New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

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brew703

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I'm Kinda confused with the below. Are you adding the below during the mash and sparge? For ex, .9 grams gypsum added during mash and another .9 added during the sparge?
If one is brewing BIAB, would you add .18 during the mash or stick with .9?


WATER PROFILE:
There are multiple directions to go here. Currently, I am partial to the following water addtions - 100% RO water. I add per gallon of mash and sparge water -
Gypsum = .9 grams/gallon
CaCl = .4 grams/gallon
Epsom = .1 gram/gallon
Canning Salt = .05 grams/gallon
 

cheesebach

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I just bought this autosiphon filter. It has worked very well so far:

http://arborfab.com/Auto-Siphon-Filter_p_57.html

I have the narrower diameter auto siphon. I used to have a wider one that might not fit, but the narrower one fits fine. Snug but it fits.
Have you ever tried using this to transfer beer out of the brew kettle to the fermenter with this? Figuring out a good way to keep hop material out of the fermenter without sacrificing a lot of wort has been something I’ve struggled with every time I brew this style. Trying to avoid going the hop spider route, since I question the utilization/extraction one gets, especially during the steep when there isn’t constant agitation from the boil.
 

stickyfinger

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Have you ever tried using this to transfer beer out of the brew kettle to the fermenter with this? Figuring out a good way to keep hop material out of the fermenter without sacrificing a lot of wort has been something I’ve struggled with every time I brew this style. Trying to avoid going the hop spider route, since I question the utilization/extraction one gets, especially during the steep when there isn’t constant agitation from the boil.
i doubt it would work. it would clog. The key to filtration is either surface area or pressure. use a large strainer or push with the pump through an inline filter.

really, the lost wort is pretty cheap if you buy in bulk, a few dollars per batch? why worry. just make an extra 0.5-1 G of wort per batch
 

milldoggy

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Have you ever tried using this to transfer beer out of the brew kettle to the fermenter with this? Figuring out a good way to keep hop material out of the fermenter without sacrificing a lot of wort has been something I’ve struggled with every time I brew this style. Trying to avoid going the hop spider route, since I question the utilization/extraction one gets, especially during the steep when there isn’t constant agitation from the boil.
Hop taco! I get every last drop
 

cheesebach

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i doubt it would work. it would clog. The key to filtration is either surface area or pressure. use a large strainer or push with the pump through an inline filter.

really, the lost wort is pretty cheap if you buy in bulk, a few dollars per batch? why worry. just make an extra 0.5-1 G of wort per batch
With this style, I feel like the minimum amount of trub/wort I leave behind when doing a straight transfer to fermenter with an auto-siphon is around 2G-2.5G from a 6.5G post boil volume. I'm getting a lot of hop material transferring by the time I get down to 2G remaining. If I want 6G in the fermenter, I’d have to go up to 8G post-boil batch size doing this, which pushes the limits volume-wise on my 10 G kettle. Not to mention the 30% increase in hops (this is the bigger cost) and grain going this route.

To get around this, I’ve tried filtering through a wide strainer fitting over a giant 15” funnel or through a paint strainer bag on the output of the transfer hose. Both of these clog, but with the strainer bag I can generally get all but a gallon or so. But this is messy and time consuming.

In my head, what I think might work well is something like a giant French-press for my kettle (if someone like Arbor Fab could make one). Then I could use pressure to push all the hops down past a certain level and transfer only the clear wort over.

Hop taco! I get every last drop
Is this real? How does it work?
 

kevink

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really, the lost wort is pretty cheap if you buy in bulk, a few dollars per batch? why worry. just make an extra 0.5-1 G of wort per batch
Exactly. My pre boil is 18.5 gallons, I get 13.7 gallons in the fermenter, 10 gallons in the kegs, and I don't give a ****. Just account for the loss and adjust.
 

Tarpon87

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I'm Kinda confused with the below. Are you adding the below during the mash and sparge? For ex, .9 grams gypsum added during mash and another .9 added during the sparge?
If one is brewing BIAB, would you add .18 during the mash or stick with .9?


