No oxygen dry hopping

[Vale71]

I’m not remotely an expert but since CO2 is heavier than oxygen, I don’t understand where the oxygen introduction is really coming from in a meaningful way.

If you can open the port without disturbing the atmosphere both inside and outside of the fermentor then yes, you might not have any oxygen ingress. In reality that is practically impossible.
And the "CO2 is heavier than air" mantra has been beaten to death so often that it's been a decomposing, festering corpse for quite some time now...

 

[leesmith]

Yakima Chief got back to an email I sent them regarding keeping hops at room temperature and according to them:

“We recommend storing hops and hop pellets at 30-41f, but it is okay to put into freezer conditions as well. Oil and hop acid degradation is a spontaneous process which means that we can’t stop it from happening we can only slow the process by storage temperature, low O2 environment and no light exposure. Chemical kinetics generally tells us that chemical reaction rates double for every 10c or 18f. The rate of oil and hop acid degradation would quadruple at room temperature based on this general principle. We strongly recommend keeping the hop and hop pellets at cold temperatures until ready for use. Within a month a room temperature there would be evidence of degradation. Some individuals could probably detect and aroma difference within days (hours if they are sensitive to some odors).”

So my take on this is that...let’s say hops weren’t stored in transit very well...so by the time we get them they could be on that very edge of noticeable degradation. Then leaving them at room temp during fermentation could cause those fresh flavors and aromas to turn towards stale flavors and aromas.

To me being able to purge quickly at the appropriate pressure is ideal for this dry hopper idea we are all working on.

 

[Cape Brewing]

If you can open the port without disturbing the atmosphere both inside and outside of the fermentor then yes, you might not have any oxygen ingress. In reality that is practically impossible.
And the "CO2 is heavier than air" mantra has been beaten to death so often that it's been a decomposing, festering corpse for quite some time now...

If people want to geek out on gadgets, especially for this hobby (and profession), I’m absolutely, 100%, entirely behind it.

And as someone posted to someone else... effectively saying, “if you don’t think its a big deal, don’t bother trying it”... which I also agree with completely.

All of that said, I think a downside, especially on this site, is when someone without a lot of experience comes on, sees something like this, and thinks this is something they have to do in order to “get it right”.

As politely as possible I’m asking if there is any evidence, at all, that there is any difference, at all, between “normal dry hopping” and “CO2 dry hopping” results.

I’m going by my experience and DO test results from an end product and again, am simply asking if there is any evidence that this method makes any noticeable difference

If your argument is that the atmosphere is “disturbed” when you add hops and therefor a meaningful amount of oxygen is introduced, which then produces a negative characteristic that the human palate can detect... I politely asking to see any actual evidence of that.

Out of the 7,000 commercial breweries in the country, I am willing to bet about 6,800 of them use straight dry hopping and I think it would be interesting to know if they are all doing it wrong because there is ultimately a difference between the two.

 

[mongoose33]

I’m honestly curious whether it is or not.

I skimmed the thread so if someone posted it and I missed it, I honestly apologize... but I’m curious if anyone has done a side-by-side... or more importantly done a side-by-side DO test.

I own a small micro and we just dump in the hop port.

Intuitively... when you dump hops into a fermenter that is already full of CO2, they’re going to form nucleation points and off-gas even more CO2.

I’m not remotely an expert but since CO2 is heavier than oxygen, I don’t understand where the oxygen introduction is really coming from in a meaningful way.

Like I was saying, we just dump in through the hop port and we’ve had our cans pierced and tested for dissolved oxygen and they come back extremely low every time.

Again... not at all an expert. Honestly curious if there is any analytical data on it one way or the other.

There are several intertwined issues here. One is how much oxygen is too much....maybe a tiny bit, though oxidizing the beer, isn't perceptible and we're hitting a fly with a sledgehammer.

Another is actually how much is bad....most of us don't know that, so we're erring on the side of trying to keep it all out, or as much as possible.

The nucleation thing is interesting...however, producing a bit more CO2 will not eliminate any oxygen that enters with the hops. While CO2 is heavier than O2, there is no blanket of CO2 formed on the beer. The gases mix, even in a state of stillness, so the surface of the beer will be exposed to O2. Again, how much and would it matter?

