New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

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aaronm13

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I’m actually getting more at the fact that A 1 addition or 8g/l and B have 2 additions of 4g/l. That way they use an equivalent amount of hops and you would be able to see what the impact of two separate dryhops additions verses one.

The study as is only shows if more hops has a bigger impact
Yes, that actually makes more sense as you're trying to gauge the effect of single to double dry hopping. They've basically combined two experiments in one with little conclusion.


Nelson and Citra work great together
I was never a huge fan of Nelson but had some incredible examples of Citra and Nelson together so I grew to love it. Really excited to try the lower dry hop amounts to see if this is the issues I've been having lately.

Still unsure of the ratio between the two though. Citra will be Lupomax and leaning towards a 2:1 Citra. To gauge the intensity of the hops as you always say to smell them should you maybe get say 5 pellets of each and rub them together to see what a 50/50 split smells like then go from there?
 

Andre3000

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Also HBC586 > Sabro

By 100000%. Might even be better than Strata, although they’re very different. Another incredibly strong and unique hop that’s not really like anything else out there. Has the intense tropical notes of Sabro but none of the wood/dill/mint etc.

highly recommend
I was a fan of this hop when I tried it about a year ago. I really don't feel like it ever got the attention it deserves. As a matter of fact it only comes up less than 10 times in this thread. Glad someone else is on it.
 

beervoid

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Think that's how it should have been conducted myself. Beer A, 2 additions of 4g/L each and beer B, 2 additions of 8g/L each.

My Yakima order finally arrived in Ireland today so will hopefully get them tomorrow or Monday then I can brew my Citra and Nelson DIPA. Going with just under 10oz double dry hop.
I would add that if your process is not right going higher on dryhopping will not help your beer, you are better off starting at the lowish side (5-6oz) and working your way up.
With these high rates its very difficult to get bright flavor on a homebrew level.
 

beervoid

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I was originally hoping the ddh process would actually contain the same amount of hops as the single but split into two separate additions. That’s the component of ddh I’m most interested in. I anecdotally believe I perceive a brighter and more forward hop character when I split them between 2 additions but again my bias may be perceiving that
I found the same thing.
I was never convinced biotransformation did anything until recently for the first time I found a difference when doing a double dry hop end of fermentation and after soft crash.
 

AMessenger

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Idea for the dry hopping conundrum:

I use a SS Brewtech Brewbucket which has a spigot at the bottom. For dryhopping I typically just open the lid and drop my hops in as quickly and gently as possible. The beers taste plenty hoppy without any attempt to deal with the oxygen that must have gotten in but, without any way to measure the amount of oxygen exposure or to say what the beer would have been like without the exposure, I can’t help but get a nagging feeling that maybe things could be better.

I’m mulling over the idea of trying to inject some CO2 after dry hopping to give the investment in time and $ these beers represent a better chance for success. For the mechanics on how to go about this, I wonder if a low pressure trickle into the output spigot to bubble up through the beer and out the airlock at the top might be the best way to get the CO2 in and headspace oxygen out. Is this how any of you guys do this?
 

R.A.I.D

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Idea for the dry hopping conundrum:

I use a SS Brewtech Brewbucket which has a spigot at the bottom. For dryhopping I typically just open the lid and drop my hops in as quickly and gently as possible. The beers taste plenty hoppy without any attempt to deal with the oxygen that must have gotten in but, without any way to measure the amount of oxygen exposure or to say what the beer would have been like without the exposure, I can’t help but get a nagging feeling that maybe things could be better.

I’m mulling over the idea of trying to inject some CO2 after dry hopping to give the investment in time and $ these beers represent a better chance for success. For the mechanics on how to go about this, I wonder if a low pressure trickle into the output spigot to bubble up through the beer and out the airlock at the top might be the best way to get the CO2 in and headspace oxygen out. Is this how any of you guys do this?
If you can inject CO2 into the input post while you have the fermenter open, the positive pressure will minimize the amount of oxygen going into the fermenter while it is open. CO2 in the output post might create a lot of foam.
Also you can add 0.5g/10L ascorbic acid together with the dry hop. It will work as an antioxidant and pick up any remaining O2.
 
