No smoking debate

[Beer Snob]

When I was in the hospital with heart problems this is the first question they asked me. Do I smoke? I have never smoked, nor even had a thought to try one. There seemed to be an assumtion that I smoked or did drugs or ate pounds of lard or over 100 other things that might have gotten me to where I was at that time. I guess I am very much for a ban on smoking in all busnesses. I have seen many people quit and know how hard it is. My father told me the other week that you never really quit. You always have that little urge to start up again. You know guys, this Coranary Artery Disease. It's a silent killer. Generally the people who live to talk about heart disease do so because other complications got them to the doctors office. If I did not have the tumor I would have never known about it. I was pumping at 22% and it was clear that my body was preparing for a final heart attack (I have had two without my knowing already... one was in my 20s). So what I'm getting at is that it's just not you. If it was you nobody would care. Smoke all you want wherever you want. But it's not. It's hurting.... no killing... your friends, your wife.... your kids.... me. The article quotes 35,000 people. People who never piced up a cigerette in thier life. This research is well beyond the... "Hey I wonder if second hand smoke is hurting other people...?" It is killing us.

So for my final 2 cents I suppose I want to point out that these people are the people the governmetn is trying to protect. They certainly want smokers to quit, but realy could not care the less. They made the decision already and have options to quit if they wanted to. I am actually against the goverment forcing situations like this, but it dont look like they have any choice if they want it done. Businesses are not going to stop smoking unless they are told flat out it's illeagle and here are the fines you are going to be paying.


This is a section of WebMD:

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http://www.webmd.com/content/pages/9/1675_57857
Heart Disease:
Smoking and Heart Disease

Most people associate cigarette smoking with breathing problems and lung cancer. But did you know that smoking is also a major cause of heart disease for men and women?

About 20% of all deaths from heart disease in the U.S. are directly related to cigarette smoking. That's because smoking is a major cause of coronary artery disease.

A person's risk of heart attack greatly increases with the number of cigarettes he or she smokes. Smokers continue to increase their risk of heart attack the longer they smoke. People who smoke a pack of cigarettes a day have more than twice the risk of heart attack than non-smokers. Women who smoke and also take birth control pills increase several times their risk of heart attack, stroke and peripheral vascular disease.

Cigarette smoke not only affects smokers. When you smoke, the people around you are also at risk for developing health problems, especially children. Environmental tobacco smoke (also called passive smoke or second-hand smoke) affects people who are frequently around smokers. Second-hand smoke can cause chronic respiratory conditions, cancer and heart disease. It is estimated that around 35,000 nonsmokers die from heart disease each year as a result of exposure to environmental tobacco smoke.

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[Genghis77]

Sure glad you managed to catch things in time. I've had many friends die because they neglected their health and were even afraid of doctors.

 

[Sir Sudster]

. Smoke all you want wherever you want. But it's not. It's hurting.... no killing... your friends, your wife.... your kids.... me. The article quotes 35,000 people. People who never piced up a cigerette in thier life. This research is well beyond the... "Hey I wonder if second hand smoke is hurting other people...?" It is killing us.

BULL Sh$t..It's because you sit in traffic for 2 hours a day and suck 30 carcinigens in you nose. There is no real evidence to support your claim only propaganda they know you'll suck-up to.. You got handed a bad set of genes unable to handle a harsh environment. Get real Dude! Do believe everything you read from MD. They have an agenda too!

 

[DocBob]

Actually there is evidence of an increase in disease in non-smokers who live in smoking households over those from non-smoking households (which are exposed to the same environmental conditions). Passive smoke does contribute to health issues, that is not "BULL Sh$t".

I do agree that your genetic make-up contributes to your sensitivity to many things. I know of teenagers for instance the developed mouth cancer after having chewed tobacco for only a very short time, and then there was my grandfather who chewed tobacco for 80+ years and died of old age. Yes genetics plays a roll. And yes environmental conditions do also contribute...