There's also a time thing. Since hoppy beers exposed to O2 lose their vibrancy over time, clearly there's a time lag. If the beer is consumed before losing its vibrancy, or if just a tiny bit of O2, instead of a lot, enters with the hops and extends the time before vibrancy starts to fade....maybe it isn't a huge issue depending on how much.

As for me, there are three goals I have here, that not everybody would necessarily have. One is I'm trying to make the very best beer I possibly can, and I know O2 is counter to that in beer (not wort, that needs oxygen at the start). Two is I want to compare to other less-rigorous methods, see just how much a difference this makes to me and to others. Third is, well, it's fun to try to figure out ways to do this.

Everyone else's goals may be different.

 

[leesmith]

If people want to geek out on gadgets, especially for this hobby (and profession), I’m absolutely, 100%, entirely behind it.

And as someone posted to someone else... effectively saying, “if you don’t think its a big deal, don’t bother trying it”... which I also agree with completely.

All of that said, I think a downside, especially on this site, is when someone without a lot of experience comes on, sees something like this, and thinks this is something they have to do in order to “get it right”.

As politely as possible I’m asking if there is any evidence, at all, that there is any difference, at all, between “normal dry hopping” and “CO2 dry hopping” results.

I’m going by my experience and DO test results from an end product and again, am simply asking if there is any evidence that this method makes any noticeable difference

If your argument is that the atmosphere is “disturbed” when you add hops and therefor a meaningful amount of oxygen is introduced, which then produces a negative characteristic that the human palate can detect... I politely asking to see any actual evidence of that.

Out of the 7,000 commercial breweries in the country, I am willing to bet about 6,800 of them use straight dry hopping and I think it would be interesting to know if they are all doing it wrong because there is ultimately a difference between the two.

These guys have done a lot of research and their own experiments:
http://www.********************

As I understand some of their reasoning and approach...one advantage commercial breweries have over home brewers is the amount of surface area vs the volume of beer. It’s easier for home brewers to introduce o2 into their beer due to common homebrewing practices and equipment. By design most modern commercial breweries are made/function to reduce o2 in the final product.

That said...I agree with you...I’d love to see more research and can only tell you from my own experience in trying to eliminate o2 at every step my beer has improved in flavor and stability. The two are separate qualities but at times effect each other.

I also agree with your assessment of this site...I’ve been on both sides of that but thank good it’s a hobby and not my career. It’s one big discussion with many opinions and levels of experience.

I’m a firm believer one neglected/sloppy procedure doesn’t mess up a beer but an accumulation of many does. And I’m ok overdoing it until I find or realize I don’t need to do that particular step and still get good beer.

Maybe that website can help you find the evidence your looking for.

Also...as a side note...there are a lot of those 7000 breweries putting out sub par beer just like some homebrewers...probably more than 6800.

 

[Cape Brewing]

Thank you... that’s all I was asking about.


And agreed... there is a lot of sub par beer... but I’m skeptical it’s because of oxygen introduced during dry hopping.

 

[Qhrumphf]

There are several intertwined issues here. One is how much oxygen is too much....maybe a tiny bit, though oxidizing the beer, isn't perceptible and we're hitting a fly with a sledgehammer.

Another is actually how much is bad....most of us don't know that, so we're erring on the side of trying to keep it all out, or as much as possible.

The nucleation thing is interesting...however, producing a bit more CO2 will not eliminate any oxygen that enters with the hops. While CO2 is heavier than O2, there is no blanket of CO2 formed on the beer. The gases mix, even in a state of stillness, so the surface of the beer will be exposed to O2. Again, how much and would it matter?

There's also a time thing. Since hoppy beers exposed to O2 lose their vibrancy over time, clearly there's a time lag. If the beer is consumed before losing its vibrancy, or if just a tiny bit of O2, instead of a lot, enters with the hops and extends the time before vibrancy starts to fade....maybe it isn't a huge issue depending on how much.

As for me, there are three goals I have here, that not everybody would necessarily have. One is I'm trying to make the very best beer I possibly can, and I know O2 is counter to that in beer (not wort, that needs oxygen at the start). Two is I want to compare to other less-rigorous methods, see just how much a difference this makes to me and to others. Third is, well, it's fun to try to figure out ways to do this.

Everyone else's goals may be different.

