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American IPA "Northeast" style IPA

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HopsAreGood

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Yeah it seems to go against everything we've been told about hop storage, haha. Would suck to loose a lb of dry hops but you've done it many times by the sounds of it so sounds good. Going to try this on my next brew, ordered some mesh bags today so should be all set.
Try it out. The way I see it is keeping hops cold is important for long term storage. If you leave a vacuum sealed bag of hops at room temp for a week or two I highly doubt you’ll notice a difference with one that’s been kept cold. Containing the hops within a purged keg is very similar to a purged bag or any other oxygen free container. As I said, I like to do a few manual purge cycles prior to the ferm co2 kicking in. You could also wait until ferm starts before putting them in.

This is one of my favorite podcasts. I suggest listening to to the whole thing but if you go to 50 minutes in you’ll hear them talk about hop storage. Apparently Alvarado Street has intentionally stored their hops at room temp.

Tons of awesome discussion throughout the whole podcast though.
 

JoeMamasIPA

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I've never actually thought about this and not sure how big of a deal it is since fermentation activity should keep O2 at bay, but I think your logic/reasoning is sound. I've been using the same vinyl tubing for my main jumper for awhile and when I need more jumpers I use EVABarrier since I bought a big spool of it from Morebeer with the duotight fittings. Love those things and EVABarrier is supposedly much more impermeable to O2. Check it out if you want to maximize your LODO nerdiness(joking)
Funny thing is that I have a bunch of EVABarrier lying around but no more fittings to get to the QD's. Just need to stop being cheap and grab some. With vinyl my beer would get noticeably oxidized in the lines after 2 days. It takes 10 days to even start changing with EVA. Probably waaay overkill but its all so easy so why not?
 

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Try it out. The way I see it is keeping hops cold is important for long term storage. If you leave a vacuum sealed bag of hops at room temp for a week or two I highly doubt you’ll notice a difference with one that’s been kept cold. Containing the hops within a purged keg is very similar to a purged bag or any other oxygen free container. As I said, I like to do a few manual purge cycles prior to the ferm co2 kicking in. You could also wait until ferm starts before putting them in.

This is one of my favorite podcasts. I suggest listening to to the whole thing but if you go to 50 minutes in you’ll hear them talk about hop storage. Apparently Alvarado Street has intentionally stored their hops at room temp.

Tons of awesome discussion throughout the whole podcast though.
Thanks for all the advice. When you think about it, it does make sense. I'll give that podcast a listen too. Desperate to get more hop bang from my brews so will try anything at this stage.
 

JoeMamasIPA

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Thanks for all the advice. When you think about it, it does make sense. I'll give that podcast a listen too. Desperate to get more hop bang from my brews so will try anything at this stage.
My hop flavor improved the most when I started soft crashing before the DH. I like to go fairly cold (45) and longer than most (72 hours) taking care not to disturb the fermenter before transferring to the DH keg. Minimizing O2 keeps the flavor bright.
 

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Boil (10.3% of total hops): 60min - Columbus 0.50oz, 10min - Columbus and Riwaka 0.50oz for each (1.5oz total)
WP @ 155 (34.5% of total hops): Riwaka - 3.0oz, Galaxy - 1.5oz, Nelson - 0.50oz (5oz total)
DryHop (55.2% of total hops): Nelson - 4.5oz, Galaxy - 2oz, Riwaka - 1.5oz (8oz total)
So I brewed this up a week ago and just took the hydrometer sample and its great. Very smooth, has a nice fruit but earthiness depth as well. Heavy Riwaka on the hot side compared to nelson and galaxy. Tasting my hydrometer sample side-by-side with my riwaka single hop pale ale, I notice a little "peppery" type of vibe on the pale ale but its not evident in the hydrometer sample of the current beer (No DH additions yet). So Im thinking that since I want the white wine of nelson with passion fruit of nelson and galaxy as well - might not keep riwaka in the DH. So Im up for suggestions on the DH portion of this now. I know galaxy has high oil content so thats why Ive hit nelson hard here in the DH. Thoughts on the DH addition would be appreciated. Im probably second guessing myself lol.

EDIT: FWIW, all three hops (riwaka, galaxy, nelson) are 2020 lots. I haven't used 2020 nelson yet, so wasn't sure how much it differed from 2019 when I got VERY nice white wine/gooseberry type vibes.
 

Dgallo

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Thanks for all the advice. When you think about it, it does make sense. I'll give that podcast a listen too. Desperate to get more hop bang from my brews so will try anything at this stage.
What’s your dryhoping rate? There has been a lot of talk here over the past few pages that in my eyes is far too much for clean varietal specific profiles to show themselves. More hops is not always better and can actually mute and muddy the aroma and flavor. Granted there is more oils and thoils in more hops but you are also increasing the amount of any undesirable compounds and Plant material profiles from the hops.

