No matter what it seems "watery"?

[gkeusch]

So...I've been doing all grain for a few years and think I have been making progress, but, every time I taste my latest attempt I get the impression that my beer is slightly "watery". That seems to be the best way I can describe it. It is pretty subtle - my friends say it tastes pretty good, and I agree it isn't bad - it gets drunk, anyway. It just doesn't seem to have the full body I want. My typical approach is a 10 lb. mash of pale malt - I don't catalog gravities like I should but I believe I'm doing the mash and laughter stages reasonable well, and I use a full boil of at least 45 minutes with various hop trials.

At first I blamed dried yeast, so last time I popped for a vial of liquid yeast, even made a starter, and hoped that would make a difference but much to my chagrin it did not.

So what should I look at next? I use "city" water, which were I live tastes pretty good but maybe it is a little hard - could that be my problem? Or do I simply need more fermentables? Most recipes I look at rarely call for more than 10# in any combination, so I thought that should yield good body?

I seek wise counsel; but you guys are the best I got

 

[HawksBrewer]

If you want to add a little body you could always throw some carapils in the mix.

 

[Nohup]

Overpitching perhaps?
When I went to larger batches in a single fermenter, I started rounding upwards on the packets of dry yeast I used. I noticed that things started tasting a little thinner than usual. dropped down to 2 packets, and the body came back.

Have you made any changes to fermenter size? Or pitching rates lately?

 

[gkeusch]

No, same old bucket, but, again, I did go to the liquid yeast. but even with the dried yeast I've had this problem....

 

[brewhappy]

I would run your water through a carbon filter. You can get one cheap on more beer.

Thin/watery beer typically needs more unfermentable dextrins. You can add carapils, or other crystal malts. You can also add some wheat, flaked oats or flaked barley.

You can also mash at a higher temperature. 154 and up will give you a less fermentable wort which will leave more dextrins in the beer.

I would guess the issues is most likely grain bill selection or mash temperature.

 

[Clann]

Is your thermometer accurate?

 

[thisoneguy]

I don't catalog gravities like I should but I believe I'm doing the mash and laughter stages reasonable well

It's probably worth keeping track of gravities. It could be something as simple as your beer finishing lower than intended because your temps are dropping during the mash. Maybe you aren't getting full conversion in the mash, either.

 

[terrapinj]

do you use just pale malt? any specialty grains?

what mash temp?

does your beer seem sufficiently carbonated?

 

[hopcop]

What's your grain/water ratio? Sparge amount and temp? Boil off ratio? Only a 45 min boil seems short to me but I could be wrong. I always go at least 60mins sometimes 90. I have a brew that's gonna boil for 120mins.

I would recommend taking gravity readings so you know where your starting and finishing. If its low then your mouthfeel will be thin. Just my two cents if this helps.

 

[Clann]

Low OG does not mean the brew will be watery.

 

[Piratwolf]

You can also mash at a higher temperature. 154 and up will give you a less fermentable wort which will leave more dextrins in the beer.

This! X10000

 

[Hanso]

Agreed mash temp and insufficient grain crush are the likely culprits. Take readings for sure and know your mash temps.

 

[lumpher]

dry yeast has nothing to do with it. i've been brewing for years with dry, and have no problems with it. what temps do you maintain while you mash? i usually mash 150-152, depending on what i'm making. if i want to make a dry ale, i mash at 148; heavier beers get 154

 

[gkeusch]

thanks for all the responses. To answer a few of the questions, I shoot for a srike temp in my cooler of 153 F (usually end up nearer 155 at the start), I use 3 gallons (12 quarts) water for 10#. I use another 3 gallons to sparge (you might be guessing my hot liquor tank is only 3 gallons; you might be right I carbonate with 5/8 cup CS which seems to give me nice consistent carbonation.

I am sticking with straight pale malt bill for now because I figured I should first be able to make an excellent beer with that, then I know I have all the basics correct and then I can start to get creative.

It is clear from the responses (I think) that attenuation is the key and I need to focus on that and start getting serious about gravity measurements. Something I should have been doing anyway.

Thanks again.

 

[Coldies]

thanks for all the responses. To answer a few of the questions, I shoot for a srike temp in my cooler of 153 F (usually end up nearer 155 at the start),Thanks again.