I do not know what scale he's at, but nucleation at large scale produces a LOT of CO2- enough to *potentially* drive any oxygen on the headspace out and definitely prevent any from coming in, just like directly applying positive pressure.

But as I said, that also comes at the risk of a geyser. You can easily lose 10% beer volume to a dry hop geyser. It's something I've never heard of happening at homebrew scale.

And even then, there's still the time between opening the tank and when that CO2 is released.

So it's not something I'd rely on even if it worked.

Homebrew scale I definitely don't think there's enough released to make a difference.

 

[SEndorf]

As politely as possible I’m asking if there is any evidence, at all, that there is any difference, at all, between “normal dry hopping” and “CO2 dry hopping” results.

A fair question. There has been a great deal of research into the benefits of low oxygen brewing including an oxygen free environment at the end of fermentation and transfer.

At the end of fermentation you've gassed off the oxygen and have a nice CO2 environment. Then you open it up and add your dry hops. This is counterproductive to a closed transfer.

If you're going to the trouble of setting up a closed transfer to a purged keg, opening it up to dryhop seems to eliminate the benefit of that effort. (even though there is some residual gassing still occurring during dry hop).

The reason I started this thread was to come up with methods to dry hop without opening the fermenter. Some fantastic ideas here.

 

[Carolina_Matt]

Yakima Chief got back to an email I sent them regarding keeping hops at room temperature and according to them:

“We recommend storing hops and hop pellets at 30-41f, but it is okay to put into freezer conditions as well. Oil and hop acid degradation is a spontaneous process which means that we can’t stop it from happening we can only slow the process by storage temperature, low O2 environment and no light exposure. Chemical kinetics generally tells us that chemical reaction rates double for every 10c or 18f. The rate of oil and hop acid degradation would quadruple at room temperature based on this general principle. We strongly recommend keeping the hop and hop pellets at cold temperatures until ready for use. Within a month a room temperature there would be evidence of degradation. Some individuals could probably detect and aroma difference within days (hours if they are sensitive to some odors).”

So my take on this is that...let’s say hops weren’t stored in transit very well...so by the time we get them they could be on that very edge of noticeable degradation. Then leaving them at room temp during fermentation could cause those fresh flavors and aromas to turn towards stale flavors and aromas.

To me being able to purge quickly at the appropriate pressure is ideal for this dry hopper idea we are all working on.

That's an interesting response. They say it's 'okay' to use the freezer, but recommend the refrigerator. But they also say the lower temperatures are better. So wouldn't the freezer be the best way to store them?

 

[Cape Brewing]

A fair question. There has been a great deal of research into the benefits of low oxygen brewing including an oxygen free environment at the end of fermentation and transfer.

At the end of fermentation you've gassed off the oxygen and have a nice CO2 environment. Then you open it up and add your dry hops. This is counterproductive to a closed transfer.

If you're going to the trouble of setting up a closed transfer to a purged keg, opening it up to dryhop seems to eliminate the benefit of that effort. (even though there is some residual gassing still occurring during dry hop).

The reason I started this thread was to come up with methods to dry hop without opening the fermenter. Some fantastic ideas here.

I swear I’m not trying to be argumentative... just trying to discuss it.

I think low oxygen brewing is wider than what we’re taking about with this thread. I’m really focused on what the real risk is of “normal dry hopping” is. We use unitank and don’t transfer to brites so that eliminates that oxygen risk and like I have been saying, our DO has been tested a few times and came in extremely low each time.

Our batch sizes are 20 bbls and for some of our beers, our dry hops are very heavy. We’ve never had a geyser and EVERY dry hop we do creates nucleation and off-gassing. We close up the hop port and the airlocks have never not bubbled off like crazy immediately following a dry hop. We let it go for a few minutes and then spund the tanks.

Fantastic ideas? ABSOLUTELY. It’s one of the best, most fun, things about the hobby (other than the beer).... and that is seeing a problem to solve and then the engineering that goes into solving it. And there have been some really cool ideas on this thread.

What I’m trying to get to is quantifying what the actual benefit is of the method and my theory is still that there is no meaningful benefit. I’m not remotely crapping on people’s ideas. I’m not poo-pooing the ideas or the fun is going through the process. I am simply trying to see the benefit.

With that, I’ll shut up, sit quietly in the corner, keep an eye out and see what pops up.

