Noob cider questions

[Will_haro]

I'm in the process of my first batch of cider. We juiced the apples, killed the wild yeast and used champagne yeast with priming sugar and a falling of water to get it going(total 3.5 gallons) After 2 weeks I racked it to a second and no longer had any activity after a week.... This is where it gets confusing and wrong I'm sure. I waited another three days and decided to put it into swing top bottles. We were careful to avoid the yeast at the bottom but there was some in the bottom of the bottles and we added a little sugar and some Brewers Apple flavoring to the bottle before closing them up to get them to carbonate. (Less than a teaspoon)
Are these at risk for being bottle bombs?
I currently have them in the bottle box at about 50° and was planning to leave them a month or two.

 

[porterpounder]

Yeast in the bottles won't cause bottle bombs. Thick swing-tops can also handle quite a bit of pressure. As long as you weigh out your priming sugar to add the correct amount to the proper volume you should be fine. Take gravity readings prior to packaging to make sure it's stable.

 

[dmtaylor]

Three weeks from start to bottling is pushing it a little too fast in my opinion. I do think there is some risk of gushers or potential explosions. I would have waited a minimum of 4 or 5 weeks, and 2 months is not rare for my fermentations either. Patience is important.

All that being said, I hope it turns out for you. If you notice the bottles are starting to get high pressure, you might want to pop all the lids and recap them to let some pressure out. But, you might get lucky and everything will be fine. A couple more weeks and you'll know for sure. Good luck.

 

[HB_in_Subic]

I would check a couple of the bottles at the one week mark for pressure.

 

[Will_haro]

Well today was the day and the verdict is in. They are gushers and I picked up some yeast in them so it's a fail.
My second batch was started on 8/17/16 and put into a secondary on 9/17. The cake in the bottom is minimal and I see ZERO activity.

How much longer should I wait before bottling?

 

[dmtaylor]

Second batch might be safe to bottle. Sorry about the first but I figured.

 

[Will_haro]

It's a fun learning experience and I'm already hooked! I want this batch perfect and sparkling is the result I'm after. Is there enough co2 to carbonate them at this point or do I need to prime them?

 

[dmtaylor]

Prime with 2 tablespoons sugar per gallon. It often takes a month or two to carbonate but it will eventually.

 

[Texconsinite]

I've often gone a few as 2 weeks with no problems, however I have only made cider with storebought juice. Ive used both fresh fruit and juice for wine, my experience has been that fermentation from fresh fruit is more volatile and unpredictable than juice, so it makes sense this would be true for cider as well.

As far as how long to ferment, it depends on gravity and yeast. One of the things i found after several batches with both, is i prefer the taste of neutral beer yeast over champagne yeast in cider. It wont ferment as low or quite as vigorously, and as a result seems to leave more sweetness and apple flavor behind than the wine yeast. It also seems to need less time to age before being ready to drink.

Most store-bought apple juice/cider is in the 1.050-1.056 range, so thinking of it like a beer, you dont really need to add sugar if you're pressed apples are there already, keeping in mind that beer yeast will potentially ferment apples lower than wort. I would base your timing on waiting until its fermented down to 1.08 or lower and stopped dropping, rather than a set # of weeks.

For bottling cider, would add priming sugar to the bottling bucket rather than individually to bottles. Another trick is just to mix in 1 can of thawed 100% apple juice concentrate per 5G at bottling time, as it adds both apple flavor and sugar, and might mix more evenly amongst bottles than granulated sugar.

Cheers, hope that helps

 

[stpug]

Well today was the day and the verdict is in. They are gushers and I picked up some yeast in them so it's a fail.
My second batch was started on 8/17/16 and put into a secondary on 9/17. The cake in the bottom is minimal and I see ZERO activity.

How much longer should I wait before bottling?

Yeast in the bottle is normal and expected. In fact, unless you want a completely still (i.e. non-carbonated) beverage, or are working with sterile filtering methods and force carbonation, you HAVE TO have yeast in the bottle post-carbonating. Yeast in the bottle does not result in a failed attempt.

Gushers, in and of themselves, don't make for a failed attempt wither. If it's simply too much carbonation then you can relieve some of the pressure and recap (as was previously mentioned). I think the best way is to chill all of the bottles to refrigeration temps, and then, one-by-one and slowly, crack open the pop-top to release some co2 pressure - then quickly recap and put back in the fridge. Do this a few times over the coarse of a day and the next day pull one out to pour into a glass to test carbonation level - if it's where you want it then you can pull the remainder of the bottles back out to room temp.

It's a fun learning experience and I'm already hooked! I want this batch perfect and sparkling is the result I'm after. Is there enough co2 to carbonate them at this point or do I need to prime them?

Without a pressurized fermentation vessel, there is likely never going to be enough co2 in suspension for a fully carbonated beverage. Perhaps there will be enough for a slight tingle on the tongue, but certainly not a "bubbly" drink.

Once you've hit absolute full attenuation, you can use an online priming calculator to determine the amount of sugar to use for that batch to achieve the desired level of carbonation. This is the best method since it takes into account the fermentation/aging temperature of the cider (i.e. residual co2 level) when calculating the priming sugar amount.

I've often gone a few as 2 weeks with no problems, however I have only made cider with storebought juice. Ive used both fresh fruit and juice for wine, my experience has been that fermentation from fresh fruit is more volatile and unpredictable than juice, so it makes sense this would be true for cider as well.

As far as how long to ferment, it depends on gravity and yeast. One of the things i found after several batches with both, is i prefer the taste of neutral beer yeast over champagne yeast in cider. It wont ferment as low or quite as vigorously, and as a result seems to leave more sweetness and apple flavor behind than the wine yeast. It also seems to need less time to age before being ready to drink.

Most store-bought apple juice/cider is in the 1.050-1.056 range, so thinking of it like a beer, you dont really need to add sugar if you're pressed apples are there already, keeping in mind that beer yeast will potentially ferment apples lower than wort. I would base your timing on waiting until its fermented down to 1.08 or lower and stopped dropping, rather than a set # of weeks.

For bottling cider, would add priming sugar to the bottling bucket rather than individually to bottles. Another trick is just to mix in 1 can of thawed 100% apple juice concentrate per 5G at bottling time, as it adds both apple flavor and sugar, and might mix more evenly amongst bottles than granulated sugar.

Cheers, hope that helps

I prefer the method of adding your priming to the large batch, and then bottling the bottles. I believe you get a more evenly distributed priming addition and less chance for individual variance bottle-by-bottle.

 

[John1961]

I would save about 5% volume of the fresh squeezed apple juice, boil it to kill any wild yeast and store it in a container in the fridge until bottling and add it instead of the store bought as the store bought could have added chemicals causing??????

 

[Will_haro]

Thanks for all of the input! Batch two seems to be in good shape.
The yeast in the first batch was super excessive and it was still working when I bottled. I've learned to exercise a little patience with ciders. In the mean time there's beer.