No distilled water available & I want to brew

[nyer]

Just like the title says, even if I could find the water most places are only letting you buy two jugs and I need about 9 gallons. My water at home is not the greatest but I would still like to try to brew something I am bored to death. I have the ingredients for the following recipes available, NEIPA, hoppy lager or the rye Kentucky rye on here (kiss yer cousin).
This is my water report without using a carbon filter. What would you do?

PH 8.4

Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est, ppm 431

Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 0.72

Cations / Anions, me/L 5.6 / 5.7

ppm

Sodium, Na 73

Potassium, K 2

Calcium, Ca 32

Magnesium, Mg 9

Total Hardness, CaCO3 118

Nitrate, NO3-N 0.5 (SAFE)

Sulfate, SO4-S 32

Chloride, Cl 100

Carbonate, CO3 < 1.0

Bicarbonate, HCO3 49

Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 42

Total Phosphorus, P < 0.01

Total Iron, Fe < 0.01

"<" - Not Detected / Below Detection Limit

 

[TheMadKing]

I would go bypass my water softener, add some lactic acid to my water, preboil it, transfer the water to a bucket, clean out the precipitant, and then brew a stout

Your high sodium chloride content looks like the water after it's been passed through a softener so that's the first thing to check.

After that you need to remove some of the mineral content of your water which can be done by preboiling and treatment with acid and campden for chloride.

With mineral content that high, you'll be best served brewing a style that has traditionally been brewed with hard water (stout). Anything with a high proportion of dark malt should do ok.

The most important thing is to get rid of all that sodium and especially the chloride.

 

[nyer]

I dont have a water softener, that is straight out of the tap. I also don't have any other ingredients and no access to them for awhile. I ordered the ingredients for those three beers right before the virus fiasco and now can't get water. If I have to I just wont brew again until water is available. I never have this much free time so I was hoping to make something but dont want to make something that isnt correct.

 

[McKnuckle]

You can make your own distilled water, about one gallon at a time. This is how I get brewing water, albeit my batch sizes are small, so I only need about 4 gallons at a time. It takes a day or two to make that much, so just a little bit of planning is required - not a big deal.

I have horrible well water that's extremely hard and slightly discolored. We have an elaborate softener and UV system, plus plastic plumbing in as much of the house as practical, but we rely on Poland Spring deliveries for drinking.

Anyway, for brewing, the distiller reliably nullifies all of this. Plus it can be used for other applications around the home.

http://www.h2olabs.com/p-50-conveni...water-distiller-with-easy-fill-reservior.aspx

 

[TheMadKing]

I dont have a water softener, that is straight out of the tap. I also don't have any other ingredients and no access to them for awhile. I ordered the ingredients for those three beers right before the virus fiasco and now can't get water. If I have to I just wont brew again until water is available. I never have this much free time so I was hoping to make something but dont want to make something that isnt correct.

I see from your location that you live on an island, so the salt makes a little more sense now.

Do you have access to a walmart or and REI? It would be slow but you could get yourself a Sawyer backpacking water filter thats 0.1 micron reverse osmosis. It would be slow but it should help. A charcoal filter might also help as well if you can find one.

Preboiling is really the way to go I think. It should reduce your mineral content to a manageable level, but you still need to get rid of that chloride, so campden (potassium metabisulfide) is an absolute must.

 

[nyer]

I have Camden tablets and a whole house charcoal filter that I can hook up a faucet. I know my water sucks but even if I can clean it up I'm not sure what numbers to put into Brewer's Friend to correct for pH and style.

 

[TheMadKing]

I have Camden tablets and a whole house charcoal filter that I can hook up a faucet. I know my water sucks but even if I can clean it up I'm not sure what numbers to put into Brewer's Friend to correct for pH and style.

Yeah you'll really just be guessing - you'll need to change your mindset from "precision homebrewing" to "utility brewing" I think.

If you can neutralize the chloride and preboil, I think you could probably get away with just adding 2-4 mL of 88% lactic to your mash and crossing your fingers. Of all the things to worry about, mash pH is at the lower end of the scale and you can still make good beer even if your mash pH is wonky. Getting rid of the chloride should be top priority, and beyond that you should make drinkable beer just fine - especially if it's hoppy.