 

[leesmith]

That's an interesting response. They say it's 'okay' to use the freezer, but recommend the refrigerator. But they also say the lower temperatures are better. So wouldn't the freezer be the best way to store them?

Yeah.
They just did a podcast on the brewing network....I think I posted a link earlier in the thread.
In it one of the Yakima guys recommends purging your vacuum seal bags a couple times, sealing, and then storing them at something like -80f. But says a freezer will do since most homebrewers don’t have that kind of freezer. Anyways the take away is treat the product with kid gloves.

I’m sure the rep I got isn’t versed in the same knowledge the guys have in the interview.

 

[Jag75]

I use a fast ferment. On my next IPA I will dump the collection ball On day 7. Then I will clean out the collection ball and set it a side. Then when it comes time to dry hop I will purge the collection ball with co2 and put the hops in it and attach it. Then I'll open up the valve, The beer will fill the collection ball releasing the hops .

 

[SEndorf]

I swear I’m not trying to be argumentative... just trying to discuss it.

Frankly, you're being a bit hard on yourself. I think we all welcome your comments here.

I think low oxygen brewing is wider than what we’re taking about with this thread.

Here I disagree. If you've committed to the idea of low oxygen brewing and no oxygen transfer, any small step in your process that fails renders your oxygen efforts useless. As an extreme example, you could pre-boil, use Metabisulfite, etc. then after all that, are you going to syphon your beer to an open keg? I look at opening the fermenter to dry hop as that 'one' failed step in this process.

That said, I of course agree with an earlier comment that there is not "one correct method" to make beer. If oxygen removal is not incorporated into your setup, it would seem rather silly to use some fancy dry hop method.

I’m really focused on what the real risk is of “normal dry hopping” is.

I don't see normal dry hopping as a "risk". Rather, the benefits of an alternative method would be comparative - IPA's being crisper and more aromatic for a longer period of time. For me, being consistent in my process is more important. That is, it seems ineffective to push my beer to keg via CO2 from a fermenter I've recently opened up to dry hop.

 

[Gravitysucks]

I've had some downtime while waiting on an electrician disconnect my old 60 amp fuse box and connect mains from the meter to my 200 amp panel which until now has been acting as a sub panel, long story, so I can finish up my beer area so I decided to see what Kind of dry hopping gizmo I could come up with. I based it on the hop cannon that @leesmith posted a picture of a few pages back which I had seen a while back being used at 8:28in this video.



Here's a picture of what I came up with.

Excuse the cardboard pressure gauge. I made a template before I ordered a real one just to be sure there wouldn't be any clearance issues with the gas post fitting. The hopper is a 3"x1.5" offset reducer which I chose to avoid issues with clearance with the butterfly valve handle. Behind the fake pressure gauge is a purge valve with a barb fitting which I suppose could be used as a blow off, hooked up to a keg to purge it with co2 during fermentation, or just closed if I want to ferment under pressure. The Spike manifold is just sitting on a blank cap at the moment but is about where it will be once I get my cooling coil with the added TC back from the welder.

I figure when it comes time to dry hop you could put your hops in the hopper, crack the butterfly valve as @mongoose mentioned, open the purge valve and let the co2 in the fermenter purge the o2 from the hopper (as long as you maintained some pressure in the fermenter). Once this was done you close all the valves, pressurize the hopper, then open the butterfly valve and blow the hops into the fermenter. I expect some experimentation with pressures will be required to deal with the hop bridging problem mongoose mentioned but I don't expect it will require much. Someone also mentioned geyser possibilities but I'm hoping by adding pressure to the fermenter as the hops are going in this won't be a problem. We'll see.

 

[perolavfk]

I've had some downtime while waiting on an electrician disconnect my old 60 amp fuse box and connect mains from the meter to my 200 amp panel which until now has been acting as a sub panel, long story, so I can finish up my beer area so I decided to see what Kind of dry hopping gizmo I could come up with. I based it on the hop cannon that @leesmith posted a picture of a few pages back which I had seen a while back being used at 8:28in this video.



