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American IPA "Northeast" style IPA

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Dgallo

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So for those who saw my post a month or so ago about my local brewery Fidens doing a collab with EQ. WELL, both breweries released it today! I picked up from Fidens today and I just ordered the eq release today. Very excited to try it.
9C6031CA-F3E0-4186-B0E9-A2D48AC3D751.jpeg
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Northern_Brewer

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I would like to read opinions on the widely available Conan strains from those on this thread with lots of experience.
Not much to add to the above - the White Labs one seems to have less character and floccs pretty badly, Yeast Bay is better, what little I've heard about the others seems to be in the "better" category. Homebrew versions of Conan do seem to vary quite a bit, presumably because each strain has come from a single colony isolated independently from a can, which is a pretty good environment for selecting cruddy yeast, particularly if it's a can of Heady Topper at 8% - in particular it's no surprise that they don't flocculate very well, as the good floccers don't make it into the can. It's not like some other strains which have come from a single colony in a lab (like 34/70).

As an aside, here's a good overview of how flocculation works by Graham Stewart, who used to be head of brewing at Heriot-Watt and so the de facto leader of British brewing academia.
 

Willum

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I just tried a soft crash to 50F and dry hop at 50F for the first time. I usually soft/cold crash and then warm up to 65F or so for dry hop. I love the beer, but I have heard people have mixed results with dry hopping below fermentation temps. As was stated a few posts back, some surmise that cold dry hopping can lead to unpleasant flavors if subpar hops are used for the colder dry hopping. I plan to keep doing the 50F crash and dry hop and see how it goes. The hops do largely sink to the bottom but they fluff up and absorb beer and the entire volume of beer after 2-3 days is very hazy. At warmer temps the hops always seem to kind of float in a big pillow on top of the beer (and in it to some extent of course.) Seems like the sinking is somewhat preferable as there is more contact area with the beer! This of course assumes you give the beer a few days at 50F to drop as much yeast as possible before dry hopping.

I think I will prefer the 50F crash and dry hop to raising it back up in temp if the flavor keeps pleasing me in the future. I have had hop creep after raising back up to fermentation temps and dry hopping even after a cold crash.
I have been doing the same thing lately. I crash to 50, dry hop for 2 days, cold crash to 33, then keg.

My most recent NEIPA is the best one yet (Citra/Sabro/Galaxy) and I have probably made 50 NEIPAs at this point.

Since I started hopping at 50, I no longer run into hop burn. Also my beers have more hop aroma.
 

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I’ve dry hopped at 50 a few times and really like the results as well. I tend to like my chest freezer a little bit warmer than some others, and keep it at 50. So it’s pretty easy for me to let fermentation complete and then just stick it right into the chest freezer to crash it down to 50. I can then transfer it into the dry hop keg and leave that in the chest freezer also at 50, and then transfer into the serving keg which goes into the chest freezer at 50 as well. It’s pretty convenient since I don’t have to worry too much about dropping and raising temps.

The owner of New Anthem, who puts out some incredible hazy IPAs, has stated that they dry hop at 50 and feels that it results in their beers being ready for consumption faster, and that they just seem to finish a little bit softer without some of the undesirable characteristics you may get at higher temperatures. He did an interview on a podcast and was asked if they needed to increase the hop load to make up for the lower temperature, and he said not at all. They haven’t noticed any difference in terms of needing to use more to get the same type of punch. The whole interview is a really good listen, but if you go to 48 minutes in you can hear him talk about dry hopping at 50. You’ll hear the interviewer ask him about dry hopping in the “50s” but a few minutes before he stated that they dry hop at specifically 50...not “in the 50s.”

 
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aaronm13

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That's very interesting about dry hopping at 50. I've been doing the soft crash to around 50 for a few months now then warming back up to around 60-62 for dry hopping. Seems a lot of temperature fluctuations to me so this is definitely worth a shot. Does the people who dry hop at this temperature find the hops just drop to the bottom? I usually double dry hop, first in the fermenter then second in a dry hopping keg. The keg can easily rouse the hops but don't want to be shaking the fermenter and raising up all the yeast again.

Slightly off topic as I've a Pliny clone just about finished and ready to start dry hopping but would dry hopping at 50 work for this style too or more appropriate to Neipas?
 