For a 5 gallon finished batch, I target my dryhop amount as followed,

-6-8 oz for a single ipa
-8-10oz for a double
-10-12oz for a Triple

Practically 1.2-2.25 oz/gallon in respect to OG

I get nice bright flavors and aromas with these amounts
 

secretlevel

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So I brewed this up a week ago and just took the hydrometer sample and its great. Very smooth, has a nice fruit but earthiness depth as well. Heavy Riwaka on the hot side compared to nelson and galaxy. Tasting my hydrometer sample side-by-side with my riwaka single hop pale ale, I notice a little "peppery" type of vibe on the pale ale but its not evident in the hydrometer sample of the current beer (No DH additions yet). So Im thinking that since I want the white wine of nelson with passion fruit of nelson and galaxy as well - might not keep riwaka in the DH. So Im up for suggestions on the DH portion of this now. I know galaxy has high oil content so thats why Ive hit nelson hard here in the DH. Thoughts on the DH addition would be appreciated. Im probably second guessing myself lol.

EDIT: FWIW, all three hops (riwaka, galaxy, nelson) are 2020 lots. I haven't used 2020 nelson yet, so wasn't sure how much it differed from 2019 when I got VERY nice white wine/gooseberry type vibes.
That's been my exact experience with Riwaka from YVH - huge peppery diesel note that's a bit off-putting. It really overpowered the other half of the dry hop, which was Citra. I think you're on the right path there to get the white wine from Nelson.

Janish came to a similar conclusion in one of his recent blogs:
Unique from most of the other varieties regularly used in hop-forward beers, I find it can have a fruity candied-grape character with a little spiciness (which can come across as diesely to some)...
Citra or Galaxy might be great choices to pair with a beer like this rather than the post-fermentation Riwaka addition.
 

ChiknNutz

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What’s your dryhoping rate? There has been a lot of talk here over the past few pages that in my eyes is far too much for clean varietal specific profiles to show themselves. More hops is not always better and can actually mute and muddy the aroma and flavor. Granted there is more oils and thoils in more hops but you are also increasing the amount of any undesirable compounds and Plant material profiles from the hops.

For a 5 gallon finished batch, I target my dryhop amount as followed,

-6-8 oz for a single ipa
-8-10oz for a double
-10-12oz for a Triple

Practically 1.2-2.25 oz/gallon in respect to OG

I get nice bright flavors and aromas with these amounts
What constitutes a 1X, 2X or 3X IPA? From what I've read thus far, they are a bit arbitrary and there is nothing really definitive of where one begins or ends.
 

HopsAreGood

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What constitutes a 1X, 2X or 3X IPA? From what I've read thus far, they are a bit arbitrary and there is nothing really definitive of where one begins or ends.
Nothing is set in stone but typically a single is around 6, a double around 8 and a triple around 10....ABV
 

Dgallo

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What constitutes a 1X, 2X or 3X IPA? From what I've read thus far, they are a bit arbitrary and there is nothing really definitive of where one begins or ends.
The only one that doesn’t have a style guideline in the BJCP is the triple, so I would argue that it is defined. But as @HopsAreGood stated, those are the typical ranges. TH Is the only brewery I can think off the top of my head that sets a double below 8%. They start their doubles at 7.8. That being said bjcp goes 5.5 for single and 7.5 starting double
 
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HopsAreGood

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The only one that doesn’t have a style guideline in the BJCP is the triple, so I would argue that it is defined. But as @HopsAreGood stated, those are the typical ranges. TH Is the only brewery I know of tht sets a double below 8%. They start their doubles at 7.8. That being said bjcp goes 5.5 for single and 7.5 starting double
Good point....the numbers I listed are simply what I see from the far majority of breweries. A good baseline to use.
 

chieftain

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While that sounds like a good approach it might lead to a lot of condensation in the DH keg with humid, 65 degree air getting pumped into a cold chamber. Probably wouldn't matter though, its just some liquid. In my experience the room temps for 3 days don't hurt the hops at all. I am getting killer hop flavor at 1oz per gallon dry hop rates so I don't feel the need to make it more complicated.

Also, this is going to sound LODO, but I keep the keg-to-keg jumper tubing short out of fear of Oxygen ingress through the tubing. That vinyl tubing lets in a lot of O2 but I feel like if I keep it short and essentially in a CO2 environment (keezer is flooded with fermentation CO2) it keeps the O2 ingress low.

Give it a try though if its easy enough to do and see what you think.
This is helpful thanks. The condensation I had not considered. I just switched over to eva barrier lines, so less worried about the O2 ingress.
 