Some of the world's famous beer styles happened because of people brewing with bad water - you might be on the cusp of an innovation!

 

[Dustin_J]

Preboiling isn't going to do much to lower sodium or chloride is it? But, it'll drop the Calcium down to really low levels as there's not much there to start with.

I'd probably just use the water as is and brew the NEIPA recipe. Na is a little high, but not ridiculous, especially with reasonable sulfate levels. 100ppm Chloride is just fine for this style, in fact you may even want to bump it up some. Something like 75ppm Sulfate (edit - you're at about 90, which is A-ok) and 150ppm Chloride would be just fine. Adding calcium, of course, would drop your mash pH some, but that might be ok too depending on the recipe.

For example, a quick run in Bru'n water gave an estimated mash pH in the ~5.6 - 5.65 range with that water, a full volume mash, and a "generic" NEIPA malt bill of 11 lb (78%) 2-row, 2.5 lb (18%) wheat, and .5 lb (~4 %) Crystal 10 for a 5-6 gal batch. In this case, you'd want to add something to drop your pH a bit, either acid or more calcium (probably a little of both) - as mentioned above. It depends on the recipe, of course, but if you're willing to share it (along with a little more on your process) I'd be happy to run it through Bru'n water for an educated guess for you.

 

[mongoose33]

I dont have a water softener, that is straight out of the tap. I also don't have any other ingredients and no access to them for awhile. I ordered the ingredients for those three beers right before the virus fiasco and now can't get water. If I have to I just wont brew again until water is available. I never have this much free time so I was hoping to make something but dont want to make something that isnt correct.

Your water is similar to mine. While this isn't a direct answer to your question, perhaps it's time to consider a Reverse Osmosis system. If you brew often, you can pay that back in pretty quick order. There are advantages:

1. You have it when you need it.

2. It's cheaper than store-bought.

3. No schlepping water.

4. RO water can be used in appliances like coffee makers--no scale buildup! I have a Keurig at work, have fed it with RO water for 2 years now, and never have I had to clean it.

5. If you keep the jugs that held distilledwater, you can refill them with RO water and have even more stored up. Don't use milk jugs--they can't be fully cleaned.


Disadvantages:

1. Takes time to make RO water, several hours depending on the rating of the particular unit.

2. You need a way to store the water, or you have to set it up to fill your kettle, if space and circumstances allow.

3. You may need to do some special plumbing for it to work, though that's a maybe. You can feed such a system off a normal faucet if it accepts a garden-hose adapter. Or off an outside hose bib, feeding the unit with a potable water hose (the white ones people use when they connect their RVs).

4. You have to pay up front.

A few pics are attached. This is not the only way to do this. Some people have a system that has a small tank under their sink so they can get a couple gallons at a time, but you need more than that.

I worked with Russ from Buckeye Hydro, because I was sure of getting exactly what I needed. You can find cheaper systems but then...the support is what it is.

Mine cost, in today's money, probably $170. I bought a Total Dissolved Solids meter to check the output, too. I was paying something like 80 cents a gallon for RO water from Wal-Mart (no, they had no bulk water system for me to use). So if I needed 7 gallons, it was $5.60 each time to get water, plus the time and gasoline cost of getting it. I only had to use my system about 31 times to recover the cost of the system. I'm up to batch 82 on the system, so you can see that I'm now making a "profit" on it.

I originally attached mine to the wall above my garage sink; I could also have attached it to a wooden "caddie" where I could have moved it to storage in between uses. I wanted it to be portable in case the garage temps dropped below freezing, but as it turns out, I've never had to move it.

I originally fed it using the faucet on the sink. I've since mounted it more or less permanently under the sink, and had a dedicated line to feed it. (Turns out it works somewhat better using softened water, so if you have it, feed it softened water).

I deposit the RO water in a 7-gallon Aquatainer, and from that, I also fill jugs so that at any time, I have about 22 gallons of RO water available. Some of the jugs go to my office for my Keurig, the rest are there in case I do a double-batch and just as a backup supply.