WATER PROFILE:
There are multiple directions to go here. Currently, I am partial to the following water addtions - 100% RO water. I add per gallon of mash and sparge water -
Gypsum = .9 grams/gallon
CaCl = .4 grams/gallon
Epsom = .1 gram/gallon
Canning Salt = .05 grams/gallon

Those figures are all per gallon, so:

In the case of BIAB, which is what I do, assuming you are full volume mashing
9 gal total water volume
Gypsum = .9 grams x9 = 8.1g
CaCl = .4 grams x9 = 3.6g
Epsom = .1 gram x9 = .9g
Canning Salt = .05 grams x9 = .45g

I don't use a sparge, but I believe it would still work the same. However many gallons you mash in with, multiply by the grams per gallon, add it to the mash water. Then however much you sparge with, multiple by the grams per gallon, add that to the sparge water.
 

brew703

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Those figures are all per gallon, so:

In the case of BIAB, which is what I do, assuming you are full volume mashing
9 gal total water volume
Gypsum = .9 grams x9 = 8.1g
CaCl = .4 grams x9 = 3.6g
Epsom = .1 gram x9 = .9g
Canning Salt = .05 grams x9 = .45g

I don't use a sparge, but I believe it would still work the same. However many gallons you mash in with, multiply by the grams per gallon, add it to the mash water. Then however much you sparge with, multiple by the grams per gallon, add that to the sparge water.
Full Volume mash, no sparge.
I was curious as I've noticed that info before (added x amt during mash and x amt during sparge) and didn't really know how that would work with BIAB.
When using Bru N Water to get the amts, I add all in to the strike water while heating. It's worked good so far but wanted to push the envelope a little but have been hesitant not wanting to ruin a batch of beer.

I'll be brewing the NEIPA in a month or two and will go with the numbers provided here and see how that turns out.

Thanks for the info.
 

MMP126

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Hey all,

Quick questions about water chemistry for these beers (Sorry if this has been covered, if so, please point me to the post).

In one post I saw Braufessor talked about playing with the Sulfate:Chloride ratios to achieve different flavor profiles/mouthfeels for this type of beer. My question is, what types of flavors/feels does each type of adjustment lead to? What happens to hop/grain flavors and mouthfeel when you have a 1:1 ratio? 2:1 ratio? 1:2 ratio?

I am curious. Let me know what you all have found!
 

milldoggy

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With this style, I feel like the minimum amount of trub/wort I leave behind when doing a straight transfer to fermenter with an auto-siphon is around 2G-2.5G from a 6.5G post boil volume. I'm getting a lot of hop material transferring by the time I get down to 2G remaining. If I want 6G in the fermenter, I’d have to go up to 8G post-boil batch size doing this, which pushes the limits volume-wise on my 10 G kettle. Not to mention the 30% increase in hops (this is the bigger cost) and grain going this route.

To get around this, I’ve tried filtering through a wide strainer fitting over a giant 15” funnel or through a paint strainer bag on the output of the transfer hose. Both of these clog, but with the strainer bag I can generally get all but a gallon or so. But this is messy and time consuming.

In my head, what I think might work well is something like a giant French-press for my kettle (if someone like Arbor Fab could make one). Then I could use pressure to push all the hops down past a certain level and transfer only the clear wort over.



Is this real? How does it work?
IMG_20170210_125612078.jpg


This is a 28x28 mesh around my dip tube(around 600 micron). I have use 12 ozs in the boil. You need a pump and slow flow near the end. I typically use this with a hop spider, but not always. Arbor fab just made me a 500 micron 10.5x 15.5 spider to replace my homemade 600 micron 8" one, can't wait to try it.
 

LakesideBrewing

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Hey all,

Great thread! I brewed a NEIPA real close to this one yesterday. But I missed my target OG by a bit. Was aiming for 1.062, ended up with 1.056. I usually crush my own grains but I ordered online and the grains were pre crushed when I got them. I should have crushed them again, but I didn't. Oh well. My question is, should I hold back a little on the dry hops? I was planning on using 6oz.