Dgallo

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So I brewed this up a week ago and just took the hydrometer sample and its great. Very smooth, has a nice fruit but earthiness depth as well. Heavy Riwaka on the hot side compared to nelson and galaxy. Tasting my hydrometer sample side-by-side with my riwaka single hop pale ale, I notice a little "peppery" type of vibe on the pale ale but its not evident in the hydrometer sample of the current beer (No DH additions yet). So Im thinking that since I want the white wine of nelson with passion fruit of nelson and galaxy as well - might not keep riwaka in the DH. So Im up for suggestions on the DH portion of this now. I know galaxy has high oil content so thats why Ive hit nelson hard here in the DH. Thoughts on the DH addition would be appreciated. Im probably second guessing myself lol.

EDIT: FWIW, all three hops (riwaka, galaxy, nelson) are 2020 lots. I haven't used 2020 nelson yet, so wasn't sure how much it differed from 2019 when I got VERY nice white wine/gooseberry type vibes.
My last double that I did used Riwaka/cascade hotside and Nelson/Galaxy in dryhop. I planned to do a 3:2 ratio of Nelson to Galaxy but out of the bag the 2020 Nelson character was extremely strong (10.4 AA batch believe from YVH.) The Galaxy was great too but the Nelson trumped it. So I switched the 3:2 to Galaxy to Nelson. It came out really good but Nelson still took the lead. I would say smell them first and see how they compare and come up with a ratio you think will give you the best shot at the profile you’d like.

You can even do a mini scaling in .25oz intervals of the hops in a cup, shake them up and smell them blended to see which ratio would work the best and then bump it up to the scale you need for the beer. Not perfect science by any means but it definitely will help guide you
 
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Noob_Brewer

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That's been my exact experience with Riwaka from YVH - huge peppery diesel note that's a bit off-putting. It really overpowered the other half of the dry hop, which was Citra. I think you're on the right path there to get the white wine from Nelson.

Janish came to a similar conclusion in one of his recent blogs:
Thanks for the insight. My Riwaka pale ale only had 2oz in the DH and its great overall. The spicy/pepper/diesel is definitely present but not overpowering, mostly complimentary. But that may be only because I used 2oz lol. Based on my hydrometer sample today (pre-dry hop) with mostly riwaka on hot side, there is really no diesel/pepper so leads me to believe the pepper aspect of riwaka comes from the dry hop side of things. I didn't see that blog, but good reference from what Im experiencing for sure. FWIW, I like some diesel-like qualities from NZ hop varieties, but for this beer, I just don't want it to take the front seat ahead of the white wine/passionfruit Im after from the dry hop. Because I haven't used riwaka with anything else before this beer, my fear is the "diesel" from both riwaka and nelson might be amplified when considered together rather than simplifying my dry hop charges to just nelson and galaxy. I know nelson will give me some diesel punch anyways by itself (at least it did for 2019 lots). Hmmmmm, got a lot to think about here, but its fun trying to figure this all out. Cheers!
 

Noob_Brewer

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My last double that I did used Riwaka/cascade hotside and Nelson/Galaxy in dryhop. I planned to do a 3:2 ratio of Nelson to Galaxy but out of the bag the 2020 Nelson character was extremely strong (10.4 AA batch believe from YVH.) The Galaxy was great too but the Nelson trumped it. So I switched the 3:2 to Galaxy to Nelson. It came out really good but Nelson still took the lead. I would say smell them first and see how they compare and come up with a ratio you think will give you the best shot at the profile you’d like.

You can even do a mini scaling in .25oz intervals of the hops in a cup, shake them up and smell them blended to see which ratio would work the best and then bump it up to the scale you need for the beer. Not perfect science by any means but it definitely will help guide you
WOW! This is great insight given I haven't used the 2020 lot of Nelson. If anyone would've ever told me that any hop can take the lead over galaxy despite using more galaxy, I wouldn't believe it lol. When you say Nelson trumped it, is this in terms of the white wine aspect or diesel character or both? My hydro sample today was great as it has lots going on and its a beautiful flavor profile overall: has some earthy depth (probably due to columbus) with nice tropical aspect but not one-dimensional. But I want/need the DH to definitely brighten it up some with the passionfruit and white wine characters. Agreed that my final ratio may be based on smelling them out of the bag because, galaxy (from YVH) was hit or miss in terms of potency prior to 2020 IMO, but the 2020 galaxy Ive had was pretty intense and glorious. Haven't opened any bags of nelson 2020 yet. In the end, as long as I keep sound processes to minimize oxygen, Im 100% positive this beer will end up being killer either way, but Im trying my best to be more strategic with my additions now to achieve flavor profiles I am looking for so your assessment of Nelson 2020 is helpful. Thanks again as always man!
 