Here's a picture of what I came up with.
View attachment 618900
Excuse the cardboard pressure gauge. I made a template before I ordered a real one just to be sure there wouldn't be any clearance issues with the gas post fitting. The hopper is a 3"x1.5" offset reducer which I chose to avoid issues with clearance with the butterfly valve handle. Behind the fake pressure gauge is a purge valve with a barb fitting which I suppose could be used as a blow off, hooked up to a keg to purge it with co2 during fermentation, or just closed if I want to ferment under pressure. The Spike manifold is just sitting on a blank cap at the moment but is about where it will be once I get my cooling coil with the added TC back from the welder.

I figure when it comes time to dry hop you could put your hops in the hopper, crack the butterfly valve as @mongoose mentioned, open the purge valve and let the co2 in the fermenter purge the o2 from the hopper (as long as you maintained some pressure in the fermenter). Once this was done you close all the valves, pressurize the hopper, then open the butterfly valve and blow the hops into the fermenter. I expect some experimentation with pressures will be required to deal with the hop bridging problem mongoose mentioned but I don't expect it will require much. Someone also mentioned geyser possibilities but I'm hoping by adding pressure to the fermenter as the hops are going in this won't be a problem. We'll see.

Looks a lot like this guy's take on it?

 

[Vale71]

I hate Scandinavian languages. I get the feeling I should understand what is being said but actually cannot. It's unnerving...

That setup is just plain dangerous. One must never set up a safety features such as, in this case, the PRV in a way that it could be disabled through user error. If the possibility exists someday it's actually going to happen, it's just a matter of time. In this case he just needs to leave the 3" valve in the closed position and he has removed one important safety feature that might one day save him from bodily harm. Definitely don't do this at home.

 

[Gravitysucks]

I hate Scandinavian languages. I get the feeling I should understand what is being said but actually cannot. It's unnerving...

That setup is just plain dangerous. One must never set up a safety features such as, in this case, the PRV in a way that it could be disabled through user error. If the possibility exists someday it's actually going to happen, it's just a matter of time. In this case he just needs to leave the 3" valve in the closed position and he has removed one important safety feature that might one day save him from bodily harm. Definitely don't do this at home.

The way I have mine set up the manifold that is connected to the 4" TC cap on the fermenter lid has a 15lbs PRV and it is never removed so there's no danger of over pressurizing the fermenter. Since my plan was to purge some of the co2 pressure from the fermenter out through the hop hopper to deal with the o2 I figured I would only need a few pounds pressure differential between the hopper and the fermenter to push the hops into the tank. That's why I have a pressure gauge on both the hopper and the fermenter. I had thought about adding a PRV to the hopper when I threw it together but I only had one 1/4" NPT tee and just wanted to see if everything was going to fit on the 3" hopper cap. It would be easy enough to tee off the port that the gas post is threaded to and add a PRV for the hopper. The 3" TC cap on the hopper has a fine mesh screen gasket so there shouldn't be an issue with hops plugging the PRV or the gauge if I did go that route. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[Vale71]

The way I have mine set up the manifold that is connected to the 4" TC cap on the fermenter lid has a 15lbs PRV and it is never removed so there's no danger of over pressurizing the fermenter.

 

[leesmith]

I hate Scandinavian languages. I get the feeling I should understand what is being said but actually cannot. It's unnerving...

That setup is just plain dangerous. One must never set up a safety features such as, in this case, the PRV in a way that it could be disabled through user error. If the possibility exists someday it's actually going to happen, it's just a matter of time. In this case he just needs to leave the 3" valve in the closed position and he has removed one important safety feature that might one day save him from bodily harm. Definitely don't do this at home.

I hear yah on the safety thing.

Maybe (overkill) the dry hopper could be made so you can purge it before attaching it to the fermenter...in order to help prevent over pressurizing.

This very concern is why I’d like to figure out a way to do this in a keg...which I ferment in now. Using a lid with a port welded to it could allow a greater level of safety. Possibly.

 

[CJWAU]

I hate Scandinavian languages. I get the feeling I should understand what is being said but actually cannot. It's unnerving...

That setup is just plain dangerous. One must never set up a safety features such as, in this case, the PRV in a way that it could be disabled through user error. If the possibility exists someday it's actually going to happen, it's just a matter of time. In this case he just needs to leave the 3" valve in the closed position and he has removed one important safety feature that might one day save him from bodily harm. Definitely don't do this at home.

While the PRV was isolated, the spunding valve was still there.

 

[Vale71]

While the PRV was isolated, the spunding valve was still there.