Thanks,
Mike
 

stickyfinger

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Hey all,

Great thread! I brewed a NEIPA real close to this one yesterday. But I missed my target OG by a bit. Was aiming for 1.062, ended up with 1.056. I usually crush my own grains but I ordered online and the grains were pre crushed when I got them. I should have crushed them again, but I didn't. Oh well. My question is, should I hold back a little on the dry hops? I was planning on using 6oz.

Thanks,
Mike
6 oz will be fine.
 

aaronm13

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Kegged last night and for my first time didn't go to plan but I'll learn from my mistakes. Set the Co2 to 30psi and just checked this evening and it was over carbed. Stupid question but when calculating Co2 levels does volume of beer come into play. This was only a 2.5 gallon batch as I wanted to make sure my process was 100% before doing a 5 gallon batch ( getting used to new equipment too). 30 psi is perfect for 5 gallon so should I had done 15 psi? Either way tastes great and think it looks good too.


Edit after a few minutes carbonation doesn't look great, wonder is my pouring technique with the picnic tap wrong.
 

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stickyfinger

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Kegged last night and for my first time didn't go to plan but I'll learn from my mistakes. Set the Co2 to 30psi and just checked this evening and it was over carbed. Stupid question but when calculating Co2 levels does volume of beer come into play. This was only a 2.5 gallon batch as I wanted to make sure my process was 100% before doing a 5 gallon batch ( getting used to new equipment too). 30 psi is perfect for 5 gallon so should I had done 15 psi? Either way tastes great and think it looks good too.


Edit after a few minutes carbonation doesn't look great, wonder is my pouring technique with the picnic tap wrong.
The volume of beer definitely makes a difference, as does the surface area in contact with the solution. You can do 2.5 gal at 30-35psi for 12-18 hrs and get good carbonation.
 

cheesebach

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View attachment 547933

This is a 28x28 mesh around my dip tube(around 600 micron). I have use 12 ozs in the boil. You need a pump and slow flow near the end. I typically use this with a hop spider, but not always. Arbor fab just made me a 500 micron 10.5x 15.5 spider to replace my homemade 600 micron 8" one, can't wait to try it.
Thanks for the picture - what's the reason behind the need for both the dip tube screen and the hop spider? I'm considering building or purchasing an electric system with a pump at some point in the next year, but currently, I have just a simple BIAB setup. That's part of my concern with using a hop spider with a large quantity of post-boil hops - I don't think the hops would see much contact with the wort outside of the spider. The dip-tube screen is also out for my current setup, since I don't have the pump (or a dip tube). For this type of simple setup, I still think something like a hop-press (french press for a brew kettle) would work great. Maybe time to give a arbor fab a call and see if they have some ideas for me...
 

aaronm13

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The volume of beer definitely makes a difference, as does the surface area in contact with the solution. You can do 2.5 gal at 30-35psi for 12-18 hrs and get good carbonation.
Had it on 30psi for 24 hours. I've turned it down now. The picnic tap seems tricky to master.
 

stickyfinger

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Thanks for the picture - what's the reason behind the need for both the dip tube screen and the hop spider? I'm considering building or purchasing an electric system with a pump at some point in the next year, but currently, I have just a simple BIAB setup. That's part of my concern with using a hop spider with a large quantity of post-boil hops - I don't think the hops would see much contact with the wort outside of the spider. The dip-tube screen is also out for my current setup, since I don't have the pump (or a dip tube). For this type of simple setup, I still think something like a hop-press (french press for a brew kettle) would work great. Maybe time to give a arbor fab a call and see if they have some ideas for me...
I also have a Kal-clone electric HERMS. I decided to put on a whirlpool return arm. I whirlpool for at least 15 mins usually before draining. Doing that, you can keep most of the crap in the kettle and only waste like 1-1.5G of wort (using a 20G kettle.) That is assuming 16 oz of hops in a batch.
 

