14th, Force carb the hell out of and be ready to serve by the 17th. This beer will likely be around 1.064 to 1.070 OG and dry hop at about 1.25 oz per gallon. I have not set this recipe in stone yet so those are ballpark numbers. Any thoughs or input/suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Being that I want to underpitch the kviek I was thinking about just using 1 full pack of omega voss in the 17 gallon batch. Not sure if that is to much of an under pitch, if so Ill have plenty of time to build up enough of a starter, any recommend pitch rate there would be appreciated also. My concern is the beer being to green and to avoid hop burn as much as possible, with a 14 day window well who knows, maybe it will ferment out quicker then I expect and it will have a couple more days to mellow, maybe it won't and ill just have to serve what I have on hand. Sorry for the long post guys!
Cheers!
1 pack is overpitching, even for 17 gallons. I say, let it rip, but crash it before dry hopping. You'll most likely be done fermenting in less than 4 or 5 days. Cold crash, dry hop and try to give yourself a full week for carbing. You really don't need to DH longer than 24-48 hours. As long as you soft crash by the 8th and keg by the 10th, that gives you a full week for carbing.
 

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Can anyone recommend a good hop schedule for using Mosaic/Simcoe/Amarillo ? I am using up some old hops and want to give this a whirl. I have done Simcoe Amarillo before and it turned out pretty good. Unfortunately i will be using WLP002 on this batch instead of Imperial Juice. I think the hot side is ok just not sure how to approach the dry hops.

.5oz Warrior @ 60

2oz Mosaic WP
1oz Simcoe WP
1oz Amarillo WP
Im not that experienced with mosaic other than in the traditional Citra, mosaic, galaxy combo. I guess your dry hop comes down to what you want to focus on. More "berry"? focus on mosaic in the DH as well. BTW - I still love some Simcoe / Amarillo beers. It just works quite well. So also thinking that you take then DH schedule from your previous Simcoe/amarillo recipe. The mosaic in the WP only might add a cool depth to it. Think of it as an altered version of Simcoe Amarillo.
 

jturman35

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Yes sir your correct I have done Simcoe Amarillo several times in the past with decent results. I had these hops so decided to give this a whirl. My only concern is I'm using WLP002 English Ale yeast because it's what i could get local. I really prefer Imperial Juice. Like many in here and thanks to this thread i have dialed back my WP hop from 6oz to 4oz and shoot for 9-10oz in the DH. I'm a little different by throwing in a 20 min addition. In the future i may try cutting back to 6oz DH. I decided to let Mosaic be the stand out hop in this next batch.

I did a NZ pils awhile back using only 3oz hops total in the boil and was completely blown away by the aroma i got from such a small addition. I am probably wrong but this has me thinking maybe less is more with this style. Unfortunately I just haven't been able to crank out a 40 point NEIPA yet.

.5oz Warrior @ 60
.5oz Simcoe @ 20

2oz Mosaic WP
1oz Amarillo WP
1oz Simcoe WP

4oz Mosaic DH
3oz Amarillo DH
2oz Simcoe DH


On a side note I see folks not a fan of Sabro. I have used it several times trying to clone a local beer and found 2-3 oz in the dry hops seems to be the sweet spot. My next beer is a NZ Pils recipe going to try Nelson/Wakatu that i cant wait to knock down as well, but that is a story for a different thread.
 

couchsending

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I've never experienced the "woody" character some people complain about with from Sabro but I do get coconut pretty consistently. I enjoy it with other hops but I'm not sure I'd like it in a single hop beer.
Not sure of anyone here watches the short videos the Alchemist puts out on the Gram when they release new beers or not but one of the recent ones, Skadoosh 52, just came out. It uses Talus (692) which is a daughter of Sabro. John mentions he gets nothing but cedar and his wife thinks it’s straight passion fruit. A great example of different people can perceive hop character very differently.
 