HopsAreGood

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WOW! This is great insight given I haven't used the 2020 lot of Nelson. If anyone would've ever told me that any hop can take the lead over galaxy despite using more galaxy, I wouldn't believe it lol. When you say Nelson trumped it, is this in terms of the white wine aspect or diesel character or both? My hydro sample today was great as it has lots going on and its a beautiful flavor profile overall: has some earthy depth (probably due to columbus) with nice tropical aspect but not one-dimensional. But I want/need the DH to definitely brighten it up some with the passionfruit and white wine characters. Agreed that my final ratio may be based on smelling them out of the bag because, galaxy (from YVH) was hit or miss in terms of potency prior to 2020 IMO, but the 2020 galaxy Ive had was pretty intense and glorious. Haven't opened any bags of nelson 2020 yet. In the end, as long as I keep sound processes to minimize oxygen, Im 100% positive this beer will end up being killer either way, but Im trying my best to be more strategic with my additions now to achieve flavor profiles I am looking for so your assessment of Nelson 2020 is helpful. Thanks again as always man!
I’ve used a ton of the 2020 Nelson from YVH and have to say I’ve been underwhelmed. It’s not bad in any way but it’s also not great if I’m being honest. I bought several pounds of it all in 2 oz. packages with plans of doing several Nelson “and another hop” beers but kind of veered away from that.

I’ve done a single hop all Nelson Beer, a Citra/Nelson, a galaxy/strata/Nelson, and a few others where I blended the Nelson in at 20-40%. None of them exhibited the typical white whine characteristic that it’s touted for. Again, in my opinion it’s not bad at all, but if I’m being completely honest..it’s lacked the punch I was hoping for. Your mileage may vary.

I’ll also add that some of the 2019 YVH Nelson did in fact provide some of those characteristics that are so sought after. My processes have remained largely the same.
 

Dgallo

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WOW! This is great insight given I haven't used the 2020 lot of Nelson. If anyone would've ever told me that any hop can take the lead over galaxy despite using more galaxy, I wouldn't believe it lol. When you say Nelson trumped it, is this in terms of the white wine aspect or diesel character or both?
The pellets smelled great. Very white wine with some pleasant earthiness. It just had a stronger overall aroma than Galaxy. When switching the ratio to lead with Galaxy, the Nelson still lead the flavor but not to an extreme extend (if I kept the original ratio, I think it may have been) In the final beer, it had some underlying earthy-dank/diesel notes but much stronger grape/white wine with complementary passionfruit.

The more Nelson you use, the more machine oil/earthy-dankness you will get, as it’s part of its profile. for reference, I used 6oz of Galaxy and 4 oz of Nelson. If I brewed the beer again I will drop the dryhop to 5.5oz of Galaxy and
2.5oz of Nelson
 

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I’ve used a ton of the 2020 Nelson from YVH and have to say I’ve been underwhelmed. It’s not bad in any way but it’s also not great if I’m being honest. I bought several pounds of it all in 2 oz. packages with plans of doing several Nelson “and another hop” beers but kind of veered away from that.

I’ve done a single hop all Nelson Beer, a Citra/Nelson, a galaxy/strata/Nelson, and a few others where I blended the Nelson in at 20-40%. None of them exhibited the typical white whine characteristic that it’s touted for. Again, in my opinion it’s not bad at all, but if I’m being completely honest..it’s lacked the punch I was hoping for. Your mileage may vary.

I’ll also add that some of the 2019 YVH Nelson did in fact provide some of those characteristics that are so sought after. My processes have remained largely the same.
Interesting, but what a gut punch/downer eh? Seems based on peoples experiences here that the 2020 Nelson may simply be more inconsistent than 2019 when I always got the white wine with NZ diesel that I loved. So I guess this is where the "art of brewing" comes into play. My 2020 lots of galaxy, riwaka, and nelson are all in 2oz packs, so if/when it comes time to DH, Ill bust them open and smell em to decide. My palate/nose is still in "training" lol but it is obvious to me at the extremes for sure.
 

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The pellets smelled great. Very white wine with some pleasant earthiness. It just had a stronger overall aroma than Galaxy. When switching the ratio to lead with Galaxy, the Nelson still lead the flavor but not to an extreme extend (if I kept the original ratio, I think it may have been) In the final beer, it had some underlying earthy-dank/diesel notes but much stronger grape/white wine with complementary passionfruit.

The more Nelson you use, the more machine oil/earthy-dankness you will get, as it’s part of its profile. for reference, I used 6oz of Galaxy and 4 oz of Nelson. If I brewed the beer again I will drop the dryhop to 5.5oz of Galaxy and
2.5oz of Nelson
Thanks again! Yeah my beer clocked in at 7.5% so Im calling that a "low" double IPA lol. So will be sticking with 7.5-8oz DH which for me adds plenty of aroma/flavor and I feel like Ive built a solid flavor profile on the hot side thus far too. Will keep ya'll posted on what I decide when I open up some 2oz hop packs!
 

