No smoking debate

[Walker]

yikes.. 3 packs a day is a LOT of smoking. You're talking 60 cigarettes a day there, average waking time of 16 hours/day.... that's 3 or 4 cigarettes every HOUR! I think I would be coughing up tarballs.

I'm below the 1/2-pack-a-day mark (about 3 packs a week). At my worst, I was about 1pack/day. That was many years ago, though.

-walker

 

[BlightyBrewer]

I saw something once that read,

"You're a smoker. The by-product of your habit is smoke. It gets in my hair, on my clothes...

I drink beer, the by product of my habit is urine. How would you like it if I pi$$ed all over your hair and clothes!"

This is a very interesting debate. My opinion (FWIW):-

I'm all for an outright ban on smoking in public places. When I was in CA last, it was very refreshing for me being in a smoke-free bar, and the smokers didn't seem to mind smoking outside (but it is CA - good weather etc).

The cold hard fact is that second hand smoke can affect the health of those around the smoker. So is it right that someone should be allowed to affect the health of others in a public place?

As I am writing this I am also thinking that one could argue that beer (if taken in excess) can also effect the health of others if that person resorts to voilence due to being drunk (an ever increasing problem in the UK). I suppose it is all about the individual taking responsibility for their own actions....

Walker, Cheesefood, I admire your respect for others.

 

[Walker]

Walker, Cheesefood, I admire your respect for others.

It's not just respect for others. That *IS* a large portion of it, but a portion of it (for me, at least) comes from outright shame. I'm often embarassed by hte habit.

-walker

 

[Cheesefood]

It's not just respect for others. That *IS* a large portion of it, but a portion of it (for me, at least) comes from outright shame. I'm often embarassed by hte habit.

-walker

I'll stand by my earlier analogy. Smoking is like crapping - it should be done privately in places where one expects it. Walking into a bathroom, I fully expect to smell poop. It's unfortunate that we equate the smell of smoke with bars.

Years ago, the Wife and I moved to a new apt. We couldn't believe how bad our clothes smelled in our new place because of the smoke. We made a vow to never smoke inside our place again, and we've stuck to it.

In the winter, we just smoke less. It's not worth standing out in the freezing cold (and we're talking Chicago winters with windchills in the -20º zone). So I **REALLY** have to want a cigarette to go outside.

And Walker, I'm 30. Started when I was 13. I'm now at about 2-4 per day. Not packs, 2-4 cigarettes.

 

[Genghis77]

2 to 4 cigaettes a day! You didn't get addicted to them like most then. The vast majority of smokers are about 1-1/2 packs a day.I went from 3 packs a day to nada like turning off a light switch. Definitely would not have a single cigarette or I fear I would quickly return to the same level again. But, I have never been tempted since I quit. And I had a nice MRI and CT scan with a physical and my lungs have cleared up as though I had never been a smoker. I get both done every 5 years as I used to work around lots of radioactive materials and on the watch for the consequences....... maybe that was a reason I was such a heavy smoker.

 

[Genghis77]

Back when they allowed smoking on planes, something really annoyed me. Smokers would get non smoking seats and frequently get up move into the smoking section (where I was seated) smoke and then return to their non-smoking seats. Then there are people who have no smoking signs on the front of their house and in fact they are smokers. I think they are just in a state of denial or just imposing standards on others.

 

[kornkob]

Er--- why does not wanting people to smoke in your house make you a hypocrit? I often smoke when I'm out drinking but I'll be damned if I'll let someone light up in my house.

 

[Walker]

back when both I and my wife were smoking (before we had kids), we smoked at home, but NEVER inside the house. The stank from the stale smoke was wretched. Most of my smoking friends are this way, too...

So, i guess we would all be the kind of people who smoked but did not allow smoking in the house. Hypocrite? I don't think so. We weren't telling people not to smoke at all, we were just asking them to step outside.

Now, if I was a smoker, but gave people a hard time about smoking... OR... if I did not allow smoking in my house but complained that someone asked me go outside to smoke... THAT would be hypocritical, but being a smoker that prefers it to happen outside? Not hypocritical.

-walker

 

[Genghis77]

The cases I knew of the people smoked in their own house but apparently tried to advertise that they were non smokers. Once inside you would see the used ash trays though.

