The only reason I put the hinge on there--and maybe there's another way--is that it would just be my luck that the cup would end up floating on the beer with hops still sitting in it.
No oxygen dry hopping
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The only reason I put the hinge on there--and maybe there's another way--is that it would just be my luck that the cup would end up floating on the beer with hops still sitting in it.
How about a little hop cooling system to keep them fresh until it’s time for the addition? (Love the creativity)
(Love the creativity)
The only reason I put the hinge on there--and maybe there's another way--is that it would just be my luck that the cup would end up floating on the beer with hops still sitting in it.
Good point. Make the cup out of ss mesh. Then it will sink.
What if it was a hop bag, with the opening on the bottom? Remove the bottom magnet, bag opens, hops fall out.
bruce_the_loon
Well-Known Member
Add some slightly springy plastic to the hem of the hop bag to push it wide open once the magnet has been removed. Like those metal springs on some pouches or purses that keep the opening closed unless you pull the edges apart, but installed backwards so the forces go out.
Its lightly magnetic, not sure what series of ss it is but it definitely stuck to magnet, but not enough to lift and hold. That’s why i figured i needed stronger magnet.
Im a bit leery of using epoxy in beer, even food grade. Something like a magnetic-stainless key ring would be perfect, as it would connect the ball to the tubing sleeve instead of the thin crappy wire ring they supply. Or a ss washer or nut or something i could hang offv it.
But i still think i need better magnet.
![Craft A Brew - Safale S-04 Dry Yeast - Fermentis - English Ale Dry Yeast - For English and American Ales and Hard Apple Ciders - Ingredients for Home Brewing - Beer Making Supplies - [1 Pack]](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41fVGNh6JfL._SL500_.jpg)
Connectivity!! You need to be able to add the hops by using the app on your phone. Or by telling Alexa "deploy the dry hops"!!!
I'm planning to brew next weekend; wasn't planning on an IPA, but maybe i need to do one.
Nah, I can experiment. I'll see if some of this works and maybe even video it.
I even have a few open bags of hops I can use to see how the real thing works.
Nah, I can experiment. I'll see if some of this works and maybe even video it.
I even have a few open bags of hops I can use to see how the real thing works.
If you want the most commercial success, id think its better to avoid the sidewall design. No way to do that in the most common fermenter- the narrow neck carboy. But the flexible cup i referred to will work not only with narrow necks but wide mouths, buckets, anvils, fermonsters, etc etc.
If you design for sidewall but cant get your hand inside the vessel, how you gonna put it in place? Expanding cup works everywhere. And it seems easier to fill, just drop the hops in.
Im also thinking maybe dont attach it to the blowoff but instead use a fine ss wire you can secure above the stopper. Then let it drop inside, similar to the fishing line /bag combo noted above.
And no, co2 will not blow off the aromatics, at least not with pellets. Ive used fermentation gas to purge hop charges before dry hopping. Never saw any problems. But i only use pellets. Cant speak to cones.
For a fleeting moment I thought about trying to do this for others, not sure I'm motivated enough.
You point out an interesting thing--there are all sorts of applications. The narrow-neck carboy probably is the hardest, but any other type of plastic wide-mouth fermenter, or SS conical-type fermenter would probably be a decent candidate.
And there needs to be enough headspace. One complication is if there's too much krausen...if it comes in contact with the hops or mechanism or whatever, would it become gummed up and now work properly?
That's an argument for using a hop sock with enough weight in it to pull it loose from the side or lid when the external magnets are removed.
I wouldn't have a problem with any of this in my Spike CF10 when doing a 5-gallon batch, but I might with a 10-gallon batch.
WBB
Grab me another beer please!
Question. How do they dry hop with no oxygen in a commercial environment?
GoeHaarden
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I don't even LODO, but I try to minimize O2 ingress post fermentation. I've been trying to solve this problem as well with a "needlessly complex" solution, but the magnet ideas are brilliant.
I saw someone do this in a fermentasaurus and all he did was vacuum seal the magnets just to be sure it was safe for contact with the wort. Pulled the outside magnet and dropped hop bag completely in the wort. I'm sure you could use two magnets turn the bag upside down and pull the bottom magnet.
Homergah
Only I didn't say fudge
We ignore/deny the "co2 blanket is a myth" wisdom, and open the port on the top of the fermentor and drop hops. Not really introducing a detectable amount of oxygen. It's a matter of scale. As homebrewers with our small batches, we have to be many times more diligent with our processes.
I've been thinking about this problem for a while, and with the added twist that I ferment in Corny kegs with a floating dip tube. So I don't want a lot of extra equipment in there that might interfere with the floating dip tube. My latest thought (not tried yet), is to make a small mesh bag for the hops, but instead of a traditional bag, start with a piece of flat mesh and sew the bag up with dissolving thread. Suspend that bag with a magnet at the top, even within the lid depression, and release it when ready. Once the thread dissolves, what's left is a small piece of flat mesh, which hopefully would just settle nicely on the bottom.