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I have been doing the same thing lately. I crash to 50, dry hop for 2 days, cold crash to 33, then keg.

My most recent NEIPA is the best one yet (Citra/Sabro/Galaxy) and I have probably made 50 NEIPAs at this point.

Since I started hopping at 50, I no longer run into hop burn. Also my beers have more hop aroma.
on my last neipa which i just kegged this past sunday i did almost the exact same thing and same hop combo, it is also my best one to date, thanks mainly to this thread! i have probably 30-40 neipas under my belt and feel like im getting real close to exactly what im looking for. with this dry hopping temp i had no hop burn even when i tasted it after only 36 hours in serving keg.
 

Willum

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on my last neipa which i just kegged this past sunday i did almost the exact same thing and same hop combo, it is also my best one to date, thanks mainly to this thread! i have probably 30-40 neipas under my belt and feel like im getting real close to exactly what im looking for. with this dry hopping temp i had no hop burn even when i tasted it after only 36 hours in serving keg.
I have been really enjoying Sabro, I have never used it until recently. I would get hop burn when I cold crashed to 50 then let it rise back up to 60+. I am going to stay with this method for all of my NEIPAs. It is great to keg an NEIPA, then be able to drink it as soon as it is force carbed.
 

Willum

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That's very interesting about dry hopping at 50. I've been doing the soft crash to around 50 for a few months now then warming back up to around 60-62 for dry hopping. Seems a lot of temperature fluctuations to me so this is definitely worth a shot. Does the people who dry hop at this temperature find the hops just drop to the bottom? I usually double dry hop, first in the fermenter then second in a dry hopping keg. The keg can easily rouse the hops but don't want to be shaking the fermenter and raising up all the yeast again.

Slightly off topic as I've a Pliny clone just about finished and ready to start dry hopping but would dry hopping at 50 work for this style too or more appropriate to Neipas?
I ferment in SS buckets. So, cannot see if they are floating. I let the hops warm to room temp before i dry hop. They are floating when I put the lid on. I see a sudden raise in gravity on my tilt then by day two it is sitting back the gravity it was before drying hopping. I would say at least some of them are floating enough to confuse the tilt (which is not hard to do).

On the pliny clone, I don't see why not. I mean I don't think hop creep is something i want in any of my beers. But, until today, the last time I brewed a west coast IPA was 2012. So don't take my advice.
 

Dgallo

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I do not believe it is necessary to go as cold as 50(some yeast may need the lower temp, @couchsending may have more info on yeast strains as I only typically run 2 or 3 in my NEIPA) If tried 50*f a few times but have landed at 58-60. I do not get hopburn at this temp with LAIII or a24 at a 2 oz/gallon dryhoping rate and I’ve enjoy the expression of the hops better than when I dryhoped at 50
 
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Willum

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I do not believe it is necessary to go as cold as 50. If tried 50*f a few times but have landed at 58-60. I do not get hopburn at this temp with LAIII or a24 at a 2 oz/gallon dryhoping rate and I’ve enjoy the expression of the hops better than when I dryhoped at 50
This might be blasphemy, but I stopped using LAIII and Conan for NEIPAs. I use American Ale 2 (1272). It seems to like to start fermenting again at ~60. So, I guess the result will vary based on yeast strain.
 

HopsAreGood

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I do not believe it is necessary to go as cold as 50. If tried 50*f a few times but have landed at 58-60. I do not get hopburn at this temp with LAIII or a24 at a 2 oz/gallon dryhoping rate and I’ve enjoy the expression of the hops better than when I dryhoped at 50
I think it comes down to personal preference. I’ve listened to tons of those podcasts and off the top of my head I can recall the following:

New Anthem: Dry hops at 50
Vitamin Sea: Dry hops at 55
Aslin: Dry hops at 60-63
Other Half: claimed room temp at the time of recording but may have since changed.
Monkish: Pretty sure Henry said 58-60
Trillium: JC has suggested 60
Triple Crossing: room temp

This is just off the top of my head...50 is definitely the low end but if it works for your equipment/setup and you like the results, keep doing it. I’m definitely going to.
 