 

[Genghis77]

Come to think of it, in cases the people with the no smoking signs had stickers on their cars that were anti-drug. But they used illicit drugs. Just a ruse, they thought the police wouldn't suspect them.

 

[El Pistolero]

Wow, look at this new law that just took effect in Washington State!

On Thursday, a law passed overwhelmingly by voters in November went into effect, not only banning indoor smoking in public accommodations but also requiring people who light up to stay at least 25 feet from the door of any such place. Officials here say the ban is the toughest anywhere in the country to be adopted statewide.

 

[Cheesefood]

The cases I knew of the people smoked in their own house but apparently tried to advertise that they were non smokers. Once inside you would see the used ash trays though.

Maybe they wanted to control the amount of smmoking in their house. I have a friend who lets us smoke inside his place, and when I'm there I can easily smoke a pack or more in a few hours. However, by banning indoor smoking at my place, its out of sight, out of mind and I can go the entire day without a cigarette.

But if you let your friends over and they all smoke a pack, you have like 3-4 packs being smoked in your place at one time. THAT will stink up your clothes pretty nasty.

 

[Cheesefood]

Wow, look at this new law that just took effect in Washington State!

Good for Washington! I wish they'd make cigarettes illegal. Why is tobacco legal but not pot? Let's save that debate for another day.

 

[Genghis77]

An outright ban on smoking would be frightening like the Prohibition on alcohol. I don't think it would work for the same reasons. When passing laws on smoking they need to keep in mind a place for smokers too. Otherwise, the smokers will most likely ignore the law. Maybe the solution is to have the manufacturers make cigarettes nicotine free. People might quit when it no longer provided pleasure.

 

[Genghis77]

Just got to thinking about the consequences of making manufacturers make nicotine free cigarettes. It would vastly expand the grow your own. roll your own market, just as exists with pot. What is definitely not needed is more laws that cannot be effectively enforced.

 

[kornkob]

Never mind the 'consequence' of forcing a company to make a product for which there would be no market to speak of.

Besides, I don't think nicotine is the problem. It's all the other crap that makes it dangerous.

 

[Walker]

An outright ban on smoking would be frightening like the Prohibition on alcohol. I don't think it would work for the same reasons. When passing laws on smoking they need to keep in mind a place for smokers too. Otherwise, the smokers will most likely ignore the law. Maybe the solution is to have the manufacturers make cigarettes nicotine free. People might quit when it no longer provided pleasure.

I read this last year, so maybe they can be found on the market now...

A small cigaratte company (Vector; the company that make Pyramid brand cigarettes and others) had developed genetically engineered tobacco that was nicotine free. In a weird business model, they were actually selling these as a "stop-smoking" item. They plan to sell the new "Quest" brand cigarettes in three strengths by mixing the nicotine free tobacco with regular tobacco in varying proportions, and the smoker could then ween themselves off the nicotine while continuing to satisfy the oral and hand habits and puffing away on the cigarettes.

I think this would work for me. The nicotine cravings are gone after a few days, but I have the urge to lght up when driving in my car or thinking about a problem at work... for me it's the physical ACTION of smoking that's hardest to kick. If I could eliminate the nicotine in one step, and then the action in a second step, I think I would probably be more successful.

Granted, those nicotine free cigarettes are still horrible for your health, since they still contain ALL of the carcinogens and nasty crap that a regular cigarette does, but they just aren't chemically addictive.

-walker

PS: oh.. and the weird thing about this genetically engineered, nicotine free tobacco was that it was grown by cell-phone carrying Amish farmers!

Here's a link: http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.02/smoking.html

 

[Genghis77]

When I quit, I carried an unopened pack of cigarettes for about a month. One day someone asked me for a cigarette and I gave him the pack and the lighter......<grinning>. I think your right, the motion is a good part of giving up the habit. Many people substitue chewing gum.

Something I have found it among those that really quit for good, they managed to quit without withdrawl. They just decided to and did. It is only diffcult before it is accomplished.