These threads are made from polyvinyl alcohol, which is edible. And because there's only a few inches required, at the thickness of thread, I'm not at all concerned with it affecting the beer.
My only concern is that the krausen might build up high enough to dissolve the thread prematurely.
Another issue is that I'd really have no way of checking whether they released prematurely or not. I'd like to demo it with a big mouth bubbler or something, but I don't own one.
But maybe the thread isn't needed at all, if I can fold the sides of the "bag" over a magnet (vacuum - sealed strong one) and have that fixed to the lid with an external magnet. When the magnet is released, the "bag" should fall apart.
I'm personally not concerned with the hop pellets being exposed to the atmosphere in the fermenter for the few days before dry hopping. But if you are then you could get most of the way there by making a "bag" from plastic film and folding it over a magnet. Maybe the side from a quart ziploc bag.
By the way, if anyone has old hard drives lying around, those are a great source for super strong magnets.
These threads are made from polyvinyl alcohol, which is edible. And because there's only a few inches required, at the thickness of thread, I'm not at all concerned with it affecting the beer.
My only concern is that the krausen might build up high enough to dissolve the thread prematurely.
Another issue is that I'd really have no way of checking whether they released prematurely or not. I'd like to demo it with a big mouth bubbler or something, but I don't own one.
But maybe the thread isn't needed at all, if I can fold the sides of the "bag" over a magnet (vacuum - sealed strong one) and have that fixed to the lid with an external magnet. When the magnet is released, the "bag" should fall apart.
I'm personally not concerned with the hop pellets being exposed to the atmosphere in the fermenter for the few days before dry hopping. But if you are then you could get most of the way there by making a "bag" from plastic film and folding it over a magnet. Maybe the side from a quart ziploc bag.
By the way, if anyone has old hard drives lying around, those are a great source for super strong magnets.
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It seemed to be less of an issue when I fermented in glass carboys. I'd pop off the cap, drop in hops (or a cylindrical hops tube), close it back up. A small amount of air likely gets in, but with the small diameter mouth, probably not a lot.
I now use Brew Buckets and I'm more concerned taking off a 12" diameter lid, even if it's just a few seconds. I realize the CO2 in the headspace isn't really a "blanket," but it is close to a pure CO2 atmosphere due to the constant dilution effect during active fermentation. I hate to let in a bunch of air and have that sit in there several days during dry hopping. There's not much fermentation activity left to re-generate CO2. I'm not doing the full gamut of LODO procedures, but I'm trying to limit O2 exposure wherever I can. There is potential for an easy fix for this stage of the process.
Maybe somebody like SS Brewtech will develop a "LODO dry hopper" for their Brew Buckets and conicals. Perhaps some kind of hopper that attaches to the underside of the lid, with a release mechanism.
Meanwhile, I might try to find a way to kludge something that works. Lots of good ideas in this thread, and even if a few are kind of far-fetched, it all gets me thinking of this issue.
\
I couldn't decide whether to like this post or be appalled by it. Dissolving thread? Really?
So I went looking. Found this, which I think agrees with @Veets in that just a few inches of thread in 5 gallons of beer is likely meaningless:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/12504164/
And it's available on Amazon among other places:
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=polyvinyl+alcohol+thread&ref=nb_sb_noss_1
Homergah
Only I didn't say fudge
Off the top of my head, I can think of many uses for that dissolving thread. I gotta admit, using it for a hop drop is down on that list quite a way. I might end up divorced if I implemented any of them.
Seriously though, that is a good idea. (The hop dropper)
Seriously though, that is a good idea. (The hop dropper)
dlettow
Well-Known Member
Mason jar rings/bands are magnetic. Screw a lid on a 1/2 pint jar with the magnet on the outside like proposed. Pull magnet and the whole thing plops in. Costs nothing if already have jars and a strong magnet. Only thing I'm not sure of is the tin plated steel ring reacting with the wort. Is tin bad?
That and positive CO2 pressure being forced into the tank at the same time keeps all but a negligible amount out. That and the average dry hop port being a fraction of the size of a bucket lid.
My preferred method (harder to replicate at home) is to slurry dry hop. Hops go into a seperate vessel purged with CO2 or nitrogen (there are things made for this, but the cheap way is a yeast brink), beer from the tank is drawn in and the resulting slurry is shot back in with gas pressure. There's different ways of doing it (some devices will also recirc it afterwards), but the fermenter is never opened.
Added plus is it can be done with the tank under pressure.