TimmyWit

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Thanks for the picture - what's the reason behind the need for both the dip tube screen and the hop spider? I'm considering building or purchasing an electric system with a pump at some point in the next year, but currently, I have just a simple BIAB setup. That's part of my concern with using a hop spider with a large quantity of post-boil hops - I don't think the hops would see much contact with the wort outside of the spider. The dip-tube screen is also out for my current setup, since I don't have the pump (or a dip tube). For this type of simple setup, I still think something like a hop-press (french press for a brew kettle) would work great. Maybe time to give a arbor fab a call and see if they have some ideas for me...
I wasn't happy with my results from a hop spider. I am pretty happy with my current setup though. I use the trub dam from SS Brewtech - whirlpool, trub rest, then use gravity to fill the carboy instead of the pump as to not disturb the cone. This is from a 15 gallon batch with 31oz hops in there.
IMG_4949.jpg
 

cheesebach

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It sounds like not having a system with a pump is what's making my life difficult. I'll need to bring this supporting data with me to the next meeting with our household expenses review board :)

I also have a Kal-clone electric HERMS. I decided to put on a whirlpool return arm. I whirlpool for at least 15 mins usually before draining. Doing that, you can keep most of the crap in the kettle and only waste like 1-1.5G of wort (using a 20G kettle.) That is assuming 16 oz of hops in a batch.
Do you have any sort of screen for the dip tube on your kettle? Have you had any issues with clogging in your pump when whirlpooling with this quantity of hops? I had a discussion with the owner of the Brau Supply earlier this year regarding the need for a hop spider in hop-forward beers with their Unibrau system, and he told me that I'd likely clog the pump in that system if I were to run the pump with the loose hop pellets in there. Was he maybe just trying to sell me on getting the hop spider as an add-on, or is this a valid concern?
 

fragged

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Had it on 30psi for 24 hours. I've turned it down now. The picnic tap seems tricky to master.
I'd say the volume isn't the issue so much with your smaller than normal batch as the time is. Takes less time to 1) Cool the beer and 2) Get the co2 into solution at the CO2 volume your looking for versus 5 gallons going into solution; 2 could also be said as: you need less CO2 to mix with the beer, which will happen faster based simply on less volume needing to bond with the beer to form carbonic acid.

I'd guess more 1 than 2. If you are usually filling your kegs to the brim with 5 gallons, surface area would also come into play.
Had it on 30psi for 24 hours. I've turned it down now. The picnic tap seems tricky to master.
 

milldoggy

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Thanks for the picture - what's the reason behind the need for both the dip tube screen and the hop spider? .
Why not. If I am under 10oz, I will just add free range, no spider. With more, I typically use the spider. I sometimes use the spider to just remove hot break. It clogs the screen, so with 10 min left in the boil, will remove, rinse and out back in for whirlpool hops. With my neelw 10.5 spider, no concern about wort touching hops. I also swirl and run my pump during steeping.
 

stickyfinger

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It sounds like not having a system with a pump is what's making my life difficult. I'll need to bring this supporting data with me to the next meeting with our household expenses review board :)
Do you have any sort of screen for the dip tube on your kettle? Have you had any issues with clogging in your pump when whirlpooling with this quantity of hops? I had a discussion with the owner of the Brau Supply earlier this year regarding the need for a hop spider in hop-forward beers with their Unibrau system, and he told me that I'd likely clog the pump in that system if I were to run the pump with the loose hop pellets in there. Was he maybe just trying to sell me on getting the hop spider as an add-on, or is this a valid concern?
I use no screen. 1/2" tubing and fittings throughout. I have clogged my counterflow chiller before. This happened when I added a ton of pellet hops after shutting off the heat and then started up my pump full blast. It's happened I think once or maybe twice. The solution was to get the pump flowing first and then sprinkle in the pellets. Another solution would be to put in the pellets and stir for a minute or so and then turn on the pump. The system can handle pellets once they are broken down to "powder" in the wort. Screens are more likely to clog than not using one. Now, I've never used more than about 19 oz in a 20G kettle. I still think it could handle more though.
 

jakturner

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Do you guys think it's super important to leave the hop material behind? When I whirlpool I stir it up every 10 mins for 30 mins, after the last ten minutes a dump the kettle into FV trying to leave behind what settled to the bottom. Quite a bit of hops gets transferred over. I don't feel like it has a negative effect on the beer but who knows maybe I should try filtering it out somehow and see if it makes a difference?
 