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couchsending

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Idea for the dry hopping conundrum:

I use a SS Brewtech Brewbucket which has a spigot at the bottom. For dryhopping I typically just open the lid and drop my hops in as quickly and gently as possible. The beers taste plenty hoppy without any attempt to deal with the oxygen that must have gotten in but, without any way to measure the amount of oxygen exposure or to say what the beer would have been like without the exposure, I can’t help but get a nagging feeling that maybe things could be better.

I’m mulling over the idea of trying to inject some CO2 after dry hopping to give the investment in time and $ these beers represent a better chance for success. For the mechanics on how to go about this, I wonder if a low pressure trickle into the output spigot to bubble up through the beer and out the airlock at the top might be the best way to get the CO2 in and headspace oxygen out. Is this how any of you guys do this?
Do you have the flat lid or have you upgraded to the domed lid for your bucket? (Assuming it’s 7g or larger)

If you have the domed lid you can dump hops in through the TC port so you don’t need to take the lid off. Use a funnel with as wide an opening that will just barley for inside the TC port.

You can also now use the 1.5 TC pressure transfer fitting SS sells. I’ve got a separate Co2 tank and manifold for my FVs. When the beer is almost done fermenting I put the pressure transfer fitting on and let pressure build up a bit (the PRV releases are 2psi so not much). But if helps to maintain positive pressure while soft cooling at least.

when it’s time to dry hop just turn the Co2 on, pull the pressure transfer fitting, dump hops in quickly and put the transfer fitting back on. You can use the PRV to purge the headspace as many times as you’d like.

Been doing this for hundreds of Hoppy beers. I have some Unitanks where I can send Co2 into the headspace while adding dry hops and I don’t really Notice any difference in overall hop impact.
 
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aaronm13

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Do you have the flat lid or have you upgraded to the domed lid for your bucket? (Assuming it’s 7g or larger)

If you have the domed lid you can dump hops in through the TC port so you don’t need to take the lid off. Use a funnel with as wide an opening that will just barley for inside the TC port.

You can also now use the 1.5 TC pressure transfer fitting SS sells. I’ve got a separate Co2 tank and manifold for my FVs. When the beer is almost done fermenting I put the pressure transfer fitting on and let pressure build up a bit (the PRV releases are 2psi so not much). But if helps to maintain positive pressure while soft cooling at least.

when it’s time to dry hop just turn the Co2 on, pull the pressure transfer fitting, dump hops in quickly and put the transfer fitting back on. You can use the PRV to purge the headspace as many times as you’d like.

Been doing this for hundreds of Hoppy beers. I have some Unitanks where I can send Co2 into the headspace while adding dry hops and I don’t really Notice any difference in overall hop impact.
That's the way I do it myself. I got the 3" TC from NorCal brewing. The PRV is great for purging.
 

aaronm13

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I would add that if your process is not right going higher on dryhopping will not help your beer, you are better off starting at the lowish side (5-6oz) and working your way up.
With these high rates its very difficult to get bright flavor on a homebrew level.
I'm coming from around 16-18oz dry hop so this is small by my standards. All my last few beers have been a vegetal mess. This started when I stopped using a SS hop spider, I think anyway.
 

jturman35

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I know it been discussed in here somewhere but what is the ideal
Boil/WP/ dry hop rate?
 

jturman35

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Ideal as in successful, blown away! I brewed my first lager with using only 2 ounces of hops and blown away by how much hop character. This has led me to believe I'm over doing it. My next batch I'm shooting for these ratios below. This is one of my favorite style, but what a PITA to brew!

1oz @ 30min
1oz @ 15min

4oz WP
8OZ DH
 

Noob_Brewer

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Ideal as in successful, blown away! I brewed my first lager with using only 2 ounces of hops and blown away by how much hop character. This has led me to believe I'm over doing it. My next batch I'm shooting for these ratios below. This is one of my favorite style, but what a PITA to brew!

1oz @ 30min
1oz @ 15min

4oz WP
8OZ DH
This is pretty close to what Im doing depending on the anticipated ABV of the beer. For the boil, the additions seem fine, but just not sure what IBUs you are shooting for overall. Im typically doing a 60 minute and 5-10min addition and dosage depends on the alpha acid % to target the IBUs I want. Im thinking myself of playing around with 60,30,10minute additions as I haven't done 30min additions before. Seems like a middle ground. Have you done 30 and 15min additions before? Just curious as to what you think you've gotten out of that compared to 60min and 5 or 10min additions.
 