 

[DeRoux's Broux]

i don't smoke cigarettes, only a cigar once in a while. and when i smoke a cigar, at do it at home, in the back yard, down wind of everyone in the yard.

i think after i go out to a club/bar, and come home after several beers, my hangover's are way worse than when i stay home or go to a friends and drink. the the second-hand smoke just kick's my arse and makes me feel like hammered dog sh*t!

smoking just doesn't affect the person smoking. it affects everyone around that person. it's a health issue to me......

 

[Orfy]

If I go into a pub with only one person smoking, the next day I can smell it on my coat when I'm in the car. It stinks!

 

[Genghis77]

On the news last night they were telling how macular degeneration is caused by smoking and second hand smoke. So besides the lung problems, you can go blind from it.

 

[FrewBrew]

the sense of taste is directly linked to your sense of smell, if I've got smoke lining my nostrils from all the smokers of the world, the food won't taste the same... F smoking in public!

 

[DeRoux's Broux]

the sense of taste is directly linked to your sense of smell, if I've got smoke lining my nostrils from all the smokers of the world, the food won't taste the same... F smoking in public!

tell us how u really feel frewbrew

 

[FrewBrew]

tell us how u rwally feel frewbrew

lonely, sad, depressed... all the classic signs of missing someone you know you can't ever have back... oh wait, you meant about the issue at hand

 

[rewster451]

I'd like to recant what I said earlier. Sure I smoke, but really, when I'm in a place where I can't smoke, I enjoy the food/beer more, save money on cgs, and generally have a good time anyway. I'm ok with a ban on indoor smoking, so long as I can go outside if I'm really jonesin'.

 

[The Happy Mug]

I used to smoke, but have quit for good.

I quit going to bars because of the smoke. There are no non-smoking bars near me, and I prefer walking home from bars. The nearest non-smoking bar is a half hour drive. Forget that!

I stopped shooting pool because I can't find a non-smoking poolhall nearby. Last time I shot pool, I went with friends and ended up with the smoke-stench pillow and clothes, as well as the cough from inhaling that crap.

So, I can't shoot pool either? There are no non-smoking poolhalls near me, and the last poolhall was foggy from smoke. Forget that crap!

Seriously, I'm certain there are some of those hardcore smokers out there to tell us why they deserve the privelage of ruining it for the rest of us, just because they can't go without smoking or can't make it outside.

I'm all for business decisions. I personally find it sad that I cannot find a non-smoking bar or poolhall anywhere near me. I simply will not go to these places, so my voice remains unheard.

 

[Orfy]

I am lucky enough to have never of smoked but I hate the fact when I leave a building I have to hold by breath and walk through a cloud of smelly caner inducing poisonous smoke. I constantly have to wash my coat because of the smell. I think they should ban smoking within 15 yards of entrances.
Sorry if this sound tough but I don't see why I should have to endure it.

 

[SuperBrew]

I, like I believe most rational Americans would be, am opposed to having any local, state, or Federal law that limits recreational activities such as smoking. That being said, Smoking has been banned in restaurants and bars in my area for about a year and a half, and I've gotta say as a non smoker its been great. I didn't realize how nice it was until last week when I visited a friend and went out to a bar that allowed smoking. The smell the next morning isnt what annoys me the most, although I do hate that, its the fact that after 20 minutes in even a semi-crowded bar I had to step outside because my eyes were burning so badly. Thats the thing I hate.

 

[Pumbaa]

Where do you draw the line in reguards to what you allow the government to regulate? Should we start extra taxes or flat out bans of Twinkies? ice cream? beer? spirits? unprotected sex? sky diving? slamming your head into hard objects? or anything else you may enjoy because it could be harmfull to yourself and possibly others?

As for some of the sterotypes of smokers I have seen here . . . .well I'll be polite and wont tell you to kiss my ass. some people are just rude asshats smokers and non smokers alike. I rutinely field strip my dead smokes and pocket the butt until I can throw then into a trash can. Respect for others goes both ways. When I get up and walk outside to have a smoke if I am out to eat or something I dont expect a standing ovation from the rest of the diners, but then again when I am outside in a cold Wisconsin winter freezing my ass off to feed my addiction I also dont expect to have some one give me the evil eye like I have just detonated a nuclear bomb in the parking lot or farted in a church. I also really dont need any advice while I am out there on how I should quit and that I am slowly killing myself . . .cuz if ya start making me think about it, as the snot in my nose freezes, I may just decide your right and start to quickly kill you instead.