Dgallo

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I think it comes down to personal preference. I’ve listened to tons of those podcasts and off the top of my head I can recall the following:

New Anthem: Dry hops at 50
Vitamin Sea: Dry hops at 55
Aslin: Dry hops at 60-63
Other Half: claimed room temp at the time of recording but may have since changed.
Monkish: Pretty sure Henry said 58-60
Trillium: JC has suggested 60
Triple Crossing: room temp

This is just off the top of my head...50 is definitely the low end but if it works for your equipment/setup and you like the results, keep doing it. I’m definitely going to.
I’ve updated my original post but you guys are too quick to include some strains could need to go lower.

To each their own. I’ve been developing my process for the past 4 years and am pretty set in stone now but I’ll try some new stuff from time to time. Vic secret is the only hop I’ve dryhoped colder than 58 with better result
 
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Dgallo

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This might be blasphemy, but I stopped using LAIII and Conan for NEIPAs. I use American Ale 2 (1272). It seems to like to start fermenting again at ~60. So, I guess the result will vary based on yeast strain.
I use 1272 for my black ipa. I like it. It’s been a while since I tried it in a NEIPA but if I recall the fruit esters from are quite low and easily got hidden in my NEIPAS.
 

Willum

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I use 1272 for my black ipa. I like it. It’s been a while since I tried it in a NEIPA but if I recall the fruit esters from are quite low and easily got hidden in my NEIPAS.
I think this boils down to a personal preference. I have two hazy's that are my goto Kane Party Wave and Brewdog Hazy Jane. Brewdog puts in the DIY spreadsheet that they use 1056 and I am pretty sure Kane uses some chico strain or similar for all of their IPAs. I used LAIII and Conan and never loved any of the beers I made. So I went to 1056, I liked what i made but wanted a little bit of what conan gave me as far as esters. I tried 1272 and I decided this is what i am looking for.
 

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I did an exact side by side brew using 1272 vs 1318 as the variable. No one could tell the beers apart. Only 1 test but...

the only reason i tried 50F for dry hopping was due to the interview with New Anthem on the podcast referenced above. That dude was full of good info. I listened to the Bissell Bros interview on the same podcast and was disappointed. He sounded like a very cool guy but his mind seems very busy. It was hard to keep him on topic and get usable info lol

check out the Finback interview. He was fascinating too, especially the stuff on his pastry stouts
 

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I did an exact side by side brew using 1272 vs 1318 as the variable. No one could tell the beers apart. Only 1 test but...

the only reason i tried 50F for dry hopping was due to the interview with New Anthem on the podcast referenced above. That dude was full of good info. I listened to the Bissell Bros interview on the same podcast and was disappointed. He sounded like a very cool guy but his mind seems very busy. It was hard to keep him on topic and get usable info lol

check out the Finback interview. He was fascinating too, especially the stuff on his pastry stouts
What is the blowoff like on 1272?
On the tree its related to wlp002 and vermont, so I guess not as much blowoff as 1318
 

Willum

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What is the blowoff like on 1272?
On the tree its related to wlp002 and vermont, so I guess not as much blowoff as 1318
I leave about 1/2 gallon of headroom and 1318 blows off every time. 1272 seems to stop about half way up and has never come out the blow off tube for me.
 

Willum

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I did an exact side by side brew using 1272 vs 1318 as the variable. No one could tell the beers apart. Only 1 test but...

the only reason i tried 50F for dry hopping was due to the interview with New Anthem on the podcast referenced above. That dude was full of good info. I listened to the Bissell Bros interview on the same podcast and was disappointed. He sounded like a very cool guy but his mind seems very busy. It was hard to keep him on topic and get usable info lol

check out the Finback interview. He was fascinating too, especially the stuff on his pastry stouts
Interesting. I never made and exact side by side because by the time I tried 1272, i had already moved to 1056 so, I was able to test similar hazy beers side by side by 1272 vs 1056. I could tell the difference, but the beers had different hops.

I did do an exact side by side of single hopped mosaic beer with Verdant and US-05. I liked the Verdant beer better, but neither blew me away. I also learned during that experiment that I do not like Mosaic all that much, at least when it is the only hop in the beer.
 

Ogilthorpe2

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Interesting. I never made and exact side by side because by the time I tried 1272, i had already moved to 1056 so, I was able to test similar hazy beers side by side by 1272 vs 1056. I could tell the difference, but the beers had different hops.