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CTZ/Citra NEIPA update:
ApCgQ8P.jpg


This is actually the Trillium Melcher St clone recipe, but there is better conversation on this thread.

13 lb 2 row
2.75 lb Wheat
0.5 lb Carapils
0.5 lb Crystal 15
0.7 lb Sugar

0.4 oz Columbus FWH
1 oz Columbus 10 min
3 oz Columbus whirlpool (170 for 30 min)
1 oz Columbus dry hop
4 oz Citra dry hop
2 oz Citra Lupomax dry hop
whirlfloc 10 min

Imperial Juice Gen 2

100:200 sulfate:chloride

O.G. = 1.066
F.G. = 1.013
ABV = 7%

This beer is so good. All mango and peach on the nose. Mango, peach, ripe papaya, sweet candied pineapple and smooth dankness on the finish. The thing I love about this recipe is the depth, I can't describe it very well but the flavor evolves from bright and punchy to deep as you taste it - there is a lot going on. This recipe got me a gold medal a few years ago. The only thing I changed this time was adding Lupomax into the dry hop. Highly recommend this recipe!

edit: I'm looking at this post next to my actual beer and it looks much better in real life lol, bad light
 
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R.A.I.D

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CTZ/Citra NEIPA update:
View attachment 720300

This is actually the Trillium Melcher St clone recipe, but there is better conversation on this thread.

13 lb 2 row
2.75 lb Wheat
0.5 lb Carapils
0.5 lb Crystal 15
0.7 lb Sugar

0.4 oz Columbus FWH
1 oz Columbus 10 min
3 oz Columbus whirlpool (170 for 30 min)
1 oz Columbus dry hop
4 oz Citra dry hop
2 oz Citra Lupomax dry hop
whirlfloc 10 min

Imperial Juice Gen 2

100:200 sulfate:chloride

O.G. = 1.066
F.G. = 1.013
ABV = 7%

This beer is so good. All mango and peach on the nose. Mango, peach, ripe papaya, sweet candied pineapple and smooth dankness on the finish. The thing I love about this recipe is the depth, I can't describe it very well but the flavor evolves from bright and punchy to deep as you taste it - there is a lot going on. This recipe got me a gold medal a few years ago. The only thing I changed this time was adding Lupomax into the dry hop. Highly recommend this recipe!

edit: I'm looking at this post next to my actual beer and it looks much better in real life lol, bad light
I also have a Trillium Street inspired NEIPA in the dry hop keg right now. Just used Nectaron instead of Citra. Will report back.

Did you smell and taste yours before dry hopping? How would you describe your base without the dry hop?
 

anteater8

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I also have a Trillium Street inspired NEIPA in the dry hop keg right now. Just used Nectaron instead of Citra. Will report back.

Did you smell and taste yours before dry hopping? How would you describe your base without the dry hop?
I really don't pay attention to that stuff to be honest. I know a lot of brewers like to taste along the way, but for me, tasting the beer before its at its prime gives me no indication of what it will taste like in its final form. Maybe I'm missing something! My beers might taste like crap after 13 days in the keg and then transform overnight into something great.
 

Andre3000

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PXL_20210228_040258293.jpg


This is my attempt at avoiding o2 pickup.

I welded a triclover assembly onto a 10 gal corny that functions as a "dry hop cannon". Here's how it works:

-Dry hop charge in the cannon at yeast pitch. The cannon valve (blue handle) is cracked enough to let gas through but prevents hops from passing through.
-Co2 from fermentation purges through dry hops into serving keg (not shown).
-Spund valve on serving keg towards end of fermentation.
-After soft crash, dry hop by opening cannon valve fully.
-Forced transfer under pressure by disconnecting gas quick connect and applying Co2 pressure (bronze check valve).

The latest addition to this setup was the tee, which allows me to not have to connect or disconnect any posts at any point, which I suspect are a source of o2 pickup. I'm kind of nervous about it inadvertently transferring half way through fermentation but I did a few tests and I don't think that will happen.

It's a bit of a janky diy solution but there is zero opportunity for o2 pickup.