There is your problem right there. If your strike temp is 153 your probably mashing at 140-143 or lower depending on your system. Look up "Green bay Mashers" mash temp calculator and it will tell you what your strike temp should be depending on what temp you want to mash at.

 

[gkeusch]

Oops! wrong terminology. My strike temp is usually about 171, giving me an initial mash temp in the low 150's. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[brewhappy]

thanks for all the responses.

I am sticking with straight pale malt bill for now because I figured I should first be able to make an excellent beer with that, then I know I have all the basics correct and then I can start to get creative.

Thanks again.

So are you following a recipe? I can't imagine not following a recipe of some kind. I don't know of any beer that is made with just pale malt. I guess a cream ale or kolsch or something like that would be possible but those really light beers are actually more difficult to make than an amber, esb, or pale ale. There are plenty of basic easy recipes on this site and others and plenty of good books with tips and recipes. John Palmer's How to Brew is an excellent book and Jamil's Brewing Classic Styles book has solid recipes for most styles.

Also do make sure your mash temp is at 153 and not just your strike temp. You can calculate your strike temp easily with an online calculator that will figure out the proper stike temp based on the grain temp and weight, and the desired mash temp.

You do want to take at least a pre boil gravity, starting gravity and final gravity reading. The pre boil gravity will help you asses how much sugar you extracted out of your grain and just give you a general idea of how the mash went.

I'd say just find an easy recipe next time and make sure your mash temp is correct and you should have much better results.

 

[gkeusch]

Yes, I know that's true, I was just trying to eliminate variables. guess that doesn't work in brewing

Thanks for your reply.

 

[thisoneguy]

Another thing I just thought of... are you sure your temp isn't dropping a lot during the mash? Before I added some extra insulation to my cooler MLT, I lost around 6 degrees over the 60 minutes IIRC. I solved that problem by using some foam insulation in the lid and covering it with blankets.

 

[Mikethepoolguy]

Add 1/2 to 1 lb. Carapils and get a second, different thermometer to compare temps.

 

[gkeusch]

It seems like the cooler holds pretty good - I think I lose no more than 3 or 4degrees during the mash. I already use two thermometers to check temps - the floating beer thermometer I bought, I finally figured out that, because of the ballast at the bottom there is a delay in getting a stable reading in the mash tun, so I also use another one.

I'll give the carapils a shot - several responses have suggested that, thanks.

 

[terrapinj]

any crystal malt will help give you more dextrins and body - i'd def consider adding some other grains to your grain bills

if you want to stick to simple single malt grain bills try some other base malts

marris otter, golden promise, vienna, munich, etc

 

[jaba]

Batch or fly sparge? Do you mashout?

 

[passedpawn]

Next grain bill use 10% carapils / carafoam / dextrine malt. It will cure your problem. Money back guarantee.

And like terrapinj said above, you could also use any caramel/crystal malt to add body and sweetness. As the lovibond numbers increase, they go from bready-sweet to raisiny-sweet.

I know I'm just repeating other's comments, but sometimes that's important. Good luck.

 

[Rev2010]

Can I ask, you said you sparge with only 3 gallons of water... is that total? I typically double batch sparge with total starting volume around 4.5-4.7 gallons, meaning of course half that volume for each sparge. This also depends on the grain bill and such but 3 gallons, if that is all you are using, will leave behind a good amount of wort. If you really only use 3 gallons and that's it well then that is certainly a problem and IMO would be what you should correct and would probably alleviate the problem. That said, dude... you gotta record your gravity's!!


Rev.

 

[jaba]

Can I ask, you said you sparge with only 3 gallons of water... is that total? I typically double batch sparge with total starting volume around 4.5-4.7 gallons, meaning of course half that volume for each sparge. This also depends on the grain bill and such but 3 gallons, if that is all you are using, will leave behind a good amount of wort. If you really only use 3 gallons and that's it well then that is certainly a problem and IMO would be what you should correct and would probably alleviate the problem. That said, dude... you gotta record your gravity's!!


Rev.

If this is the case, he may want to check out this post

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/mi...temps-still-only-got-60-a-176566/#post2044305

This is how I sparge, always get great efficiency with this method.