I did do an exact side by side of single hopped mosaic beer with Verdant and US-05. I liked the Verdant beer better, but neither blew me away. I also learned during that experiment that I do not like Mosaic all that much, at least when it is the only hop in the beer.
Agreed.
 

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So for those who saw my post a month or so ago about my local brewery Fidens doing a collab with EQ. WELL, both breweries released it today! I picked up from Fidens today and I just ordered the eq release today. Very excited to try it. View attachment 709688View attachment 709689
Its getting great ratings on untappd. I live close to Eq, and just found out about Fidens over the summer, but have only had a few beers from them so far. Do you know if they plan on canning (16oz)soon ? I pass by Albany weekly in the spring/summer, would be cool to pick up 4 packs
 

aaronm13

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So for those who saw my post a month or so ago about my local brewery Fidens doing a collab with EQ. WELL, both breweries released it today! I picked up from Fidens today and I just ordered the eq release today. Very excited to try it. View attachment 709688View attachment 709689
So jealous of those prices. I'm paying the equivalent of around $15 per can for their DIPAs. Worth it though as they're so good.
 

Dgallo

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Its getting great ratings on untappd. I live close to Eq, and just found out about Fidens over the summer, but have only had a few beers from them so far. Do you know if they plan on canning (16oz)soon ? I pass by Albany weekly in the spring/summer, would be cool to pick up 4 packs
So we have a company in the area called Iron Hart and it’s a mobile canning service so it’s always a possibility. My guess is yes, because they literally had to fill crowlers while the rush was on the other night. So fiden’s release blew out in 6 hours. 7bbl of beer, 884 - 32oz crowlers at 4 pp for 3 hours and 2 pp for the remaining time. Totally nuts.
 
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HopsAreGood

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So we have a company in the area called Iron Hart and it’s a mobile canning service so it’s always a possibility. My guess is yes, because they literally had to fill crowlers while the rush was on the other night. So fiden’s release blew out in 6 hours. 7bbl of beer, 884 - 32oz crowlers at 4 pp for 3 hours and 2 pp for the remaining time. Totally nuts.
What do they charge per crowler? I have breweries near me charging $15 each which equates to $30/4-pack. People wonder why they don’t “can” and the first thing that comes to mind is profit margins. For some reason people will happily throw $15 per 32 oz at the brewery, but once they put it in a 4 pack they scoff at anything over $20-$22 for 64 ounces. Crazy.
 
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Dgallo

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What do they charge per crowler? I have breweries near me charging $15 each which equates to $30/4-pack. People wonder why they don’t “can” and the first thing that comes to mind is profit margins. For some reason people will happily throw $15 per 32 oz at the brewery, but once they put it in a 4 pack they scoff at anything over $20-$22 for 64 ounces. Crazy.
$12-15 depending on styles. Most are $13 though. Only the triple was $15
 

secretlevel

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Its getting great ratings on untappd. I live close to Eq, and just found out about Fidens over the summer, but have only had a few beers from them so far. Do you know if they plan on canning (16oz)soon ? I pass by Albany weekly in the spring/summer, would be cool to pick up 4 packs
I keep hearing about the national aluminum shortage, I'm assuming this is due to almost all of the breweries depending on crowler/can sales these days. Nonetheless, local lager brewer just introduced cans so there's still hope of small breweries adapting canning.
 

ihavenonickname

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Anyone using a hop spider for the kettle hops for these beers? I’ve always let em ride free but have had a pump clog a few times now. I’d like to fit 6-8 oz in a spider for a hopstand without ill effect.
 

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Big fan of the Yeast Bay strain. Seems to be more reliable and flocc better.

Imperial or Omega are also good options.

I’ve heard of some professionals doing a 70/30 blend of Conan and LA3.
I've really enjoyed the Yeast Bay strain the few times I've had it commercially. Unfortunately, it seems to always be out of stock.
I've been considering a blend of Omega's Conan strain & WY1318 for an upcoming brew just to experiment. Any thoughts on why/how your pro friends arrived at that particular ratio? I've only blended once before, using the early info from the Tree House yeast thread.
 