I think there is a fallacy that hop pellets are solid. They are not. There are all sorts of nooks and crannies that entrain air. Even if you purge the headspace while you dry hop, you're more than likely picking up o2 if those hops have sat in the open air for any amount of time.
 
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beervoid

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View attachment 720408

This is my attempt at avoiding o2 pickup.

I welded a triclover assembly onto a 10 gal corny that functions as a "dry hop cannon". Here's how it works:

-Dry hop charge in the cannon at yeast pitch. The cannon valve (blue handle) is cracked enough to let gas through but prevents hops from passing through.
-Co2 from fermentation purges through dry hops into serving keg (not shown).
-Spund valve on serving keg towards end of fermentation.
-After soft crash, dry hop by opening cannon valve fully.
-Forced transfer under pressure by disconnecting gas quick connect and applying Co2 pressure (bronze check valve).

The latest addition to this setup was the tee, which allows me to not have to connect or disconnect any posts at any point, which I suspect are a source of o2 pickup. I'm kind of nervous about it inadvertently transferring half way through fermentation but I did a few tests and I don't think that will happen.

It's a bit of a janky diy solution but there is zero opportunity for o2 pickup.

I think there is a fallacy that hop pellets are solid. They are not. There are all sorts of nooks and crannies that entrain air. Even if you purge the headspace while you dry hop, you're more than likely picking up o2 if those hops have sat in the open air for any amount of time.
I wouldnt call it janky, its a very nice setup.
Have you noticed any difference from previous batches?
 
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View attachment 720408

This is my attempt at avoiding o2 pickup.

I welded a triclover assembly onto a 10 gal corny that functions as a "dry hop cannon". Here's how it works:

-Dry hop charge in the cannon at yeast pitch. The cannon valve (blue handle) is cracked enough to let gas through but prevents hops from passing through.
-Co2 from fermentation purges through dry hops into serving keg (not shown).
-Spund valve on serving keg towards end of fermentation.
-After soft crash, dry hop by opening cannon valve fully.
-Forced transfer under pressure by disconnecting gas quick connect and applying Co2 pressure (bronze check valve).

The latest addition to this setup was the tee, which allows me to not have to connect or disconnect any posts at any point, which I suspect are a source of o2 pickup. I'm kind of nervous about it inadvertently transferring half way through fermentation but I did a few tests and I don't think that will happen.

It's a bit of a janky diy solution but there is zero opportunity for o2 pickup.

I think there is a fallacy that hop pellets are solid. They are not. There are all sorts of nooks and crannies that entrain air. Even if you purge the headspace while you dry hop, you're more than likely picking up o2 if those hops have sat in the open air for any amount of time.
Nice setup! I did not know 10 gal. Corny kegs existed 🙄! Where did you get yours? All I found was some sketchy refurbished ones on ebay with questionable sanitary welds.
 

Andre3000

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I wouldnt call it janky, its a very nice setup.
Have you noticed any difference from previous batches?
I did to a point. But I still had some minor oxidation. I'm aiming for zero basically. I don't consume my beers quickly these days.
Nice setup! I did not know 10 gal. Corny kegs existed 🙄! Where did you get yours? All I found was some sketchy refurbished ones on ebay with questionable sanitary welds.
A local homebrew shop had about five of them second hand and it was first come first served. It was reasonably priced if I recall too; under or around $100 I think.
 

VirginiaHops1

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View attachment 720408

This is my attempt at avoiding o2 pickup.

I welded a triclover assembly onto a 10 gal corny that functions as a "dry hop cannon". Here's how it works:

-Dry hop charge in the cannon at yeast pitch. The cannon valve (blue handle) is cracked enough to let gas through but prevents hops from passing through.
-Co2 from fermentation purges through dry hops into serving keg (not shown).
-Spund valve on serving keg towards end of fermentation.
-After soft crash, dry hop by opening cannon valve fully.
-Forced transfer under pressure by disconnecting gas quick connect and applying Co2 pressure (bronze check valve).

The latest addition to this setup was the tee, which allows me to not have to connect or disconnect any posts at any point, which I suspect are a source of o2 pickup. I'm kind of nervous about it inadvertently transferring half way through fermentation but I did a few tests and I don't think that will happen.

It's a bit of a janky diy solution but there is zero opportunity for o2 pickup.