I like this magnet idea. Dunno how much I trust it to be sanitary especially if something hinged is involved, plus the potential for krausen to seep in or gum up the works. Added headspace would solve the latter though.
Homergah
Only I didn't say fudge
We canned a lot in the past. Yes those rings could be a problem, maybe. I know after installing them they will rust sitting on the shelf in the shop after a month or two. They won't be in contact with beer very long, but it's a less hospitable environment in the fermentor.
thats why i'd think a flexible cup would be the lowest common denominator. if it works in a narrow neck, it'll work anywhere.
i think the effect on krauzen would be nil. if the foam is going to climb up over it then its gonna happen no matter what you do.
but yeah, you're gonna need some decent headspace in the vessel, no matter what type. might not be feasible after all if you need to find an 8gallon carboy.
i think the effect on krauzen would be nil. if the foam is going to climb up over it then its gonna happen no matter what you do.
but yeah, you're gonna need some decent headspace in the vessel, no matter what type. might not be feasible after all if you need to find an 8gallon carboy.
OP
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Tomorrow I'll start experimenting with magnets on my speidel lid. Each fermenter comes with its own challenges.
I like the flexible cup idea. It can be drawn up close to the sides to conform with the curvature of the vessel wall and keep the pellets from falling out before it's time. Silicone might be good, as it's neutral and can be sanitized. Cut a cup from one of those silicone muffin trays, then use magnets on both sides to hold the edges in place. This wouldn't be practical with carboys, due to the narrow neck, but it could work with plastic pail fermenters, Brew Buckets, and the like.
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Need to build the "Hopper" bucket lid, built into the underside of lid, through which CO2 passes, released by internet of things, phone app, solar powered solenoid.
No. Not solar powered. Keep that away from the fermenter.
No. Not solar powered. Keep that away from the fermenter.
OP
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Been experimenting with what's in the house.
Large tea leaf infuser! The one I have can hold about 4 oz. of pellets, but I think you can get larger.
On the Big mouth bubblers, two monofilament lines. One line attached at the top with a quick release knot. The other line tied stationary on the bottom. When the quick release is pulled, the cage is upside down. Just need to mark the line that's pulled.
The speidel lid is much easier. It seems to hold with a large magnet.
Large tea leaf infuser! The one I have can hold about 4 oz. of pellets, but I think you can get larger.
On the Big mouth bubblers, two monofilament lines. One line attached at the top with a quick release knot. The other line tied stationary on the bottom. When the quick release is pulled, the cage is upside down. Just need to mark the line that's pulled.
The speidel lid is much easier. It seems to hold with a large magnet.
Some breweries use these or versions of these:
https://marksdmw.com/products/mini-dry-hop-cannon
Attaches to a triclover butterfly valve on top of the conical. Purge....then open valve to drop them in.
Can I just say that I love these kinds of threads... identifying a problem and then brainstorming ways around it is a great part of homebrewing!
I have had mixed dry hopping results for this very reason.... I would tend to dry hop still with a few gravity points to go in my fermentation in order to prevent the effect of the additional oxygen going into the fermenter... but the flip side of this is that often the hops would be left in for too long.
Love all the ideas, but one post mentioned the problem of Krausen and this is going to impact a lot of the designs.
I'm trying to think if there's a way to have a second hole in the fermenter lid and then having something like a peppercorn grinder slotted into it... then when it's time to dry hop, just spin the grinder and have ground up hop pellets dropping into the beer... but then they'd just float maybe!?!
Maybe a similar kind of design but a cylinder fixed onto the top of the fermenter that opened when you spun the chamber somehow?
I have had mixed dry hopping results for this very reason.... I would tend to dry hop still with a few gravity points to go in my fermentation in order to prevent the effect of the additional oxygen going into the fermenter... but the flip side of this is that often the hops would be left in for too long.
Love all the ideas, but one post mentioned the problem of Krausen and this is going to impact a lot of the designs.
I'm trying to think if there's a way to have a second hole in the fermenter lid and then having something like a peppercorn grinder slotted into it... then when it's time to dry hop, just spin the grinder and have ground up hop pellets dropping into the beer... but then they'd just float maybe!?!
Maybe a similar kind of design but a cylinder fixed onto the top of the fermenter that opened when you spun the chamber somehow?
Well done!
This is an interesting approach, let me see if I understand the concept correctly, as I'm not very familiar with commercial brewing gear. This device holds the hops but is mounted atop the fermenter and the hops are then dumped in?
Maybe there's an adaptation that could be cobbled together for homebrewers. A vessel that holds the hops in an inert atmosphere (purged with CO2 or N2). The vessel has a valve on the bottom to drop the pellets into the fermenter. Could be fabricated from some large tubing--maybe PVC? Getting the valve part might be tricky. One would have to search places like Grainger, etc. to see if there is a reasonably priced butterfly valve.
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