BUT, we can't change our genetic make-up, or the environment we all live in together. But we can individually consider the consequences of smoking on those around us and not smoke in a public place. I mentioned chewing tobacco. I also did this for years. I liken smoking to chewing tobacco in a public place. I was always conscientious about doing it around others...and that didn't affect their health...unless of course I spit on the floor and somebody slipped in it and broke their back!!! Smoking affects those around us physically. If you want to smoke, you are right, no one should tell you what you can't do with your own health, but I have no problem with laws that tell you what you can do to someone else's health. When someone lit up around me, I always wanted to put in a pinch and spit on them. It's less of a health risk to them, but just as offensive.

Smoke all you want in your own home, in you car, or outside...there should never be legislation regarding those. But in a public establishment I don't feel the same...and this is coming from a conservative who thinks the government needs to stay out of our lives. Unfortunately this is not a personal issue it's a public issue.

Sorry I'll get off my soapbox now.

 

[KopyKat]

I have heard this same debate so many times it is incredible. Due to the amount of responses on a board devoted to brewing, a person can easily see what really stirs up the passions.
One thing I have rarely heard in this debate is other options. It seems a black or white issue. How about what has worked for resturants in many places - smoking & non-smoking sections? How about creatively designed ventilation systems with airflows that will carry smoke up or down from a table or bar through a filter?
While I agree this should never turn into a federal or state law. How about the rights of a community to determine what is allowed or not in its setting? After all, a community, even a town or county many times has ordinances which control what business does in that community determined by those that live there. For example, dry counties where no alcohol businesses are allowed.
I believe for those that don't want goverment interference, the government we should be referring to most specifically is the federal government. This, I believe is what our forfathers most feared - control on a federal level. Personally, because most of our states are greater in population & government size than our forefathers imagined any federal government to be, I would include states. Our forefathers would concur I suspect.
Yes, this subject does arouse my passions also. As a former smoker I can see both sides of the issue and I think there are reasonable common ground without giving up too many rights.
BTW, I abstained from voting because none of the choices I saw were good ones.

 

[cgravier]

when i was in cali the non-smoking in bars was new, and the only difference was that the bars had no astrays, so everybody just put there butts out on the floor.

although you couldnt smoke, no one seemed to mind that we were doing lines of coke on the tables and smoking fat blunts either.

 

[Sir Sudster]

Actually there is evidence of an increase in disease in non-smokers who live in smoking households over those from non-smoking households (which are exposed to the same environmental conditions). Passive smoke does contribute to health issues, that is not "BULL Sh$t".

I do agree that your genetic make-up contributes to your sensitivity to many things. I know of teenagers for instance the developed mouth cancer after having chewed tobacco for only a very short time, and then there was my grandfather who chewed tobacco for 80+ years and died of old age. Yes genetics plays a roll. And yes environmental conditions do also contribute...

BUT, we can't change our genetic make-up, or the environment we all live in together. But we can individually consider the consequences of smoking on those around us and not smoke in a public place. I mentioned chewing tobacco. I also did this for years. I liken smoking to chewing tobacco in a public place. I was always conscientious about doing it around others...and that didn't affect their health...unless of course I spit on the floor and somebody slipped in it and broke their back!!! Smoking affects those around us physically. If you want to smoke, you are right, no one should tell you what you can't do with your own health, but I have no problem with laws that tell you what you can do to someone else's health. When someone lit up around me, I always wanted to put in a pinch and spit on them. It's less of a health risk to them, but just as offensive.

Smoke all you want in your own home, in you car, or outside...there should never be legislation regarding those. But in a public establishment I don't feel the same...and this is coming from a conservative who thinks the government needs to stay out of our lives. Unfortunately this is not a personal issue it's a public issue.

Sorry I'll get off my soapbox now.

Well said Sir. Thank You.

 

[Capa]

I don't smoke, cept for the occasional cigar, but i think this whole "Stand" thing has gotten out of hand. I am tired of people telling others how to live their life. I think the owner should have sole rights as to allow smoking or not.

That being said, I have to admit that its nice going to the bars and not reeking of smoke when you get home. Especially in the winter, i hate having to wash my coat everytime i go to a bar.

 

[Catfish]

Especially in the winter, i hate having to wash my coat everytime i go to a bar.