Simple solution is

• Ya dont like smoking, dont smoke.
• If ya dont like being around smokers go to places that dont allow it.
• If ya dont like working in a place with smokers find a place where they dont allow smoking to work in
• Dont tell me what to do with my place of business and I wont tell you what to do with yours

Honstly I think smokers put up with WAY too much crap on this issue. Name me one other group who so quietly rolls over and does waht ya ask everytime you ask? Cant smoke inside, ok I'll go outside. Cant smoke within 25 feet of a door ok I'll go out to the sidewalk. Cant smoke on the premisis, ok I'll go to my car . . . I even had a security guard come up to my car and told me I couldnt smoke in it . . . thats the one time I told someone to F' off about it and even then I was parked in across the street from where the guard worked.

If ya dont want to go to a bar or whatever that allows smoking dont go to them, Vote with your $$ and if business owners start losing money they'll change to accomidate you . . . until then STFU and let them run their business the way they want to . . . otherwise you have no reason to ***** when regulations start getting forced down your throat.

 

[DeRoux's Broux]

one question. what if it's a restaurant that i dig eating at? i shouldn't go somewhere i like, so someone can suck tar down? it's not like dribking a beer. i can drink a beer sitting next to ssomeone, and it doesn't interfer w/ them enjoying their beer/meal. smoking affects everyone around the smoker. my beer doesn' stink up a room, or i don't smell like someone's beer when i get home from somewhere. to a non-smoker, it stinks, it's unhealthy (something we choose not to expose ourselves to unlike liver damage :^) )
and eeccchhh. not trying to offend you or any other non-smoker, but it affects everyone around you. plain and simple.

 

[BlightyBrewer]

...but it affects everyone around you. plain and simple.

DeRoux, I think you've hit the nail on the head. Smoking is simply an anti-social habit. Drinking beer in moderation around others is social, as you have rightly pointed out. But going on a binge-drinking session and downing 20 pints, throwing up in the street, starting a fight..is anti-social.

Alcohol in moderation is social to drinkers and non-drinkers alike, but unfortunatley smoking will always be anti-social (and harmful) to the non-smokers, which is why I feel it should be banned in all public places.

 

[El Pistolero]

...which is why I feel it should be banned in all public places.

I agree...except maybe for rock concerts.

 

[Pumbaa]

one question. what if it's a restaurant that i dig eating at?

Then voice your concern to the owner, just like a smoker may to a owner of a non smoking establishment, you may like eating there but it is HIS place. IF he wants your cash he'll meet your needs, if he wants a smokers cash he'll meet theirs.

Smoking is simply an anti-social habit

Depends how ya look at it . . . it crosses all social and economic barriers and I tell ya what, had plenty of good conversations over a cig while freezing my ass off in the snow . . . cuz I was anti-social I guess . . .wait Ihave never seen a smoker tell a non smoker to take his ass outside inot the rain/snow/heat/wind

 

[rewster451]

My roommate doesn't smoke, so I go outside. My favorite bar doesn't allow smoking, so I go outside. I have friends who don't smoke and don't mind the smoke except when they're eating, so I don't smoke while they eat. I always make sure my cig butts make it into some kind of trash receptacle. Do I want a medal? Well, that would be nice, but I'm not asking for one. The point is, if I'm trying to be respectful of others I don't want to be ostracized.

Is smoking inherently anti-social? No way. Smokers are a society in and of themselves. I go outside to smoke with a buddy who smokes and we talk about things on a level we couldn't with fifty people around. It's kind of nice. I'm always conscious of offending someone with my cigarette smoke, but really, is it that different from being near someone who wears an obscene amount of cologne? Should we ban that too? Some people wear so much you can't breathe around them. Do I tell them to go outside? No. I go somewhere where I can't smell them. Sometimes that's really far away.

Having said all that, I do want to quit. Not because of what it does to others, because like I said, I try to minimize that as much as possible, but because of what it does to me. I want to live a long, long time.