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Interesting, but what a gut punch/downer eh? Seems based on peoples experiences here that the 2020 Nelson may simply be more inconsistent than 2019 when I always got the white wine with NZ diesel that I loved. So I guess this is where the "art of brewing" comes into play. My 2020 lots of galaxy, riwaka, and nelson are all in 2oz packs, so if/when it comes time to DH, Ill bust them open and smell em to decide. My palate/nose is still in "training" lol but it is obvious to me at the extremes for sure.
Sorry for the gut punch...not my intention at all. Just sharing my experience. The Nelson you have may be incredible. Report back and let us know how it goes.
 

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What’s your dryhoping rate? There has been a lot of talk here over the past few pages that in my eyes is far too much for clean varietal specific profiles to show themselves. More hops is not always better and can actually mute and muddy the aroma and flavor. Granted there is more oils and thoils in more hops but you are also increasing the amount of any undesirable compounds and Plant material profiles from the hops.

For a 5 gallon finished batch, I target my dryhop amount as followed,

-6-8 oz for a single ipa
-8-10oz for a double
-10-12oz for a Triple

Practically 1.2-2.25 oz/gallon in respect to OG

I get nice bright flavors and aromas with these amounts
I definitely go higher than that. So for example my latest brew is a 7.5% DIPA with Citra, Mosaic and Bru-1. It's only in the keg just under 2 weeks now and so far is pretty underwhelming. It's early days for this one I know but is following a similar path to my other brews over the last few months. So this one was dry hopped with 480g/16.9oz. This is roughly 24g/L. I dry hopped 3 times with this one.

Went back to a dry hop during fermentation this time as looking back at my notes I was still doing this early last year when I was still happy with what I was producing. So I added 4.2oz loose into the fermenter at 48 hours. I did a soft crash after fermentation was complete and added 6.3oz to a star san purged keg. After 48 hours I added another 6.3oz to the keg. Purged a few more times. All keg hops were added loose too.

So do you think my high dry hopping rates are actually having a negative effect on my brews?
 

Dgallo

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I definitely go higher than that. So for example my latest brew is a 7.5% DIPA with Citra, Mosaic and Bru-1. It's only in the keg just under 2 weeks now and so far is pretty underwhelming. It's early days for this one I know but is following a similar path to my other brews over the last few months. So this one was dry hopped with 480g/16.9oz. This is roughly 24g/L. I dry hopped 3 times with this one.

Went back to a dry hop during fermentation this time as looking back at my notes I was still doing this early last year when I was still happy with what I was producing. So I added 4.2oz loose into the fermenter at 48 hours. I did a soft crash after fermentation was complete and added 6.3oz to a star san purged keg. After 48 hours I added another 6.3oz to the keg. Purged a few more times. All keg hops were added loose too.

So do you think my high dry hopping rates are actually having a negative effect on my brews?
Your dryhop uses 2-4 more oz than I use in my entire beer. Only my triples will I use a lb of hops in total. You’re dryhoping with what’s equivalent to 6.5 lbs/bbl of t90 pellets that are Homebrew quality. In my eyes that is a lot, I know a lot of breweries will claim this, but many of them have access to far better hops than us. They also use this number as marketing it’s not actually 7 lb/bbl of t90 pellets going in. OH for example counts their advanced hop product amounts in this figure. For example they will claim they dryhopped with “equivalent” of 7 lb/bbl and which in reality could be 3lb/bbl of cryo and 1lb/bbl. I’ve included a picture from their website so you know what I mean and this time they say 15lb/bbl


I know their are many ppl in the thread may do this. I’m not saying it’s wrong, but I would certainly implore you to try to reduce you hopping totals to about 2.5-3.0 oz/gallon in total and 1.2 - 2 oz/gallon. I’d also suggest cutting your dryhop to 1 or 2 addition (I still use 2). If you are following the best practices and process outlined in this thread for dryhoping and anti-o2, I think you will see much brighter and truer varietal specific character in your beers with a reduced hop amount
20438CF0-F452-4996-B854-1C2E76AB07C5.jpeg
 
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HopsAreGood

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Your dryhop uses 2-4 more oz than I use in my entire beer. Only my triples will I use a lb of hops in total. You’re dryhoping with what’s equivalent to 6.5 lbs/bbl of t90 pellets that are Homebrew quality. In my eyes that is a lot, I know a lot of breweries will claim this, but many of them have access to far better hops than us. They also use this number as marketing it’s not actually 7 lb/bbl of t90 pellets going in. OH for example counts their advanced hop product amounts in this figure. For example they will claim they dryhopped with “equivalent” of 7 lb/bbl and which in reality could be 3lb/bbl of cryo and 1lb/bbl. I’ve included a picture from their website so you know what I mean and this time they say 15lb/bbl


I know their are many ppl in the thread may do this. I’m not saying it’s wrong, but I would certainly implore you to try to reduce you hopping totals to about 2.5-3.0 oz/gallon in total and 1.2 - 2 oz/gallon. I’d also suggest cutting your dryhop to 1 or 2 addition (I still use 2). If you are following the best practices and process outlined in this thread for dryhoping and anti-o2, I think you will see much brighter and truer varietal specific character in your beers with a reduced hop amountView attachment 715215
For these Insane beers like 15 pounds per barrel, they definitely use a combination of advanced hop products. But most of the breweries that I know and follow typically list things like cryo, incognito, Lupo Maxx, etc. in their beer descriptions because it makes them sound special. They want to get credit for using these ingredients because people think they sound cool, or feel like they should buy it because it has special ingredients.