I think there is a fallacy that hop pellets are solid. They are not. There are all sorts of nooks and crannies that entrain air. Even if you purge the headspace while you dry hop, you're more than likely picking up o2 if those hops have sat in the open air for any amount of time.
Nice. I ferment in 5 gal cornys and have often daydreamed about how it would be cool to modify it and add something like that. Too bad I don't weld.

Question though. If you're going through all that trouble to add the dry hopper I would think the goal would be to be able to purge the dry hops going in with gas, so they're not sitting there at ferm temps the whole time? I essentially do the same thing but with a 2nd dry hop keg, loaded with hops and purged via fermentation. Obviously it's optimal O2 prevention but my only concern has been wondering if there's any degradation while they're sitting there. The absolute perfect method(IMO) would be having a contraption like yours where you can keep the hops sealed and frozen until the second before you need them, but still be able to completely purge them of O2.
 

Dgallo

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Nice. I ferment in 5 gal cornys and have often daydreamed about how it would be cool to modify it and add something like that. Too bad I don't weld.

Question though. If you're going through all that trouble to add the dry hopper I would think the goal would be to be able to purge the dry hops going in with gas, so they're not sitting there at ferm temps the whole time? I essentially do the same thing but with a 2nd dry hop keg, loaded with hops and purged via fermentation. Obviously it's optimal O2 prevention but my only concern has been wondering if there's any degradation while they're sitting there. The absolute perfect method(IMO) would be having a contraption like yours where you can keep the hops sealed and frozen until the second before you need them, but still be able to completely purge them of O2.
Idk if he is around anymore but I am almost certain @kevink built exactly what you’re talking about. If I recall it was vacuum/purging chamber
 

VirginiaHops1

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Idk if he is around anymore but I am almost certain @kevink built exactly what you’re talking about. If I recall it was vacuum/purging chamber
I remember that post, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't a corny though. It's not hard to do that on a vessel with TCs, although the vacuum part was unique. Welding one onto a corny keg certainly is pretty cool.
 

Dgallo

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I remember that post, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't a corny though. It's not hard to do that on a vessel with TCs, although the vacuum part was unique. Welding one onto a corny keg certainly is pretty cool.
True but isn’t @Andre3000 weld set up for TCs now? So he could potentially do it
 

VirginiaHops1

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True but isn’t @Andre3000 weld set up for TCs now? So he could potentially do it
Absolutely he could. I was mainly just curious his thought process on why he put the hops in the chamber and purged with fermentation, vs keeping the hops sealed and thoroughly purging them with gas immediately before dry hopping.
 

Dgallo

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Absolutely he could. I was mainly just curious his thought process on why he put the hops in the chamber and purged with fermentation, vs keeping the hops sealed and thoroughly purging them with gas immediately before dry hopping.
Now I understand. Sorry we just had our second baby this week and the lack of sleep has made my brain a little slower lol
 

Andre3000

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Absolutely he could. I was mainly just curious his thought process on why he put the hops in the chamber and purged with fermentation, vs keeping the hops sealed and thoroughly purging them with gas immediately before dry hopping.
I did draw my inspiration from @kevink .

You know, I thought of this and I am concerned about it as well. I don't like the thought of the hops sitting there for days either, but for the majority of the time they will be surrounded by CO2. A one time purge isn't really a straightforward operation either if you think about the steps required and you buy my nooks and crannies theory.

I also kind of have this idea in my head that the CO2 going past the hops is stripping out the delicious volatiles and bye bye they go out the air lock. Not sure how real that is either.

This is the first time I'm trying loading them into the chamber for the entire duration. We'll see if it still produces delicious beer. Will definitely report back.
 

Dgallo

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Has anyone used spelt as their base malt for a NEIPA? If so, what did you think?
 

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Has anyone used spelt as their base malt for a NEIPA? If so, what did you think?
I have not myself. I have used spelt before (wheat ale) but not as a base malt. From my readings on it (mostly from BYO I think and online retailers selling it), it is really a wheat grain but higher in proteins than white wheat. So I have only seen it as a substitute for wheat. I still have some myself to use up and have considered using it instead of my normal white wheat % and then bumping it up a bit. Its suppose to have a "soft and pillowy" mouthfeel (marketing gimmick? lol). My only fear is if its used in two high of amount that it gets "chewy" which is how I describe white wheat when used in high amounts. FWIW, in my wheat ale, I actually split my 50% white wheat into 20% white wheat / 30% spelt. Beer turned out great but have no clue how spelt contributed because that was the only wheat beer Ive made to date lol. Sorry I couldn't be more of a help.
 