stickyfinger

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Do you guys think it's super important to leave the hop material behind? When I whirlpool I stir it up every 10 mins for 30 mins, after the last ten minutes a dump the kettle into FV trying to leave behind what settled to the bottom. Quite a bit of hops gets transferred over. I don't feel like it has a negative effect on the beer but who knows maybe I should try filtering it out somehow and see if it makes a difference?
i love my beers that have a ton of hops and trub in primary. i don’t think it matters. to me it’s more about having enough wort to fill a keg after primary and dryhopping
 

pearljam1984

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Do you guys think it's super important to leave the hop material behind? When I whirlpool I stir it up every 10 mins for 30 mins, after the last ten minutes a dump the kettle into FV trying to leave behind what settled to the bottom. Quite a bit of hops gets transferred over. I don't feel like it has a negative effect on the beer but who knows maybe I should try filtering it out somehow and see if it makes a difference?
I have never worried about the amount of trub making it in. Haven’t felt it adds anything negative or positive.

Brulosophy did an experiment over trub/no trub and the results came out negligible that anyone could tell a difference in blind taste tests.
 
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Do you guys think it's super important to leave the hop material behind? When I whirlpool I stir it up every 10 mins for 30 mins, after the last ten minutes a dump the kettle into FV trying to leave behind what settled to the bottom. Quite a bit of hops gets transferred over. I don't feel like it has a negative effect on the beer but who knows maybe I should try filtering it out somehow and see if it makes a difference?
Flavorwise, I don't think it matters. Where it can matter a bit more is depending on your own set up, and the fact that you are adding even more dry hops later, it might just increase the amount of debris that could give you problems at transfer time.
Other than that (or making beers I use to propagate yeast) I am not overly concerned with extra break/hop material making its way into fermenter. I have not noticed any flavor impact.
 

MMP126

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Wanted to ask again...

Hey all,

Quick questions about water chemistry for these beers (Sorry if this has been covered, if so, please point me to the post).

In one post I saw Braufessor talked about playing with the Sulfate:Chloride ratios to achieve different flavor profiles/mouthfeels for this type of beer. My question is, what types of flavors/feels does each type of adjustment lead to? What happens to hop/grain flavors and mouthfeel when you have a 1:1 ratio? 2:1 ratio? 1:2 ratio?

I am curious. Let me know what you all have found!
 

plazola86

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Question to all those questioning the utilization of bagged hops. I bag my kettle hops since i have a plate chiller and don't want to worry about clogging it but at the end of my steeping time I pull the bag out and squeeze all the hop juice goodness out of it. Does everyone else do this? If you don't I think your missing out in A LOT of hoppy goodness. Doing this i think i get the best of both worlds: Straight hop juice and zero hop mess. I just empty the hop bag out in the sink after I'm done squeezing it.
 

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maybe I'm alone on this one but I felt like when I added a trub rest, my IPA's improved considerably. I'm not using any sort of filter in the boil so maybe that's a factor.

When I brewed with propane, I had a false bottom and I would go directly from whirlpool to fermenter and I didn't have any problems. I switched to electric a few years ago and brought my techniques along with me. I made a few IPA's that I was not happy with. The flavors I was getting would probably best be described as grassy and muddy. It was frustrating the heck out of me especially since I previously made good IPA's. Finally, it dawned on me that the difference with this setup is that I have nothing catching any trub. I started doing a trub rest and since that batch, I haven't looked back and I have been happy with my IPA's. Maybe the root of my problem was that some of it was ending up in the keg like Braufessor mentioned. Either way, I'd like to skip it since it would carve time off my brew day but at this point, I'm too convinced that it is helping me on my current setup.

At the end of the day, if you're not doing a trub rest and you're happy with the final product, that is all that really matters. :mug:
 

TimmyWit

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Wanted to ask again...

Hey all,

Quick questions about water chemistry for these beers (Sorry if this has been covered, if so, please point me to the post).