I’ve seen Trillium list a beer that was 11 pounds per barrel, and I’m sure they were using incognito and whatever else to get to that level. But for a lot of breweries who are saying they’re dry hopping at five, six, even 7 pounds per barrel, I have no doubt that a lot of them are using only pellets. Granted, the quality of their pellets is probably superior to ours, but it’s certainly possible to use that much with just pellets and not have a muddy Finished product.
 

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Your dryhop uses 2-4 more oz than I use in my entire beer. Only my triples will I use a lb of hops in total. You’re dryhoping with what’s equivalent to 6.5 lbs/bbl of t90 pellets that are Homebrew quality. In my eyes that is a lot, I know a lot of breweries will claim this, but many of them have access to far better hops than us. They also use this number as marketing it’s not actually 7 lb/bbl of t90 pellets going in. OH for example counts their advanced hop product amounts in this figure. For example they will claim they dryhopped with “equivalent” of 7 lb/bbl and which in reality could be 3lb/bbl of cryo and 1lb/bbl. I’ve included a picture from their website so you know what I mean and this time they say 15lb/bbl


I know their are many ppl in the thread may do this. I’m not saying it’s wrong, but I would certainly implore you to try to reduce you hopping totals to about 2.5-3.0 oz/gallon in total and 1.2 - 2 oz/gallon. I’d also suggest cutting your dryhop to 1 or 2 addition (I still use 2). If you are following the best practices and process outlined in this thread for dryhoping and anti-o2, I think you will see much brighter and truer varietal specific character in your beers with a reduced hop amountView attachment 715215
Hey, I'll give it a try, I've nothing to loose at this stage and so much more to gain and save hop wise. On this beer I outlined I took a sample when I transferred to the dry hop keg and I was so impressed with the hop flavor already and the was after only 4.2oz.

I weigh out all my hops on brew day so I had the 3 separate dry hops in vacuum bags. I said to myself that I'm going to try the beer after the second dry hop (6.3oz) as I was really happy with the sample but for whatever reason I forgot and went and added the third charge. If I had of done this I would have seen what it was like with 10.5oz so at the upper limit of your recommended range. Muddy would be a great description of the flavors as I can't pick out any of the individual hop flavors and with that amount of Citra it should be bursting with flavor at this stage. Worst case scenario, if I'm not happy with flavors with the lower amounts I could always add some more to the serving keg. These beers cost me a lot of money so any savings would be fantastic.

I'll give you another example of my rates if you don't mind me picking your brain, this is a combo you're familiar with as it's your Cashmere, Amarillo, Citra and Sabro so 5G batch and 1.080 Other Half Oat Cream DIPA, dry hopped with
Cashmere - 7.2oz
Amarillo - 4.4oz
Citra Lupomx and T90 - 2.1oz
Sabro Lupomax - 2.1oz

Best way to describe the flavor would be a mess at the start. was getting very little hop flavor. Was pretty unpleasant to drink and I really thought about dumping it. Left it for a while and went back to it, The Sabro really took over to the point it was pure Pina colada. It's drinkable now but if I got it in a bar I wouldn't order another.

So would these level line up with your thinking about more hops is not always a good thing?
 

JoeMamasIPA

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I am in the 1oz per gallon DH boat for DIPAs (7.5-8.5 ABV) when using Citra/Mosaic/Galaxy/Eldo and I am not left wanting more. Some lower AA hops/oils I would bump it to 1.5oz per gallon. I used to dump a metric ton of hops in but I always felt like I was waiting for the beer to settle in and change flavor.
 

TBryerton

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I definitely go higher than that. So for example my latest brew is a 7.5% DIPA with Citra, Mosaic and Bru-1. It's only in the keg just under 2 weeks now and so far is pretty underwhelming. It's early days for this one I know but is following a similar path to my other brews over the last few months. So this one was dry hopped with 480g/16.9oz. This is roughly 24g/L. I dry hopped 3 times with this one.

Went back to a dry hop during fermentation this time as looking back at my notes I was still doing this early last year when I was still happy with what I was producing. So I added 4.2oz loose into the fermenter at 48 hours. I did a soft crash after fermentation was complete and added 6.3oz to a star san purged keg. After 48 hours I added another 6.3oz to the keg. Purged a few more times. All keg hops were added loose too.