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The list grows
View attachment 720725
Cashmere’s AA Is only 13.5 which is awesome.
"only" 13.5% AA? Isn't cashmere AAs lower than that for the t90 pellets? Never used LUPOMAX hops yet myself, but it seems that since they are concentrated, as far as the AAs are concerned, you would need less to get IBUs you want on the hot side for sure. But for DH I think I wouldn't mind using my same hop dosages with LUPOMAX to get more intense flavors with the same dosage rather than using less ounces for the same intensity as nonlupomax pellets. How have others been doing this with DHing? Keeping your same recipe dosages if using LUPOMAX or reducing the dosages? Im hoping that they release Idaho 7 on this this year.
 

Dgallo

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"only" 13.5% AA? Isn't cashmere AAs lower than that for the t90 pellets? Never used LUPOMAX hops yet myself, but it seems that since they are concentrated, as far as the AAs are concerned, you would need less to get IBUs you want on the hot side for sure.
It is. But its still lower than most of our major players t90 pellets but your getting nearly twice the concentration. Meaning for those who believe there is a benefit from hotside additions, could use it at higher rate hotside without having to worry as much about ibus
 
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beervoid

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"only" 13.5% AA? Isn't cashmere AAs lower than that for the t90 pellets? Never used LUPOMAX hops yet myself, but it seems that since they are concentrated, as far as the AAs are concerned, you would need less to get IBUs you want on the hot side for sure. But for DH I think I wouldn't mind using my same hop dosages with LUPOMAX to get more intense flavors with the same dosage rather than using less ounces for the same intensity as nonlupomax pellets. How have others been doing this with DHing? Keeping your same recipe dosages if using LUPOMAX or reducing the dosages? Im hoping that they release Idaho 7 on this this year.
I would say the opppsite, the idea behind these products is less vegetal matter, which imho really helps for brighter and more expressive hop flavor.
 

Noob_Brewer

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I would say the opppsite, the idea behind these products is less vegetal matter, which imho really helps for brighter and more expressive hop flavor.
Not sure I follow what you are saying. I get that these hops are more efficient at producing the true hop flavor with less vegetal matter/flavors, but Im wondering HOW peeps have been using them. Are people generally using the same dosages(ounces) as the regular t90 pellet recipes in order to get even more intense hop flavors OR are people generally using less dosages (because they are more "efficient" at delivering what we want - flavor) which would theoretically result in similar flavor profiles as the t90 pellets? Thanks!

EDIT: I would also like to see the total oil content of these products and not just the AAs as mentioned on YVH website. Unless, the total oil content is the same as t90 pellets? It would seem to me more than just the AAs would differ compared to t90 pellets? Just trying to best understand the product is all.
 
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BeerFst

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Not sure I follow what you are saying. I get that these hops are more efficient at producing the true hop flavor with less vegetal matter/flavors, but Im wondering HOW peeps have been using them. Are people generally using the same dosages(ounces) as the regular t90 pellet recipes in order to get even more intense hop flavors OR are people generally using less dosages (because they are more "efficient" at delivering what we want - flavor) which would theoretically result in similar flavor profiles as the t90 pellets? Thanks!

EDIT: I would also like to see the total oil content of these products and not just the AAs as mentioned on YVH website. Unless, the total oil content is the same as t90 pellets? It would seem to me more than just the AAs would differ compared to t90 pellets? Just trying to best understand the product is all.
Admittedly I’ve never used them but would match ibu hot side, match weight on dry hop. Whirlpool is a bit tougher, not sure what I’d do
 

Noob_Brewer

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Admittedly I’ve never used them but would match ibu hot side, match weight on dry hop. Whirlpool is a bit tougher, not sure what I’d do
I agree on this as Ive not used the lupomax myself yet either. For whirlpool, if AAs are higher than normal t90 pellets, I would imagine that you'd want to go low for temps ~150ish to get the flavors without adding significant IBUs.
 

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