A spunding valve can be turned all the way shut, hence it is NOT a safety valve and cannot replace a real PRV.

 

[Gravitysucks]

After the posts about PRVs I decided to make a few changes to my hop hopper. Probably overkill but better safe than sorry. I added a second Spike manifold to the cap of the hopper so there is now a PRV on both the hopper and the tank. You can't see it in the picture but there is still a ball valve behind the manifold that can be use as a blow off. I also added a short 3" spool to increase the hop capacity a bit. My cooling coil is still at the welders but is supposed to be ready soon.
I just hope can just get the electrician to show up soon so I can actually brew something before boredom leads me to make any more changes. Boredom can be expensive.

 

[Vale71]

 

[SEndorf]

@Gravitysucks How much height is added to your Spike from your hop hopper?
I'm still planning my conical purchase. Not sure if my fridge will accommodate.

 

[RCope]

So an update on my low tech hop drop bag... I brewed my "ACME" NEIPA (Azacca, Citra, Mosaic, Ekuanot) and had a planned 4 oz dry hop post-ferm of citra and mosaic. So I tried my hop dropper bag and it seemed to work well...until I looked into the fermentor and saw that about 50% dropped immediately. So I guess dog food is denser than hop pellets... who knew? I just need a bigger hop bag to keep the hops restrained...I have a Medusa/Ekuanot IPA, "All About ME" up next, so I'll give it another try.

 

[Gravitysucks]

@Gravitysucks How much height is added to your Spike from your hop hopper?
I'm still planning my conical purchase. Not sure if my fridge will accommodate.

Mine has castors on it and with those it is just about 51" (129.5cm) tall. If you use the adjustable feet it would be about 49". Removing the spool I added to the reducer would lower it another 2" to 47". The hopper with the butterfly valve is 14.5" (36.8cm) tall.

 

[Gravitysucks]

I got my Spike cooling coil back from the welder this week with the new TC port and did some pressure testing tonight. With no pressure in the hopper or the fermenter I did get bridging of the hops on one try but moving the butterfly valve back and forth a bit cleared it. Once there was a couple of pounds of pressure difference between the hopper and the tank (higher in the hopper) the hops pushed into the tank every time. Venting co2 pressure from the fermenter out through the hopper to purge o2 from the hops looks like it will work also. It remains to be seen if it will actually make any difference to the beer and there's probably cheaper ways to alleviate o2 during dry hopping but it was a fun project so I'm happy and looking forward to trying it out.

 

[VirginiaHops1]

I've been brewing a year and have become more and more obsessive about O2 minimization, since I brew mainly very hoppy IPAs. The obsessiveness is paying off though, because the more I work to prevent it the better my IPAs taste. When I was fermenting in Better Bottles I did closed transfers, but my dry hopping still left a lot to be desired because I felt like it exposed the beer too much. I tried using a keg to dry hop in, but what I've moved to now is fermenting in kegs, and either dry hopping in primary or transferring to a dry hop keg purged from fermentation and dry hopping there. They've been hugely successful and I've gotten massive fresh hop aroma from these beers that I've never had before.

Anyways, typically I blast CO2 into the gas post while I open the top of the keg to dump hops in. This seems to work ok and the counter-pressure should seemingly keep most of the O2 out, but I still wonder how much is getting in due to turbulence and gases mixing and I usually spill some hops because the opening isn't too wide. Enter the latest batch. This time I loaded the dry hops into the dry hop keg at the beginning of fermentation, so I won't need to open anything the whole time. I know there has been discussion in this thread about hop degradation from sitting at room temp too long, so I'm looking forward to seeing how this one stacks up to my previous keg fermented batches which had the biggest hop flavor/aroma I've been able to achieve thus far.

 

[Jako]

Wait........this is a real idea...I thought it was a joke.....good luck with your crane dropping hops.

Overthinking has reached an all time high

i had the same thought. in my experience dry hopping the hops will kick up some co2 and blow it off. it so little i cant see it having an effect unless it was storing beer for the end of times. i drink beer in 4 weeks at the very most.

 

[jturman35]

OK, here's some further work on this. Ordered a sight glass for 1.5 TC as well as a butterfly valve. Easy to install on the port on the Spike's lid.