So do you think my high dry hopping rates are actually having a negative effect on my brews?
I don’t. I think most of the breweries pushing out high end hoppy beers are adding ALOT of hops. If you look at Other Half’s All Together recipe they use 10oz of DHs (pellets). Their DDH version of this beer is closer to what they typically push out.

I just kicked the keg of my most recent IPA. It tasted very similar to what Fidens is pushing out. I liked mine a little more - mine was less muddled, but not quite the mouthfeel they get. I used 16oz just in the DH. I also used hops in the boil and WP.

Maybe I wouldn’t of lost much if I used less hops. But personally, when I consider the amount of time spent on one batch from grain to glass, I’m not gonna nickel and dime my beer to save a few bucks. That’s just my mindset, obviously everyone approaches these things differently.
 

HopsAreGood

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I don’t. I think most of the breweries pushing out high end hoppy beers are adding ALOT of hops. If you look at Other Half’s All Together recipe they use 10oz of DHs (pellets). Their DDH version of this beer is closer to what they typically push out.

I just kicked the keg of my most recent IPA. It tasted very similar to what Fidens is pushing out. I liked mine a little more - mine was less muddled, but not quite the mouthfeel they get. I used 16oz just in the DH. I also used hops in the boil and WP.

Maybe I wouldn’t of lost much if I used less hops. But personally, when I consider the amount of time spent on one batch from grain to glass, I’m not gonna nickel and dime my beer to save a few bucks. That’s just my mindset, obviously everyone approaches these things differently.
The recipe that Verdant released for Even Sharks Need Water has about 3 oz. whirlpool and 11 oz. dry hop for a 6.5% beer. Kane dry hops their triples at about 8 lb/bbl or 20 oz./5 gallons. People are using A LOT of hops. I had a Hoof Hearted last night that claimed to be hopped with 10 lb/bbl...not all DH but still lots of hops. Tasted great.

One of my favorite beers I’ve ever made had a DH of 8oz.Citra and 8oz. Strata.


I will say you run the risk of having a much harsher beer, and even one that just tastes like “hops” but you definitely can push the limit and still have good success.

Certainly Dry hopping with lower amounts can make incredibly hoppy delicious beer, which I have also done many times.
 
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aaronm13

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I tried my 2 week old CItra, Mosaic, Bru-1 again last night and to be honest I couldn't pick out a single unique hop flavor, now for a beer to have that much citra and not pick it out, something is up. Maybe I'm rushing things, maybe it just needs longer, I really don't know anymore.

I did that Even sharks recipe exactly as Verdant listed and in a side by side with the real thing it tasted totally underhopped. Now I know we wont get the same utilization of hops as a brewery like Verdant but mine was so muted flavor wise. This had Citra lupomax and T90 and 2020 Galaxy from Yakima. Now I did have an issue with the Galaxy as I posted here, it smelled of pure broccoli so maybe this accounted for the lack of flavor. I think I'm going to try a 10oz max dry hop and if I don't like it I can always add more to the keg.
 

kingmatt

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Poured a sample of my latest NEIPA the other day using Vic Secret, Lupomax Sabro and Galaxy.
1-21 NEIPA.jpg


Overall I am loving the aroma and the flavor is on point but it has a fair amount of the dreaded hop burn.

I feel like I get at least some hop burn whenever I use Galaxy in particular. It will fade out with some time but it is frustrating and has led me to avoid using Galaxy for awhile...guess I will go back to avoiding it.
 

Adam Zerwick

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Your dryhop uses 2-4 more oz than I use in my entire beer. Only my triples will I use a lb of hops in total. You’re dryhoping with what’s equivalent to 6.5 lbs/bbl of t90 pellets that are Homebrew quality. In my eyes that is a lot, I know a lot of breweries will claim this, but many of them have access to far better hops than us. They also use this number as marketing it’s not actually 7 lb/bbl of t90 pellets going in. OH for example counts their advanced hop product amounts in this figure. For example they will claim they dryhopped with “equivalent” of 7 lb/bbl and which in reality could be 3lb/bbl of cryo and 1lb/bbl. I’ve included a picture from their website so you know what I mean and this time they say 15lb/bbl


I know their are many ppl in the thread may do this. I’m not saying it’s wrong, but I would certainly implore you to try to reduce you hopping totals to about 2.5-3.0 oz/gallon in total and 1.2 - 2 oz/gallon. I’d also suggest cutting your dryhop to 1 or 2 addition (I still use 2). If you are following the best practices and process outlined in this thread for dryhoping and anti-o2, I think you will see much brighter and truer varietal specific character in your beers with a reduced hop amount
Wondering where your 2 dry hop additions fall within your typical fermentation schedule and how much time in between them. Are both post-ferm? Also wondering if you could share your rationale for having 2 dry hop additions.