ihavenonickname

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So I will stick to post soft crash dry hopping. Until now I have just practiced dry hopping "all at once" by transferring the beer off the yeast to a fermentation flushed dry hop keg. What is your practice then double dry hopping? Do you split your 10 oz of dry hops evenly? Do you dry hop loose or in a bad? Do you remove the first set of dry hop before adding the second? Or just open up the keg and dumping the second load on top of the first? And how is your timing for first and second load and the following cold crash?
@Dgallo This is the question for me too… so you are opening the lid TWICE after fermentation to dry hop. This is a hang up for me on our small scale where O2 exposure matters more. And this is as you flow CO2 through the liquid side? Does that mean the co2 is bubbling and sloshing up the liquid as you drop the hops?
When I do this in kegs, the fussiness of the keg lid has always made this tough. I run co2 thru the gas post, which is so close to the lid I don't think it does a great job of keeping the Air out. Using this method I’ve had oxidation drop off by week 3-4 pretty consistently (with even one addition) where as keeping the system closed and doing the dry hop flushed by fermentation thing it’s stayed fresher longer. But I wonder if I’m giving up some initial pungency. Maybe an all rounder or a fermonster with an easier lid would be an upgrade from my 10g corney keg.
 

Dgallo

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@Dgallo This is the question for me too… so you are opening the lid TWICE after fermentation to dry hop. This is a hang up for me on our small scale where O2 exposure matters more. And this is as you flow CO2 through the liquid side? Does that mean the co2 is bubbling and sloshing up the liquid as you drop the hops?
When I do this in kegs, the fussiness of the keg lid has always made this tough. I run co2 thru the gas post, which is so close to the lid I don't think it does a great job of keeping the Air out. Using this method I’ve had oxidation drop off by week 3-4 pretty consistently (with even one addition) where as keeping the system closed and doing the dry hop flushed by fermentation thing it’s stayed fresher longer. But I wonder if I’m giving up some initial pungency. Maybe an all rounder or a fermonster with an easier lid would be an upgrade from my 10g corney keg.
Yeah it’s bubbling away. The fermonster lid is much different than a keg lid. Keg lids need downward pressure to open and that can cause a down draft as you open it allowing outside air in. The fermonster lid unscrews and opens outwards so co2 is being pulled out but at the same time co2 is entering from the floating dip tube so greatly minimizes the opportunity for outside air to enter the fermenter. I’m sure a minimal amount gets in, but it has not caused any noticeable oxidation issues even after 10 weeks. This picture is a little old but this is of a beer after being in the keg 12 weeks with this method and still had great aroma, just dropped some of it’s opacity.

Within the first month
B07DB394-0F4A-4697-A6B5-20398199A459.jpeg


12 weeks
7A46F031-500A-4DBF-9E31-857E6E64F3C4.jpeg
 
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wepeeler

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Not sure of anyone here watches the short videos the Alchemist puts out on the Gram when they release new beers or not but one of the recent ones, Skadoosh 52, just came out. It uses Talus (692) which is a daughter of Sabro. John mentions he gets nothing but cedar and his wife thinks it’s straight passion fruit. A great example of different people can perceive hop character very differently.
I just had one last night, and I got zero cedar or wood. I wouldn't say straight passion fruit either, but definitely citrus, with the normal Alchemist flavoring. Tasted like a Heady Topper light to me. It was fantastic.
 

RCope

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Not sure of anyone here watches the short videos the Alchemist puts out on the Gram when they release new beers or not but one of the recent ones, Skadoosh 52, just came out. It uses Talus (692) which is a daughter of Sabro. John mentions he gets nothing but cedar and his wife thinks it’s straight passion fruit. A great example of different people can perceive hop character very differently.
I'm drinking my own single hop Talus made with Kolsch yeast right now and all I get is cedar. No citrus and certainly no passion fruit. I'll serve it to a bunch of friends and ask their opinion, but it's not my favorite. At least I'm not the only one...
 