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I put my kettle hops in a 1 gallon paint strainer bag. Tie a string around the top and hange it from a kettle handle. Tie it fairly loose so it can be opened to make later hop additions. With the string being wet a simple clove hitch knot will hold without being pulled very tight. The one gallon bag seems big and loose enough to me that there is plenty of hop contact with the wort. Maybe try a 5 gallon paint strainer bag for larger capacity kettles.
 

MMP126

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Hey guys, back again!

I brewed another NEIPA, while trying out some new techniques and using recommendations from you guys. Recipe and process below:

Batch Size (To Packaging) (gal):5.2
Target OG:1.073
Target FG:1.016
Target IBUs40
Boil Time:45
Target SRM#:6
Mash Temp (F):153
Mash Time (min)60
Yeast:Wyeast 1318 - London Ale III


Grain NameOriginal Amount (lb)Percentage
2-Row Brewer's Malt, Briess16.577.65%
Flaked Oats1.57.06%
White Wheat Malt, Briess1.57.06%
Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L14.71%
Carapils, Briess0.753.53%


Hop NameOriginal Amount (oz)Addition Time
Citra (2019)130
Citra (2019)110
Citra (2019)6WP
Citra (2020)2DH1
Citra (2020)6DH2

Cold side, primary lasted for 12 days, with dry hopping on day 2, and day 10. I didnt drop the temp at all for the dry hoppings, left it at 68F. Then I cold crashed to 38F, let it go for 3.5 days, then kegged.

I have to say, this is the best NEIPA that I have brewed. It is clean, absolutely 0 hop burn, smells amazing, and best of all, TASTES amazing. Fruity and a bit of pine, citrus like crazy, sweet fruit, a small pop of bitterness. Mouthfeel is great, the head retains well, and is nice and dense. Its lovely.

I really wish I had a better camera... (Still rocking an iPhone 7 over here...)

NEIPA10.jpg
NEIPA10_2.jpg


What this batch taught me:

1. Cold crash yo stuff, for probably longer than you think... I really believe this played a big part in the final product. In the past, I would crash for 24-36 hours, and it produced some harsh beer. I think getting all the trub, yeast, hop particles, and foreign matter out of the beer really helps reduce the hop burn, and non-desirable flavors. Usually, I get a hop burn for about 5-7 days (but, my last beer it never went away), and then I can drink it. This beer was ready to go as soon as it hit the keg. I was drinking half carbed glasses of it because it was so delicious.

2. Hop combos matter... I decided to back step a bit, and just do 1 hop on this beer. Citra is a classic, amazing hop, and it really showed in this beer. It worked great. I think hop combos are fun, but I think you can fall into traps when you are starting out. I think that I was going a bit wild, and too random and willy-nilly, and it lead me to some trouble. I am not a hop wizard, and I dont know what works where yet. I think if you are starting out, 1 or 2 hops is all you need to fool around with, and it will make a great beer.

3. I dont really think a soft crash is necessary...the 2 best NEIPAs I have ever made (this one, and one about 5 batches ago (which may have been a fluke)) did not have a soft crash. I am not convinced that an intermediary crash results in better beer. I have done it twice, and both results were lack luster. It may help, but I think the final crash is what is really important.

Again, I thank you all for your help, input, honesty and transparency. I hope that the above may help you or some others out with your beers!
 

Dgallo

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Batch Size (To Packaging) (gal):5.2
Target OG:1.073
Target FG:1.016
Target IBUs40
Boil Time:45
Target SRM#:6
Mash Temp (F):153
Mash Time (min)60
Yeast:Wyeast 1318 - London Ale III


Grain NameOriginal Amount (lb)Percentage
2-Row Brewer's Malt, Briess16.577.65%
Flaked Oats1.57.06%
White Wheat Malt, Briess1.57.06%
Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L14.71%
Carapils, Briess0.753.53%

***ignore this post, I went to reply and it quoted this but won’t let me delete the tables***
 

Dgallo

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@MMP126
Looks great man!! Glad it came out really good for you!!

how long did you cold crash?
 

Northern_Brewer

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Anyone try Imperials pitch of Bell's strain with this style?
We now know that the Bell's strain is a member of the original BRY-96/97 branch of the Chico family, so it shouldn't be wildly different from BRY-97 or other Chicos, but don't let me stop you from trying it...
 