So, factor all that in, see what else might move you in one direction or another.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

For 9 gallons of your tap water, this might appear strange, but I would add 1.25 grams of calcium hydroxide (pickling lime) and 50 mL of 10% phosphoric acid and half a crushed Campden tablet to it and get brewing.

 

[gunhaus]

Use this as a learning opportunity. Brew one - heck brew them all. It is doubtful any would be undrinkable, and you may end up with something spectacular! But more importantly it is a chance to let the BEER tell you what it needs rather than letting a computer program tell you what you think the beer needs. This is just cooking after all - it is a chance to learn to season!

If the hops are weak you can add A B or C
If the malt is weak add B or C
Too sweet do this
Too bitter do this.

This website alone of filled with info on what to add to enhance or denote specific traits! Just ditch the tech for a couple batches and pretend we live in the good old days before the internet and water science was in vented and all we had to go on was if it tasted good or not.

I myself still brew a couple of malt forward low IBU pale beers with water from my mothers well. These beers are spectacular and have been since the 80's. Her water does not make really good hoppy beers, or even a good old bitter. And, dark beers like stouts and porters are flat, bland and almost taste oxidized with her untreated water. But for a specific range of malty pale to amber beers with low hop rates it is really really good. I don't have a water report on it and never will - Don't need it. At home I use RO water and build my water for most beers.

A lot of good beer was made before computer programs told us what to do and how to think - And you said your bored and want something to do. So go do it.

Or not - it is a semi-free world!!!!!

 

[bierhaus15]

Your water isn't that bad, the Na is a touch high for lighter styles, but really there are going to be so many other process variables that will impact the flavor more so than the sodium. Sulfate as S04 would be around 95 ppm. Honestly, for most IPA's, hazy or otherwise, acidify with some lactic and a touch of CaS04 or CaCl2 to get the Ca up and you're in a good position.

 

[tellyho]

I brewed tasty beers for 13 years without doing anything to my water. Go ahead and brew. The water chemistry makes it better, but not that much, IMO.

 

[nyer]

Well, now you all got me interested. The Neipa I want to do is braufessors recipe on here. I also do ebiab with an electric clawhammer. Would it be wise to not filter the water so that I what minerals I'm dealing with? When I switched to building my own water all my beer improved.

 

[VTX1300]

I am on board with what mongoose33 said. invest in an RO system! after brewing for 2 years hauling distilled water from my local grocery (if they had that much in stock) I purchased an inexpensive RO system and wish i would have much sooner. My system paid for itself after about 10 brews with how much i was paying for distilled. I have found many other uses for my RO than just brewing. Our tap water is just awful so I use RO for drinking with minerals added in for taste.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

I think he's asking for advice related to making his existing water suitable for brewing right now, rather than advice as to what needs to be done down the road.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

I brewed tasty beers for 13 years without doing anything to my water. Go ahead and brew. The water chemistry makes it better, but not that much, IMO.

You might not be quite as inclined to be saying this if you had lousy brewing water. Therefore what has worked for you for 13 years may have no relevance with regard to what might or might not work for others with different water analyticals.

 

[madscientist451]

Try catching some rain water?.
I checked your local Home Depot and they have RO systems in stock.
A small system would be fine for brewing.
Eventually, you'd get your money back by not having to buy distilled water anymore.

 

[NTexBrewer]

Have you looked for RO water stores or the Ice and Water stations that are usually in strip mall parking lots? A lot of these have self service water stations that you can fill up your own container. These may not be the best sources but they should be better then your existing water.

 

[nyer]

I am not real interested in running out to buy a new water system. I am trying to get by with what I have while this virus is going around. Maybe down the road but not right now.

 

[Diomed12]

Many aquarium stores sell RO water by the gallon so that may be worth investigating.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Your water is a bit deficient in calcium, but sulfate and chloride are both ~100 ppm, so you don't want to be boosting those two in the process of adding calcium. That's why I suggested boosting calcium via adding calcium hydroxide plus phosphoric acid to neutralize the hydroxyl component of it.

 

[Jayjay1976]

Just keep going to the store for 2 gallons at a time. Hit different stores or bring someone with you so they can buy 2 gallons as well.