Hang your coat outside overnight, the smell goes away 90%.

 

[DeRoux's Broux]

the thread that refuses to die.

 

[Bernie Brewer]

It won't die, and I am resurrecting it yet again to put in my .02. I don't smoke, never have, but I'll be damned if I'm going to tell anyone whether or not they can light up unless I am in my own home or car. It's a legal activity and is no business of mine. Rather than mandating a smoking ban, we'd ge better off mandating adequate ventilation systems in public places.

 

[Beer Snob]

I do rather like how Amtrack deals with this. Has anyone taken Amtrack over the years? In general they have a "smoking car". I have even seen some of these cars with a hall leading people from one car to another seperated by glass that the smoker walks in a door from. One time I was walking down one of these halls and looked to the smoking side and wondered if Amtrack smoked the glass. I could have sworn they did... you could barly see through the thing!

 

[Genghis77]

Last time I took Amtrac was in 2000, from Eugene Oregon to Chicago and return. Smoking on that one was in the bar car, then only during certain hours. People would smoke also in the loading bays, near the restrooms. Biggest complaint was going from Seattle to Chicago. They ran out of food and everything else. Instead of ordering what I wanted, my question was "What's left?" Coming, back was much beter. I think coastal runs of Amtrac are far better than the coast to coast routes. But, they're almost certain to go bankrupt.

 

[subwyking]

im a smoker. and i enjoy doing it. however, i am not a person who feels like i can smoke anytime, anywhere. i have on multiple occasions put a cig out in a resteraunt because the person at the table next to me asked me to. i dont have a problem doing it. as a matter of fact, i hate the smell of smoke when im eating too. i dont "jones" so bad for a smoke that i cant wait 30 minutes till im out of the resteraunt.

 

[Orfy]

The UK Government as just voted for an outright ban on smoking in all public places.

 

[DeRoux's Broux]

The UK Government as just voted for an outright ban on smoking in all public places.

wowzers. that'll be big......

 

[Walker]

ahhhh.... reminds me of California.

-walker

 

[Janx]

It has worked great to ban it here in California. I love being able to go to restaurants and bars and not get all smoky-stinky.

As far as all this "free market would take care of it" nonsense, I don't buy that for a second. The free market certainly didn't take care of it before the ban. It only takes one smoker to ruin a room for everyone else. It's the only legal product that when properly used causes death. Kill yourself somewhere where the rest of us don't have to suffer too.

 

[80/-]

The UK Government as just voted for an outright ban on smoking in all public places.

Ehhhm - not quite. The English and Welsh have decided to follow the lead of the Scots (once again ! You there, south of the border - Catch Up! ) and ban smoking in all public places.

In Scotland the ban came into force on Sunday and all bars, restaurants and other public places are now non-smoking.

So far, there hasn't been that much of a fuss caused by smokers.

 

[Orfy]

I wish they would!

I also wish they'd bann it from entrances to public places. I have to battle through a cloud of foul smelling, cancer inducing ransid smoke every time I go into the local supermarket. Horrible, I have to hold my breath for 10 yards.

 

[Brewpastor]

Smoking is extremely unhealthy and anyone who has experienced a loved one die from cancer can attest to its cost. If you wish to smoke, fine, that is your business, but it isn't you right to impose it on anyone else. Further, I should not have to avoid any restaurant or bar because people are choosing to spin the cancer russian rollette wheel for themselves. It also has to do with employees and there exposer to smoke.

MY OPINION is ban them all together. Why should my tax dollars go to support the health care of people who have knowingly done activitiies that lead to all the health issues we all know smoking leads to?

 

[sause]

I also wish they'd bann it from entrances to public places. I have to battle through a cloud of foul smelling, cancer inducing ransid smoke every time I go into the local supermarket. Horrible, I have to hold my breath for 10 yards.

Yeah I could agree with you, I was walking into one of my local malls and there was this one lady that was with a kid in a stroller and right when she walked out side she lit up. And I said loud enough for her to hear me "I hate people who hurt their own family members" I wanted to punch that lady and take that baby away from her.