ThatVideoKid

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@Dgallo This is the question for me too… so you are opening the lid TWICE after fermentation to dry hop. This is a hang up for me on our small scale where O2 exposure matters more. And this is as you flow CO2 through the liquid side? Does that mean the co2 is bubbling and sloshing up the liquid as you drop the hops?
When I do this in kegs, the fussiness of the keg lid has always made this tough. I run co2 thru the gas post, which is so close to the lid I don't think it does a great job of keeping the Air out. Using this method I’ve had oxidation drop off by week 3-4 pretty consistently (with even one addition) where as keeping the system closed and doing the dry hop flushed by fermentation thing it’s stayed fresher longer. But I wonder if I’m giving up some initial pungency. Maybe an all rounder or a fermonster with an easier lid would be an upgrade from my 10g corney keg.
I just want to comment that the All-Rounder IS NOT an easier lid. It’s a large opening and a son of a b*tch to get open. I have to pry it with a screw driver every time.

I’ve taken to just pulling the airlock and adding my hops with a funnel, but it’s not the fastest process.
 

Beerdrinker85

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I have the All-Rounder and you absolutely need a jar adjustable opener to close/open it.
This is mandatory unless you take juice :p

 

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I took a stab at the "Oat Cream Ale" style and added some vanilla bean to make it more like a milkshake IPA. This is one of my favorite beers I've brewed in a while, and it took 1st place in the milkshake category of a local IPA competition. Really creamy mouthfeel but not overly thick, tons of tropical fruit balanced nicely with the vanilla, and just enough bitterness. I might like this better than some of the fruited versions I've done, because you don't get any of the acidity from the fruit plus its way cheaper to make.

12 lb 2 row
3 lb Malted oats
3 lb Flaked oats
0.5 Wheat
0.7 lb Lactose

0.3 oz Warrior (12 IBU)
2 oz Citra whirlpool
2 oz Mosaic Lupomax whirlpool
2 oz Citra dry hop #1
2 oz Mosaic dry hop #1
2 oz Citra Lupomax dry hop #2

1 vanilla bean w/ dry hop #2

Imperial Juice gen 3



O.G. = 1.071
F.G. = 1.017
ABV = 7.1%

Fermented from 64 up to room temp over 4 or 5 days
 

AM1

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Guys newbie question here. My recipe calls for 50/50 MO and Pils malt. SRM around 4.3.

If i boil for 90 mins i run the risk to increase SRM which i do not want as i would like to stay on lighter side.

If i boil for 60 do i run the risk of DMS? ( i use weyerman pils malt).

What boiling time you suggest to avoid DMS and avoid increase in SRM?

Thank you!
 

couchsending

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Guys newbie question here. My recipe calls for 50/50 MO and Pils malt. SRM around 4.3.

If i boil for 90 mins i run the risk to increase SRM which i do not want as i would like to stay on lighter side.

If i boil for 60 do i run the risk of DMS? ( i use weyerman pils malt).

What boiling time you suggest to avoid DMS and avoid increase in SRM?

Thank you!
You will notice zero difference in SRM boiling for 60 vs. 90. 50% pilsner you should be fine at 70 minutes if you're below 3000 feet in elevation.
 

Dgallo

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Guys newbie question here. My recipe calls for 50/50 MO and Pils malt. SRM around 4.3.

If i boil for 90 mins i run the risk to increase SRM which i do not want as i would like to stay on lighter side.

If i boil for 60 do i run the risk of DMS? ( i use weyerman pils malt).

What boiling time you suggest to avoid DMS and avoid increase in SRM?

Thank you!
With today’s malt and in an ipa verses a Lager, I’d be hard pressed to think youd have a dms issue with a 60 minute boil. If you’re concerned, use 2row, most maltster have it only .3 srm higher than Pilsner
 
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With today’s malt and in an ipa verses a Lager, I’d be hard pressed to think youd have a dms issue with a 60 minute boil. If you’re concerned, use 2row, most maltster have it only .3 srm higher than Pilsner
Thank you the info, appreciated!
 

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I'm curious how you guys brewing NEIPA's are handling trub? Are you trying to keep it out of your fermenter, or you intentionally throw it in? Especially all those late hop additions... I could imagine pros and cons for each way and wondered if there was a standard of sorts.

I'm assuming it's been brought up at some point, if not it might be an interesting subject because I'd expect it to have some effect.
 
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