Our local grocery store is limiting people to 1 bread item. That means if my wife gets her whole grain toast I can't buy any brat rolls or hamburger buns. So we checked out separately. Then we came back from the car and went to a different checkout. We're not hoarding but 1 item per family is a little too tight. We saw a family of four check out separately with 4 packages of toilet paper. They're either hoarding or planning a chili cookoff. For our 1 paper product we chose a box of kleenex.

 

[madscientist451]

I am not real interested in running out to buy a new water system. I am trying to get by with what I have while this virus is going around.

I think you'll be fine just using the tap water. Relax, have a home brew, do the best you can with what you have.

 

[madscientist451]

We saw a family of four check out separately with 4 packages of toilet paper. They're either hoarding or planning a chili cookoff. For our 1 paper product we chose a box of kleenex.

Sorry, this is: but I'm putting it in anyway.
Not a single roll of toilet paper or paper towels in any stores around here. A co-worker said he saw a fistfight at Walmart where a shopper tried to check out with two rolls and they were only supposed to buy one at a time. Supposedly they were the last two rolls in the store.
Hopefully, the insanity will end soon before it gets worse.

 

[mongoose33]

I brewed tasty beers for 13 years without doing anything to my water. Go ahead and brew. The water chemistry makes it better, but not that much, IMO.

We always have to be careful projecting our own circumstances onto others' situations.

Some places have great water for brewing most styles; there's a reason Asheville NC attracted so many breweries.

Other places, not so much.

I live about 22 miles northeast of Dubuque, IA. They're noted for having great water for brewing. Me? We draw our water from 1100 feet down, and it's similar to the OP's. Not good for brewing anything except Stouts, which I don't care for as a style all that much.

Just depends on what you have.

 

[nyer]

Publix has distilled water back in stock, I think I'm going to grab 2 gallons at a time until I can get what I need. I want to do the neipa and want my water correct, all those hops are too expensive to make a half assed attempt at it.

 

[NitrogenWidget]

Your water isn't that bad, the Na is a touch high for lighter styles, but really there are going to be so many other process variables that will impact the flavor more so than the sodium. Sulfate as S04 would be around 95 ppm. Honestly, for most IPA's, hazy or otherwise, acidify with some lactic and a touch of CaS04 or CaCl2 to get the Ca up and you're in a good position.

make a pretzel wheat.

 

[cire]

Your water isn't that bad, the Na is a touch high for lighter styles, but really there are going to be so many other process variables that will impact the flavor more so than the sodium. Sulfate as S04 would be around 95 ppm. Honestly, for most IPA's, hazy or otherwise, acidify with some lactic and a touch of CaS04 or CaCl2 to get the Ca up and you're in a good position.

That from bierhaus15 is the simplest way to make suitable liquor for a decent beer in the existing circumstances. Yes the sodium is a bit high, but the alkalinity isn't bad and would need only a little acid to resolve. The get some calcium in and you will be good to go and do justice to your hops.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Your sulfate is starting out at 96 ppm (3 x the reported 32 ppm, which is for only the 'S' fraction of the 'SO4'), and will be about 100 ppm or a smidge more after you use 1/4 of a Campden tablet to remove chlorine and chloramines from your tap water.

 

[couchsending]

Like has already been said your water is pretty damn good for making hoppy beer especially. Na is a touch high but not even bad at all. Your beers will end up a little more “full” on the palate but that’s about it. Ideally a little more Ca would be nice I’d add it in the form of gypsum if you were to add.

Plug it into a water spreadsheet and find out how much acid you need to hit target pH values and roll.

 

[coonmanx]

I ordered buttwipe off of Ebay. LOL. A lot easier than driving around town looking for it. They did have plenty of water at the King Soopers. Apparently I missed the sign that said limit of 3 because I bought 4 gallons and nobody said a thing. I also use some tap water in my batches and now have a very simple Culligan filter that goes right on the faucet and makes the water taste great.

 

[Buckeye_Hydro]

Many aquarium stores sell RO water by the gallon so that may be worth investigating.

Some do, you are correct. If you're going to go this route, make sure you take a TDS meter with you and test their RO water before you buy it. Also make sure it is RO water rather than DI water.

Russ