In one post I saw Braufessor talked about playing with the Sulfate:Chloride ratios to achieve different flavor profiles/mouthfeels for this type of beer. My question is, what types of flavors/feels does each type of adjustment lead to? What happens to hop/grain flavors and mouthfeel when you have a 1:1 ratio? 2:1 ratio? 1:2 ratio?

I am curious. Let me know what you all have found!
In general, sulfate accentuates hops or perceived bitterness while chloride accentuates malt/mouthfeel. For example, west coast IPA's are typically higher in sulfates which contributes to the sharp bitterness in that style. With NE IPA's, I think most folks are either going 1:1 or heavier on the chloride addition resulting in a fuller mouthfeel and lower perceived bitterness. But, it all really boils down to your personal preference.
 

stickyfinger

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Wanted to ask again...

Hey all,

Quick questions about water chemistry for these beers (Sorry if this has been covered, if so, please point me to the post).

In one post I saw Braufessor talked about playing with the Sulfate:Chloride ratios to achieve different flavor profiles/mouthfeels for this type of beer. My question is, what types of flavors/feels does each type of adjustment lead to? What happens to hop/grain flavors and mouthfeel when you have a 1:1 ratio? 2:1 ratio? 1:2 ratio?

I am curious. Let me know what you all have found!
to me, adding sulfate makes the beer come across as a lot more dry (not sweet) and crisp.
 

cheesebach

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In my case, the motivation for keeping the boil hop material out of the fermenter is 2 things:

1) I like to ferment in a 5gal corny keg, especially for this style, to keep the beer from getting any exposure to O2 after fermentation has started. The more space in the fermenter that is taken up by hops, the less beer I get in my serving keg.
2) I don't have a ball valve on my kettle, and I've clogged my siphon a few times with the hop soup that is the last 2 gallons of the kettle. This is more mess and more cleaning and generally means I have to lift and pour my kettle directly, making more mess.
 

Tarpon87

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Full Volume mash, no sparge.
I was curious as I've noticed that info before (added x amt during mash and x amt during sparge) and didn't really know how that would work with BIAB.
When using Bru N Water to get the amts, I add all in to the strike water while heating. It's worked good so far but wanted to push the envelope a little but have been hesitant not wanting to ruin a batch of beer.

I'll be brewing the NEIPA in a month or two and will go with the numbers provided here and see how that turns out.

Thanks for the info.
Full volume mash, which is what i do, it all goes in with the mash water. Remember those figures Braufessor used are for RO water, if you are not using RO those additions might not be appropriate for your water. If you are, just multiply by however many gallons you are starting with and you should be good to go. Best of luck.
 

tld6008

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maybe I'm alone on this one but I felt like when I added a trub rest, my IPA's improved considerably. I'm not using any sort of filter in the boil so maybe that's a factor.

When I brewed with propane, I had a false bottom and I would go directly from whirlpool to fermenter and I didn't have any problems. I switched to electric a few years ago and brought my techniques along with me. I made a few IPA's that I was not happy with. The flavors I was getting would probably best be described as grassy and muddy. It was frustrating the heck out of me especially since I previously made good IPA's. Finally, it dawned on me that the difference with this setup is that I have nothing catching any trub. I started doing a trub rest and since that batch, I haven't looked back and I have been happy with my IPA's. Maybe the root of my problem was that some of it was ending up in the keg like Braufessor mentioned. Either way, I'd like to skip it since it would carve time off my brew day but at this point, I'm too convinced that it is helping me on my current setup.

At the end of the day, if you're not doing a trub rest and you're happy with the final product, that is all that really matters. :mug:
What is a "trub rest"?
 

pearljam1984

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I tapped keg of most recent NE IPA. However this was meant to be more of a Pale Ale. 5.5 Gallon. 5.5% ABV.
I did 80% 2-Row. 15% white wheat. 5% 15L.
Hopped with Columbus and Citra at a total of 7.5oz. (4oz dry Hop).
S04 yeast. Fermented around 62/63.
This is exactly 5 weeks from brew day. Very juicy and great aromatics.
 

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LakesideBrewing

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Sorry, I think this been addressed, but what's the earliest that you could add the first dry hop charge? I'm on day three and fermentation has really slowed. I should dry hop asap, no?
 
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