Is the consensus here for whirlpool and dry hopping rates in terms of beer into the serving keg? i.e. 5 gallon keg, 3oz/gallon = 15 oz?
 

Dgallo

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Wondering where your 2 dry hop additions fall within your typical fermentation schedule and how much time in between them. Are both post-ferm? Also wondering if you could share your rationale for having 2 dry hop additions.

Is the consensus here for whirlpool and dry hopping rates in terms of beer into the serving keg? i.e. 5 gallon keg, 3oz/gallon = 15 oz?
I dryhop all post ferm and after crashing out as much yeast as possible. First goes in 4 or 3 days before final crash and the second goes 36-48 before final crash.
The rationale behind it is surface area contact. When I would put them all in at once for two days or more half the hops would be above the beer not making contact with in. By splitting it into 2 additions, the first addition will be in complete contact and then it will drop naturally or by lightly rocking before the second addition is added. Then that too will be in complete contact.

That said, recently with using cooler dryhop temps this hasn’t been a much a problem since the hops have been sinking faster but I’ve still done two additions. I will be doing one later this month that I will do just one large addition to see if there is truly any difference with the cooler temps

only worry about dryhop oz per gallon figures. For whirlpool I’ll just use about 4 oz

Dryhoping rates I base it off the 5.5 gallons I have in the fermenter when I am actually hopping
 
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ChiknNutz

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...only only worry about dryhop oz per gallon figures. For whirlpool I’ll just use about 4 oz

Dryhoping rates I base it off the 5.5 gallons I have in the fermenter when I am actually hopping
I am building a new (borderline double) NEIPA recipe and am so far planning for this hop schedule:

Magnum - 1 oz - FW
Warrior - 1 oz - FW (or just use all Magnum)
Combined these provide about 70 IBUs
Citra - 4 oz - Whirlpool (was first planning for 6 oz. until you mentioned the above)
Amarillo/Mosaic/Galaxy - 4/2/1 - Single Dryhop

What are your thoughts on this?
 

VirginiaHops1

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Poured a sample of my latest NEIPA the other day using Vic Secret, Lupomax Sabro and Galaxy. View attachment 715342

Overall I am loving the aroma and the flavor is on point but it has a fair amount of the dreaded hop burn.

I feel like I get at least some hop burn whenever I use Galaxy in particular. It will fade out with some time but it is frustrating and has led me to avoid using Galaxy for awhile...guess I will go back to avoiding it.
Galaxy can be tough to work with. I often get a decent amount of hop burn using it when I go really high in the dry hop. I've tasted plenty of commercial examples with significant hop burn as well so they struggle with it too, even the big boys. I got a drop from Other Half last summer and had their DDH Space Diamonds in it which was hop burn city and barely drinkable for me.
 

kingmatt

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Galaxy can be tough to work with. I often get a decent amount of hop burn using it when I go really high in the dry hop. I've tasted plenty of commercial examples with significant hop burn as well so they struggle with it too, even the big boys. I got a drop from Other Half last summer and had their DDH Space Diamonds in it which was hop burn city and barely drinkable for me.
I debated using it In this beer but I took all the precautions I could think of to avoid the burn and still couldn't shake it. I am planning on entering this beer into a competition next month so hopefully it mellows out before then.
 

JoeMamasIPA

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Funny the Galaxy monster is being brought up because I just tapped a DIPA with a 6oz 2020 Galaxy dryhop and I am underwhelmed to say the least. I dryhopped with Galaxy and a half oz of cryo Columbus and I get a cedar plank/anise taste that you sometimes get from CTZ. So in what is essentially a 6:1 dryhop I got no Galaxy taste. No hop burn but no taste either. FWIW the beer was decent before dryhopping and now I might have to break out some Citra for a rescue mission.
 

Dgallo

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I am building a new (borderline double) NEIPA recipe and am so far planning for this hop schedule:

Magnum - 1 oz - FW
Warrior - 1 oz - FW (or just use all Magnum)
Combined these provide about 70 IBUs
Citra - 4 oz - Whirlpool (was first planning for 6 oz. until you mentioned the above)
Amarillo/Mosaic/Galaxy - 4/2/1 - Single Dryhop

What are your thoughts on this?
For my personal preference I wouldnt target any more than 30 ibus from my 60 minute addition for a NEIPA. So probably .5-.75 oz at 60 would be my call and magnum.

If you have good Amarillo that could be a nice combo. I would add another oz of Galaxy and maybe drop the Amarillo by an oz. but again that’s just my preference
 

ChiknNutz

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For my personal preference I wouldnt target any more than 30 ibus from my 60 minute addition for a NEIPA. So probably .5-.75 oz at 60 would be my call and magnum.

If you have good Amarillo that could be a nice combo. I would add another oz of Galaxy and maybe drop the Amarillo by an oz. but again that’s just my preference
Thanks for the feedback. I based those dryhop amounts on your post earlier last year.

 
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