 

[Pumbaa]

Having said all that, I do want to quit. Not because of what it does to others, because like I said, I try to minimize that as much as possible, but because of what it does to me. I want to live a long, long time

I'm trying to quit again next week, had 48 hours under my belt b4 I lit up yesterday morning but after X-mas, a funeral, and now my brother in the hospital after a motorcycle accident and in grave condition I figured F' it . . .

Good Luck man, withdrawls suck dont they

My main point is Non-smokers, not all but a very vocal group of them, seem to feel they can force their view and lifestyle on everyone. If they want a stictly non-smoking business fine set one up, best of luck and I hope ya make tons of cash. But last time I checked people in the US were allowed to make retarded choices if they wanted to and then deal with the results.

Legislating peoples personal choices is a very slippery slope. Just about anything you do can be shown to affect someone else no matter what the activity is. If ya want to legislate away smoking have at it, but then ya have NO room to ***** when they legislate away your choices. Hell, ya already have people calling for junk food taxes because of the medical cost of taking care of the fattys out there is jacking up the insurance premiums and costs paid by medicare/medicaid.

Maybe I'm wrong but I thought it was the governments responsibilty to take care of the big issues out there that indiviuals cant take care of themselves, not to deal with the piss ant stuff out there that you can take care of. So until a mass groupr of smokers start tackling people, tieing them up, and holds a gun to their heads forcing them to to be near them while they light up . . .I just dont see much of a issue here

 

[rewster451]

I know what you mean about quitting. I once quit for six months. Then I smoked one cigarette. I didn't go straight into smoking like a bandit right away, but six more months and I was up to a pack a day.
Right now I'm just trying to not put too much pressure on myself. I smoked one cig on Tuesday, maybe five yesterday, and so far one today. I'm waiting for that magic day when I wake up and decide to just go for it and go all day without. Until that happens though, I'll just keep up with the "go as long as you can without one" mentality.

 

[Genghis77]

I quit 17 years ago. I am still on guard against the temptation of lighting up when under stress. That is and will remain the main obstacle in quitting.

 

[rewster451]

Way to go genghis. I know what you mean. The thing is, sometimes longtime smokers invent stress so they'll have a reason to light up. Especially when they're trying to quit. I'm trying the technique of being honest with myself, saying "yes, I want to smoke," and moving from there. I've had five cigs today, and considering that I had too much to drink that's a good number for me. Normally when I drink too much it would be more than twenty. I just want to encourage the mentality within myself to realize that I don't need it, no matter what. I'm going to cut down drastically until I realize, not just in my head, but in my heart that smoking is stupid and it's killing me. I know it in my head. It's just a matter of convincing my "subconscious," if you will, that I can live without it.

It's the hardest addiction I've ever dealt with, and I've had a few.

 

[DeRoux's Broux]

I'm trying to quit again next week, had 48 hours under my belt b4 I lit up yesterday morning but after X-mas, a funeral, and now my brother in the hospital after a motorcycle accident and in grave condition I figured F' it . . .

Pumbaa, my prayers are with your brother, you, and your family. sorry to hear about his condition and i hope for the best.


i'm not a radical anti-smoker, but i just don't feel as a non-smoker, i should be the one to have to make special considerations for someone who does. but, i do tend to stay away from the stuff. no one in my family smokes (except a cigar every once in a blue moon, and outside) i've never dated a smoker, no friends smoke, etc. and if i go eat somewhere, i don't ask to be seated in the smoking section. but, if we end up sitting next to someone smoking, or in the bar, i don't ***** and complain. life's too short. it's just nice not having to smell the smoke or smell like the smoke.

 

[BlightyBrewer]

... is it that different from being near someone who wears an obscene amount of cologne? Should we ban that too?

Oh yeah! And all those totally obscure, ridiculous, crap cologne adverts!!

I'll just keep up with the "go as long as you can without one" mentality.

My wife quit some time ago, but she always had that temptation to light up (especially when stressed) until she had a course of acupuncture. Since then, she says she is not tempted to smoke at all, in fact the smell of it makes her feel sick.

Pumbaa, I hope your brother pulls through. I am a motorcyclist (commute every day), and when I hear of another biker who has been in an accident it reminds me of how dangerous it is out there.