 

[Cheesefood]

I've been off the Sticks for 2+ months now, and haven't looked back. I've hung out, drinking, with chain smokers and didn't bum any!

I've had 2 stogies in that time, but those don't count against me, now do they?

 

[Beer Snob]

I do have to say some times it is very funny to see what is going on. There was this woman about 6 months back who for some reason decided to tell me that the hamburger I was eating was terrible. She is a vegetarian you see and she would never eat any animal that had to be killed so she could eat it. Meat is so unhealthy she added... filled with terrbiel things...... then she lit up a cigarete and walked away.

 

[beyondthepale]

I really don't like this trend towards government authorities forcing their social engineering ideas on people. Believe you me, if there are no laws prohibiting smokers, there will be restaurant owners who make their establishment non-smoking, and use that as an advertising feature, and they'll do fine. Thus, you will have non-smoking restaurants, and smoking restaurants. Everybody wins.

 

[home brewer]

personnally i like to know what gives thees politicians the right to play god in the first place.
before i start ranting and raving about the subject please remember that my grandfarther and many more like him thought and a lot killed in the second world war and every one since so we had the luxury of choice to do what we wanted instead of a man with a gun in your face telling you to do /not5 to do it.
in the eighties and before smoking was allowed on the back of the single buses and upstairs on double deckers. on trains if there wasnt a smoking carrage it was taken for granted you could smoke in the gaurds carriage.
i have a vision of the future of brittain, if the powers that be don,t ruin it total first.
and the easest way to describe it is watch films like judge dredd and demolition man, and when the shout goes out for citizen, number xxxx please refrain from smelling that flower look at the face giving command and see if it ressembles hitler because this gouvernment is neaarly there.
this is just myopinion though.

 

[Alchemist]

New Guy here, thought I'd drop my 2 cents in. I'm from NY, and the no-smoking laws actually help me quit ('til the Army sent me to Iraq). It always seemed like I'd miss the highlight of the night when I'd step out for a smoke, have to get the whole story second hand. I was clean for a year, felt better, had more money, yadda yadda. While I give a lot of credit to that, militant non-smokers beware: if I'm trying to do the right thing by going outside and away from you, and you're still gonna be an a$$ about it, it's game on. I understand it may be unpleasant for you to walk past the smokers, but you can walk past them. The 10 to 15 seconds it takes to shoot us a dirty look and walk though the door won't ruin your night, so don't ruin mine by spending the whole night telling me how to quit, especially if you've never done it. To finish this tirade, "it's easy, just don't smoke" or "I've been not smoking my whole life" or other such non-sense is not good advice, it just irritates people.

Sorry for the rant.

 

[sudsmonkey]

I feel you, man ! I quit 8 or 9 weeks ago after 22 years of heavy smoking. I always hated the dirty looks too. Had a guy tell me that he quit one day after lighting a cigarette that went out and not noticing until after he'd driven 4 hours. Realized it was all psychological ! I'f you haven't smoked at least the better part of a pack in that time period, you don't have a serious nicotine addiction.
Anyway, now that I don't smoke, it'd be fine with me if they outlawed it. Mom and aunt died from lung cancer, emphysema runs in the family , etc..
Now what do I do with these extra 15 lbs. I'm hauling ? Why can't I get away from the table ?

 

[tomthacker]

My humble opinion, I think the owner of the restaraunt or bar should make the choice and be required to post it on the door. Let the market conditions sort it out. Most of this came about becuase the non smokers wanted to sit with the smokers because the smokers were having more fun, then they wanted smoking banned at the smoking table to accomodate the intruder. I quit ten years ago, and I'm not sure which is worse, the annual bronchitis (from smoking) or the extra forty pounds that wont go away.

 

[Brewpastor]

My humble opinion, I think the owner of the restaraunt or bar should make the choice and be required to post it on the door. Let the market conditions sort it out.

What about employees and second hand smoke? And health care costs. The bottom line is that I am having to support the health care of people who have deseases because they smoke. While there was a time when we could say that they didn't understand the risk, we are way past that. Should my money be spent to care for them?