Dgallo

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We now know that the Bell's strain is a member of the original BRY-96/97 branch of the Chico family, so it shouldn't be wildly different from BRY-97 or other Chicos, but don't let me stop you from trying it...
I’ve used multiple Chico strains in different hop forward styles over the years and bry-97 is my least favorite. It always accentuates the bitterness as being harsh
 
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beervoid

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Hey man!

I cold crashed for like 3.5 days.
I wonder if it really matters, if you keg once you crash and transfer these particles will anyway drop out. Unless carbonation plays a role here?
Does carbonation effect the buoyancy of a liquid?
 

MMP126

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I wonder if it really matters, if you keg once you crash and transfer these particles will anyway drop out. Unless carbonation plays a role here?
Does carbonation effect the buoyancy of a liquid?
The reason I went so long on this beer, was due to the fact that my last few NEIPAs had a pretty significant hop burn the entire time it was in the keg. My latest, which was in the keg for 6 weeks, burned all the way to the last pour...and I really hated this because it REALLY took away from the flavor of the beer. The beer smelled amazing, but the burn was a real turn off when you drank it.

I had been crashing for 24-36 hours, and it always led to hop burn, that never really, fully went away. Some beers were worse than others. So, this one, I went for a longer duration. It was like 3.5 days. The beer came out of the fermentor with zero hop burn.

Playing devil's advocate here, I cannot fully say that the longer cold crash was 100% responsible for the removal of hop burn, but I can certainly say that it helped, and the extended time didn't hurt the beer at all.

I think other things can certainly play a role. Hop selection plays a roll. I think grain bill can have an affect. Hop contact time can affect it. I am still figuring it all out, so I am definitely not an expert on the style.

As far as carbonation, I let the hop burny NEIPA sit in a keg, not hooked up to gas, for a week. I would add a little blast of CO2 once a day, to try to push some of the drop out, out of the bottom of the keg. I did see some coming out at first, but about 3-4 days, and there wasn't much coming out. So, not sure if that affects anything or not.
 

JoeMamasIPA

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The reason I went so long on this beer, was due to the fact that my last few NEIPAs had a pretty significant hop burn the entire time it was in the keg. My latest, which was in the keg for 6 weeks, burned all the way to the last pour...and I really hated this because it REALLY took away from the flavor of the beer. The beer smelled amazing, but the burn was a real turn off when you drank it.

I had been crashing for 24-36 hours, and it always led to hop burn, that never really, fully went away. Some beers were worse than others. So, this one, I went for a longer duration. It was like 3.5 days. The beer came out of the fermentor with zero hop burn.

Playing devil's advocate here, I cannot fully say that the longer cold crash was 100% responsible for the removal of hop burn, but I can certainly say that it helped, and the extended time didn't hurt the beer at all.

I think other things can certainly play a role. Hop selection plays a roll. I think grain bill can have an affect. Hop contact time can affect it. I am still figuring it all out, so I am definitely not an expert on the style.

As far as carbonation, I let the hop burny NEIPA sit in a keg, not hooked up to gas, for a week. I would add a little blast of CO2 once a day, to try to push some of the drop out, out of the bottom of the keg. I did see some coming out at first, but about 3-4 days, and there wasn't much coming out. So, not sure if that affects anything or not.
Are you drawing beer from the top (CBDS) or bottom of the serving keg? I assuming the bottom. I am looking to go back to drawing from the bottom with a screen over the diptube because I feel like the flavor settles to the bottom over time especially when the soft crash before transferring to the serving keg is weak. The other option I am exploring is putting a long dip tube on the gas in post to allow for CO2 rousing to resuspend hop oils that may have settled out. This option would also allow for drawing from the top or bottom of the keg depending on the state of the beer conditioning. Having said all of that, I think you hit the nail on the head with a good crash keeping most settling material out of the serving keg in the first place.
 

Beerdrinker85

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The only time I had hop burn was:
-Using Galaxy too much
-Early biotransformation
-no cold crash at all

I am now doing the first dry hop when the beer is at FG and the second DH 2 days after for a total contact time of 5 days in the fermenter. 0 hop burn since.
 
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