I did some testing with this--the only issue is bridging of the hop pellets. Once they dropped as expected, another time I had to work the valve back and forth to get them to drop, another time I had to open the valve and then knock on the side of the sight glass to get them to drop. I had 2 1/2 ounces of hops in there, 3 ounces would fit, 4 might be an issue.

I had concluded I needed a sight glass to ensure the hops had in fact dropped into the wort. I checked and I can crack open the butterfly valve a bit to allow gas to escape out of the manifold, so that should work.

Next time I'm dry hopping in the fermenter, I'm using this. I'll report on it, but it'll be a while yet. I just brewed a beer today which is occupying the fermenter; not sure what the next one will be.

View attachment 618335 View attachment 618334 View attachment 618333

How did this work out? I have this same conical and attachments already.

 

[mongoose33]

How did this work out? I have this same conical and attachments already.

Haven't done it yet, but it's the next beer on the schedule. My dark lager is currently occupying the fermenter and I won't have it cleared until late next week, maybe not til the weekend.

I'll report here when I do it.

 

[Gravitysucks]

Hopefully closed systems like folks on here have been putting together will keep this from happening...

 

[cubsfan16]

How did this work out? I have this same conical and attachments already.

I just ordered another sight glass to put the exact same setup together on my Spike unitank. Curious, do you know how many ounces of pellets will fit in the sight glass?

EDIT - sorry, read in a previous post 3-4oz

 

[mongoose33]

OK, time to report! Finally had a chance to try out the butterfly valve/sight glass/pressure manifold thing to introduce dry hopping hops, and I'm pleased to report that....it worked!

Here's a short video showing how it went down:

 

[SEndorf]

Excellent! Now I know what additional items to purchase for the conical.
Thanks for the update!

 

[jturman35]

Thanks Mongoose! How many ounces did you get the site glass to hold?

 

[mongoose33]

Thanks Mongoose! How many ounces did you get the site glass to hold?

It only held 3 ounces, could have maybe gotten another half ounce in there. I had 4 ounces to dry hop with, so I sealed it up again, added the 4th ounce, allowed to purge the hops, then dumped that in.

 

[Bassman2003]

I love the spirit in this thread. Making stuff to solve homebrewing problems is a fun part of the hobby. I have moved to the closed transfer/keg purge with sanitizer approach and can not think of a good way to get the hops in without ruining the whole purpose of a closed transfer. If you throw a bag in before you will end up with sanitizer hops. What to do? Hop tea?

So if you/we could solve this problem it would quite a great thing!

 

[mongoose33]

I love the spirit in this thread. Making stuff to solve homebrewing problems is a fun part of the hobby. I have moved to the closed transfer/keg purge with sanitizer approach and can not think of a good way to get the hops in without ruining the whole purpose of a closed transfer. If you throw a bag in before you will end up with sanitizer hops. What to do? Hop tea?

So if you/we could solve this problem it would quite a great thing!

How about this? Purge the keg. Get the sanitizer out of there as much as you can--and you can get virtually all of it out.

Depressurize. Add hops. Preferred way probably a hop bag suspended from lid to keep them out of the beer until it fills. Reseal. Then run the CO2 from the fermenter, which is pure CO2, into the keg with the hops in it. This gets you a sealed, purged keg w/ hops in it. Rack the beer onto the hops, under some pressure and using a spunding valve to keep down the foam.

*******

A fermentation will produce about 1 volume of CO2 for each 2 points of gravity. You can actually use the output from a fermentation, if you're dropping by about 50 points, to completely purge a keg.

Interesting fact #307.

 

[Bassman2003]

Thanks for your reply but I see a couple of holes:

1) Opening the keg and adding the hops defeats the purpose of purging in a way. Maybe a quick lid opening is not that bad but in theory O2 gets in.

2) Why would you need to suspend the hops when a transfer to the keg will be for spunding or just force carb? Either way the fermentation is largely finished at this point.

3) I ferment in a wine fridge so there is no way to run anything from the fermenter. I could just open the lid, drop the hop bag and purge again with tank CO2 but I am not convinced the oxygen would be pushed out given the way gasses mix.

Since I am spunding, maybe the residual fermentation would eat up most of the oxygen from the lid opening and we can just call it a day? It is a conundrum with the use of corny kegs that were not designed for this use. Maybe a little O2 just has to lived with for dry hopping at the homebrew level?